Need advice for choosing rotation site

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DOctor To Be

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I am in the process of choosing where I will do my 3rd year rotations (4th year is all electives so I will be doing mostly audition rotations) and I have it narrowed down to two sites. I am in the first class of a new school and don't have any upperclassmen to ask for help so any input from current 3rd or 4th years and beyond would be greatly appreciated.

Site A: level 3 trauma center with an AOA internal medicine residency, has had students rotate on a regular basis

Site B: level 2 trauma center, no residents, never had students rotate here.

Note: I am completely open minded when it comes to specialties, and I am hoping to use my experiences during 3rd year to help me choose a specialty
 
Since you're most likely starting with cores, completely irrevalent to being a Level 2/3 trauma. Honestly, as long as both are ACGME accredited, it wont matter. Make sure the place is compatible with you (ex. where its located etc.), otherwise in the end you're looking for 2 things 1) experience 2) LOR (the shelf exam is upto you on how you prep).

If I were you, I'd probably not chose the one with the AOA IM residency because you'll be with a bunch of smart arse know-it-all's who you might have a hard time getting along with, essentially also affecting your learning experience.
 
If I were you, I'd probably not chose the one with the AOA IM residency because you'll be with a bunch of smart arse know-it-all's who you might have a hard time getting along with, essentially also affecting your learning experience.

Huh?

AOA in this instance means American Osteopathic Association. Not Alpha Omega Alpha.
 
I'm assuming you're at a DO school? If that's the case, I'd choose the AOA IM residency because you'll get some teaching out of it. I found that during my IM rotation, I spent a lot of time with residents taking care of patients and brainstorming new ideas. IMO I'd stick with the first option that's been tried and true.

You listed the trauma levels, I'm wondering if that matters to you?
 
Yes I'm at a DO school, the reason I mentioned trauma level is because I figured it was the quickest way to give info on how large of a hospital each site is. I'm not necessarily aspiring to be a trauma surgeon or anything I just want to be exposed to as much as possible, so that when I rotate through a large medical center on an audition rotation during 4th year I'm not completely unprepared when that first major trauma rolls through the door. I am leaning towards site A because it is a little better geographically for me, the only thing is that it is a level 3 trauma center located only 40 miles from a level 2 and only 95 miles from a level 1 center. So my concern is that I may never get any exposure to a true trauma situation because anything major is going to get sent down the road. So with no upperclassmen at my school (I'm in the first class) I ask you guys, is this a legit concern or am I making too much of the trauma designation? thanks ahead of time for any input/advice!
 
These both sound pretty bad in terms of experience, but I'd choose site A so you know how to work in the academic system of student/resident/attending.
 
I think you are making too much of trauma designations. As I understand it that is primarily related to the type of surgical specialties that a hospital has available in house or on call etc.

If you are interested you can pick up those specialties later at away rotations I woudl imagine. However, what will probably help you the most as a 4th year auditioning for a rotation is having a really strong understanding of what is expected of interns and residents, especially interns as that is basically what you want to act like on your audition rotation. Personally I would believe you would only get that true experience from a place with a residency program and that is experienced in teaching medical students and integrating them into clinical care. YMMV.
 
I think you are making too much of trauma designations. As I understand it that is primarily related to the type of surgical specialties that a hospital has available in house or on call etc.

Pretty much.

If you are interested you can pick up those specialties later at away rotations I woudl imagine. However, what will probably help you the most as a 4th year auditioning for a rotation is having a really strong understanding of what is expected of interns and residents, especially interns as that is basically what you want to act like on your audition rotation. Personally I would believe you would only get that true experience from a place with a residency program and that is experienced in teaching medical students and integrating them into clinical care. YMMV.

Agreed.
 
I would also ditto site A. I think you need to experience such and such training program to figure out what you want/don't want. Having a site that has experience dealing with newbs on the wards may also enhance your learning. They may be slightly more inclined to teaching than a site that has never seen a non-fully licensed doc before. Trauma is not necessary to learn how to manage trauma. You will see enough of it at your away rotation sites in the future. Even at a level 2/3 you will not see any acute trauma's that usually go through the door at a level 1. Even at a level 1, you may go a whole month in the ED and not see more than a handful of MVA's, gunshot/stab, MI, CVA, etc depending on your location.
 
Is there anyone who supports the argument for site B: no residents around=more procedures for medical student?
 
Is there anyone who supports the argument for site B: no residents around=more procedures for medical student?
Site B may or may not provide more procedures than Site A--there's really no way to know a priori. Undoubtedly, however, Site A will be better from the standpoint of teaching, letters of recommendation, learning how to function in an academic hospital, etc. I agree with the others that Trauma center designation should play no role in this decision whatsoever.


As an aside, this thread should be required reading for pre-meds to read--there really are negatives to attending brand-new schools and applicants need to perform their due diligence in researching the clinical experience these schools provide.
 
Is there anyone who supports the argument for site B: no residents around=more procedures for medical student?

B would be better if they have had students rotate there before and you knew how the attendings were in terms of teaching and grading. It's too risky because what if the attendings don't like teaching and don't let you do anything?
 
Is there anyone who supports the argument for site B: no residents around=more procedures for medical student?

While this is a common myth, the truth is that you may not get to perform more procedures than at a site with residents, often because the hospitals without residents have lower case volume. My understanding of trauma level classifications is that trauma Level II just means that they have a wider range of surgical specialists who are on-call (not in-house, like a Level I - someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, haha).

Another argument against site B is that "they've never had students there," which should be a giant red flag. Hearing from some of my classmates that have done rotations at sites where students have never rotated there, it sounds like a **** show, especially if it's your first rotation and no one tells you what responsibilities you have or what you should be doing. And sometimes, the nurses/scrub techs can be downright hostile to new students because they don't know what they're doing (but how should the students know if it's their first rotation??).

The teaching is very attending/preceptor dependent, so if you don't get an attending who likes to teach, the rotation turns out to be a colossal waste of time (aka you're screwed for other rotations where you'll be asked to demonstrate your knowledge). Example that I'd heard about from a classmate: he went through 2 months of Internal Medicine at a hospital without residents, without doing a SINGLE H&P. (wtf?!) He didn't learn how to do an H&P until his next rotation, Surgery. So while you can get lucky and get an awesome attending who loves to teach, it won't be the same as working with the residents, attending rounds, presenting patients, etc.

My vote: go with Site A and count your lucky stars that your school even has hospitals with residents and that has had students rotate there before.

As an aside, this thread should be required reading for pre-meds to read--there really are negatives to attending brand-new schools and applicants need to perform their due diligence in researching the clinical experience these schools provide.

^^ a thousand times, THIS. Please please please do not choose a school based on the pre-clinical education, which will most likely be similar everywhere but can be remedied through hard work and putting in the time yourself. The only way to remedy ****ty clinicals is to do electives at places with teaching programs, but then you're doing double the work when you really should have learned during the actual core rotation.

Sorry for the rant.. haha
 
:beat:<---- what I'm about to do

go with the place with residents. It gets touted a lot that places without residents let you do more, but i think thats only ever true in isolated situations and impossible to predict beforehand.

Additionally having the residency program there in house (you can have residents without a program if the hospital accepts residents from other programs) is always a positive if you decide to go IM you'll have a place that knows your personally.

on a side note, i laughed when you said you had a level II 45 miles away and a level I 95 miles away. Over here in NY 95 miles is a 2.5 hour drive. In 2.5 hours you can drive through the entire state of NJ lengthwise or drive from NYC to Philadelphia and 1/3 of the way back to NYC. IDK what its like outside of the east coast, but 95 miles (and even 45) is a huge distance. There are probably 6 level I trauma centers within 7 miles of my hospital.
 
Thanks everybody for the input, it has been very helpful and I have made my decision. I will be choosing site A, after all the comments this has been a no brainer!
 
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