NEED ADVICE from fellow Canadians applying for residency in U.S.

[1astmanstanding]

Hi. I'm currently a 4th year DO student applying for residency for next year in the U.S. and was wondering if someone could shed some light on the visa process?!? I've been on the student visa in college as well as med school and now that i'm applying for residency i'm beeing told that i need either a J or H visa, and that Canada doesn't offer J visas. I've applied through ERAS and recently received an email from a program saying that even though i'm a good candidate they don't sponsor visas?!?! -- i wouldn't have applied for their program if i would've known this.

Anyway, is there a list of hospitals that accepts Canadians in their program? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

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[cholecalciferol]

You need to get clued in fast because time can run out on you and you will be sitting on you butt doing nothing for a year while you sort out the visa issue.

As a Canuck studying in the US you are on the F-1 visa, good until graduation. To continue your training you have to extend the visa because you will be getting paid for internship/residency and F-1 does not allow you to work. Go to your the INS web site, download the proper forms and have your school fill it out ASAP.

J1 are for foreign medical grads who need residency training for licensing. You have to leave the country for 2 years after training. The H-1 does not have this requirement. Since you are already on an F-1 you, don't need to go this route.

All hospitals take DOs except for PDs who are dinosaurs and still discriminate against DOs. Do your own research and find out. Other people's list are unreliable.

Hi. I'm currently a 4th year DO student applying for residency for next year in the U.S. and was wondering if someone could shed some light on the visa process?!? I've been on the student visa in college as well as med school and now that i'm applying for residency i'm beeing told that i need either a J or H visa, and that Canada doesn't offer J visas. I've applied through ERAS and recently received an email from a program saying that even though i'm a good candidate they don't sponsor visas?!?! -- i wouldn't have applied for their program if i would've known this.

Anyway, is there a list of hospitals that accepts Canadians in their program? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

 

[docbill]

Which DO school are you at.

I though if you are a Canadian studying in US you don't have much trouble with the the MATCH. Are you considered as IMG or Canadian, or US trained?

Don't get a J-1 (like previous post said). Please update this link on the proper proceedures. I am going to US in the coming year to do a DO degree and I hope it is not going to be a big struggle.

 

[moo]

it won't be a big struggle, but you need to do your homework ahead of time. You can extend your F1 to OPT status but as of this year, you will need to attend some workshops or something before you are eligible for this (hence you will not waste a year like your fellow Canadians who went to Ireland, the caribs, Australie and want a residency in the US... interestingly Canadians from Canadian schools will run into the same problem and most likely will have to sit out a year unless they can make do with the J1). Your school should have more info on this. A lot of programs don't sponsor H1bs but there are a lot that do. I doubt there is an all encompassing list out there, but what I would do is I would get on the phone and call the programs you're interested in and inquire about this.

 

[1astmanstanding]

Thanks for all the replies.....the issue with the visa is more of a problem than i would've thought. First of all when you apply through ERAS there are 3 options you can choose: Citizen, Perm. resident, and Foreign National (student visas fall under Foreign National). So...when residency directors look at your application and see you as a foreign national they will consider you no better or worse than an IMG. Actually you might be considered worse than an IMG (even though you graduated from an American DO school), because most IMGs who apply are Perm residents. From what I heard, most programs will LOOSE $$$ when they will take a MD/DO (American graduate or not) who is NEITHER a citizen or perm resident, because they will have to sponsor his/her visa.

The OPT time that F1s have doesn't really help at all...or at least i don't think it does. Most programs probably don't even know that F1s have an extra 1 year OPT time after graduation. Cholecalciferal and Moo, i still don't understand how the OPT time will help me?!? Any program will be reluctant to offer me an interview or even better .. to rank me high when they'll see that i have an F1.

I'm pretty stressed out...i haven't received any more interviews and i don't know what my options will be in case i don't match anywhere. I have no future as a DO in Canada (unless i go into family practice--hell no...i'd rather do research for a year). If anyone has more info/advice PLEASE post or send me a 'private message'!!!!

 

[Kathleen914]

Check out this link:

http://www.usmile.us/resstep.htm#h1btable

 

[1astmanstanding]

According to your link...

"If you are Canadian you have to keep in mind that you face a pretty good chance of ending up with nothing but your med school debts, so you really may want to consider taking any offer at all while the going is good"

i guess i'm screwed

 

[docbill]

According to your link...

"If you are Canadian you have to keep in mind that you face a pretty good chance of ending up with nothing but your med school debts, so you really may want to consider taking any offer at all while the going is good"

i guess i'm screwed

That sounds very negative.

I don't get it.. how is it different for MDs that do their training/residency in the US (compared to DOs)?

Why don't you do a AOA residency?

I don't know exactly how it works as of yet.. but I would call and ask official people at your school and even at other schools. See what they have to say.

Otherwise try to get a FP residency or 2nd round residency in Canada.

Is this problem mainly due to your college's rotations or what... is it AZCOM you go to?

I can't imagine it would be that hard. Especially since you are studying in the US. IMGs get possitions. I guess it also depends on competition.

 

[cholecalciferol]

You are not screwed! Your only problem is lack of information. What you must do is call up the programs you are interested in applying and ask to talk to the program director. Politely ask about the visa issue, will they accept you with a F1-extension? It is an extra step for the program to go through and the more competitive programs don't need to do so because they have oodles of apps. But even then, don't let that discourage you. If you are a good applicant, programs will be interested in you, so call, ask for pertinent info and apply accordingly. It is still not too late.

Your other option is to apply to AOA internship. I would recommend doing it at a dually accredited AOA/ACGME program. That way if you decide to go back to Canada you can say your internship is ACGME accredited. Ontario does not yet recognize AOA internship (they are in the process of doing so but don't hold your breath). Try to pick programs at bigger hospital that have many residencies. That way, you can get a tracked program, or if not, get to know the PD during your first year and maybe slide into a slot someone vacates. People change their mind and slots open up all the time.

Don't sweat about the visa issues. By the way, alot of the hospital that accepts DO's have IMG on staff, from my experience. Hospitals affliated with your school may be a good place to start asking about visa requirements. What school are you graduating from?

Regards

According to your link...

"If you are Canadian you have to keep in mind that you face a pretty good chance of ending up with nothing but your med school debts, so you really may want to consider taking any offer at all while the going is good"

i guess i'm screwed

 

[docbill]

cholecal, thanks for the info. Where are you studying or doing residency?
Did you do a DO degree or an MD? School?

So you don't have any hesitations for Canadians going south to do a DO degree?

 

[cholecalciferol]

I am doing my AOA internship (paying my dues to the AOA and ridding myself of the problems with the five states. You will learn about it when you get to UNECOM.) I got the DO degree from LECOM. I used to live in Toronto, only 4 hours from Erie.

The DO degree is as valuable as the MD degree. If you work at it you will get to where to want to be. I will be doing radiology at an ACGME program next year. So competitive programs are not beyond your reach.
Don't hestitate to go the DO route if medicine is what you want. Things will change in the future and you will be able to go back and practice in Canada. There are always backdoors if you encounter barriers. Just know that you may have to struggle a bit to get back to Canada but it's doable.

By the way, I worked with 2 UNECOM grad and they have been excellent so you should be getting a good education there.

Best of luck.

cholecal, thanks for the info. Where are you studying or doing residency?
Did you do a DO degree or an MD? School?

So you don't have any hesitations for Canadians going south to do a DO degree?

 

[docbill]

That sounds positive. Thanks for all the great info.

I will definitely go to UNECOM. I canceled most of my other interviews... except waiting for LECOM and PCOM. By far UNECOM is my first choice. But LECOM is close and cheapest. (if you have additional info advice, maybe PM me).

I was told by Canadian DOs, presidents of Canada and Ontario Ost. Ass. that they are fighting to change the limitations.. and that by the time I get finished the changes will be completed. Also, I will have a PhD degree so it will make it easier to get a University Hospital appointment.

BTW... When you do one year AOA internship (is it one extra year of rotations... or say General Pract. PGY1). Do you apply for PGY2 in Radiology? And than do you have to do 4 or 5 years of Rad? Can one go into PGY2 IM after AOA internship? I guess more importantly... if I am not interested in those 5 states, Florida being one of them, do I have to do an AOA intenship?

Thanks for info.
BA

I am doing my AOA internship (paying my dues to the AOA and ridding myself of the problems with the five states. You will learn about it when you get to UNECOM.) I got the DO degree from LECOM. I used to live in Toronto, only 4 hours from Erie.

The DO degree is as valuable as the MD degree. If you work at it you will get to where to want to be. I will be doing radiology at an ACGME program next year. So competitive programs are not beyond your reach.
Don't hestitate to go the DO route if medicine is what you want. Things will change in the future and you will be able to go back and practice in Canada. There are always backdoors if you encounter barriers. Just know that you may have to struggle a bit to get back to Canada but it's doable.

By the way, I worked with 2 UNECOM grad and they have been excellent so you should be getting a good education there.

Best of luck.

 

[OzDDS]

That sounds positive. Thanks for all the great info.

I will definitely go to UNECOM. I canceled most of my other interviews... except waiting for LECOM and PCOM. By far UNECOM is my first choice. But LECOM is close and cheapest. (if you have additional info advice, maybe PM me).

I was told by Canadian DOs, presidents of Canada and Ontario Ost. Ass. that they are fighting to change the limitations.. and that by the time I get finished the changes will be completed. Also, I will have a PhD degree so it will make it easier to get a University Hospital appointment.

BTW... When you do one year AOA internship (is it one extra year of rotations... or say General Pract. PGY1). Do you apply for PGY2 in Radiology? And than do you have to do 4 or 5 years of Rad? Can one go into PGY2 IM after AOA internship? I guess more importantly... if I am not interested in those 5 states, Florida being one of them, do I have to do an AOA intenship?

Thanks for info.
BA

I didn't think that DO was equivalent to MD anywhere but the US. Is Canada starting to accept DOs to practice in Canada now? That's cool.. I always that this was one of the major disadvantages to do going the DO route was that it was fine if you wanted to only practice in the US, but if you were interested in doing any residency training or fellowships or practice outside of the US that you were basically screwed. I am planning on visiting Australia and had to have an immunization form signed and on the form it actually said, "Must be signed by MD not DO"! Have you heard of any other countries that accept DOs into their medical specialty training programs? Like can a DO from the US go to England or Australia to specialize and/or practice? Just curious?

 

[docbill]

DOs have been working in Canada for about 20 years. There are a handful of US trained DO pioneers across the country. They had a very difficult time getting licensed but finally did. Due to the shortage and doctors and the advancement of DO training to MD medical school levels the Can.Med.Ass. decided to accept DOs as equal. As of 2003 CME and Ontario regonized DOs equal to MD and can do limited residency in Canada and do medicare billing etc...

There are other countries that regonize US trained DOs equal to MDs do a search on SDN or AOA or Google and you will get the list.

In the UK and AUS, usually DOs have a Diploma of Osteopathy, manipulation training(OMM) only.

If it is true that Australia doesn't accept US trained DOs, that is fine, they have problems of their own.. They recruite Asian trained physicians to work in rural areas, which don't even meet the clinical training requirements.. and their patients suffer cause of it.

 

[OzDDS]

As of 2003 CME and Ontario regonized DOs equal to MD and can do limited residency in Canada and do medicare billing etc...

There are other countries that regonize US trained DOs equal to MDs do a search on SDN or AOA or Google and you will get the list.

In the UK and AUS, usually DOs have a Diploma of Osteopathy, manipulation training(OMM) only.

If it is true that Australia doesn't accept US trained DOs, that is fine, they have problems of their own.. They recruite Asian trained physicians to work in rural areas, which don't even meet the clinical training requirements.. and their patients suffer cause of it.

Recruite Asian trained physicians? I think they do get a lot of FMGs from asia, but that is because of the geographical location of Australia.

Doesn't the US do the same thing? trading a J1 visa for FMGs to take up spots in rural America? how woudl that be any different? I think most of those spots are taken up by asian and indian doctors too.

 

[docbill]

MY REFERENCE WAS TOWARDS THEM NOT ECCEPTING DOs.
Serving rural area's is one of the reasons why they allow DOs

I retract all the info I said about AUSTRALIA and ASIAN TRAINED DOCTORS.
I should of known how this can lead to misunderstanding.

I do add however that it's their loss. US/Canadian trained doctors are well educated and trained. (PLEASE DON'T ANSWER WITH SOMETHING LIKE... NOT ALL)

 

[OzDDS]

MY REFERENCE WAS TOWARDS THEM NOT ECCEPTING DOs.
Serving rural area's is one of the reasons why they allow DOs

I retract all the info I said about AUSTRALIA and ASIAN TRAINED DOCTORS.
I should of known how this can lead to misunderstanding.

I do add however that it's their loss. US/Canadian trained doctors are well educated and trained. (PLEASE DON'T ANSWER WITH SOMETHING LIKE... NOT ALL)

No.. very true.

 

[moo]

Here at Northwestern I've worked with a lot of DOs and they've been great. Very nice, and smart. I wish Canada would get off their high horse and just accept DOs as equals.

 

[docbill]

Moo.. or anyone else...
How do you fund your studies in the states... I know there is Canhelp.. but are there any better options. Are you getting riped off with loans or is it fair.

My tuition will be 33k and climbing.. every year... Expenses, Medical, Books etc... should be about 5000K + Living allowence about 12,000 = 50k AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Thanks
BA

 

[moo]

You're lucky. You're going down to the US where the exchange rate is favorable for us. 80 cents to the dollar, man I wish I had that when I started... it was 62 cents to the dollar when I was a first year.

Financing my education has been tough. Tuition at Feinberg this year is like 35k for tuition alone. My parents have a line of credit at TD or something like that (don't know much about finances). It'll be tough but doable.

 

[docbill]

your right...but that all depends on how high or low the dollar will go. Hopefuly it keeps climbing.