Need advice on stats...

[VIPER SRT-10]

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This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

 

[PDizzle]

If you've taken the DAT three times and havn't done better then a 16 then maybe you need to re-examine your apptitude for dentisty. Remember that once you get in, you're gonna be in hardcore science classes all day long!

Did you just not study? Are you not a very good test taker?

To be honest, very few schools will even look past that 16 DAT, especially becuase you took it three times.

You might look into becoming a dental hygeinist or an assistant maybe.

 

[geckel]

This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

What schools and when did the schools recieve your complete application? I am very sorry to tell you this but I don't think that you stand a chance for this cycle. Your DAT (especially because it is your 3rd attempt) needs to be considerably higher. Also.....what do you mean you volunteer with dentists? That belongs under the catagory of shadowing and not volunteer activity. Adcoms expect your volunteer work to make a positive difference in the areas where a community is lacking (you should be able to say that you were genuinely needed rather then a conveinence).

I see a final fourth time for the DAT in your future.......your GPA's and experience are fine. Can you honestly say that you studied that hard for the DAT? Did you use any prep material (ie. kaplan, topscore, ect...)? If the Chem's are the only section giving you trouble then I suggest using kaplan......since this would be your 4th retake then might I recommend the online class. It worked for me (1st DAT 17/16/17......2nd DAT 21/21/23). But you should know that if you don't approach studying for the DAT with a focus on conceptual learning then you might as well save your money. The test doesn't ask for definitions.....it wants to test for mastery. If you know the laws and concepts then you will score highly. Don't lose hope, just clear three months of your schedule and dedicate yourself to the DAT. Next cycle will be no problem for you 👍

 

[Dutchboy]

You might look into becoming a dental hygeinist or an assistant maybe.

This is good advise if you believe that you have no shot to raise that DAT score. Dental hygeinists start at $30+ an hour right out of school. A score of 16 on one section of the DAT is OK but a 16 AA will just not cut it. Good Luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

[dentalguy]

If you've taken the DAT three times and havn't done better then a 16 then maybe you need to re-examine your apptitude for dentisty. Remember that once you get in, you're gonna be in hardcore science classes all day long!

Did you just not study? Are you not a very good test taker?

To be honest, very few schools will even look past that 16 DAT, especially becuase you took it three times.

You might look into becoming a dental hygeinist or an assistant maybe.

I took the DAT four times......and don't let anyone tell you to go a different route.....i can guarantee ill make a better dentist than many people with 20+ on their DATS.....keep up your hard work and don't give up.....do whatever you can to get that DAT to at least a 17 or 18....then I think you'll be fine because they will see your persistance....good luck!!

 

[luvabully]

This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

Viper,
Don't get down about the DAT. Take geckel's advice and devote a bunch of time to the fourth try and make sure you really understand what's going wrong with the chemistry stuff. If it's not working out the gen chem problems fast enough (timing) or it's conceptual or anxiety or whatever. Obviously your grades indicate you have an "aptitude" for science and will do just fine in dentistry. The DAT really indicates your ability to take a timed, standardized test more than what you really know. Some people are not as good at it.

BTW I don't a know any dentists who could sit down now and get a 20 AA on the DAT. You won't remember 90% of that crap when you get out of school and actually practice dentistry. It's necessary obviously but the DAT has little or nothing to do with what kind of dentist you'll be - unfortunately, it DOES determine whether you get into dental school! So good luck on the 4th time around!

Oh, and people don't become hygienists because they couldn't get into d-school, PDizzle, just so you know. I guess you believe those MDs that say dentists are med-school rejects too? 😉

 

[dentalguy]

Viper,
Don't get down about the DAT. Take geckel's advice and devote a bunch of time to the fourth try and make sure you really understand what's going wrong with the chemistry stuff. If it's not working out the gen chem problems fast enough (timing) or it's conceptual or anxiety or whatever. Obviously your grades indicate you have an "aptitude" for science and will do just fine in dentistry. The DAT really indicates your ability to take a timed, standardized test more than what you really know. Some people are not as good at it.

BTW I don't a know any dentists who could sit down now and get a 20 AA on the DAT. You won't remember 90% of that crap when you get out of school and actually practice dentistry. It's necessary obviously but the DAT has little or nothing to do with what kind of dentist you'll be - unfortunately, it DOES determine whether you get into dental school! So good luck on the 4th time around!

Oh, and people don't become hygienists because they couldn't get into d-school, PDizzle, just so you know. I guess you believe those MDs that say dentists are med-school rejects too? 😉

well put, glad to see some people on here are encouraging

 

[Dutchboy]

Viper,
Don't get down about the DAT. Take geckel's advice and devote a bunch of time to the fourth try and make sure you really understand what's going wrong with the chemistry stuff. If it's not working out the gen chem problems fast enough (timing) or it's conceptual or anxiety or whatever. Obviously your grades indicate you have an "aptitude" for science and will do just fine in dentistry. The DAT really indicates your ability to take a timed, standardized test more than what you really know. Some people are not as good at it.

BTW I don't a know any dentists who could sit down now and get a 20 AA on the DAT. You won't remember 90% of that crap when you get out of school and actually practice dentistry. It's necessary obviously but the DAT has little or nothing to do with what kind of dentist you'll be - unfortunately, it DOES determine whether you get into dental school! So good luck on the 4th time around!

Oh, and people don't become hygienists because they couldn't get into d-school, PDizzle, just so you know. I guess you believe those MDs that say dentists are med-school rejects too? 😉

It's true that by looking at your grades that you should be able to tackle the DAT. I agree with everything else in this post except 1) You won't remember at least 95% of that crap instead of the mentioned 90%, and 2) Saying that going into hygiene is like switching from MD to dental is an unfair comparison. It's within the same field and shares many simularities.

 

[PDizzle]

First off, the OP said it was his final attempt, meaning he won't take it again. Either he doesn't want to or believes he can not score any higher.

With that score it will be very dificult to get into D-School. I am not saying he won't be a good dentist but it's the journey that is in question. Some people have the apptitude for D-School and some do not. Sometimes sheer desire to be a dentist is not enough. I'm not saying this is the case for Viper (I know nothing about him) but there are people who just can't handle it, and that's just a sad fact of life. GPA's and DAT are used to determine this.

I mean, I'd love to play deffensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders but I know that I just can't do it, regardless of desire or dedication.

The Flunk out MD to Dentist thing is a horrible analogy. A dental hygeinist has much more in common with a dentist then a MD. Plus, I said to consider it, not run out and do it.

 

[luvabully]

First off, the OP said it was his final attempt, meaning he won't take it again. Either he doesn't want to or believes he can not score any higher.

With that score it will be very dificult to get into D-School. I am not saying he won't be a good dentist but it's the journey that is in question. Some people have the apptitude for D-School and some do not. Sometimes sheer desire to be a dentist is not enough. I'm not saying this is the case for Viper (I know nothing about him) but there are people who just can't handle it, and that's just a sad fact of life. GPA's and DAT are used to determine this.

I mean, I'd love to play deffensive tackle for the Oakland Raiders but I know that I just can't do it, regardless of desire or dedication.

The Flunk out MD to Dentist thing is a horrible analogy. A dental hygeinist has much more in common with a dentist then a MD. Plus, I said to consider it, not run out and do it.

It really doesn't matter, but my analogy was meant to imply that one position was not inferior to another or requiring a "smarter" person regardless of the commonality of the fields. Point well taken. 🙂

 

[VIPER SRT-10]

I studied for the chem and ochem for 2 months straight every weekend. I guess I just don't get along with the chems. The rest of my test was fine. My other 4 scores are really good but the chems keep screwing my up. In the PAT my 20 was 97.8 percentile so I now I'm doing something right. Anyway I might do I postbach and reapply to a local school here in Ca.

 

[howui3]

I studied for the chem and ochem for 2 months straight every weekend. I guess I just don't get along with the chems. The rest of my test was fine. My other 4 scores are really good but the chems keep screwing my up. In the PAT my 20 was 97.8 percentile so I now I'm doing something right. Anyway I might do I postbach and reapply to a local school here in Ca.

I suggest re-evaluating the way you study for the science sections. If you have taken it several times with the same results and you study each time, then you need to change the way you are learnig the material.

If you did not take an organized class like Kaplan, sign up for one. If you did then try on your own. I don't think studying on the weekends is going to be enough. Take a month or two off, no work, no play, no fun - JUST DAT. Do it every day and build up to a point where you are going for 8 hours and your brain is not turning into jello. Build your brain stamina.

You have a good gpa, so put ALL your effort into the DAT, spend the extra money and get a private tutor for the chem, in the end it will be worth every penny you spend.

Good luck!

 

[Lefty7]

howui3 is right. congrats on your PAT, but it really doesn't hold weight compared to the academic sections. I highly recommend topscore as a suppliment to your curriculum. It will not do much for your confidence, but is much more challenging than the real DAT and will help you breeze through it with ease. I scored four points higher on the real DAT than on Topscore and had 30 min leftover after my science section to recheck my all my answers. I was always pushing the wire on Topscore. Good luck to you.

 

[thewince7]

The key to ochem is to look at the big picture. If you try just memorizing stuff it wont work. You have to learn the general concepts and the rest will just fall into place. I would work on that.

 

[fightingspirit]

This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

ok viper, i do not know you so i will post about what i'd do if i were you!

since i have taken the DAT 3 times, applied twice already, volunteered, and shadowed, i know that dentistry is what i wanna do. i have invested a lot of time and money to get into dental school. but the DAT is standing in my way and taking the DAT for the fourth time would be risky. so what do i do?

well, how much would i be willing to give up just to become a dentist? would i be willing to take a non-glamorous or a not-so-desirable path towards that goal? if the answer is "yes", then here's what i must do:

apply to howard and meharry!!!!!

viper, if you really wanna be a dentist, then you must consider these schools. they are bona fide dental schools. there's nothing wrong with them. the only reason why they have lower stats is because black students dont do as well as non-blacks in college (for understandeable reasons) and because non-blacks do not have the desire to be in a predominantly black setting. even large schools like NYU wont consider you cus NYU mostly takes 16AA only when it belongs to a minority student. your stats could get you into these two schools , especially if you're not a minority because these schools are looking for more diversity. you would get the same education and then you'd take the boards and do your thing. dont let your ego stand in the way of realizing your dreams and apply to howard. do not waste more time!

WARNING: please consider how you might do on the boards. please investigate into the association between DAT and NBDE. if you feel confident (especially if your RC score is not bad) then go ahead and move to DC or Nshville. if not, then consider dental hygiene or dental assistant occupations.

good luck!

 

[geckel]

ok viper, i do not know you so i will post about what i'd do if i were you!

since i have taken the DAT 3 times, applied twice already, volunteered, and shadowed, i know that dentistry is what i wanna do. i have invested a lot of time and money to get into dental school. but the DAT is standing in my way and taking the DAT for the fourth time would be risky. so what do i do?

well, how much would i be willing to give up just to become a dentist? would i be willing to take a non-glamorous or a not-so-desirable path towards that goal? if the answer is "yes", then here's what i must do:

apply to howard and meharry!!!!!

viper, if you really wanna be a dentist, then you must consider these schools. they are bona fide dental schools. there's nothing wrong with them. the only reason why they have lower stats is because black students dont do as well as non-blacks in college (for understandeable reasons) and because non-blacks do not have the desire to be in a predominantly black setting. even large schools like NYU wont consider you cus NYU mostly takes 16AA only when it belongs to a minority student. your stats could get you into these two schools , especially if you're not a minority because these schools are looking for more diversity. you would get the same education and then you'd take the boards and do your thing. dont let your ego stand in the way of realizing your dreams and apply to howard. do not waste more time!

WARNING: please consider how you might do on the boards. please investigate into the association between DAT and NBDE. if you feel confident (especially if your RC score is not bad) then go ahead and move to DC or Nshville. if not, then consider dental hygiene or dental assistant occupations.

good luck!

What the hell are you talking about 😕 ? Look......I'm not an expert on minority schools but I do know that they are not a caucasian safety school. If you are a white boy and want to go to Meharry or Howard then you better have a true dedication for practicing in underserved areas (or at least convince them that you do). That is their mission and if the only volunteering viper has accomplished is hanging out with his dentist then he won't get in (even if he had good stats).

Honestly, think about that for a second..........if anyone could get in with a poor academic record then everyone would apply there. There class size would need to seat the other 3/4 of the applicant pool.

Viper, if you want to be accepted to dental school then you need to retake the DAT and knock it out of the park. If you consider only cramming on the weekends for 2 months preparing yourself (which is a total of 16 days of studying!) then you will never make it in dental school........and even if you did there is a good chance that you wouldn't graduate with study habits like that. The unanimous opinion of dental students is that dental school is far more difficult then undergrad.

Just so you know for future questions, there is no easy way to do this.

 

[fightingspirit]

What the hell are you talking about 😕 ? Look......I'm not an expert on minority schools but I do know that they are not a caucasian safety school. If you are a white boy and want to go to Meharry or Howard then you better have a true dedication for practicing in underserved areas (or at least convince them that you do). That is their mission and if the only volunteering viper has accomplished is hanging out with his dentist then he won't get in (even if he had good stats)..

calm down killer, i had no idea that i was stepping and crashing your toes. i did not say that these are safety schools for whites. what i will say though is that i would not be surprised if many whites would rather not go to d-school if it meant being in a minority school like meharry. therefore, these could be safety schools for those who are open to the idea of actually attending them. if he does not have volunteer experience in a poor community, then he can get that on his resume and application easily in the ext few months. dont make a fuss about nothin. and he can convince them too. once again, you're makin a big deal out of nothin. last but certainly not least, these schools would welcome applicants who'd broaden the diversity of their class. go ahead, recommend a 4th DAT; i , on the other hand do not recommend a 4th DAT.

and next time you with wish to diasgree with someone, do not start with "what the hell are you talking about" because it makes you look reactionary even if you are not.

 

[DUBS]

I suggest re-evaluating the way you study for the science sections. If you have taken it several times with the same results and you study each time, then you need to change the way you are learnig the material.

If you did not take an organized class like Kaplan, sign up for one. If you did then try on your own. I don't think studying on the weekends is going to be enough. Take a month or two off, no work, no play, no fun - JUST DAT. Do it every day and build up to a point where you are going for 8 hours and your brain is not turning into jello. Build your brain stamina.

You have a good gpa, so put ALL your effort into the DAT, spend the extra money and get a private tutor for the chem, in the end it will be worth every penny you spend.

Good luck!

I agree with Howui. When studying for this test, it should be your primary focus and you should be spending the majority of your time studying for it. Avoid taking it during the school year and try over the summer so you have more time. good luck

 

[geckel]

calm down killer, i had no idea that i was stepping and crashing your toes. i did not say that these are safety schools for whites. what i will say though is that i would not be surprised if many whites would rather not go to d-school if it meant being in a minority school like meharry. therefore, these could be safety schools for those who are open to the idea of actually attending them. if he does not have volunteer experience in a poor community, then he can get that on his resume and application easily in the ext few months. dont make a fuss about nothin. and he can convince them too. once again, you're makin a big deal out of nothin. last but certainly not least, these schools would welcome applicants who'd broaden the diversity of their class. go ahead, recommend a 4th DAT; i , on the other hand do not recommend a 4th DAT.

and next time you with wish to diasgree with someone, do not start with "what the hell are you talking about" because it makes you look reactionary even if you are not.

Fightingspirit, I write very similarly to the way I speak. I re-read what I posted and I do come off like i'm pissy . The phrase "what the hell" should be read in a light-hearted, sort of mocking tone. For the official record your post did not offend me (why would it? I have nothing to do with minority schools and don't really care about them) and my toes have never been stepped on by you. I just thought that your post was a joke and then I relized that you were being serious.........the idea that a MINORITY school would accept an underqualified WHITE BOY with open arms is funny but also dangerously misleading (in my personal opinion). I wrote the opposing view point against your post so that people that haven't researched this don't just take your word for it and apply to those schools instead of improving their application. I disagree with your idea but that doesn't mean anything.....as I see it we are just two dudes spending way too much time on the internet sharing their opinions to an anamous community. Viper (and anyone else that I will never meet) can do whatever they want and it won't affect me one bit. By the way, best of luck to you viper........let us know what you decide to do.

Just so everybody is clear.......I just wanted to add my two cents and I didn't mean to sound like an dingus. Seriously, say "what the hell are you talking about" with a grin and a sort of laugh in your voice......
......see, it's not so bad!

 

[Oralfixation]

Hey man, have you purchased a DAT studyguide like Kaplan? If you have not then that is your problem. Recent studies show that without prep courses such as Kaplan, the average DAT score is 16 for those who did study their notes. And everybody and his brother, even if they are too proud to admit it, has to take the course because of all the insecure people that take it for good measure. These studyguides alone are our beast, that we feed, that will eventually consume us. Your notes along with a DAT course or book or CD will bring your DAT scores up. If have used one of these study guides then you need to stop taking the DAT, let your old scores go off the record and take organic chem and a basic math course then get a DAT studyguide, study that, and take the DAT again with a fresh new score. I know it would be tough to wait until your old DAT scores drop but three scores with no change is going to be tough. While you are waiting pick some schools that take lower DAT scores and sell yourself to them. Some dental schools that people call safety schools are the best in the nation because they look for what a real dentist is, and that is not somebody with a 3.7 and dollar signs in their eyes. It is somebody who wants to enjoy a life of helping others and make a fair living doing so. Find out why they are low and explain it to them. To get into dental school you have to want to be a dentist to help others and if you are this person then make sure they know that. It only sounds tacky to people who are in dentistry for the money. Good luck get out there and show them what kind of dentist you will be. Do not let a punk tell you to give it up. If you want to be a dentist you can be one. Just practice more patience and learn from your mistakes. Cya

 

[syn_apse]

These studyguides alone are our beast, that we feed, that will eventually consume us.

you sound like a poorly translated fortune cookie

 

[geckel]

you sound like a poorly translated fortune cookie

👍

 

[STARCITY]

This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

Shadowing ONLY complements you when your already a competitive applicant. Shadowing does not pull you out of a black hole if you have bad grades.

Sorry, that would mean nothing to me. Any person off the street can call a dentist and go stand and watch.

Does that get you in dental school? NO! NO! NO!

 

[aaaphrodite]

I agree with the Kaplan study guide approach. When I first decided to do dentistry, I had not completed any pre-reqs (not a science major). I used my brother's MCAT Kaplan Bio/Chem/Ochem study guides to study and took the DAT for the hell of it (stupid). I scored 21bio/21chem/20ochem without even taking these classes because the study guides actually illustrated the concepts pretty well. Eventually I did take DAT for a second time after I finished the pre-reqs to improve these scores but my point is, it's possible to do OK with just the Kaplan guides without even taking the classes.

I've also looked at the "DAT" Kaplan guides. I still think the MCAT Kaplan guides are better written and seem to give more details although they are missing the general animal/plant classification & PAT stuff so you need to study that separately. And yes, you do need to make studying for the DAT a full-time thing. I spent 3 weeks doing nothing but studying for the DAT. Maybe you are not really understanding the material -- find someone who can explain this stuff to you. Good luck if you decide to take it for the 4th time!

 

[fightingspirit]

I just thought that your post was a joke and then I relized that you were being serious.........the idea that a MINORITY school would accept an underqualified WHITE BOY with open arms is funny but also dangerously misleading (in my personal opinion). I wrote the opposing view point against your post so that people that haven't researched this don't just take your word for it and apply to those schools instead of improving their application.

well, now you know my post was not a joke and it still is not even though you think my idea is "funny" and "dangerously misleading". well, thanks for saving SDNers from following my advice, as it is "dangerously misleading". besides, to non-minority schools, viper may be under-qualified. but to minority schools, whether he is black or white, he is qualified, so there goes your rebuttal. you talk about improving his application? i think you have forgotten that the OP has done almost everything except excell at the DAT, and that is what is halting him. it's all about the DAT now for the OP.

there is nothing wrong with applying to a school that accepts lower stats when your stats are low and when you've taken the DAT thrice. period!!! white or not, low stats=schools that accept low stats. that is if he really wanna be a dentist.

you and other SDNers can go ahead and advice this man to take the DAT a fourth time, which would be in my humble opinion (as opposed to your not-so-humble one) "dangerously misleading".....yeah and when he gets a 17, you can go ahead and recommend a 5th DAT so that he 'd go up to 18 maybe?.....

you're still makin a fuss about nothin....are you by any chance arguing just for the sake of arguing?

 

[Gargamel]

I have to agree with the majority of posters here and recommend you take the DAT again. If you have not already done so take the Kaplan course and pay for individual tutoring as it is a test that can be taught and you know your weak points. Do all of the homework assignments and practice tests and quizzes. Read all of the answers both correct and incorrect and learn why they are this way. There is a lot of information and you should plan on several months of uninterrupted studying 5 or 6 days a week (not just 2 days) 6 to 8 hrs a day. Standardized tests like the DAT are designed to allow schools to compare applicants without regard to undergraduate institution, major, and other confounding factors. As a result DAT scores are heavily weighed when looking at applicants. The bottom line is you must do well to get into dental school.

The purpose of shadowing is to reach an informed decision that dentistry is the right profession for you and to be able to speak with an interviewer in an intelligent manner (20-80 hrs should suffice). After that shadowing is just watching someone else work (and not getting paid for it). It’s useless so stop doing it.

Unless you fit into the category of an under-represented minority applying to schools whose purpose is to provide opportunities to under-represented minorities will probably only result in rejections. These schools are not interested in creating diversity in their classes they have a mission to create diversity in the professional ranks (the next level up).

Give this your best effort and no matter the outcome you will have no regrets.

 

[colt]

Do the Kaplan class and follow that up with a tutor and hrs of studying everyday.....

 

[Solid Snake DDS]

You dont want to look back 5 years from now and say, "I could have been a dentist". Dont let this exam prevent you from achieving your goals.
If you want it bad enough, it would happen.....even if it means applying the 4th or 5th time. Another year or two is not a big deal.
On a side note, you must be willing to work your ass off.

1st DAT (early summer)
16AA, 18 Sci, 17 PAT

2nd DAT (MID Fall--after my 90 days)
20AA, 22 SCI, 21 PAT.

If I can do it, so can you. I was history major in undergrad.....so my science background was pretty weak.....but that didnt stop me


Try getting a medium of a 17-18 AA and you will be fine (you gotta aced the interview) and compete with other 17-18 applying.....
To be on the safe side, you should aim for a min 19-20.
It is going to get more competitive each cycle.

 

[geckel]

well, now you know my post was not a joke and it still is not even though you think my idea is "funny" and "dangerously misleading". well, thanks for saving SDNers from following my advice, as it is "dangerously misleading". besides, to non-minority schools, viper may be under-qualified. but to minority schools, whether he is black or white, he is qualified, so there goes your rebuttal. you talk about improving his application? i think you have forgotten that the OP has done almost everything except excell at the DAT, and that is what is halting him. it's all about the DAT now for the OP.

there is nothing wrong with applying to a school that accepts lower stats when your stats are low and when you've taken the DAT thrice. period!!! white or not, low stats=schools that accept low stats. that is if he really wanna be a dentist.

you and other SDNers can go ahead and advice this man to take the DAT a fourth time, which would be in my humble opinion (as opposed to your not-so-humble one) "dangerously misleading".....yeah and when he gets a 17, you can go ahead and recommend a 5th DAT so that he 'd go up to 18 maybe?.....

you're still makin a fuss about nothin....are you by any chance arguing just for the sake of arguing?

Whose arguing? I thought that we were just sharing opinions. I have my opinion, which disagrees with yours, and you have your opinion that disagrees with everyone else who has posted (relax, just a joke!). Seriously, I barely care enough to type about this.......stop being so delicate.

Viper's a big boy and can make up his own mind about what he wants to do....but if he doesn't post something about all of this advice he's gotten then I'm losing interest in his story pretty quick.

 

[huskerslp]

This is my second time applying and I wanted to know what you guys think my chances are. I retook the dat for the third and final time and I can't seem to break the 16 point mark for the academic average.

My scores are 16 AA/ 16 SCI/ 20 PAT.

I had no problem with the PAT and scored in the 98 percentile this time but I can't seem to do well in OCHEM or CHEM. My GPA is 3.4 and the SCI is 3.2. What do you think? I also have over 200 hours of shadowing with two seperate dentist I volunteer with.

I think you should take a Kaplan class to improve your DATs scores. Also, you need to set aside more than 2wks of studying to do well on the DATs. Also, if you feel discouraged about your sci scores, just look at mine scores below and you'll see there is still a good chance of improving:

1/05 Today
AA: 17 AA: 19
PA: 13 PA: 17
QR: 18 QR: 19
RC: 19 RC: 20
BIO:16 BIO:19
GC: 19 GC: 17
OC: 15 OC: 22
TS: 17 TS: 19

I actually took the DATs three times. The first two times my sci scores were pretty much the same(<50%). I only studied for about a month each time for the 1st two exams. However, for the third time, I studied for almost 3 months and took a Kaplan class and I improved my scores significantly(esp. in organic and bio), which I thought I would never be able to do. The chem score is a bit misleading because I did not study for it as much as I should have. I improved from a 49 percentile to a 82 percentile. When I took the Kaplan class, not only did they teach me the major concepts for each subject, but they also changed my approach in studying for the DATs. Just my two cents...