NEED Advice Please!! Really thinking about CARIB!!!

[mrjbb]

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Hi everyone,

I am BARELY a Junior in college (mostly due to taking BS classes in Mechanical Engineering and if you want to get technical a Sophomore), I haven't taken most of my pre-reqs.

I have always looked at the possibility of going to the Carib.

I spoke with my PCP today, we had a LONG talk about medical schooling offshore. He's Dominican like me (From Dominican Republic), and he graduated from a medical school in Dominican Rep. and came hear to practice.

He told me that I should consider med school in DR and that it was great opportunity. He told me that since I AM Dominican I can get my Citizenship over there and apply for tuition and federal aid as a Dominican Republic Citizen.

I could gain licensure here after taking the USMLE Step I II III.

Since I can apply to med school over there as a Citizen, get Federal Aid, and have a lot of Family all over there, what do you guys think of this opportunity?

If I decide to go, it wouldn't be right away. I would wait a while in order to matriculate. I would do about one more year of undergrad here.

PLEASE I REALLY NEED SOME ADVICE!! I APPRECIATE IT!

I appreciate it..

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Depends on your situation. Since you're a junior in undergrad, id say finish your schooling and graduate with your degree. Fulfill the required pre-med courses in another school (i suggest a public university). Review for your MCATs if you really want to get into good carib or american med schools. Dont go into medicine if you're not sure about it, or simply because of quick passions. You cant just 'quit from it' like what you're doing from your engineering major. Its a lifetime investment; 4 years in school proper and residencies afterwards.

I have no idea about any dominican schools, but im sure you know more about that than I would. Follow your interest, but at the same time, be realistic as well.

Good luck on your endeavors.👍

 

[mrjbb]

Depends on your situation. Since you're a junior in undergrad, id say finish your schooling and graduate with your degree. Fulfill the required pre-med courses in another school (i suggest a public university). Review for your MCATs if you really want to get into good carib or american med schools. Dont go into medicine if you're not sure about it, or simply because of quick passions. You cant just 'quit from it' like what you're doing from your engineering major. Its a lifetime investment; 4 years in school proper and residencies afterwards.

I have no idea about any dominican schools, but im sure you know more about that than I would. Follow your interest, but at the same time, be realistic as well.

Good luck on your endeavors.👍

Thanks. I didn't just quit from Engineering recently... I thought A LONG LONG time ago that Mech. Eng was for me., but that's because I was JUST taking those classes to ONLY HELP me with my current occupation (Mechanical Eng. Draftsman/No degree only several classes taken) SO I DID NOT Want ENGINEERING as my career from the beginning. By the beginning I mean when I started at my job with this position at hand.

I understand medicine more than you think. I also work at a Hospital (ER), I come in contact with SEVERAL patients, and work side by side with Doctors most of the time, so in a way it's like Unofficially shadowing..lol

I am a Junior, but notice I said BARELY, meaning in reality if you want to get technical I'm only a Sophomore, and on top of that I CANNOT GET A DEGREE YET because I took a lot of mixed classes that weren't degree focused, like engineering courses to help me at work. It has only been now that I FINALLY changed my major to Micro Bio/BioChem ( I was a NON DEGREE seeking student before). At this rate it WILL take me about 3 yrs to graduate and apply. So I would have been in Undergrad for over 6 yrs....😱

I wasted a lot of time taking BS courses for my work, which were requiered for me to start designing mechanical components. I took this job, NOT Because I thought I could make a career out of it, but ONLY out of neccessaty (It pays good, so I kept it and took BS courses to move up within the company)

Now do you understand??

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Absolutely. I would like to warn you tho to make sure you take ALL of your pre-med requirements here in the United States in a legit institution (public or private college), make sure you achieve great grades on those (A or B) and when i say this, im referring to required courses such as (inorganic chem 1&2, organic chem 1&2, intro to bio, bio 2 & microbio, anatomy, genetics, physics 1&2, calculus 1&2, your humanities courses and social sciences courses etc). Um sure you'll have no problem with the physics part, since you did take some sort of engineering course work. I know several caribbean schools that admit students with '90 credits' even if they didnt have an undergraduate degree. Please, please, dont do that. Make sure you finish all your required courses and a degree prior to applying to a medical institution (so you have a back up plan). Full mastery of the said pre-med reqs are a good indicator on your performance on the hard-core basic science section of medical school. Which will be hardened studies, no if and or butts (no put intended) .

And if medicine is really what you want to go into, then more power to you. Just make sure you're prepared.........

 

[mrjbb]

Oh I see, I actually planned on applying after I finished some of my pre-reqs, but by that time I wouldn't have a degree yet....🙁

They offer a "pre-med" program.. 1.5 years. But since I would be going in with most pre-reqs done, I would believe it'd have to be only .5 yrs in the pre-med part. Then I would automatically start the med school program.

Is it advisable not to apply without a degree because some states require you to have an undergraduate degree as well as a medical degree in order to be "eligible" for licensure, or do some other reasons exist? If so please list.

I understand though, that without an undergrad degree I would almost be setting myself up, since if "anything" happens and I have to come back to US before finishing then I would be stuck...This I do understand.. I just thought that there were other reasons among this one.

What you think about this school it is ECMF accredited:
http://www.unibe.edu.do/school_of_medicine/

 

[mrjbb]

Anybody?? I really need some help, I don't know where to go with this, since everyone around me DOESN'T know anything about these sort of things. And the fact that I can't call the school ask them for help because they'll probably tell me anything that sounds good just so I would go.

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

Things you want to keep a look at is if it is established, does it have enough grads in the states? Which states recognize it and which do not? These are some of the things you need to keep into consideration.

Try checking these medical schools as well:

St. Eustatius
St. James
St. Matthews
St. George
Ross
American Univ of the Carib
Saba
UAG

etc.

Make sure you discover other options before you make one choice. Do some 'soul searching' so to say.

PM me if you have any other specific questions, bro.

 

[mrjbb]

Things you want to keep a look at is if it is established, does it have enough grads in the states? Which states recognize it and which do not? These are some of the things you need to keep into consideration.

Try checking these medical schools as well:

St. Eustatius
St. James
St. Matthews
St. George
Ross
American Univ of the Carib
Saba
UAG

etc.

Make sure you discover other options before you make one choice. Do some 'soul searching' so to say.

PM me if you have any other specific questions, bro.

Oh ok.I'll check them out, but I have family in the DR and I can apply as a Citizen, so I'll probably narrow my choices down to all the schools in the DR...

 

[AlleghenyPOD]

o....ic.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The honest truth is this:

If you want to practice medicine in the US, you are MUCH better off doing medical school in the US. International grads are at a large disadvantage as far as getting residency slots.

The most competitive residencies take very, very few IMG's (such as derm, radiology, plastics, etc), and so going to an international school virtually ends your chances of getting these spots. Some people do so every year, but very few.

If you go to the Carrib, you are much better off at one of the big 4 schools: St Georges, Ross, AUC, and SABA -- the first two are better known and probably a bit more competitive than the second two.

Ross is on Dominica, which is not the DR.

So:
1. Your best bet is to stay in the US for medical school, if possble.
2. Following that, Ross or St. Georges, with AUC and SABA a close second.
3. Anything beyond this is possible but more risky, you would need to be sure that you do very well on the USMLE's and get some US experience to be competitive at all.

Good luck!

 

[NewHope]

Anybody?? I really need some help, I don't know where to go with this, since everyone around me DOESN'T know anything about these sort of things. And the fact that I can't call the school ask them for help because they'll probably tell me anything that sounds good just so I would go.

newlifedr, Are You an U.S-born Dominican or were you born in D.R? The reason I'm asking is you have to be comfortable living in D.R for all four years, and also to be fluent in Spanish. I think any domicile medical school in D.R will be quite cheap, especially if you enroll as a Dominican citizen. If you are sure about not applying in U.S, I'd say go for it. As far as I know domicile programs of other countries don't cater to U.S and Canadian citizens unlike alternative medical schools in the Caribbean some of which AlleghenyPOD already mentioned. That's why National Dominican schools should not have any restrictions with California and other States approval process. Also, you'll save mucho $$$$$$. The only drawback is you won't have any clinical rotations in U.S. But as many other FMGs practicing in U.S you will do just fine. Also, being a bi-lingual doc will pesent you with almost an unparallele business opportunity. Heck, if I spoke Spanish, and had some family and a place to stay in D.R, I'd look no further. It sure beats accumilating $$$200K in debt for something you may or may not want to do for the rest of your life.

Best of Luck

 

[mrjbb]

newlifedr, Are You an U.S-born Dominican or were you born in D.R? The reason I'm asking is you have to be comfortable living in D.R for all four years, and also to be fluent in Spanish. I think any domicile medical school in D.R will be quite cheap, especially if you enroll as a Dominican citizen. If you are sure about not applying in U.S, I'd say go for it. As far as I know domicile programs of other countries don't cater to U.S and Canadian citizens unlike alternative medical schools in the Caribbean some of which AlleghenyPOD already mentioned. That's why National Dominican schools should not have any restrictions with California and other States approval process. Also, you'll save mucho $$$$$$. The only drawback is you won't have any clinical rotations in U.S. But as many other FMGs practicing in U.S you will do just fine. Also, being a bi-lingual doc will pesent you with almost an unparallele business opportunity. Heck, if I spoke Spanish, and had some family and a place to stay in D.R, I'd look no further. It sure beats accumilating $$$200K in debt for something you may or may not want to do for the rest of your life.

Best of Luck

Yeah, both my parents are Dominican so I can apply as a Citizen. I have visited SEVERAL times, I know how it is over there, I know the "way of life", I speak Fluent Spanish, I have a lot of family all over DR and specifically where my first choice of school over there is located (UNIBE).

Yeah the tuition rates are extremely different compared to US med school rates and out of country as well.
Here's a comparison:

US Med schools Average: $35,000-$40,000/yr

Dominican Republic Med school (If your from the US or NOT a Citizen of DR): $13,500/yr...

DR Med school (IF you're a Citizen of DR):$3,900/yr...

I can choose to live with my aunt almost walking distance...Or (which I prefer) rent a nice apartment for about $150.00-$200.00 US A month....
Remember our US currency is worth more over there...

One US DOLLAR (here) is equal to about 33 of THEIR pesos/dollars (over there)..

 

[Meatwad]

Just don't consider any schools on this unapproved list:

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Unapproved.htm

 

[mrjbb]

Just don't consider any schools on this unapproved list:

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Unapproved.htm

Thanks, Yeah there's 2 school's I'm considering, but so far UNIBE is my first choice... And is at the Heart of DR..The Capital.

 

[mrjbb]

The honest truth is this:

If you want to practice medicine in the US, you are MUCH better off doing medical school in the US. International grads are at a large disadvantage as far as getting residency slots.

The most competitive residencies take very, very few IMG's (such as derm, radiology, plastics, etc), and so going to an international school virtually ends your chances of getting these spots. Some people do so every year, but very few.

If you go to the Carrib, you are much better off at one of the big 4 schools: St Georges, Ross, AUC, and SABA -- the first two are better known and probably a bit more competitive than the second two.

Ross is on Dominica, which is not the DR.

So:
1. Your best bet is to stay in the US for medical school, if possble.
2. Following that, Ross or St. Georges, with AUC and SABA a close second.
3. Anything beyond this is possible but more risky, you would need to be sure that you do very well on the USMLE's and get some US experience to be competitive at all.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply! I'm aware of the "consequences" and reprocutions associated with going offshore... But *one (not all) of the reason I'm even considering Dominican Republic is because I am extremely familiar with the sort of lifestyle practiced over there.

I'm anticipating I will feel almost "at home", of course to a certain extent. I plan on coming back to the states and visiting once in a while whenever the powers at be let me.

I don't know it "all", and don't plan on acting nor implying that I do, so that is why I appreciate your reply..

I am aware of the fact that if I wanted to go into a very competitive specialty I would have to literally jump through hoops in order to obtain one thats feasible. That and needing to have STELLAR USMLE scores..

But, I'm dead set on Primary Care... FP or even IM because I might want to sub-specialize in Oncology or Cardiology latter on... I basically believe I'm perferctly fine (as of now) knowing that I will most likely end up in Primary Care.

But of course my perspective could ultimately change throughout my clinical and sub-internship years..

See, I'm trying to look at everything with a Jaundice eye and then realize the good that could possibly arise... If in the long run (as in the year before I matriculate) I decide that the jaundice eye's gotten the worse of me then I will keep studying here...

Insights welcomed...

 

[NewHope]

Just don't consider any schools on this unapproved list:

http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Unapproved.htm

I'm not a big expert on approve/disapprove lists by various states. But sometimes the same school may have different programs. Usually, the program for domicile needs (i.e teaching doctors for D.R not U.S) are not subject to all kinds of approval lists. These are schools governed by the State(s) or Countries created for the domestic affairs of these States and Countries. Therefore, usually W.H.O listing is enough for applying for licensure anywhere in U.S. However, for-profit schools (so called alternate Caribbean route) exist for purposes of teaching doctors for U.S, and may be a little bit for Canada. That's why they go through the scutiny (read screwtiny 😱 😉 ,right SMU?) process. Also they are just as expensive if not more so than their U.S counterparts. So going to D.R is a very, very viable option. FMG = FMG whether in the end you wound up with $200K or $20 K in debt. I would agree that if you want something uber competative go to med school in U.S. But remeber that 50% of U.S grads go into primary care, and many by choice too. However, in OP's case being able to get medical education at the cost for the Dominican National, having a family down there, and frankly, graduating from the medical school of the real Country, rather than pseudo-American holding in the Caribbean makes a lot more sense to me. I'd say if the OP does foreign route just pick D.R and run with that, IMHO.

 

[AngryBaby]

If in the long run (as in the year before I matriculate) I decide that the jaundice eye's gotten the worse of me then I will keep studying here...

What the hell is jaundice eye??? I mean, I know what a jaundiced eye looks like, but what is the reference here??

 

[mrjbb]

I'm not a big expert on approve/disapprove lists by various states. But sometimes the same school may have different programs. Usually, the program for domicile needs (i.e teaching doctors for D.R not U.S) are not subject to all kinds of approval lists. These are schools governed by the State(s) or Countries created for the domestic affairs of these States and Countries. Therefore, usually W.H.O listing is enough for applying for licensure anywhere in U.S. However, for-profit schools (so called alternate Caribbean route) exist for purposes of teaching doctors for U.S, and may be a little bit for Canada. That's why they go through the scutiny (read screwtiny 😱 😉 ,right SMU?) process. Also they are just as expensive if not more so than their U.S counterparts. So going to D.R is a very, very viable option. FMG = FMG whether in the end you wound up with $200K or $20 K in debt. I would agree that if you want something uber competative go to med school in U.S. But remeber that 50% of U.S grads go into primary care, and many by choice too. However, in OP's case being able to get medical education at the cost for the Dominican National, having a family down there, and frankly, graduating from the medical school of the real Country, rather than pseudo-American holding in the Caribbean makes a lot more sense to me. I'd say if the OP does foreign route just pick D.R and run with that, IMHO.

Thanks Newhope I appreciate your insights.. I'm still considering it and nor will I make a definite decision until everything's been factored in (money, living, education, visit to school..etc..) however all of your responses whether they'd be negative or positive will be factored in as well.....

I've learned to look at things as worst case scenario FIRST then focus on the more soothing positive side of things.....😉

 

[mrjbb]

What the hell is jaundice eye??? I mean, I know what a jaundiced eye looks like, but what is the reference here??

Here: Dictionary Def.

2. A state or feeling of negativity or bitterness arising

4. To distort or prejudice, as by envy or resentment: His social position jaundiced his view of things.

Basically it's used as a negative view of things... You focus on the negative in order to latter weigh in the positive.....

In other words Jaundice=Negative

(The way it's referenced hear, it has no medical meaning)

 

[Meatwad]

Have you looked into Puerto Rican medical schools? They are LCME schools, meaning you are considered a US grad (not an IMG). Classes are taught in Spanish for hte most part, but exams and powerpoint presentations are in English. If you can do well on the MCAT, you might be able to get in. It seems they are more willing to accept mainland US students with lower GPAs provided they have high MCAT scores. This is because they have lower pass rates on the USMLE than most US schools because Spanish is the primary language of most PR med students. You can imagine how ridiculously difficult tests like the MCAT and USMLE are for someone who hasn't used English as extensively as an American their whole life. Since the MCAT can be at least roughly correlated with USMLE testing success, they accept those with high MCAT scores to help raise their USMLE pass rates.

If you can get 6 credits of college Spanish, have a GPA over 3.0, and an MCAT of 30+, you'd have a shot.

 

[mrjbb]

Have you looked into Puerto Rican medical schools? They are LCME schools, meaning you are considered a US grad (not an IMG). Classes are taught in Spanish for hte most part, but exams and powerpoint presentations are in English. If you can do well on the MCAT, you might be able to get in. It seems they are more willing to accept mainland US students with lower GPAs provided they have high MCAT scores. This is because they have lower pass rates on the USMLE than most US schools because Spanish is the primary language of most PR med students. You can imagine how ridiculously difficult tests like the MCAT and USMLE are for someone who hasn't used English as extensively as an American their whole life. Since the MCAT can be at least roughly correlated with USMLE testing success, they accept those with high MCAT scores to help raise their USMLE pass rates.

If you can get 6 credits of college Spanish, have a GPA over 3.0, and an MCAT of 30+, you'd have a shot.

Well, I highly doubt that I'd like it in Puerto Rico.. Not that I have anything against their culture but if I'm going to go Carib then I'd definitely rather go to somewhere I'm from, familiar with, and have self constructive knowledge about already.

Not to offend and PR's but sometimes I can't really mesh with their culture..AT ALL... I mean I'm Spanish but our culture sometimes can be Completely different...

Many times ESPECIALLY in the Carib, Spanish doesn't Always mean Spanish... Caribbean cultures at times can be diversely and completely incomparable to each other depending on where you reside...

But thanks anyways...😀

 

[Meatwad]

Well, I highly doubt that I'd like it in Puerto Rico.. Not that I have anything against their culture but if I'm going to go Carib then I'd definitely rather go to somewhere I'm from, familiar with, and have self constructive knowledge about already.

Not to offend and PR's but sometimes I can't really mesh with their culture..AT ALL... I mean I'm Spanish but our culture sometimes can be Completely different...

Many times ESPECIALLY in the Carib, Spanish doesn't Always mean Spanish... Caribbean cultures at time can be diversely and completely incomparable to each other many times..

But thanks anyways...😀

I see what you're saying. I mean, I'm not hispanic at all (100% European descent), but if I was considering going outside of the 50 US states, I'd go to PR before I went to Ireland, even though Ireland or Germany, even though is where "my people," are originally from. I do believe the LCME thing is truly important enough to transcend any cultural differences. Living in Podunk, Iowa would be a huge change for someone from the Bronx, but plenty of kids do it every year when they get into a med school in another state. Maybe you can think of it that way, no?

Just trying to provide you with the paths of least resistance for your future.

 

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[Meatwad]

1. Does not getting a residency in say, radiology, mean you won't be able to practice radiology once your residencies have ended?

Well, yeah... that's what the point of residency is. If you don't do a residency in radiology, you can't be a radiologist. Just like a psychiatrist can't do surgery, a dermatologist doesn't deliver babies, etc. Maybe you worded your question wrong...?

 

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[Meatwad]

Really I'm wondering if there's any way around the problem - continued studies, a transfer, anything... it seems ridiculous that you could go to medical school and end up practicing a form of medicine you find uninteresting..

That's why it's not wise to go into medicine unless you'd be happy in the less competitive fields, in my opinion. If you'd rather not be a doctor than practice family medicine or internal medicine, maybe it's not the best career choice. It's like a dentist only going to dental school to become an orthodontist (which means you need to be top 10% of your class, high percentile on exams, etc. etc.); it could happen, but the chances are it won't.

You could do a second residency, but that's a messy business. There are funding issues, etc. You should really try your hardest to match into the specialty you want on your first try. It will save you years of time and money.

Incidentally, are there any residencies NOT open to DOs? Would a DO have an easier time getting a residency for surgery, neurology, radiology etc. and practicing this kind of medicine than an IMG?

No, DOs can apply to allopathic and osteopathic residencies. Therefore, from a strictly numerical standpoint, a DO is at an advantage when compared with an IMG. With that said, the "advantage<' is not really a clear-cut one. A DO with a crap score on the Step 1 exam is not going to fare any better, I don't think, than the IMG with good board scores. What is working in his favor, though, is if he made connections, he could have a shot at DO residencies in the field of his choice (which you cannot say for an IMG).

As it is now, surgery and radiology are still very possible for IMGs; however, the average board scores are rising every year for both, and what is true today might not be true tomorrow.

If I was very set on something dermatology or otolaryngology, though, I would not go to the Caribbean. I would reapply to US MD schools or go to a DO school. Many DOs match into derm and ENT every year (there are a decent amount of osteopathic residencies in both specialties), whereas 1 or 2 IMGs from the Caribbean match into those specialties in a good year. I don't believe an IMG with good board scores would have too much of a problem getting a neurology spot somewhere, although it may not be at MGH.

 

[mrjbb]

Really I'm wondering if there's any way around the problem - continued studies, a transfer, anything... it seems ridiculous that you could go to medical school and end up practicing a form of medicine you find uninteresting..

Incidentally, are there any residencies NOT open to DOs? Would a DO have an easier time getting a residency for surgery, neurology, radiology etc. and practicing this kind of medicine than an IMG?

NO there aren't any residencies NOT open to DO's. If a DO takes the USMLE as well as the COMLEX he/she can apply for ANY type of residency.

The only time a DO can't apply to a specific residency is if the DO's applying to an allopathic residency and he/she hasn't taken the USMLE...

But there are residencies specified and isolated ONLY for DO's by the AOA (American Osteopathic Association) in EVERY specialty... It's just some specialties that are available by the AOA like Radiology, Gen Surgery, EM might be in undeserved/rural areas OR an area that you just DON'T like...

A DO has a WAY better chance of landing a specialty thats competitive compared to an IMG as long as the DO's USMLE scores aren't idiotic. MOST IMG's WILL go into some sort of Primary Care... Unless you have Spectacular Step scores that completely overshadow even students in the top 10% of US medical schools... And I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

It's just how it is....

 

[Meatwad]

The only time a DO can't apply to a specific residency is if the DO's applying to an allopathic residency and he/she hasn't taken the USMLE...

Actually, interestingly enough, many allopathic residencies seem to accept the COMLEX (especially less competitive ones). Of course, if you are gunning for allopathic plastic surgery, I'd plan on destroying the USMLE moreso than the COMLEX.

 

[mrjbb]

I see what you're saying. I mean, I'm not hispanic at all (100% European descent), but if I was considering going outside of the 50 US states, I'd go to PR before I went to Ireland, even though Ireland or Germany, even though is where "my people," are originally from. I do believe the LCME thing is truly important enough to transcend any cultural differences. Living in Podunk, Iowa would be a huge change for someone from the Bronx, but plenty of kids do it every year when they get into a med school in another state. Maybe you can think of it that way, no?

Just trying to provide you with the paths of least resistance for your future.

Yeah I understand.. Many times I've said "yeah it doesn't matter where I get my medical degree as long as I get it" and thats ok, but just not how I think anymore.

Living in NY and then moving to Kansas can be a completely different setting and can be exceptionally hard to adapt to, but I'll still live in a place (US) where mostly everything is still done the same... Same language, same culture, many times same interest as most people living there...

Now Dominican and Puertoricans are both "Hispanic", However our culture, language (yes we speak very different at times) because even though we both speak Spanish it's nowhere near the "exact" same Spanish. There are many words they use that we can't comprehend, as well as there are many words and ways of saying certain things that we incorporate and they can't get a clue of what we've just said!

If I'm going to go study medicine away from the US, I'd rather go to a country were I'll feel at home, were I've visited many times, were I'm NOT alone, and were I can COMPLETELY relate to the culture...

Besides the school I'm considering is accredited, listed on who website, is eligible to receive (US) Federal Government Loans, has been around for a while, and has a good reputation (even if you haven't heard of it).

So going to ROSS, SGU, St. Mathews, AUG would be almost out of the question, UNLESS I absolutely had to. Because I want to pursue medicine that much. If I had to go to all these other Carib schools then I would go.
But I'd rather go to ROSS or SGU ANY day rather than PR..Sorry it's the truth...

I appreciate your insight!!....

 

[mrjbb]

Actually, interestingly enough, many allopathic residencies seem to accept the COMLEX (especially less competitive ones). Of course, if you are gunning for allopathic plastic surgery, I'd plan on destroying the USMLE moreso than the COMLEX.

Wow, thanx for the reminder. I have heard of this before but seemed to have forgotten.. MY mistake... I'll correct my post!

Yeah there are some residencies that take the COMLEX, what some do as I've heard is they take the COMLEX and "Interpret" it so they can compare it to the USMLE scores of the other allopathic students you may be competing against.

 

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[Meatwad]

Thanks for your help guys...

I'm always hearing that DO schools provide the exact same education as MD schools...how could there be different material on the COMLEX? Why wouldn't DOs just take the USMLE by default?



I haven't been, but St. Maarten looks like a tourist resort - it doesn't sound like too much culture shock..

Politics. The AOA is a distinct entity, as is the AMA. The AOA makes money off of forcing students to take the COMLEX. Plus, if they do away with the COMLEX, they can do away with other facets of osteopathic medicine that makes it distinct from allopathic medicine. At that point, where do you draw the line? Why not convert all DOs to MDs? You see how this could go on forever?

Plus, the COMLEX doesn't have a lot of biochemistry (supposedly), and also tests on OMM (something not taught in MD schools).

I don't know about you, but I don't live in Vegas, so going anywhere that looks like a tourist resort would be culture shock for me

 

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[Meatwad]

For the love of God somebody prove him wrong!
I should clip this to a separate post because I do not want to become a primary care doctor...

No, he is correct; the vast majority of IMGs go into primary care. Not all, but very many. That's not to say you can't get a competitive residency, but don't expect it to happen (which can be said for any school, even Harvard or WashU).

 

[oldpro]

Two questions...

1. Does not getting a residency in say, radiology, mean you won't be able to practice radiology once your residencies have ended?

No you can do a residency in IM then later do one in Rads, it has been done before by many people, there are no set rules on this.

2. Why do you say AUC is less competitive than ROSS? It seems they at least as many resources.

This is an opinion, mine is there is no difference between AUC/ROSS/SGU

 

[oldpro]

NO there aren't any residencies NOT open to DO's. If a DO takes the USMLE as well as the COMLEX he/she can apply for ANY type of residency.

Do not know where you get this misinformation this is not true, I know of 3 programs right away who will not hire DO's, one is surgery, these program directors feel that the DO is not a "FIT" for the programs.

The only time a DO can't apply to a specific residency is if the DO's applying to an allopathic residency and he/she hasn't taken the USMLE...

This is not the only time see above, but true and so a DO must take both tests! I see this as a limitation if one does not want to do that.

But there are residencies specified and isolated ONLY for DO's by the AOA (American Osteopathic Association) in EVERY specialty... It's just some specialties that are available by the AOA like Radiology, Gen Surgery, EM might be in undeserved/rural areas OR an area that you just DON'T like...

True and most are primary care, BTW why is it hard to believe that there are "MD" only programs unofficial?

A DO has a WAY better chance of landing a specialty thats competitive compared to an IMG as long as the DO's USMLE scores aren't idiotic. MOST IMG's WILL go into some sort of Primary Care... Unless you have Spectacular Step scores that completely overshadow even students in the top 10% of US medical schools... And I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

I just did clinicals with a Board certified GI doc who is now writting Q's directl for the Board and is also a Mayo clinic Doc, Uh FMG...... As well as Know of Neuro Doc FMG, As well Know of 2 in Radiology FMG, as well as one in Derm If I had time I would go on, this is just a silly statement, Residencies depend on many factors and not just FMG verses USMD/DO in fact I know one student top of her class in a US medical school who had to go into the scramble due to a messed up attitude/ personality, no one would match them, this happens
do not believe the sunshine up your butt from the US students, there is a dark side nothing is "Always". Of course DO will have an easier time all around but to post always is just wrong.

It's just how it is....

Well yes after I corrected you!

BTW as you I'm not an expert but I have been in Medicine since 1985, (Yea I'm Old) I have worked with these people and seen the changes, but know 100s of FMG's DUe to my Nursing in the past and I have worked in 8 states up and done the east coast. SO I have a lot of exposure as well as I have researched my butt off to know the truth so I can practice once down in 1.5 years now (YEAH!) so good luck but try not to think you know it all, I do not. Sometimes SDN is an EGO War.

 

[mrjbb]

Yeah I'm not completely mis informed, however I did word several things incorrectly... (Not saying that I'm right..)

The statement about a US MD/DO having a better chance of landing a more competative residency's correct (IMO) by all counts..

Lets see.... If a US MD student scored spectacular on his boards and was top 10% of his class applies for Gen Surgery while competing with a FMG with mediocore scores but in the top 10% of his class. Who do you think Residency Directors are going to Interview?

C'mon the truth is that it is possible to score real high as an FMG on the boards however it isn't always a reality. (This is ALL coming from research I've done about scores, FMG, US Students, etc...)

Though I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, I'm just being oppinionated with the facts.....

Maybe you probably have seen and know of FMG's that have gotten stellar residencies however how rare is it?

OLD.. What Carib school do you go to?

How's it been for you so far?

Any abnormal obsticles you've had to hurdle since your at the Carib?

Thanks....

 

[NotAProgDirector]

But, I'm dead set on Primary Care... FP or even IM because I might want to sub-specialize in Oncology or Cardiology latter on... I basically believe I'm perferctly fine (as of now) knowing that I will most likely end up in Primary Care.

No one pointed out the inconsistancy in this statement. Cardiology and H/O are not primary care. Getting a cardiology fellowship requires getting a spot in a univeristy program or a good community program with a cards fellowship -- both of which may be difficult if your MD is from the DR. H/O is slightly less competitive, but not much.

An important part of this would be to see UNIBE's match list. By looking at the match list, you can get a good sense of what your chances are of getting a good spot in the US.

You also want to know if UNIBE allows you to do a rotation (or more) in the US. This is the best way to improve your application strength. Remember that if they "allow" it you'll probably need to do all the work to actually arrange it, which can be very difficult.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

A DO has a WAY better chance of landing a specialty thats competitive compared to an IMG as long as the DO's USMLE scores aren't idiotic. MOST IMG's WILL go into some sort of Primary Care... Unless you have Spectacular Step scores that completely overshadow even students in the top 10% of US medical schools... And I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

The match data does a reasonably good gob of answering this data.

You can get the data here. You'll want the "results and data" file.

Let's start by using Diagnostic Rads as an example of a competitive field.

Table 15 shows how many slots went to each type of applicant. Unlike other tables, this one separates out the different subtypes of independent app's -- US grads, US IMG's, DO's, 5th pathway, Canadians, and IMG's. From this table we see that 37 IMG's and 33 DO's got PGY-2 DR spots last year (don't get confused by the PGY-1 listing for Diag Rads, which represent a very small number of programs).

To make sense of these numbers, we need a denominator. Unfortunately, the best we can get is the total number of applicants. From Table 2 we see that there were 1652 Osteopaths and 6992 IMG's, so percentagewise DO's do much better in DR. Of course, this assumes that the percentage of DO's and IMG's who want Diag Rads is the same, which I can't tell from the data presented.

Probably the best way to address this issue is to look at Gen Surgery. In GS, there are PGY-1 Categorical spots, and PGY-1 Prelim spots. I would like to make the following assumption:

The only reason an applicant would take a Surgery Prelim PGY-1 is because they can't get a Surgery Categorical PGY-1.

This ignores the people in Opthal etc. who need a prelim PGY-1, but I expect they make up a very small number of DO's and IMG's and hence are safely ignored.

So, if you agree with the above statement, then another way to look at how competitive the various independent applicant types are is to compare how many get Cat PGY-1 vs Prelim PGY-1.

Back to table 15:

US Seniors: 826 Cat / 481 Prelim -- 63% in Categorical Surgery
US Grads: 68 Cat / 19 Prelim -- 78% in Categorical Surgery
US IMG's: 56 Cat / 55 Prleim -- 50% in Catergorical Surgery
DO's: 30 Cat / 20 Prelim -- 60% in categorical Surgery
IMG's: 74 Cat / 204 Prelim -- 27% in Categorical Surgery

This also demonstrates that DO's seem to do better in the match than IMGs.

All of this ignores prematch offers, of course.

 

[oldpro]

Yeah I'm not completely mis informed, however I did word several things incorrectly... (Not saying that I'm right..)

The statement about a US MD/DO having a better chance of landing a more competative residency's correct (IMO) by all counts..

Lets see.... If a US MD student scored spectacular on his boards and was top 10% of his class applies for Gen Surgery while competing with a FMG with mediocore scores but in the top 10% of his class. Who do you think Residency Directors are going to Interview?

C'mon the truth is that it is possible to score real high as an FMG on the boards however it isn't always a reality. (This is ALL coming from research I've done about scores, FMG, US Students, etc...)

Though I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, I'm just being oppinionated with the facts.....

Maybe you probably have seen and know of FMG's that have gotten stellar residencies however how rare is it?

OLD.. What Carib school do you go to?

How's it been for you so far?

Any abnormal obsticles you've had to hurdle since your at the Carib?

Thanks....

And thats the flaw in all this, Who you know and connections have a lot to do with matching, I do not care what some poster who claims to be a program director here says( no disrespect intended), they are only one director of many.

I know first hand that FMGs do not have to go into the match and they may land a residency out side the match so you cannot look those numbers up, they are not disclosed.

The point I make always of course it's better to go to a US school the path is easier and I, as a FMG, am busting my butt, but lets face it, If I do well, Interview like I'm bright and "Fit" into the program I will match, so many think

ME DOCTOR ME GET RESIDENCY LOL really? Shows like House are pure fantasy and a lot of Medstudents I have gone to school with are caught in fantasies.


Hard to argue the unknown and no one really knows how many match outside the match.


Also anyone reading this who can work a little harder and get into a US MD or DO school should do this for your future, it will be better all around, for those of you who cannot, then the Caribbean or Europe will not be, is not, that bad, competitive residencies are harder but not impossible to get as the poster seems to believe.

 

[mrjbb]

I appreciate everyones imput and will take most of it into consideration. As a decision hasn't been met yet, I'll keep digging and researching my options (which appear to be many...😉)