NEED ADVICE!!! PLS HELP!!

[depressed_doctor]

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Hello everyone!
I need some advice as I don't know what I'm doing with my life LOL

In a fourth-year student, and I will graduate in April from my undergrad in Biology.

I have applied to some graduate programs, and I have been accepted for an MPH (one year program)

I also applied to Irish medical school from Atlantic bridge- however, only the five-year program ( instead of four). The five-year program is that I have not written the MCAT. I will be writing the MCAT in late June, which only allows me to apply for the 2023 application cycle in both Canada and USA.

Most individuals who applied to Atlantic bridge (well, at least to the schools I applied to) have not heard back. They told us that we would receive an answer before the first of April, but we have not. I'm not sure when they will be sending out offers, and when I asked Atlantic Bridge directly, they provided very unspecific responses.

I have to accept my offer to MPH by April 16. So here are my questions!!

1. Should I wait for Ireland?

2. Should I accept my MPH offer since I won't know when Ireland med schools will reply?

3. Since my MPH program is one year, should I get an MPH degree just in case because if I go to Irish med schools, I will be IMG, and if I do not match, I will have a job with an MPH. Also, because I am graduating this year and can only apply for med school for the 2023 schools year, that leaves me one year to spare ( I can either work or do an MPH).

4. Wouldn't it be a better idea to do MPH, write the MCAT, and apply to USA and Canada med schools?

5. Wait for Ireland until April 16- and then, if I do not hear back, will I accept the MPH offer?

6. Decline MPH and wait for Ireland?

Please HELP IM GOING INSANE IN THE MEMBRANE

Also, does anyone know if Canadian MPH degrees are valid in the USA? Since I am trying to do a residency in the USA rather Than Canada anyways?

 

[PapaGuava]

Thread moved to Pre-medical MD.

 

[depressed_doctor]

Thread moved to Pre-medical MD.

Thanks!!! Was having trouble finding it!

 

[Goro]

If you want to practice medicine in the US, go to a US med school.

The MPH will not help for your app to med school.

"Write the MCAT"? You're Canadian?

 

[depressed_doctor]

If you want to practice medicine in the US, go to a US med school.

The MPH will not help for your app to med school.

"Write the MCAT"? You're Canadian?

Hi
I have not written the MCAT. I secured a test date at the end of June. So I can only apply for med school in both Canada and USA for the 2023 cycle. This gives me about 1 year to spare after I graduate. I can either do MPH- which I’m not trying to do for med school, I think it’s a great opportunity to get into clinical research. Or I can go to Ireland (if accepted) and do the five year program without writing the MCAT and without having applied to USA or Canada med schools.

Regardless 1 year MPH + 4 years of medical school = 5 years

Irish medical school is also 5 years.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

You're better off being in the US or Canada for medical school if you want to practice in the US or Canada. I imagine going to Ireland makes it very hard for you to come back to either of the two countries to practice since over there everything is different from the system here. Also, I am very wary of any medical school that does not require any entrance exam (like the MCAT). I'd say accept the MPH, take the MCAT, and apply to US and Canadian schools. That sounds like the most reasonable choice here.

 

[depressed_doctor]

the only offer the 5 year program to students who have not written the MCAT and this because in Europe students enter medical school after highschool so I would be joining them. Instead of undergrad and then med school.

 

[candbgirl]

Where is your citizenship?
Why did you apply to Ireland?
Where do you plan to do your residency?
Where do you plan to practice?
Why do you keep saying “…I can only apply for med school in both Canada and USA for the 2023 cycle.”? (Once you have a MCAT score you can apply to US and Canadian schools any cycle.)
Are you really interested in doing the MPH? Where is the program? US, Canada, elsewhere?
Why don’t you fill in this grid and maybe we can help you out more.

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

Wait until 2023. Work in the meantime to save up towards paying first year med school. Better than taking more debt

 

[depressed_doctor]

Where is your citizenship?
Why did you apply to Ireland?
Where do you plan to do your residency?
Where do you plan to practice?
Why do you keep saying “…I can only apply for med school in both Canada and USA for the 2023 cycle.”? (Once you have a MCAT score you can apply to US and Canadian schools any cycle.)
Are you really interested in doing the MPH? Where is the program? US, Canada, elsewhere?
Why don’t you fill in this grid and maybe we can help you out more.

*~*~*~*IMPORTANT: How to Format Your WAMC Thread for Optimal Results and More!!*~*~*~*

Hello, and welcome to the What Are My Chances (WAMC) forum. The purpose of this forum is to Post threads about your chances of acceptance to MD and/or DO schools Have your school list critiqued and modified by other members of SDN Determine how to strengthen your current application General...

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I’m Canadian

I applied to Ireland because it was the only medical school I could apply to because I did not write the mcat.

I would like to do residency in the US- hence there is more opportunities

I don’t really know where I want to practice LOL. My guess is probably the same place I do residency.

I say that because I am going to graduate from my undergrad in April. And if I apply for med school I will start med school in fall 2023. This gives me a one year gap. Instead of a gap I was thinking of doing MPH since it’s one year program in Canada.

Yes I am interested in MPH. I would love to study public health. The MPH degree is from Canada. I would like to conduct research in healthcare preventative strategies.

 

[depressed_doctor]

Wait until 2023. Work in the meantime to save up towards paying first year med school. Better than taking more debt

Finding a good job is hard in Canada especially with only an undergraduate degree. I also want to have a job doing research at a hospital but it’s mostly reserved for masters or PhD students.

 

[Goro]

I’m Canadian

I applied to Ireland because it was the only medical school I could apply to because I did not write the mcat.

I would like to do residency in the US- hence there is more opportunities

I don’t really know where I want to practice LOL. My guess is probably the same place I do residency.

I say that because I am going to graduate from my undergrad in April. And if I apply for med school I will start med school in fall 2023. This gives me a one year gap. Instead of a gap I was thinking of doing MPH since it’s one year program in Canada.

Yes I am interested in MPH. I would love to study public health. The MPH degree is from Canada. I would like to conduct research in healthcare preventative strategies.

You're trying to take the easy way out and it's only going to bite you in the ass.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

I’m Canadian

I applied to Ireland because it was the only medical school I could apply to because I did not write the mcat.

I would like to do residency in the US- hence there is more opportunities

I don’t really know where I want to practice LOL. My guess is probably the same place I do residency.

I say that because I am going to graduate from my undergrad in April. And if I apply for med school I will start med school in fall 2023. This gives me a one year gap. Instead of a gap I was thinking of doing MPH since it’s one year program in Canada.

Yes I am interested in MPH. I would love to study public health. The MPH degree is from Canada. I would like to conduct research in healthcare preventative strategies.

If you want to do residency in the US definitely try to be in the US for medical school. The match rate into residency for Non-American International Medical Graduate (Non-US IMG) was only 58% this year. AKA it is super hard for this category of students. Meaning US MD and DO students are matching at over a 91% rate.
See page 10 of this document

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2022-FINAL.pdf

 

[depressed_doctor]

You're trying to take the easy way out and it's only going to bite you in the ass.

What easy way out? Can you tell me?

I’m debating to do an MPH for one year and I have secured an MCAT date for late June so I can have my scores by August 1st. How am I taking the easy way out? I’m literally trying to do an MPH to gain research and focus on healthcare. The easy way out would be taking a gap year and doing nothing but wait for Ireland - but I’m not doing that. Just like everyone else who applying to medical school I am writing the MCAT I paid 367.24$ USD (probably ~400 CAD) to write this test while volunteering for research at a hospital and taking MPH prerequisites. But as u said sounds like an easy way out lol.

 

[depressed_doctor]

If you want to do residency in the US definitely try to be in the US for medical school. The match rate into residency for Non-American International Medical Graduate (Non-US IMG) was only 58% this year. AKA it is super hard for this category of students. Meaning US MD and DO students are matching at over a 91% rate.
See page 10 of this document

https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Advance-Data-Tables-2022-FINAL.pdf

I know ALLLL about this. I’ve read every statistic there is to read LOL. I’m fully aware of the consequences and I would love to be accepted to US med school, but easier said than done.

 

[Goro]

What easy way out? Can you tell me?

I’m debating to do an MPH for one year and I have secured an MCAT date for late June so I can have my scores by August 1st. How am I taking the easy way out? I’m literally trying to do an MPH to gain research and focus on healthcare. The easy way out would be taking a gap year and doing nothing but wait for Ireland - but I’m not doing that. Just like everyone else who applying to medical school I am writing the MCAT I paid 367.24$ USD (probably ~400 CAD) to write this test while volunteering for research at a hospital and taking MPH prerequisites. But as u said sounds like an easy way out lol.

You stated that you want to avoid the MCAT and so are attracted to the Irish school, which will give you a < 50-50 chance of being a doctor.

 

[depressed_doctor]

You stated that you want to avoid the MCAT and so are attracted to the Irish school, which will give you a < 50-50 chance of being a doctor.

Where did I say AVOID? I said that I could only apply for the five year programs at Irish medical schools because it was my only option, hence I did not write the MCAT.

 

[candbgirl]

I’m sorry you are upset buy the responses. I know it’s hard to get accepted to Canadian med schools. And Canadians accepted to US schools are usually rock stars with great stats and exceptional ECs. Not many US schools accept international students. That’s why I suggested you complete the grid so we can all see where you actually are in terms of competitiveness for US schools.
It seems you really want to do the MPH. So go do it.
Good luck.

 

[KnightDoc]

Where did I say AVOID? I said that I could only apply for the five year programs at Irish medical schools because it was my only option, hence I did not write the MCAT.

Right. I think that what people are trying to say is that you might have put the cart before the horse. It's not too late to fix it.

Do the MPH if you want to. It won't help you with American med school admissions, but it also won't hurt. The easy way out would be attending a foreign medical school that does not require the MCAT, and then trying to match into a US residency. It might work, but there is a very reasonable chance that you would end up with a Canadian MPH, an Irish medical degree, and no job as a doctor.

As a result, if you are taking the MCAT anyway, and if you want to practice in the US, you need to wait until you have a MCAT score and then see where you might be a competitive candidate for admission in the US. The easy way out would be trying to short circuit this process.

You asked for advice, so here it is. Do the MPH if you want, but not because you think it will give you an edge with a MD admission, because it won't. Withdraw from AB. Before you receive an acceptance, so you won't have to lie about it or explain it to an American medical school in the future. (Refusing an acceptance to a medical school is a red flag to them.) Study hard for the MCAT. No rush to take it this June, because you are not applying this year, and have until Spring 2023 to have a score in time to apply for that cycle (2023-24). Do well. And then come back for advice on where to apply in the US and Canada.

 

[depressed_doctor]

yeah if I wanted to apply for the September 2023 cycle I would have to apply this summer. Especially before august 1st to be considered for first rounds (DO and MD) - since I am Canadian. My GPA is 3.7, I have 500 hours shadowing and 300 working as an admin at a walk in clinic with some clinical research volunteering.

For Canada, applications are due October 1 for the September 2023 cycle. Which gives me exactly one year to spare after I graduate from my undergrad which is why I feel that the MPH option is great because it is one year and it would allow me to have a new perspective on healthcare and potentially open doors for clinical research.

 

[KnightDoc]

yeah if I wanted to apply for the September 2023 cycle I would have to apply this summer. Especially before august 1st to be considered for first rounds (DO and MD) - since I am Canadian. My GPA is 3.7, I have 500 hours shadowing and 300 working as an admin at a walk in clinic with some clinical research volunteering.

For Canada, applications are due October 1 for the September 2023 cycle. Which gives me exactly one year to spare after I graduate from my undergrad which is why I feel that the MPH option is great because it is one year and it would allow me to have a new perspective on healthcare and potentially open doors for clinical research.

Your GPA is competitive for American schools, especially if you do well on the MCAT. One thing that American schools like that you didn't mention is non-clinical volunteering, so look into getting a few hundred hours of that over the next year as well.

Unless you are confident that you will be ready to do well in June, there is really no reason to take it then. My suggestion would be to shoot for next January or March, which would give you time to take it again, if necessary, before US applications open in May. It would also be that much "fresher" if you find yourself needing to reapply in a future cycle, since scores expire after around 3 years at most US schools.

I just think you jumped the gun with AB. I get why being able to apply now without a MCAT seemed attractive, but offshore medical schools are really last resorts for people who cannot get into domestic (US or Canada, MD or DO) schools after several attempts. And you are simply very far from that place right now. With your grades and experience to date, you are a prime candidate to be successful once you check all the necessary boxes.

 

[depressed_doctor]

I’m sorry you are upset buy the responses. I know it’s hard to get accepted to Canadian med schools. And Canadians accepted to US schools are usually rock stars with great stats and exceptional ECs. Not many US schools accept international students. That’s why I suggested you complete the grid so we can all see where you actually are in terms of competitiveness for US schools.
It seems you really want to do the MPH. So go do it.
Good luck.

You are not upsetting me. I am well aware of the competitiveness and which US mednechools are Canadian friendly and which aren't. I also know which DO schools are Canadian friendly and which aren't. There is one that saves 24 seats for Canadian.

Which is why I'm considering Ireland in the first place.

 

[depressed_doctor]

Your GPA is competitive for American schools, especially if you do well on the MCAT. One thing that American schools like that you didn't mention is non-clinical volunteering, so look into getting a few hundred hours of that over the next year as well.

Unless you are confident that you will be ready to do well in June, there is really no reason to take it then. My suggestion would be to shoot for next January or March, which would give you time to take it again, if necessary, before US applications open in May. It would also be that much "fresher" if you find yourself needing to reapply in a future cycle, since scores expire after around 3 years at most US schools.

I just think you jumped the gun with AB. I get why being able to apply now without a MCAT seemed attractive, but offshore medical schools are really last resorts for people who cannot get into domestic (US or Canada, MD or DO) schools after several attempts. And you are simply very far from that place right now. With your grades and experience to date, you are a prime candidate to be successful once you check all the necessary boxes.

Really? It matters to them which foreign medical school accepts me and which doesn't ?

 

[KnightDoc]

Really? It matters to them which foreign medical school accepts me and which doesn't ?

Yes and no. Some schools won't ask, but others will. Not whether you were rejected anywhere, but whether you were accepted.

If they care, it doesn't matter to them whether it's foreign, domestic, Caribbean, whatever. Their ability to check will certainly be hampered if it's not a domestic school, but you will be left with a decision regarding whether the remote risk of getting caught lying is worth the potentially devastating consequences (expulsion).

They care because it's a window into your judgment (applying to a school, being accepted, and then turning it down with no other option evidences poor judgment in not doing your homework before wasting your own and an adcom's time). Similar reason they would care if you were thrown out for cheating, or flunked out.

For you, now, it's entirely avoidable. If you want to go to Ireland this summer, don't withdraw and hope for the acceptance. Otherwise, withdraw and avoid the issue.

 

[depressed_doctor]

Yes and no. Some schools won't ask, but others will. Not whether you were rejected anywhere, but whether you were accepted.

If they care, it doesn't matter to them whether it's foreign, domestic, Caribbean, whatever. Their ability to check will certainly be hampered if it's not a domestic school, but you will be left with a decision regarding whether the remote risk of getting caught lying is worth the potentially devastating consequences (expulsion).

They care because it's a window into your judgment (applying to a school, being accepted, and then turning it down with no other option evidences poor judgment in not doing your homework before wasting your own and an adcom's time). Similar reason they would care if you were thrown out for cheating, or flunked out.

For you, now, it's entirely avoidable. If you want to go to Ireland this summer, don't withdraw and hope for the acceptance. Otherwise, withdraw and avoid the issue.

Wow wtf?!! Like all up in ur bussssssnussssss

 

[KnightDoc]

Wow wtf?!! Like all up in ur bussssssnussssss

Yup. Kinda. It's not universal. But, OTOH, you are really an outlier here. Med school admission in the States isn't quite as crazy as Canada, but it's still really tough. As a result, most people don't dare give up an acceptance if they have one, even if they are a little disappointed because, among other reasons, reapplicants have a tougher time than first time applicants.

Beyond that, as I said before, most people only go out of the country as a last resort, so this just isn't an issue for them. By the time they are going to the Caribbean, or Ireland, or wherever, they are well past the point of turning down the acceptance if it's the only one they have.

The question for you, now that you have made the post, is what do you want to do? If you want Ireland, you don't need to apologize for that. If you're not sure, why not pull the application, at least until you have a chance to see how you do on the MCAT and how you do after a Canadian and US cycle? Doing this will cost you a year (you could reapply to Ireland next year along with Canada and US, and enter their 5 year program then if you strike out in North America), but your upside is significant if you can avoid having to match back into either country as an IMG.

Edit - In fact, it won't even cost you a year because by next year you'll have the MCAT, and could apply to Ireland's 4 year program! 🙂

 

[depressed_doctor]

Yup. Kinda. It's not universal. But, OTOH, you are really an outlier here. Med school admission in the States isn't quite as crazy as Canada, but it's still really tough. As a result, most people don't dare give up an acceptance if they have one, even if they are a little disappointed because, among other reasons, reapplicants have a tougher time than first time applicants.

Beyond that, as I said before, most people only go out of the country as a last resort, so this just isn't an issue for them. By the time they are going to the Caribbean, or Ireland, or wherever, they are well past the point of turning down the acceptance if it's the only one they have.

The question for you, now that you have made the post, is what do you want to do? If you want Ireland, you don't need to apologize for that. If you're not sure, why not pull the application, at least until you have a chance to see how you do on the MCAT and how you do after a Canadian and US cycle? Doing this will cost you a year (you could reapply to Ireland next year along with Canada and US, and enter their 5 year program then if you strike out in North America), but your upside is significant if you can avoid having the match back into either country as an IMG.

I like to think of it in a way that it won't cost me one year because the Irish medical school program is five years (because I have not sat the MCAT) and medical school in Canada or USA is 4 years. So, one year MPH + 4 years of medical school is 5 years regardless!

That being said, I think I will take a year and do my MPH, write the MCAT, gain some research experience, strengthen my ECs and the re-apply to EVERYWHERE LOL Canada, USA, carrib (ONLY SGU), Ireland (4 year program) and see where that gets me!

This way I will at least have a masters degree and if I'm lucky, a medical one. MPH is a very valuable degree itself and it opens doors for a lot of public health careers and professions! Instead of just a medical degree from a foreign country 🙂

 

[depressed_doctor]

My mother was an IMG - different story cause she actually did not know English but when I say I am WELL AWARE of the consequences of being an IMG, I mean that I have first hand experience on how hard matching is. Took my mother several years to match to primary care - but it was all worth it

 

[KnightDoc]

I like to think of it in a way that it won't cost me one year because the Irish medical school program is five years (because I have not sat the MCAT) and medical school in Canada or USA is 4 years. So, one year MPH + 4 years of medical school is 5 years regardless!

That being said, I think I will take a year and do my MPH, write the MCAT, gain some research experience, strengthen my ECs and the re-apply to EVERYWHERE LOL Canada, USA, carrib (ONLY SGU), Ireland (4 year program) and see where that gets me!

This way I will at least have a masters degree and if I'm lucky, a medical one. MPH is a very valuable degree itself and it opens doors for a lot of public health careers and professions! Instead of just a medical degree from a foreign country 🙂

Yes, and as I updated my previous post to reflect, even if you decide to apply to Ireland next year as a backup, you won't lose the year because you'll have the MCAT and will be able to apply to their 4 year program. Basically, you have zero downside to pulling the plug now if you are willing to take the MCAT, as you clearly are. Good luck!! 🙂

 

[candbgirl]

I like to think of it in a way that it won't cost me one year because the Irish medical school program is five years (because I have not sat the MCAT) and medical school in Canada or USA is 4 years. So, one year MPH + 4 years of medical school is 5 years regardless!

That being said, I think I will take a year and do my MPH, write the MCAT, gain some research experience, strengthen my ECs and the re-apply to EVERYWHERE LOL Canada, USA, carrib (ONLY SGU), Ireland (4 year program) and see where that gets me!

This way I will at least have a masters degree and if I'm lucky, a medical one. MPH is a very valuable degree itself and it opens doors for a lot of public health careers and professions! Instead of just a medical degree from a foreign country 🙂

Do some research. I remember reading about some accreditation issues SGU has. I’ll see if I can find it. But look yourself.

 

[depressed_doctor]

Do some research. I remember reading about some accreditation issues SGU has. I’ll see if I can find it. But look yourself.

I think I heard something about it too…. Hmmm

 

[KnightDoc]

I think I heard something about it too…. Hmmm

FWIW - THAT is the least of the reasons to avoid a school in the Caribbean.

They are a for profit that generates significant economic activity on their island. I would bet anything they'll get their Caribbean accreditation issue straightened out. After which you'd still be left with a school that takes just about all comers and weeds them out once they arrive.

Based on what you have said, you are absolutely not a candidate for the Caribbean with a 3.7 GPA, decent ECs and a TBD MCAT!

 

[candbgirl]

I don’t understand any of it well but SGU Has withdrawn from the accrediting agency. Effective 2024 SGU students won’t be eligible to take the steps or apply for residencies. So with this and what @KnightDoc shared SGU isn’t a good choice.

 

[depressed_doctor]

I don’t understand any of it well but SGU Has withdrawn from the accrediting agency. Effective 2024 SGU students won’t be eligible to take the steps or apply for residencies. So with this and what @KnightDoc shared SGU isn’t a good choice.

What?! Accreditation in where? In specific states? Or worldwide?

Also just accepted my MPH offer. Super excited! I feel confident and good about my decision 🙂

 

[KnightDoc]

What?! Accreditation in where? In specific states? Or worldwide?

Also just accepted my MPH offer. Super excited! I feel confident and good about my decision 🙂

No one is accredited world wide. Schools have to be accredited in their jurisdictions. American schools are accredited by LCME. You can go onto the SGU website and read all about what's going on with its accreditation in Grenada. Again, I do not believe there is any way either Grenada or the school's investors will allow their cash cow to away over an accreditation issue.