Need Advice. What is the best route for me?

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I just left a competitive top ranked Nursing program because it wasn't what I thought it would be. I decided this notable profession was not for me, because I did not like the nursing process. I like the medical model more and would like to practice medicine, not Nursing. I couldn't see myself give people sponge baths, inserting catheters, etc but I could see myself diagnosing patients, treatment plans, conducting research, etc. So I left and I am happy. However, I now have to look for another major. I thought about Medical Laboratory Science to become a Medical Technologist, because it is not only interesting to me but it also fulfills pre-reqs for P.A. school, med school, etc. However, some people say do not choose this major if you want to go solely to P.A. school or med school because this major is a 'GPA dropper'. Plus, people tell me the pay sucks so if I don't get into P.A. or Med school I am stuck with a career that although I like, but doesn't pay too well. Any advice?
 
If you're genuinely interested in the classes in lab sciences major, then do it. Unless you are trying to graduate in a certain amount of time, you can choose any major and add in the pre reqs. A bio major is sufficient.
 
You are still going to have to learn to insert catheters and draw blood like nurses do, in medical school and in PA school. Can you imagine if there is a serious emergency and the only person around is a doctor, and he or she can't do these things? All of the medical schools I interviewed at told us that these were some of the first things students learn.

I mean I didn't want to be a Nurse where those are mostly the things they do on the job. I don't want to just insert catheters, take BPs, sponge bathing, etc. I want to do more than that.
 
You are still going to have to learn to insert catheters and draw blood like nurses do, in medical school and in PA school. Can you imagine if there is a serious emergency and the only person around is a doctor, and he or she can't do these things? All of the medical schools I interviewed at told us that these were some of the first things students learn.

And the "Nursing diagnoses" I wasn't too fond of either. First, RNs don't diagnose. Second, their diagnoses are things like "at risk for pain" or "is in distress" not "suffering from [insert malignancy here]. I like the medical science of things and wanted to do more.
 
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If you like the course work in that major, do it. That said, I believe strongly it's in most pre meds best interest to major in something they enjoy and will allow them to do well on their pre reqs and mcat. Idk much about this major to be honest, but ultimately I don't think you can go too far wrong either way. I don't see why, if you know you want pa or md school, you're concerned with getting a science major which will allow you to be employed upon graduation.
 
Matrix,

I've been an MLT (med lab tech) for 3.5 years. PM if you would like to know more about the MLS field. In a nutshell, pay's not that terrible (you'll start off making more than the median wage, depends where you live), you will have to learn how to draw blood (phlebotomy), you can work in I believe 47 (+/-) states with just the national certification (some require both national and state certification), and there's a shortage of med techs so finding a job might be simple (depending on your location). PM me for more info. I know @wholeheartedly is also a medical technologist as well. He/She's been a med tech for a lot longer than I have and can provide you more information than I have. I believe she also has a bachelor's in medical technology. Thanks!
 
Oh my goodness. It’s goid you got out of nursing since you think so lowly of what nurses do on a daily basis.

I don't think of them low, lol. What makes you say so? I was only there for one month, and I did enjoy the education. I apologize if that is what you think I meant. I have the upmost respect for Nurses. The Professors I have had were absolutely incredible, and wanted to see us succeed. I really did like them. The Nursing diagnoses in fact weren't challenging. It was basic things like "In distress." If you honestly believe you drew that preposterous conclusion based on that one sentence then good luck on the CARS
 
Well if you made your decision to withdraw from nursing after one month I think you are the one who needs to take a step back. How could you know after a month nursing isn’t for you? How do you know medicine is? I stand by my statement. It’s good you got out of nursing. But I’m not sure medicine is for you either. Lots of yucky work there too. You’ll be very surprised it’s not all glory and fabulous diagnoses.
 
How could you know after a month nursing isn’t for you?
I learned quickly during only one month of Nursing that it wasn't going to work out. Prior towards admission and entrance to the Nursing program, I debated between Medicine and Nursing. I decided to pursue Nursing because I believed that Nursing would be a good occupation to enter with excellent job stability and with diverse specializations, and I had a strong passion for medical science. I also pursued this career (as stated in the previous sentence) due to job security. I knew that once if I was to apply to medical school (and hopefully enter a Pathology residency after graduation) and one day if be rejected, I would have a comfortable salary to live off of as a backup. However, as we learned throughout the beginning of the curriculum the fundamental roles of Nurses along with the type of care they provide I decided my interests did not belong in this type of field. Of course I want to be involved in patient care; however, I did not want to holistically only treat the illness. I wanted to treat the disease, and learn more about the disease process along with what type of advancements in medical research can help aid diagnosis and treatment of disease.

How do you know medicine is?
As stated previously, I was in a toss-up between Nursing and Medicine. I know medicine is for me because I have a more affinity for the medical model, not the Nursing model. I will also add I was not aware of a Nursing model prior to entrance. I falsely believed that all healthcare professions involved in direct and non-direct patient care incorporate only the medical model in their practice; however, once we began learning the Nursing model and getting more heavily involved in the roles they execute I could not see myself doing this.

I stand by my statement.
And what exactly was your statement besides accusing me of disparaging the Nursing profession? I even acknowledged in my original post that Nursing is a notable profession. Additionally, I am happy I left Nursing school and pursuing a more medical science based profession.

But I’m not sure medicine is for you either.
And you aren't the one to be making that decision. Calm your ego and learn to not only read, but also spell correctly. Your words are all over the place.

You’ll be very surprised it’s not all glory and fabulous diagnoses.
And what exactly does this mean? Did you really go through Medical School? If so, I would expect a competent and board certified Physician to have excellent communication skills, as well as language proficiency. You may be hard to work with in the healthcare team.
 
Do not choose a vocational major if your goal is to be a physician.

I need a UG major though, and Clinical Lab seems like a good idea because it not only satisfies all of the pre-requisite courses for medical school, and also has good job prospects. Do you have something else in mind? I realize that as an MT you won't be directly working with patients (other then drawing blood) and that admission committee would want something more in-depth, such as ex: EMT, volunteering, etc. which I'd do.
 
I need a UG major though, and Clinical Lab seems like a good idea because it not only satisfies all of the pre-requisite courses for medical school, and also has good job prospects. Do you have something else in mind? I realize that as an MT you won't be directly working with patients (other then drawing blood) and that admission committee would want something more in-depth, such as ex: EMT, volunteering, etc. which I'd do.
As an independent factor, allied health majors fare poorly as applicants to medical school.
Many evaluators view these majors as less rigorous.
 
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As an independent factor, allied health majors fare poorly as applicants to medical.
Many evaluators view these majors as less rigorous.

I was advised by the pre-med advisor at my University that the major you choose for medical school wouldn't be looked down unfavorably by the admissions committee. The advisor also told me that non-science majors (and even less science-based rigorous majors) such as Music have high admission acceptance rates because the committee views them as unique and interesting. I have seen it consistently on SDN that the major you select isn't a huge factor in the application process, and most of it comes from your MCAT score, letters of recommendation, as well as cumulative and science GPA, as well as research and volunteering. How can a less rigorous major such as Music, (and I do know some English majors) look favorable to the committee if the major they selected itself isn't rigorous?
 
I was advised by the pre-med advisor at my University that the major you choose for medical school wouldn't be looked down unfavorably by the admissions committee. The advisor also told me that non-science majors (and even less science-based rigorous majors) such as Music have high admission acceptance rates because the committee views them as unique and interesting. I have seen it consistently on SDN that the major you select isn't a huge factor in the application process, and most of it comes from your MCAT score, letters of recommendation, as well as cumulative and science GPA, as well as research and volunteering. How can a less rigorous major such as Music, (and I do know some English majors) look favorable to the committee if the major they selected itself isn't rigorous?

179 medical schools in the US. Each of them have many evaluators and sometimes different opinions.

On average though, I remember seeing these vocational type majors have the lowest acceptance rates based on that AAMC chart.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I was advised by the pre-med advisor at my University that the major you choose for medical school wouldn't be looked down unfavorably by the admissions committee. The advisor also told me that non-science majors (and even less science-based rigorous majors) such as Music have high admission acceptance rates because the committee views them as unique and interesting. I have seen it consistently on SDN that the major you select isn't a huge factor in the application process, and most of it comes from your MCAT score, letters of recommendation, as well as cumulative and science GPA, as well as research and volunteering. How can a less rigorous major such as Music, (and I do know some English majors) look favorable to the committee if the major they selected itself isn't rigorous?
There is no preference for any particular major.
Non-science majors who do well in science classes and the MCAT are viewed favorably.
Sadly, allied health majors do less well and are viewed askance by some evaluators.
Vocational majors are generally viewed to be less rigorous.
 
There is no preference for any particular major.
Non-science majors who do well in science classes and the MCAT are viewed favorably.
Sadly, allied health majors do less well and are viewed askance by some evaluators.
Vocational majors are generally viewed to be less rigorous.

Oh ok, I see now.

Thank you
 
So as noted above, I'm an MLS (through round about fashion after my initial bachelors) and have been working for about a decade in the field. I plan to apply to medical school, though I did this degree with the intention of getting a job and didn't decide for sure on medical school until I already was in the MLS program.

I've mostly enjoyed my time in the field. I did my clinical internship in a small rural hospital in my hometown, worked the blood bank for a few years at a large tertiary academic type place, then the core lab there, then got promoted to a position evaluating new assays, anaylers, and some clinical research on diagnostics. I have learned a TON working there. I also had the opportunity to teach students, techs, residents, and fellows which I enjoyed. Now I'm back in my hometown at a rural clinic lab. It's not where I want to stay as there's a lot of downtime and my two coworkers don't really hold themselves to a high standard.

If I hadn't made the idiotic decision to also go to grad school for Epidemiology while I worked, I would've been quite comfortable financialy on my income (expensive, but I love every minute of it). My income is less than an RN but more than my friends with just bio degrees. I was able to own my own home by myself on that income. I have former colleagues that are regularly able to take nice trips and do fun stuff.

As for the allied health folks getting into medical school, based on what our SDN adcom folks like @gyngyn and @LizzyM have said, this is definitely a concern. Certain allied health programs have less rigorous science courses, like light versions of bio and chemistry, that don't compare well to the courses science majors take in terms of depth and difficulty. A good friend who graduated with a bio degree with me went back to get her RN and they had to take another microbiology class (we'd taken one for or bio degrees). The nursing students were able to take a micro class in the nutrition dept and most took that one because it was an easy A. She said it was a joke.

So to some extent that's understandable. I disagree with that logic for the MLS degree though. Every program I'm aware of requires you to take the same biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, biochem, and physics that the science majors take, not some watered down version. So I don't really get how we get boxed into that thinking. I felt MLS specific courses were as difficult or more difficult (in different ways) than my upper division bio electives. But it is a perception you'll have to contend with at some places.

Having said all of that, the medical schools where I did my MLS degree and in the state where I worked looked very favorably on the MLS grads according to folks on their respective admissions committees, esp if you have a year or more work experience in the field. They've had good success with those students and are familiar with the rigor of their programs. I've known quite a few MLS folks who went to medical school (and PA school) and were glad they took the route they did and felt it gave them a big leg up for certain parts of their curriculum.

Finally, if you really want to do this so you have some job security or a backup plan, but are concerned about the perception issue, you can always do a 4+1 type program where you get a BS in Biology taking MLS relevant electives like microbiology, virology, immunology, biochem, molecular biology, or histology, then complete your remaining courses and clinical practicum in your +1 year. That takes a bit of planning to get the timing right, but is doable. Or just double major like some classmates did. There was a lot of bio or chem majors plus CLS major with psych minors in my class.
 
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What subjects do you love and would excel in? English? Bio? History? The Classics?
It doesn't matter which; just choose the one that you love and will get
A's in, and then include the premed prereqs.

You don't need to justify why you prefer becoming a physician over becoming a nurse. You do you.
 
So as noted above, I'm an MLS (through round about fashion after my initial bachelors) and have been working for about a decade in the field. I plan to apply to medical school, though I did this degree with the intention of getting a job and didn't decide for sure on medical school until I already was in the MLS program.

I've mostly enjoyed my time in the field. I did my clinical internship in a small rural hospital in my hometown, worked the blood bank for a few years at a large tertiary academic type place, then the core lab there, then got promoted to a position evaluating new assays, anaylers, and some clinical research on diagnostics. I have learned a TON working there. I also had the opportunity to teach students, techs, residents, and fellows which I enjoyed. Now I'm back in my hometown at a rural clinic lab. It's not where I want to stay as there's a lot of downtime and my two coworkers don't really hold themselves to a high standard.

If I hadn't made the idiotic decision to also go to grad school for Epidemiology while I worked, I would've been quite comfortable financialy on my income (expensive, but I love every minute of it). My income is less than an RN but more than my friends with just bio degrees. I was able to own my own home by myself on that income. I have former colleagues that are regularly able to take nice trips and do fun stuff.

As for the allied health folks getting into medical school, based on what our SDN adcom folks like @gyngyn and @LizzyM have said, this is definitely a concern. Certain allied health programs have less rigorous science courses, like light versions of bio and chemistry, that don't compare well to the courses science majors take in terms of depth and difficulty. A good friend who graduated with a bio degree with me went back to get her RN and they had to take another microbiology class (we'd taken one for or bio degrees). The nursing students were able to take a micro class in the nutrition dept and most took that one because it was an easy A. She said it was a joke.

So to some extent that's understandable. I disagree with that logic for the MLS degree though. Every program I'm aware of requires you to take the same biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, biochem, and physics that the science majors take, not some watered down version. So I don't really get how we get boxed into that thinking. I felt MLS specific courses were as difficult or more difficult (in different ways) than my upper division bio electives. But it is a perception you'll have to contend with at some places.

Having said all of that, the medical schools where I did my MLS degree and in the state where I worked looked very favorably on the MLS grads according to folks on their respective admissions committees, esp if you have a year or more work experience in the field. They've had good success with those students and are familiar with the rigor of their programs. I've known quite a few MLS folks who went to medical school (and PA school) and were glad they took the route they did and felt it gave them a big leg up for certain parts of their curriculum.

Finally, if you really want to do this so you have some job security or a backup plan, but are concerned about the perception issue, you can always do a 4+1 type program where you get a BS in Biology taking MLS relevant electives like microbiology, virology, immunology, biochem, molecular biology, or histology, then complete your remaining courses and clinical practicum in your +1 year. That takes a bit of planning to get the timing right, but is doable. Or just double major like some classmates did. There was a lot of bio or chem majors plus CLS major with psych minors in my class.

Thank you! I really do like CLS, and would rather major in this degree because I find it super interesting. When I was in my RN classes, we did take water down classes of science classes I could tell because I'm a super science nerd and study it on my own. For our Chem class form example, we didn't even learn D or F orbitals, lol.

Anyway, at my school for MLS, we have to take the full organic chemistry sequence, biochemistry, all gen Chems. Precaculus, statistics, microbiology, medical microbiology, physics, etc in a 3+1 program. The only watered down version of science courses is the Physids one (at my school). Yes, it does concern me about the perception. A field I like I'm afraid will hold me back. Just out or curiosity @gyngyn do PA schools view unfavorable of MLS majors as well?
 
As stated previously, I was in a toss-up between Nursing and Medicine. I know medicine is for me because I have a more affinity for the medical model, not the Nursing model. I will also add I was not aware of a Nursing model prior to entrance. I falsely believed that all healthcare professions involved in direct and non-direct patient care incorporate only the medical model in their practice; however, once we began learning the Nursing model and getting more heavily involved in the roles they execute I could not see myself doing this.
You realize that the nursing process and nursing diagnoses are a bunch of fluff BS things that are taught in school to make nursing look more science-y, but that nobody uses in real life, right?

The only nurses I know of that use nursing diagnoses seriously in their day to day work are case managers.
 
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I need a UG major though, and Clinical Lab seems like a good idea because it not only satisfies all of the pre-requisite courses for medical school, and also has good job prospects. Do you have something else in mind? I realize that as an MT you won't be directly working with patients (other then drawing blood) and that admission committee would want something more in-depth, such as ex: EMT, volunteering, etc. which I'd do.


The issue is that the coursework for vocational majors is often not "academic enough," which is why many do poorly on the MCAT. It's better to choose an academic major that you will do well in, (english, bio, chem, history, classics, philosophy, etc). Since you're concerned about having a clinical lab Plan B, then maybe being a biochem major may be best and perhaps include some clinical lab courses as well.

In my opinion, you're going to soon learn whether you have the chops as a premed within the first semester or two. If you do, then having a Plan B becomes less necessary. If you falter and realize that your GPA will be weak for med school, then proceed with your clinical lab goals.
 
You realize that the nursing process and nursing diagnoses are a bunch of fluff BS things that are taught in school to make nursing look more science-y, but that nobody uses in real life, right? I couldn't even tell you what the nursing process is at this point... bet most of my coworkers couldn't either.

The only nurses I know of that use nursing diagnoses seriously in their day to day work are case managers.

Lol on point
 
The issue is that the coursework for vocational majors is often not "academic enough," which is why many do poorly on the MCAT. It's better to choose an academic major that you will do well in, (english, bio, chem, history, classics, philosophy, etc). Since you're concerned about having a clinical lab Plan B, then maybe being a biochem major may be best and perhaps include some clinical lab courses as well.

In my opinion, you're going to soon learn whether you have the chops as a premed within the first semester or two. If you do, then having a Plan B becomes less necessary. If you falter and realize that your GPA will be weak for med school, then proceed with your clinical lab goals.

I think I'm in luck at the school I go at. We don't take any of the watered down versions of the science courses compared to pre-meds actually. We take both orgos, biochemistry, etc. all of them. The only watered down version is Physics.
 
My personal opinion is if you MUST be in the healthcare field, and you can't think of any other field in which you want to work, even if it means not being a doctor and having some other career, CLS is probably an appropriate major. If you're working toward med school, make sure you work hard to get a solid MCAT and GPAs, as CLS major applicants tended to have poorer mean scores and GPAs overall. See Specialized Health Sciences https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstablea17.pdf here for more info there on the allopathic side of things. This may also play in to the perceived lack of rigor that gyngyn was talking about.

On the bright side, if you match up with the matriculant GPA and MCAT in any major, you should be ok. Ultimately, pick the major you will enjoy most and do the best you can in every course you take.

Also I can't let this go...

How can a less rigorous major such as Music, (and I do know some English majors) look favorable to the committee if the major they selected itself isn't rigorous?

Don't take this mini-rant personal, but tread carefully with this statement and thought process. Some of us pre-med music majors hear this quite often. We get very defensive about our field of study, because it is judged by people who don't live through it and experience the mental and emotional rigor associated with it. Remember, we take the same pre-reqs all applicants take, and are expected to excel to a similar degree.

Just because a field of study is based more around the subjective experience does not make it objectively less rigorous. Every art has its own objective and subjective realities, including medicine. 😉

EDIT: Just an FYI, I can't speak honestly about other humanities, only music.
 
How can a less rigorous major such as Music, (and I do know some English majors) look favorable to the committee if the major they selected itself isn't rigorous?


Music is a rigorous major. English is a rigorous major. They are considered to be academic majors (as well as Spanish, French, history, The Classics, philosophy, bio, chem, math, physics, and other liberal arts majors).

You may be thinking of these majors in terms of lower division coursework. Upper division coursework is rigorous and demanding. To do well in them, critical thinking skills and analytical skills are developed and strengthened, which help with taking the MCAT.
 
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