Need Advice

[MRH64]

Hello SDN,

I'm feeling a little down on myself and just wondering what others would recommend, or if anyone has had the same experience.

I currently have a BS in Exercise Science, but have an average Cum GPA (2.9) and Pre-Req GPA (2.8). I know how competitive DPT school is so I decided to not apply right away, and retake a few classes at a local CC. I decided to retake A&P but ended up having a below average teacher, who I feel didn't know well enough to be teaching this class. I ended up getting a C... Again...

I'm not a terrible student, I just had low motivation as an early undergrad, and didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. I found PT late in my college career and rushed to pack in my Pre-Reqs during summers and overloading my late year semesters, (btw if anyone is thinking of doing that, I do not recommend it). So my grades were not as high as I could have had them.

I guess my question is, do I keep trying to improve pre-req's or just think about doing something else. I'm just feeling discouraged by getting a repeating grade. Part of me feels I'm wasting a lot of time climbing this ladder of becoming a DPT especially since I'm not moving forward in my own eyes.

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[starrsgirl]

How many of the pre reqs do you have finished? I think that will factor heavily in my advice to you. If you have finished all the pre reqs already, you are going to have a tough road. It's not impossible, but it will be tough. If you've only done A&P and not much else, it will be easier.

If you have already taken all the pre reqs somewhat recently (i.e. you aren't 10 years out from them), I think your best bet is to get enrolled full time in a 4 year university in a type of post-bac program. (it doesn't have to actually be called a post bac program or anything...you can make your own). Most people can get by on just retaking some community college pre reqs a few at a time to boost their gpa, but you may be passed that point. The schools are going to worry you can't handle a rigorous load. So again, my advice is go full time for a year. If you start in January, you could get 2 semesters in before the next cycle. I would retake everything you need to. So say Chem I/II, A&P I/II, Physics I/II and/or more advanced classes that your schools will accept. In addition to being a full time student (high credit load), I would consistently put in some serious observation hours for the next 2 semesters. This way, you will demonstrate you can handle a lot of high level courses with a busy schedule.

If you don't have many of the pre reqs done, I think you can be a little less ambitious. Maybe work 1/2 time and take pre reqs 1/2 time. (is A&P your only C?) Your goal with a low GPA is to get "As on top...ie A's on every retake you can before applying"

It worries me that you struggled when you overloaded your later semesters. It's one thing to have some bad semesters, but another to have bad semesters in required PT courses. The first year of PT school is a nightmare of overloaded science courses each many many times harder than an undergrad course. So keep that in mind when you evaluate your options.

A final option is go work for a few years, then come back to school at a later point. Older bad grades tend to be a bit more forgivable if you nail the pre reqs on the later retake.

 

[MRH64]

How many of the pre reqs do you have finished? I think that will factor heavily in my advice to you. If you have finished all the pre reqs already, you are going to have a tough road. It's not impossible, but it will be tough. If you've only done A&P and not much else, it will be easier.

If you have already taken all the pre reqs somewhat recently (i.e. you aren't 10 years out from them), I think your best bet is to get enrolled full time in a 4 year university in a type of post-bac program. (it doesn't have to actually be called a post bac program or anything...you can make your own). Most people can get by on just retaking some community college pre reqs a few at a time to boost their gpa, but you may be passed that point. The schools are going to worry you can't handle a rigorous load. So again, my advice is go full time for a year. If you start in January, you could get 2 semesters in before the next cycle. I would retake everything you need to. So say Chem I/II, A&P I/II, Physics I/II and/or more advanced classes that your schools will accept. In addition to being a full time student (high credit load), I would consistently put in some serious observation hours for the next 2 semesters. This way, you will demonstrate you can handle a lot of high level courses with a busy schedule.

If you don't have many of the pre reqs done, I think you can be a little less ambitious. Maybe work 1/2 time and take pre reqs 1/2 time. (is A&P your only C?) Your goal with a low GPA is to get "As on top...ie A's on every retake you can before applying"

It worries me that you struggled when you overloaded your later semesters. It's one thing to have some bad semesters, but another to have bad semesters in required PT courses. The first year of PT school is a nightmare of overloaded science courses each many many times harder than an undergrad course. So keep that in mind when you evaluate your options.

A final option is go work for a few years, then come back to school at a later point. Older bad grades tend to be a bit more forgivable if you nail the pre reqs on the later retake.

If you look at general Pre-Reqs that are common of every DPT program

Physics I&II - Both C's (at my university my lab grade and lecture were not combined. If you combined them I would have Bs in both physics, but I don't know how a program would calculate that)
Chem - B & C
A&P I&II - Both C's
BIOL I&II - B & C.
Psychologies - A, B & B

Something I've really tried to do is look for schools that sub other classes for core science. For example, St. Augustine replaces a physics with Biomechanics which I have a B in. They sub a few other things as well.

As for observation hours, I currently have 650 hours in 3 settings logged. Which I did during my last 1.5 years as an undergrad.

I'm willing to listen to any type of options others have experienced or done themselves. Does going post-bac have any benefits compared to doing certain classes at a time?

 

[starrsgirl]

Ok, so at a minimum, I recommend retaking both physics, both a&P and definitely the Chemistry with a C (but depending on how you feel with the material, may need to retake both), and the Biology. Yes, theoretically, you can get by with a C in a pre req, but your overall pre req spread is very low. A school can forgive a C if you have mostly As in everything else. My opinion is you just have too many Bs, so you will need to redo all the classes with Cs in them to get on a competitive level. And you need to get straight As on the retakes. That will also help your cum GPA quite a bit. But you are looking at a FULL 2 semesters of school work to get ready....or much longer if you spread those classes out. A good goal to shoot for on pre req GPA is a 3.4 or higher...obviously takes a bunch of As to do that.

I was in your boat when I got ready to apply (the big exception being my pre reqs were all very old....worse grades that you but quite a few years past). If you just had 1-2 classes to retake, sure you could take those on their own and really focus on the grade. Because you have so many to retake, I think it will be a big red flag to take each of those on their own. Schools will wonder why you had to spread them out so much. Plus it would take you forever to retake all of those one at a time. You need to show schools that you can handle a high science workload and get great grades with a full time heavy course load. From what you've shared, your ability to do so isn't certain.

A "post bac" program just means you are going to take all of those courses in a very short time (usually people do it in a year). You might want to consider trying to do it in the spring and then summer semesters to be ready for next cycle. If you do it in the spring and then fall, you won't have those grades to make application deadlines for most schools in the next cycle.

The first time I applied, I had retaken a few courses that I got Cs in. I didn't get in and the biggest thing I heard from schools was they weren't sure I could handle the heavy DPT course load. To prepare for the second application cycle, I did 1 intense semester with a ton of credit hours and all heavy science courses. (I didn't have as many pre preqs to retake as you do). I got straight As in all those science courses and that assured the schools I could handle the load.

Another important thing you sound like you need is the confidence that you CAN do well in all those tough courses at the same time. I really gained that confidence in my crazy overloaded semester. I'm not sure I would have handled the first year stress of my DPT program as well had I not kicked butt in that very tough "post bac" semester.

I think you could definitely take the courses at a community college or 4 year....but sometimes the 4 year schools are set up a bit better to squeeze all those pre reqs into 2 semesters. (i.e. they are more used to post bac setups)

 

[starrsgirl]

Ok, so at a minimum, I recommend retaking both physics, both a&P and definitely the Chemistry with a C (but depending on how you feel with the material, may need to retake both), and the Biology. Yes, theoretically, you can get by with a C in a pre req, but your overall pre req spread is very low. A school can forgive a C if you have mostly As in everything else. My opinion is you just have too many Bs, so you will need to redo all the classes with Cs in them to get on a competitive level. And you need to get straight As on the retakes. That will also help your cum GPA quite a bit. But you are looking at a FULL 2 semesters of school work to get ready....or much longer if you spread those classes out. A good goal to shoot for on pre req GPA is a 3.4 or higher...obviously takes a bunch of As to do that.

I was in your boat when I got ready to apply (the big exception being my pre reqs were all very old....worse grades that you but quite a few years past). If you just had 1-2 classes to retake, sure you could take those on their own and really focus on the grade. Because you have so many to retake, I think it will be a big red flag to take each of those on their own. Schools will wonder why you had to spread them out so much. Plus it would take you forever to retake all of those one at a time. You need to show schools that you can handle a high science workload and get great grades with a full time heavy course load. From what you've shared, your ability to do so isn't certain.

A "post bac" program just means you are going to take all of those courses in a very short time (usually people do it in a year). You might want to consider trying to do it in the spring and then summer semesters to be ready for next cycle. If you do it in the spring and then fall, you won't have those grades to make application deadlines for most schools in the next cycle.

The first time I applied, I had retaken a few courses that I got Cs in. I didn't get in and the biggest thing I heard from schools was they weren't sure I could handle the heavy DPT course load. To prepare for the second application cycle, I did 1 intense semester with a ton of credit hours and all heavy science courses. (I didn't have as many pre preqs to retake as you do). I got straight As in all those science courses and that assured the schools I could handle the load.

Another important thing you sound like you need is the confidence that you CAN do well in all those tough courses at the same time. I really gained that confidence in my crazy overloaded semester. I'm not sure I would have handled the first year stress of my DPT program as well had I not kicked butt in that very tough "post bac" semester.

I think you could definitely take the courses at a community college or 4 year....but sometimes the 4 year schools are set up a bit better to squeeze all those pre reqs into 2 semesters. (i.e. they are more used to post bac setups)

 

[jjjDPT]

That's a long and expensive road, my friend. PT as a career is already a poor return on investment, let alone retaking a lot of classes. There are many careers out there. If you really like working in a PT setting, you could just get your CSCS and work as a trainer/coach as part of a sports clinic. You could start a personal training business. You can get a business degree online while you're working. There's options.

I guess what I'm saying is that you are not stuck. If it makes you feel any better, I felt stuck even after I was accepted to PT school. It is so expensive for how much you are likely to make that I was still only 50% sure that's what I wanted to do.

 

[MRH64]

Expenses is one of the biggest things holding me back, because most schools don't provide any type of grants or financial aid for general courses without pursuing a degree there. At this point I'm really weighing the pros and cons of continuing down this road.

My biggest concern is with an Exercise Science degree, my options are limited and the wages have to be taken into consideration even when being passionate about a career path. I almost feel like I have to continue with schooling, which I definitely want to do. I have invested a lot of time and money into PT, and feel at a loss if I don't continue that way. But what I've done so far is just the tip of the iceberg.

A business degree is prob my next thought above all other choices. Just all of this is very overwhelming at the moment because of the options in front of me.

 

[MRH64]

And does anyone have a rough estimate of how much Post-Bac programs usually cost? I know the cost is definitely higher than your typical credit price.

 

[Tc_DPT]

Have you considered PTA school? Honestly I've done the math for friends and for the total cost of a program, less time in school and working sooner etc with the salary difference it works out a LOT better in your favor. I know some people really don't like the idea of having to be supervised/signed off on and not being able to make decisions/have as much freedom to assess but for someone in your position if you really like this field it may be a simpler, more economic option.

 

[starrsgirl]

Don't limit yourself to a set in stone "post bac" program. I just used that term to refer to taking a year of full time courses that are all heavy sciences. So the cost will be 1 year of tuition at your local university. Shop around for that one. Also realize, depending on the school, sometimes it's tough to get into all the classes you need so consider that as a factor.

 

[okramango]

I would highly recommend doing all your retakes at a CC to save a ton of money. I went full time to a CC for a year and was able to get all of my science prereqs done for a tiny fraction of what it would have cost at a 4-year university.

 

[jjjDPT]

Have you considered PTA school? Honestly I've done the math for friends and for the total cost of a program, less time in school and working sooner etc with the salary difference it works out a LOT better in your favor. I know some people really don't like the idea of having to be supervised/signed off on and not being able to make decisions/have as much freedom to assess but for someone in your position if you really like this field it may be a simpler, more economic option.

I have friends who were accepted to great DPT programs but instead chose PTA because of the cost-benefit factors. You will be a stronger job applicant with an Ex Science BS degree as well. PTA's can make really good money, especially as a traveler PTA!