Need Help: Bad team member/Professionalism

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DrMaccoman

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Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.
 
It may help to think a bit more about it. You said you can be condescending sometimes, but why? Do you feel a lack of confidence in your own knowledge and talk down to your peers to boost yourself up? Or are you super confident and find it hard to be patient when you don't think people know as much as you?

Do you think that you are monopolizing the faculty's time/attention, or was it something you never thought of before evals? Do you feel like you need extra attention because you're struggling? Or do you try to steer things because you think your classmates' questions aren't as worthwhile?
 
Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.

It seems like stoic and neurotic/condescending are on opposite ends of the spectrum. But to answer your question...

1. Don't be condescending.

2. Don't be neurotic.

3. If you don't know why you come off this way (though it sounds as though you do), ask them. Don't be afraid to get feedback. "Hey guys. I saw our peer evals, and I really want to improve. Can you help me understand how I can be better to work with?"

4. Remaining cool under stress and treating people poorly (condescension) when you are stressed are two different problems. Plenty of people don't handle stress well but don't become toxic. I'd spend some time looking at why you react that way to stress.

5. To remain cool under stress, understand that you can only do one thing at a time. Forget about everything but that one thing. Perhaps counseling (which I would strongly recommend given what you said) or even commercial products such as a mindfulness meditation program (headspace or others) could help you.

6. For good relationships, talk to people as equals. If you disagree on something in a group, say "I don't understand this part of your answer. Can you explain to me what I'm missing?" If they're still wrong, keep the focus on yourself (verbally): "ok, I get that. But what doesn't make sense to me is x." Hear them out. They'll return the favor, and you end up teaching each other by going through the full logic of your response. Alternately, explain your answer by saying something like "this is why I thought A was the right answer. Can you explain to me what I'm missing?"

7. Ask how their weekend was. How their dog is. Whatever. Care about them genuinely, for more than their status as a group member.

Good luck.
 
Oftentimes I go to the professors to ask for help because when I ask my peers if they know what structure something is on our cadaver, they often say that they don't know.

I am also the youngest in the group and one noticeable incident occured when we were talking about politics of the early 1990s/late 1980s and I mentioned something along the lines of "yeah that was a time before we were born." It slipped my mind that while I am 21, most of my peers are more in their mid 20s.

To be fair, I do sort of think that I have a better grasp of the material than my peers (I've been getting 90+ on the exams/practicals). However, I don't think i'm smarter than they are., but i've invested more time in learning about the subject. I sort of thought that getting faculty to come and help explain the structures would be beneficial for the whole group since when the faculty comes he/she teaches the whole group (though I often try to direct some of the questions to specific parts of our cadaver). And when the faculty leave, I do try to ask if anyone wants me to repeat anything the faculty mentioned if they were too far to see what the faculty was pointing at in the cadaver.

One thing that I definitely noticecd that I did was during the week before our module exam, I would go to the prosector's body quite often to ask the prosector questions. Unfortunately this may have been at the expense at working with my group.
 
It sounds to me like you have a large locus of control. That's fine, but I'd advise trying to be a little more empathetic when you interact with people. It can come across as manipulative even when you're earnestly trying to help. Again, just my take based on the above, but it sounds like you're trying to be a shepherd. People don't like being treated like sheep.
 
Speaking as someone who had to deal with similar issues - I would say two things:

1. You're already on the right track if you are serious about addressing the issues brought up in the evals. Many people aren't even able to internalize that there is a problem.

2. Addressing the root of your unique issues is difficult, and may take a very long time. Age is certainly relevant, since experience (including what you're going through now) will help. My suggestion: take a holiday from speaking. Try to spend a day, or a week, without speaking unless spoken to in scheduled educational activities. If you are asked a question, give a straightforward, direct reply, and resist the urge to expound further on the topic. Don't offer your help. Give aid if asked.

While this may seem drastic (and it is quite hard to do), taking this action (rather than just thinking about it or brooding over it) will allow you to observe how your peers interact with each other and with faculty, and perhaps contrast with your own speech/behavior.

You might consider seeking out a faculty member (or upper classmate) who you trust to discuss this as well, but they may not see what other are seeing.

Lastly, I would highly recommend seeing a psychotherapist who can help guide you over time as you address these issues.

Good luck.
 
You can always ask your group why they gave you bad evals. As long as you make it clear that you're not upset about it and genuinely want to know why they thought you were hard to work with so you can fix it for the future, I'd think at least one or two of them would be up front about it. Personally, I'd have a lot more respect for someone that respectfully asked me to help them improve themselves, especially if it's something you don't even realize you're doing.
 
Exactly - ASK for help. If the opportunity arises, state that your peer feedback showed that you need to make some big changes and that you appreciate that input and are trying to change.

Sounds to me like maybe you've always been "the smart kid" and got a lot of attention for being precocious. And probably also that you've generally been smarter than your colleagues -- possibly even still. Well - that'll blow up on you here unless you can tamp down that tendency to display how smart you are. Believe me, your colleagues are smart enough to have done the math. They know you're younger and know what that implies. All the more reason to ask them for help now, even where you don't think you need it.
 
Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.
Lighten up maybe?
Stop acting a garbage can with eye balls maybe?
 
Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.

My advice is to not let it bother you and move on. It will have minimal, if any impact on your career. What a joke medical education has become. Peer evaluations? Seriously? This is the result of the different-is-always-better attitude of progressive administrative attitudes in education. When you're learning, you need to be taught and evaluated by an actual teacher, not your peer. You can discuss things with peers when you are an expert.

I have an idea, why don't we let 12 year olds teach themselves sex ed? Further, how about we take away all professionally prepared materials and let them learn from each other's opinions and the internet. What could possibly go wrong? After all, higher education has already determined that the direct instruction of and evaluation by an experienced educator with perspective is totally unreasonable.

Bottom line, suck it up. Your classmates are self-righteous tools to actually give you a negative eval. You only have to deal with it for a few short years, then never again and then you can fight it without fear of academic reprisal if you so choose.
 
Exactly - ASK for help. If the opportunity arises, state that your peer feedback showed that you need to make some big changes and that you appreciate that input and are trying to change.

Sounds to me like maybe you've always been "the smart kid" and got a lot of attention for being precocious. And probably also that you've generally been smarter than your colleagues -- possibly even still. Well - that'll blow up on you here unless you can tamp down that tendency to display how smart you are. Believe me, your colleagues are smart enough to have done the math. They know you're younger and know what that implies. All the more reason to ask them for help now, even where you don't think you need it.

I agree w/ this, with the addition of saying, perhaps try to find a person or two on your team with whom you can relate and trust. If you are already on the downside of the team, well, people may tend to follow suit with the others or another dominant person there. It does happen at times. People don't want to see or admit their influence as being somehow malicious, but, again, it happens as people vie for attention, acceptance, recognition, whatever. If, however, you know one or two others that are good-natured, fair, and not 'easy followers'--that is, they stand back and make up their own minds without the need or influence of comments from the peanut gallery or Breakfast Club--they could help you. Example, "D. Mac, you're doing it again." given w/ a smile.

I love this Robert Burns quote:

"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!."
Not saying you are a louse or anything. 🙂
 
Lighten up maybe?
Stop acting a garbage can with eye balls maybe?
To be fair: these are peer evaluations. And they're not exactly the most appropriate measures of your performance.

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Are you in pre clinical years still?

Seems odd to have peer review that soon.
 
Yup. We do peer evals for all of our group activities, including Gross.
 
Bottom line, suck it up. Your classmates are self-righteous tools to actually give you a negative eval. You only have to deal with it for a few short years, then never again and then you can fight it without fear of academic reprisal if you so choose.

It's not like he'll actually have to work with them as part of a treatment team...
 
Are you in pre clinical years still?

Seems odd to have peer review that soon.
I had them first two years. And why I don't see them as an appropriate measure of performance. Students don't know how to evaluate. So why should they.

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Yup. We do peer evals for all of our group activities, including Gross.
Well then keep in a mind it could potentially be a problem for you in future. But it sounds like you already want to address it and would be willing to change. A true dingus doesn't think like that.

As far as the value of these pre clinical peer reviews, I trust the f-ing mailman's review of me more than the vast majority of my class. They don't know ****.
 
I say you embrace it. Begin posting study guides with incorrect answers and taking the printer cables. Rip important pages out of shared course books. Become the gunner.
 
I had them first two years. And why I don't see them as an appropriate measure of performance. Students don't know how to evaluate. So why should they.

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Missed it, thank goodness, but they started peer evals in the first 2 years for the class entering 2 years below us. It's supposed to be a way to catch unprofessional behavior early in med school.
 
Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.
Were there any examples looking back that you think didn't make you any friends? The problem is a lot of third year is being able to get along with teammates, even the biggest idiots. So if you're already getting mad now, it might be an indicator of what happens later on. Read this: www.alphaomegaalpha.com/medprof2015
 
It's hard to say. I'm an M1 so it's only been a few months and I thought I was getting along farily well with other med students. In undergrad, we had a very diverse group of individuals some of whom did not place much emphasis on academics, especially when it came to group work. So in undergrad, I would get blunt and upfront and ask the slackers to do their work. Obviously that's a really bad behavior lol.

In med school, I haven't had that problem yet. Everone is working really hard and no one seems to be slacking. Furthermore, grades are very much so based on individual work at my instituion so it hasn't been a problem

One girl who I said hello to did say that she was surpised I was talking to her since she recalled that I gave the impression that I didn't like her. It may be that I have a very strange tone/voice or a Male Resting Bitch Face. I generally try to smile when I can, but yeah there are those days when i'm not happy and I guess it shows.



Anyways, Any other general tips and getting along well with people? I'm reading some of these tips and they are amazing. I would really appreciate if you guys could give some more pointers/discussion topics so that I seem more geniuine and kind and respectful to my peers.
 
Also, just to let you know, another reason why I am concerned is that our peer evaluation system is set up so that peers who give their peers a score of 2/5 or lower in any of the categories will have their comments forwarded to the course director/deans. I received a score of 2 or lower, particualrly in the category in which I am seeking attention from faculty while undermining my peers from at least one of my evaluators with an average score in the mid 3.5 region.

I guess I am saying this because my performance must have been so egregious and horrifying that one of my peers believed it was necessary to have the Dean and the course director alerted anonymously with her/his 2/5 rating (could have been 1/5). I think it really says a whole lot when one of your peers gives you that type of rating. I believe the average ratings are usually in the high 4 across the board. I received sub 4 ratings in 3 categories as I mentioned in my earlier post.
 
My school had us peer review our anatomy lab partners, TBL partners, presentation group partners, so I understand. These people telling you that these peer reviews don't matter and you should stay the course are so far off. One eval saying you have issues then sure, blow it off. But most med students are so scared of giving proper evals that they just give perfects to everybody along with generic "great job" comments. If you are consistently getting poor evals from your peers it is either because you go to a school where everybody but you got together and decided to crap on each other, or you have some personality issues.

You've made the first step in the right direction by recognizing that it is you and that you have a problem. Don't listen to these SDNers that tell you you're fine...it's the equivalent of asking the local fraternity if you have a drinking problem. I can't tell you what is wrong with you based solely on your posting, but I can tell you that dealing with people is a skill that we can all improve on. There are some people it comes natural to, some that suck at it and improve on it throughout life, and some have terrible personality issues and decide it's everybody else's fault and go through life making everyone else miserable once they're an attending physician who can crap on everyone around them. You can decide now who you want to be.
 
Also, just to let you know, another reason why I am concerned is that our peer evaluation system is set up so that peers who give their peers a score of 2/5 or lower in any of the categories will have their comments forwarded to the course director/deans. I received a score of 2 or lower, particualrly in the category in which I am seeking attention from faculty while undermining my peers from at least one of my evaluators with an average score in the mid 3.5 region.

I guess I am saying this because my performance must have been so egregious and horrifying that one of my peers believed it was necessary to have the Dean and the course director alerted anonymously with her/his 2/5 rating (could have been 1/5). I think it really says a whole lot when one of your peers gives you that type of rating. I believe the average ratings are usually in the high 4 across the board. I received sub 4 ratings in 3 categories as I mentioned in my earlier post.

Yes, well then I would get some input from all involved, but in an open way. You have to figure how much is you and how much may be them.

There is something to be said for the very imbalanced, subject stuff having such an impact on another person. I prefer as objective a scale and system of evaluation as possible. That's hard to get, but there are both better and lesser ways of doing this. You just might be viewed as too singularly focused, so get in the huddle and go at it as a team. I mean at least you have to try--even if someone is being a gunner/snake. You can't always win em over, but you try. And then some people will just die as snakes. How lovely for them and for those with whom they must work.
 
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Like many situations in life, Med School can be approached like a game. The game changes as you progress up the ladder. Your ability to adapt to the game and play it well will sometimes be far more impactful than it should be...but that's just how it is. If you are generally more intelligent and/or more prepared than the people around you, you are likely to become a target in group situations. If you are socially awkward or just generally not likable, then the situation will be worse. Some people really thrive on passive aggressive bashing through the peer review or anonymous professionalism reporting systems. Sadly, these kind of actions are often perpetuated and encouraged by admin. Thus, your best bet is to put your head down and play the game. Yes, this sometimes means pretending to care about feedback from some person who's opinion means absolutely dogsh*t and then trying to make a noticeable change in your behavior. I'm not saying peer review feed back is always wrong...but it certainly facilitates the insecure expressing themselves passive aggressively against those who are smarter, more prepared, or just stronger in a social setting.
 
Anyways, Any other general tips and getting along well with people? I'm reading some of these tips and they are amazing. I would really appreciate if you guys could give some more pointers/discussion topics so that I seem more geniuine and kind and respectful to my peers.

This is going to sound really dorky and simplistic, but I swear, it works: When you're talking with someone, actively look for something you like about them and think "I really like you!" thoughts. Even if you don't say anything, your thoughts seem to telegraph through in body language or micro-expressions. (Not to mention that simply thinking a bunch of nice thoughts really does brighten your day.)
 
Objective or subjective, the scent of a team-player vs. not-a-team-player may linger and waft along with one through one's career.
Not denying that. There is some merit, I'm just saying don't act like its the end of the world.

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Your fellow students aren't idiots and they know when a team member isn't pulling their weight, is is being an a**hole. Medicine is a team sport these days and y'all need to learn how to work together. Period.



I had them first two years. And why I don't see them as an appropriate measure of performance. Students don't know how to evaluate. So why should they.

Sent from my One using Tapatalk
 
Hi everyone,

So I've received my peer evaluations and they were pretty bad. While I'm prepared and prompt for courses, I have pretty negative citations in the category of respecting my peers and willing to teach others/share information as well as seeking attention from faculty at the cost of undermining my peers.

I've always had this problem where I struggled to work well with groups. I'm a pretty stoic person and I suppose I can be pretty neurotic/condescending when it comes to around exams. However, I'm wondering if any of you can maybe offer some additional advice on getting along well with my group mates. What are some tips/principles that you guys recommend to maintain my cool when under stress. What are some goto words/topics that you guys bring up to really lighten the relationship you have with your peers.


Now where did that book by Dale Carnegie go?...

Generally people don't respond well to people who are pricks, or don't have the capability to read them. Learn how to watch other people's body language and figure out whether they are enjoying themselves. Learning forward and smiling? generally good. Is there a murderous glint in their eyes? Generally bad. Both at the same time? Congratulations! you identified a sociopath!

Do you have friends? Just talk to them like they are your friends.
 
Your fellow students aren't idiots and they know when a team member isn't pulling their weight, is is being an a**hole. Medicine is a team sport these days and y'all need to learn how to work together. Period.
I agree. Again, never disagreed with that kind of negative remark.
I honestly think it's great OP found out now instead of during clinical rotations. I'm saying these evals aren't the death of your career. More like a blessing (and also most med students don't know how to evaluate people properly).

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These evals don't go away. I work in a teaching hospital and every employee from custodian, allied health, resident, fellow, to attending gets evals from peers. The providers also get regularly evaluated by patients as well.

I do agree with kaustikos that people (not just med students) don't always know how to evaluate people or follow the instructions. Our evals explicitly state to focus on the previous year time period and answer based on how people consistently perform, not just comment on one incident. However, the biggest complaint from my colleagues tends to be people nailing them for one specific negative interaction rather than patterns of behavior. People tend to get so hung up on that that they lose sight of all the positive stuff over the previous year.

That said, there is some benefit to these things. You'll always be working on teams and these evals can give you an idea about all of the different ways people interpret things. You'll likely always be evaluated by someone. It can give you better insight on how to read people. When i get something and can't figure out what's behind it, my approach is to talk to one or two people that I trust to be objective and interact with often and ask them what they think might be behind the feedback and if they have suggestions on what to do differently. This has usually worked pretty well for me. It just seems like there are a lot of different ways people can interpret things depending someone's previous experiences or frame of reference. So asking a few different people can be really helpful.

Sometimes the stuff is just goofy or people project their own insecurities onto your actions. When we get done with our work, we're supposed to go and help our coworkers. So I would go to someone and say, "i don't have much going on right now. Need help with anything?" Well my evals had quite a few positive comments about how i was always offering to help. But there was one comment that said i needed to quit offering to help so much and trust that other people can handle their jobs. I talked to our lead, we had an idea who it came from and it was someone with some insecurity issues who had at times seemed offended when i asked if she needed help with anything. The lead thought the comment was kind of dumb and said she'd never seen me offer to help in a way that should bother anyone. She said I probably didn't need to worry about it, but if i wanted to i could try something different with this person. So next time i said, "things have died down over here. If you have any extra work you feel like delegating, let me know." She seemed a lot more comfortable and less defensive with that approach.

If it does get brought to a dean, you can say something to the effect of, "I'd really like to work in improving these areas, so it would be helpful to have some specific examples of what I'm doing that needs improvement."

If you aren't getting more than just a 1-5 rating you could suggest that comments would be a helpful addition to the feedback. Or require it for certain ratings. I just filled out an eval one of our fellows rating certain things 1-5, but if I chose 1, 2 or 5 a mandatory comment box popped up that said "please support your rating with specific examples" That seemed like a great approach. Another one of our residency programs started making comment prompts to get people started on appropriate comments (for attendings evaluating residents and fellows). So giving good feedback is something people struggle with doing well at all levels.

TL;DR
1.) find one or two peope who seem objective and ask for advice
2.) if you have to meet with the dean, say you'd like to improve so specific examples would be helpful to you
3.) see if you can figure out who gave the feedback based on your interactions with them and their body language. ( don't confront them about it, just for your own benefit and to get practice reading people- are they closed off and tense or open and smiling when you do certain things).
4.) hopefully people's skills for giving feedback will improve over time
5.) realize sometimes it is you, sometimes it isn't, and sometimes its just weirdness
6.) strive be someone who gives good and useful feedback to others (don't try to nail someone because they nailed you)
7.) maybe suggest changes to the feedback system to improve usefulness ( so long as it doesnt look like you're trying to shirk responsibility for something)
 
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