Need Help!! Canadian Reapplicant

[nonamesleft]

Hey everyone,

I'm wondering what my chances for MD/PhD are as a reapplicant. I've listed my stats, my current/future plans (and the reasoning behind them), and the list I'm currently compiling. Any comments, advice, etc. would be greatly helpful, and desperately needed.

I applied this past cycle with a cGPA of 3.36 and sGPA of 3.33. I was interviewed at 3 school (one Canadian MD program, one American MD/PhD, and one American MD). I was waitlisted at all three: one high, which ended up still being a rejection, a normal waitlist, and one low waitlist (at the Canadian school). I am a Canadian citizen, but not a US citizen or resident.

I recently graduated from undergrad, and I now have a cGPA of 3.51 and sGPA of 3.46. My mark breakdown from year to year go like this: ~3.8 ->~3.0 ->~3.1 ->~3.9..so I definitely don't show a upward trend...instead, my trend is more of a U-shape.

My MCAT score was 32Q (PS: 11, VR: 11, and BS: 10) from 2008. I'm planning to retake it this August, and from the AAMC practices I've done, I've been scoring 35-40 range. (When I took my 2008 MCAT, the highest I ever scored on a practice was a 28)

My EC's are a bit better than average, but not great. So far, I've done a lot of hospital volunteering (6 years, 4hrs/week), research (3 years, 1 publication in a decent peer-reviewed journal, and 1 presentation at a undergrad conference). I've also done a few leadership and mentoring activities on campus (such as mentoring, teaching assistant, president/vp of a few student clubs, etc), and an international missions trip.

I'm wondering a few things at this point:

1) What should I do this coming year (a glide year)?

2) Is it worth it to reapply this cycle with the updated marks and a (most likely) better MCAT? If so, which schools? I understand lower tier schools, but which ones? (For example, although GWU takes relatively low marks, the school also receives so many applications that it's very difficult to be competitive)

3) What other options are available to me for this year? (I've applied to a few SMP programs, but because I didn't find out about two of the waitlists until this week, I was very late in submitting those SMP applications)

My major reason for not doing another year of undergrad is that

1) There's not enough upper year science courses left for me to take at my current university that would allow me to stay a full time student. If I don't maintain full time status at a university, and don't meet the requirements for the "special year" set out by Canadian schools, I'm losing out on one guaranteed interview and one potential interview. (I meet the cutoff requirements to UWO, so it means guaranteed interview, and with the University of Toronto weighting system, I end up with a cGPA of ~3.85, which means a potential interview). Not taking upper level classes/full course load means I lose both interview eligibilities.

2) By doing a SMP, the full course load thing would be met, and I would also be able to "bypass" the GPA cutoff for Queens (another school where meeting cutoffs=automatic interview). At Queens, graduate students (I checked, and SMP counts) would not be subjected to the same firm GPA cutoffs, but MCAT cutoff remains firm (hence I need to retake my MCAT). I'm also fairly confident regarding my academic abilities. The 3.0 and 3.1 years were due to several family crises, where I ended up trying to take the full course load and juggle the family issues at the same time. In my fourth year, I was still dealing with the family problems, but I found a better way to time-manage.

3) SMP would allow me to be in the US. I know that a lot of time commitment is involved with handling the SMP courseload, but I was hoping to get some US clinical experiences such as shadowing physicians (very difficult to do in Canada). It may also give me a better idea of how the US healthcare system works, especially with all the changes taking place.


Below is a list of schools that I've compiled.

Submit in June:
RFU Jefferson (MD/PhD)
LSU-NO (MD/PhD)
MCW
MUSC (MD/PhD)
NYMC
Penn State (MD/PhD)
Stony Brook (MD/PhD) ->could anyone verify if this program accepts Canadians? I'm having trouble finding the admission requirements for it. For many schools, the citizenship requirements are different between MD apps and MD/PhD apps.
Maryland (MD/PhD)
Cincinnati (MD/PhD) ..I checked. although the MD doesn't take canadians, the MD/PhD does. They also have a few really awesome labs that I would die to work in.
VCU (MD/PhD)
Wayne State
=12

Submit in September (if MCAT matches the projected)
AECOM (MD/PhD)
Case (CCLCM)
Columbia
Mayo
Mt. Sinai
St. Louis
UChicago

..does any other mid-tier MD/PhD programs accept Canadians?

=7~10

Canadian:
McMaster
Western
Toronto
Queens
Calgary

=5

Total: 24~27 schools

I'm hoping for comments on how competitive I would be for the MD/PhD programs I've listed above, which ones are definitely out of my range, and if there are others that I should add. I'm sorry for the incredibly long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated!

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[ColumbiaPS2010]

Below is a list of schools that I've compiled.

Submit in June:
RFU Jefferson (MD/PhD)
LSU-NO (MD/PhD)
MCW
MUSC (MD/PhD)
NYMC
Penn State (MD/PhD)
Stony Brook (MD/PhD) ->could anyone verify if this program accepts Canadians? I'm having trouble finding the admission requirements for it. For many schools, the citizenship requirements are different between MD apps and MD/PhD apps.
Maryland (MD/PhD)
Cincinnati (MD/PhD) ..I checked. although the MD doesn't take canadians, the MD/PhD does. They also have a few really awesome labs that I would die to work in.
VCU (MD/PhD)
Wayne State
=12

Submit in September (if MCAT matches the projected)
AECOM (MD/PhD)
Case (CCLCM)
Columbia
Mayo
Mt. Sinai
St. Louis
UChicago

..does any other mid-tier MD/PhD programs accept Canadians?

=7~10

Canadian:
McMaster
Western
Toronto
Queens
Calgary

=5

Total: 24~27 schools

I'm hoping for comments on how competitive I would be for the MD/PhD programs I've listed above, which ones are definitely out of my range, and if there are others that I should add. I'm sorry for the incredibly long post, but any help would be greatly appreciated!

I'll start, I think UT-Southwestern, Penn, Northwestern, Emory, Vanderbilt all takes international applications. For some the public programs you listed, you should call up the office and ask them how often they have taken in international students.

 

[nonamesleft]

I'll start, I think UT-Southwestern, Penn, Northwestern, Emory, Vanderbilt all takes international applications. For some the public programs you listed, you should call up the office and ask them how often they have taken in international students.

Thanks for your input!

Of the public MD/PhD's I've listed, the one I'm not sure about is Stony Brook and Penn State. (others say they consider Canadians)

The schools you listed do accept Canadians, but they're also upper tier schools that I have no shot at with my GPA, regardless of how well I can do on the MCATs this second time around.

 

[nonamesleft]

Bump!

Could anyone offer further insight into next steps, as well as my schools list? I've called admissions offices, but I feel that they're more evasive and less on the point than students =)

I'm hoping SDNers will give me a better idea of
a) how many Canadians are in your program (if your program accepts canadians)

b) how many Canadians did you see on the interview trail, and was it the same ones over and over? (and at which schools)


If you are at a particular school, could you comment on the attitude of your school towards international (Canadian) students? (as in: do they actively recruit Canadians, try to avoid taking Canadians, etc)

My conversations with admissions committees usually go something like this:

Me: I'm very interested in the MD/PhD program at ___. I am strongly considering applying this cycle. Could you tell me what a competitive applicant file would look like?

Admissions: Well, you need research experiences, strong research letters.

Me: yes. I understand. However, could you tell me what GPA/MCAT scores would be considered competitive?

Admissions: We don't really have a cutoff point, but the higher scores the better.

Me: Also, I am a Canadian citizen. I am wondering how ___ looks upon such applicants?

Admissions: You are welcome to apply (some others say: We don't take international students)

Me: How many Canadian students do you interview each year? and how many are currently in the program?

Admissions: We have a few...but it depends on the individual application.
(or: We don't have any, but we review each application separately)

...etc

basically, my point of posting the conversation is that I feel like I'm going in circles when I call them, and they don't like giving out answers that will help me gauge my chances...


Thanks in advance!!

 

[nothingman]

I'm one of the 2-3 Canadians in our US program (though I now have US permanent residency as well). I was definitely given the sense that admission as an international student (which even as Canadians, we are usually treated as) is tougher than for US applicants at the schools that do take such students. This is not meant to discourage you, but just by means of saying to apply broadly. There is a somewhat up to date list of programs accepting international students that is floating around the forum.

There is another, less talked-about, MD-PhD path in Canada, which entails going to med school first as an MD candidate and accumulating significantly less debt than most of your US counterparts (and at least some years ago, this difference was immense. I haven't looked lately). Upon finishing med school, you apply to residency, and after a year or two you get your moonlighting credentials. You can then enter a PhD program while working as an MD on the side and significantly supplementing your stipend income. I've known several people that have done this and they seem happy with their choice.

Advantages to this process:

* Better finances if you go to an inexpensive med school. You make much more as a resident/licensed moonlighting provider than as a combined degree student. In the US, the stipend is usually plenty for a single person, but as you approach 30, have a family, etc., it begins to get stretched.
* Increased maturity when you enter grad school and perhaps an easier time of research. Also, you know what your clinical interests are at this point and can tailor a project to exactly what you need.
* Increased time to reflect on how much of a role research will play in your life (i.e. if you're happy with going the clinical route alone, or feel it will be a more balanced-life experience to avoid a PhD, you are free to advance in the clinical realm).

Disadvantages:

* You have to pay for med school upfront. If this is as expensive as the private US med schools or even many of the public/state-affiliated ones, this option becomes much less attractive/doable.
* You lose out on the integrated aspects of a combined degree program at one place. Some schools do this very well, but for most, I would say this loss is not huge. Also, you don't have whatever benefit a PhD gives to your residency application, especially in the US. However, I would feel like a post-MD, PhD might be easier to follow up with a closely related postdoc and a research faculty position if that is what you seek. It seems like less interruption of your growth as a scientist.

Good luck!