Need help choosing Post Bacc program

[terimadi12]

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I completed my Bachelors last year and had a 2.5gpa overall but a 3.7 my last two years. I then decided to take all of my science requirements and received:

Chem 1a: B
Chem 1b: A
Bio 1a: B
Zoology: A-
Organic Chemistry 1a: A-
Organic Chemistry 1b: A
Physics 1A: A-
Physics 1B: A

My problem has been that my MCAT scores are 18, and 20..which just don't cut it. I have tried studying as much as I can on my own but feel that maybe a post bacc program would be best since I would be with other students in a similar situation and perhaps I might actually be able to get accepted into a bridge or linkage program if possible. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[sunnyjohn]

The 3.7 shows and upward trend. Good job! 👍

What is your time frame? When are you looking to matriculate? Waht state are you in?

Can you take classes at your undergard university for another semester or two? If you have a lot of credits, it won't greatly bring up your overall undergrad GPA, but it may make you look better to an SMP admissions officer.

Either way, you are really going to have to pick up that MCAT score. Take the TPR or Kaplan course. You'll find like-minded pre-meds there that may help you get with the program.... and get the EXAMkrackers books.


Boston Uni. has a great SMP program with a great success rate for folks who get good grades. The new graduate SMP GPA is a new section on your application and may help offset the lower undergrad GPA.

p.s. what's your science GPA?

 

[Monitor]

Good news, one girl in my class got a 22 the first time she took the MCAT. Then, she got serious about studying for it and knocked it out of the park with a 42 on a subsequent attempt. Studying as much as you can means 200 Q-Bank questions daily, reading the answer explanations for all the questions. If you did this alone for 6 months you will get well above a 20. If you have a learning disability, ADD or ADHD, then seek help. With medication those issues can be corrected.

A 2.5 and 20 IS NOT GOING TO CUT IT ANYWHERE, probably not even for Post-Bacc programs (Exception = Some programs exist for URMs to increase their opportunities for higher education and your scores are high enogh for those programs). At POST-Bacc programs they interview about 100 people for each spot and then will leave empty seats in the program if the right applicants aren't there for a given year.

Another option is a Masters in Physiology. Georgetown has a program where you take Med School classes with the first years. At Georgetown a certain percentage of the class gets an A, the next top scores get B, etc... Then, they give the Masters candidates a grade according to where you fall in the med school standings. It is rough and expensive, but if you want to step it up this may be a place for you to do it.

Good Luck.

PS - Good grades and Low MCAT won't cut it, but Good MCAT and low grades will if you can address your low acedemic performance in a convincing manner.
Good MCAT with a 2.5 overall is probably a 30 minimum.

 

[Monitor]

There is always more than one way to skin a cat...

A good friend of mine who graduated #1 in the class at Tufts a dozen years ago is always complaining to me about being the only US trained MD in his Emergency Department. He finished first in his class, had his pick of training programs and earns nearly the exact same wage as DOs, and FMGs. It Kills him .

This is not to knock DOs or FMGs, the truth of the matter is all the ED docs he works with are qualified graduates of US Emergency Medicine residencies. But, and this is an undisputable truth as well, IT IS A FAR EASIER ROUTE to go to DO schools and forgein medical schools than to make it to any US allopathic med school 😱 . These is always a shortage of US allopathic graduates for residencies and good scores on the USMLE can get you a good residency from any school. There are a minority of highly competitive programs/fields that protect their reputation and only accept US MDs. Also, you'll likely never be an Attending at Harvard or any other TOP program, but you can practice medicine.

The down side personally is, ALL or MOST US allopathic graduates consider all DO and FMG graduates as second class practioners, half a step above NPs and PAs 🙄 .

BOTTOM LINE - YOU CAN GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL NOW 😀 with those grades and end up working as a DOCTOR in a medical field, without killing yourself. You'll have to spend the rest of your life answering questions like... Where did you go to medical school? Where is that? Why did you go there? And knowing it was because your grades weren't good enough. It's true for all the DOs and FMGs. BUT - You collect 95% of the same pay as US MDs and you can go to med school right now. Now that news should make your heart sing 😍 .

 

[Sundarban1]

I completed my Bachelors last year and had a 2.5gpa overall but a 3.7 my last two years. I then decided to take all of my science requirements and received:

Chem 1a: B
Chem 1b: A
Bio 1a: B
Zoology: A-
Organic Chemistry 1a: A-
Organic Chemistry 1b: A
Physics 1A: A-
Physics 1B: A

My problem has been that my MCAT scores are 18, and 20..which just don't cut it. I have tried studying as much as I can on my own but feel that maybe a post bacc program would be best since I would be with other students in a similar situation and perhaps I might actually be able to get accepted into a bridge or linkage program if possible. Any help would be appreciated.

What happened to 2nd semester bio? Does zoology count for the second semester?

 

[gtleeee]

Thank you for your post. It amused me. I get an odd (albeit probably an incorrect image) of a darling (but arrogant) boy at Tufts (or a similar place), or perhaps a recent grad,who is wounded by the reality that even graduates of a lofty bastion of elitism such as Tuft's must toil in the trenches of Emergency Room Departments with less worthy entities and at the same wage as less exalted creatures such as FMG's and DOs. I feel your resentment and bewilderment. As a DO ER doc of 22 years experience in Emergency Rooms both Military and Civilian, perhaps I can partly explain why.

The why is this. Clinical Competence is the primary mark of worth in the majority of Emergency Departments in this country. Emergency medicine is a tough and very staight forward field of endeavor. If you do not know how to think quickly on your feet, If you are incapable of effectively leading a small team, if you are incapable of taking a chance (albeit rarely) sometimes just based on experience and guts. If you can not routinely perform the sometimes life saving skills of the ER.(i.e. difficult intubations, chest tubes, Ect.), than a degree from Tuft's will be far from adequate in obtaining the respect of your physician peers. If you are competent in the practice of emergency room medicine very few of your fellow docs, nursing staff, or paramedics, are going to ruminate on your medical school roots. DO's and to a lesser degree FMGs hold a wealth of positions in emergency departments large and small throughout this country as PDS, staff physicians and teachers. Are you suggesting that these men and women should make less money based on their graduate degree? Are you suggesting that overall DO and FMG docs are less competent in the ER than their MD brothers?

As one of just a handfull of DOs in a very large and approximately 95% American MD trained Emergency medicine group on the west coast, I find it absurd that my peers would condsider me anything other than just "another competent physician worker drone in the busy hive")That you subscribe to the belief that "most if not all American MD grads consider DOs second class practitioners a step above NPs and PAs." proves to my satisfaction that you are fairly new in this business and if you work in the ER have limited experience there so far. Competence is the great leveler in most Emergency Rooms I dare say. Competent ER docs come in equal portions from American MD SOM, DO colleges, and from the ranks of FMGs in this country.

I understand your resentment and bewilderment. Better you should learn now that lifef is terribly unfair and save yourself heartbreak in the future, Perhaps after you go the "way of all flesh" there will be an after life where a degree from Tuft's and like institutions will entitle you the additional respect you think you deserve. Who's to say there isn't)..

 

[Lindyhopper]

Yeah, it looks like a long hard road to a US MD. A possible solution is a DO post bacc. PCOM, LECOM, & numerous other DO schools have such programs.
At PCOM one takes a slightly watered down version of the first year of med school. A strong preformance & an improved MCAT should land you in a DO program. Another benefit is the great preparation for the first year of med school.

 

[redwings54]

One option you might want to consider is the Drexel MSP program. It is specifically designed for students who have lower MCAT scores. The way it works is that you take 4 undergrad courses the first semester as well as a MCAT prep course. Then second semester you take 4 graduate level courses as well as the MCAT in April. Upon successful completion, you get the option of completing the IMS program the next year. The IMS program consists of actual medical school classes that allow you to prove that you can handle the coursework. You also would get a Masters in Biological Science after completion of the IMS program. There are also some linkages to med school if you do well in the program. The only thing I am unsure of is whether or not there is a minimum score or GPA requirement. I kinda think that you need to have at least a 2.7 though. I also think that for the DO programs people have mentioned that you need a 2.7 as well. I know for the LECOM program, the science GPA min is 2.5 but the overall is 2.7 I think. Its going to be pretty hard to get into a formal program with a 2.5 overall. So if I were you, what I would do is take a year to take classes a la carte at your local university to try to get it up to a higher average. Most schools allow you to take continuing education classes no matter what your average is. That would allow you to get your GPA up some and then go to a formal program in a year or so. And even though some people are saying you are competitive for a DO school now, you really arent. For most DO schools, teh GPA average is 3.35-3.5ish with around a 25 MCAT. A foreign school might admit you as some schools dont even require MCAT scores, but just keep in mind that it is a much more demanding life once there and it is much harder to get a competitive residency. Personally, I am applying to only DO schools as I love the philosophy, the fact that we learn manipulation and also because I either want to be a pediatrician or a family practice doc. Ok, this is a very long message but I hope it was helpful. Take care.

 

[jintonic5]

There is always more than one way to skin a cat...

A good friend of mine who graduated #1 in the class at Tufts a dozen years ago is always complaining to me about being the only US trained MD in his Emergency Department. He finished first in his class, had his pick of training programs and earns nearly the exact same wage as DOs, and FMGs. It Kills him .

This is not to knock DOs or FMGs, the truth of the matter is all the ED docs he works with are qualified graduates of US Emergency Medicine residencies. But, and this is an undisputable truth as well, IT IS A FAR EASIER ROUTE to go to DO schools and forgein medical schools than to make it to any US allopathic med school 😱 . These is always a shortage of US allopathic graduates for residencies and good scores on the USMLE can get you a good residency from any school. There are a minority of highly competitive programs/fields that protect their reputation and only accept US MDs. Also, you'll likely never be an Attending at Harvard or any other TOP program, but you can practice medicine.

The down side personally is, ALL or MOST US allopathic graduates consider all DO and FMG graduates as second class practioners, half a step above NPs and PAs 🙄 .

BOTTOM LINE - YOU CAN GET INTO MEDICAL SCHOOL NOW 😀 with those grades and end up working as a DOCTOR in a medical field, without killing yourself. You'll have to spend the rest of your life answering questions like... Where did you go to medical school? Where is that? Why did you go there? And knowing it was because your grades weren't good enough. It's true for all the DOs and FMGs. BUT - You collect 95% of the same pay as US MDs and you can go to med school right now. Now that news should make your heart sing 😍 .

2.5/20 won't get you into an osteopathic program, and doctors judge each other by their quality of work and mastery of knowledge. i work at a hospital that has a good number of DO's and MD's, and they treat each other as equal colleagues.

I think you're making very strongly biased statements based on a very small amount of anecdotal information.

 

[Monitor]

I find it amusing that you didn’t address my main point at all. I’ll spell that out for you, so you don’t need to go back and find it. US Allopathic medical schools are FAR AND AWAY more competitive to get into than DO or FMG schools.

And you didn’t dispute that in your comments, so you agree, or after 22 yrs experience in EDs you DOs still miss the obvious things (like the main point).

Here is a question for you: If DO and FMG schools are far less competitive, then why wouldn’t a person want to staff the whole ED with qualified, competent, ER trained US allopathic grads? Simply put there aren’t enough of them, there never were enough of them.

Next time you go in to see a patient explain that DO and FMG school are where students go when rejected from US allopathic medical schools, or when their grades and/or scores aren’t high enough to get in to US Allopathic Medical Schools. Explain how qualified and competent you are and about all your experiance and then explain that there is another Doctor in the ED that went to a US Allopathic Medical School and has similar qualifications as you do. Which one would they want?

And for you to think that you are privy to the politically incorrect biases of a group YOU DON’T BELONG TO, is even funnier. Considering you are the brunt of the jokes. When DO school applicants that are rejected start applying to US Allopathic Schools, then I’ll agree that your education is not inferior. Until then, while you DO schools get the left-overs after the Top Candidates are picked by US Allopathic Schools you’re in denial that your education and training is not questioned by US Allopathic MDs.

All the training I’ve had doesn’t compare to all the training you’ve had, so I admit you can do your job better than I can do your job. But, at the same time I notice things that you’ve seemed to learn to ignore. Such as, there are more Doctors of Osteopathy that wear “Dr.” Jones as their title on their white jackets, compared to C.A. Jones, “DO”. MDs rarely where "Dr." Jones. Funny how Chiroprators do the same thing; call themselves "Dr." to liken themselves to MDs. LOL.

Everyone in this country knows EXACTLY what an MD means and NOT EVERYONE knows what a DO is…

Again, my main point… Students entering Medical School Pathways should know:

1) US Allopathic are the MOST Competitive Schools.
2) If you cant get in at a US Allopathic School, try a DO or FMG school...
3) THERE IS A CERTAIN STIGMA associated with the LATTER schools
4) WE ALL KNOW THESE TO BE TRUTHS, not everyone openly admits it…

 

[Monitor]

2.5/20 won't get you into an osteopathic program, and doctors judge each other by their quality of work and mastery of knowledge. i work at a hospital that has a good number of DO's and MD's, and they treat each other as equal colleagues.

I think you're making very strongly biased statements based on a very small amount of anecdotal information.

I'm not the best communicator at times, I'm a little slow in getting my subtle points across amidst my highly (emotionally) charged rhetoric.

I'm making strongly biased statements based on a very large amount of LIFE EXPERIENCE. Doctors, Nurses, Electricians, Military, Mechanics, Teachers are all human and inclined to personal biases. Sounds like you DOs and FMGs live in a much nicer Universe or that you're blinded to the politically incorrect prejudices I've seen in my limited Medical Career. I'm not saying that FMGs and DOs don't have a right or a place to practice, but to say that there are no prejudices against them is so wrong it's comedy quality banter. 😱 Like saying HARVARD and PENN grads don't have biases and prejudices against SUNY grads.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I'm not the best communicator at times, I'm a little slow in getting my subtle points across amidst my highly (emotionally) charged rhetoric.

I'm making strongly biased statements based on a very large amount of LIFE EXPERIENCE. Doctors, Nurses, Electricians, Military, Mechanics, Teachers are all human and inclined to personal biases. Sounds like you DOs and FMGs live in a much nicer Universe or that you're blinded to the politically incorrect prejudices I've seen in my limited Medical Career. I'm not saying that FMGs and DOs don't have a right or a place to practice, but to say that there are no prejudices against them is so wrong it's comedy quality banter. 😱 Like saying HARVARD and PENN grads don't have biases and prejudices against SUNY grads.

You are a toolbag. Seriously, you are so far up your ass you don't even make sense. DO's are great doctors and MD are great doctors. I hate to break it to you, but there are PLENTY of kids in allopathic schools that do not belong there. Regardless, you are correct, allopathic programs are harder to get into. With that being said, intelligence is not the only aspect that makes an excellent doctor. There are many intangibles, those that you obviously do not possess, that make one an excellent physician. Please tell me you arn't in medical school!!??

 

[gtleeee]

Thanks Monitor...You have made an otherwise dreary Saturday morning rather more enjoyable. It certainly brought a couple smiles to my face. Your suggestion that I am clueless to the real thoughts of my MD collegues, as if I (and other DOs in the emergency room) are secretly ridiculed by our co-workers (by virture of my D.O. degree), or that we ER physicians are deliniated into 2 groups (DO and MD), as opposed to collegues doing a difficult job together, is laughable. You are astoundingly clueless. You don't need my help making yourself look ridiculous. If I were in your shoes I would delete your last 2 posts so fast it would make your head swim. They do not reflect well on yourself and that has nothing to do with the MD versus DO thing. If it makes you feel better I will condede that it harder to get into MD school than DO. There.....now don't you feel better.)

 

[USArmyDoc]

He is a piece of schit!!

 

[Monitor]

You are a toolbag. Seriously, you are so far up your ass you don't even make sense. DO's are great doctors and MD are great doctors. I hate to break it to you, but there are PLENTY of kids in allopathic schools that do not belong there. Regardless, you are correct, allopathic programs are harder to get into. With that being said, intelligence is not the only aspect that makes an excellent doctor. There are many intangibles, those that you obviously do not possess, that make one an excellent physician. Please tell me you arn't in medical school!!??

Well Hot-Lips, who belongs in Allopathic Schools? Why don't you make an improved screening tool to fix that problem?

You seem to be missing my point as well soldier. I'm not saying that DO and FMG practicing docs are not qualified. I'm saying that the playing field is NOT LEVEL. Everyone is NOT EQUAL. DO and FMG are by definition less competitive residency applicants. On rare occasion, they ROCK THE BOARDS... Let's talk on average. DO and FMG don't match up as well in Residencies as US Allopathic grades.

Given the FINITE body of knowledge in any specialty, you'll catch-up after many years of practice. But, when it comes to learning vast amounts of info in the short term, US Allopathic Schools SCREEN out many of those slower learners (with the MCAT) who go on to distinguished careers through DO and FMG pathways.

Given a fixed amount of info and enough time, anyone could do this job. But, we'll keep things moving so people finish in 4 years and keep screening out the quickest to pick up on new concepts and send them to US Allopathic Schools. We'll send the rest to DO and FMG programs. Give everyone 4 years to learn medicine. Then, everyone takes another couple exams (Step 1 and 2) then make residency picks from those scores. Funny how US Allopathic Grads seem to end up in the most desirable spots, year after year after year. Better think up a second screening tool here Major.

Funny how an Army Doctor doesn't understand the concept of prejudices influencing people, even those biases that have no real basis. For example DON'T ASK - DON'T TELL.

I mean you being a good and obedient Army Officer would file UCMJ charges against an admitted homosexual who bragged about his homosexuality, wouldn't you DOC? And we all know that has nothing to do with how well someone does his or her job right? And I guess you being the self-righteous grunt that you are you'll DENY that anyone in the Medical Corps has BIASES or PREJUDICES against HOMOSEXUALS.

A-TEN-TION, PA-RADE-REST, AT-EASE, BLOW-ME-SOL-DIER-BOY

Carry-on Tool.

PS – I appreciate the job military personnel do, but you are a jackass none the less. 😱 😱 😱

 

[USArmyDoc]

Well Hot-Lips, who belongs in Allopathic Schools? Why don't you make an improved screening tool to fix that problem?

You seem to be missing my point as well soldier. I'm not saying that DO and FMG practicing docs are not qualified. I'm saying that the playing field is NOT LEVEL. Everyone is NOT EQUAL. DO and FMG are by definition less competitive residency applicants. On rare occasion, they ROCK THE BOARDS... Let's talk on average. DO and FMG don't match up as well in Residencies as US Allopathic grades.

Given the FINITE body of knowledge in any specialty, you'll catch-up after many years of practice. But, when it comes to learning vast amounts of info in the short term, US Allopathic Schools SCREEN out many of those slower learners (with the MCAT) who go on to distinguished careers through DO and FMG pathways.

Given a fixed amount of info and enough time, anyone could do this job. But, we'll keep things moving so people finish in 4 years and keep screening out the quickest to pick up on new concepts and send them to US Allopathic Schools. We'll send the rest to DO and FMG programs. Give everyone 4 years to learn medicine. Then, everyone takes another couple exams (Step 1 and 2) then make residency picks from those scores. Funny how US Allopathic Grads seem to end up in the most desirable spots, year after year after year. Better think up a second screening tool here Major.

Funny how an Army Doctor doesn't understand the concept of prejudices influencing people, even those biases that have no real basis. For example DON'T ASK - DON'T TELL.

I mean you being a good and obedient Army Officer would file UCMJ charges against an admitted homosexual who bragged about his homosexuality, wouldn't you DOC? And we all know that has nothing to do with how well someone does his or her job right? And I guess you being the self-righteous grunt that you are you'll DENY that anyone in the Medical Corps has BIASES or PREJUDICES against HOMOSEXUALS.

A-TEN-TION, PA-RADE-REST, AT-EASE, BLOW-ME-SOL-DIER-BOY

Carry-on Tool.

PS – I appreciate the job military personnel do, but you are a jackass none the less. 😱 😱 😱

While I feel the need to answer your infantile insults, I will not do so. Simply put, the MCAT is not the be all end all. In fact, it means nothing when residency applications go in. To end this, you are a ***** who deserves no part of my time. So, good luck in your future endeavors and hopefully you will change your viewpoints. Once again, **** off ***** boy!

 

[Monitor]

While I feel the need to answer your infantile insults, I will not do so. Simply put, the MCAT is not the be all end all. In fact, it means nothing when residency applications go in. To end this, you are a ***** who deserves no part of my time. So, good luck in your future endeavors and hopefully you will change your viewpoints. Once again, **** off ***** boy!

WELL SAID MAJOR 😡 AS YOU WERE SOLDIER 😀

 

[MSc44]

I completed my Bachelors last year and had a 2.5gpa overall but a 3.7 my last two years. I then decided to take all of my science requirements and received:

Chem 1a: B
Chem 1b: A
Bio 1a: B
Zoology: A-
Organic Chemistry 1a: A-
Organic Chemistry 1b: A
Physics 1A: A-
Physics 1B: A

My problem has been that my MCAT scores are 18, and 20..which just don't cut it. I have tried studying as much as I can on my own but feel that maybe a post bacc program would be best since I would be with other students in a similar situation and perhaps I might actually be able to get accepted into a bridge or linkage program if possible. Any help would be appreciated.

your pre-reqs look real good actually, i assume it was the other gen ed classes and stuff thet cought u up, i think a DO school would notice that upward trend especially in the science classes, im sure the 20 could get u in somewhere ...i know kids with 18, 19 etc who got into DO schools, but i would say that the 2.5 overall is a killer, take a few classes to at least get to a 3.0, or even a masters in just straight biology or molecular bio, just make sure u do well, I had a ruff first year of college back in 99 came home did real well and the did a masters in mol bio and obtained all A's getting ready to take the mcats now......we'll see what happens with that, not a great test taker...........GOOD LUCK