Need Help Deciding!! Psy. D Programs

[monalisapizza]

Hi everyone!
So I am currently special education teacher who, for the past year, has been taking psych prerequisite courses at my local community college so apply to grad school. My original plan was Psy. D so I could practice and research and I wanted to specialize in school psych. I applied to a plethora of programs to the advisement of psychology professor and letter writer and I ended up getting into 5 out of the 8 programs (to my surprise). Most are school, one is Clinical/community, and one is Clinical/School but this is the most expensive program and in a pretty unaffordable place.

To break it down, money is important. I have successfully narrow it down to two choices BUT one is Clinical/Community and one is School. I will break down the pros and cons below. I am worried that if I specialize in school psych, I will limit my career options overall (do I only want to work with kids because that is all I know?) I also do not want to be stuck like my school psych was, pumping out assessments and not really working with or helping students. But I am also concerned that if I go the clinical route, I will never be able to work with kids and won't have schools to fall back on for a job. Ideally, I would be working in an outside agency helping underserved communities and families. I am interested in mindfulness intervention programs, policy advocacy, community-based research, adolescent behavior disorders (and possibly working with college students?), and therapeutic work. Debt is a huge concern, and locations where I have more of a support system are also important.

Point Park Clinical/Community Psy. D: APA Accredited (on-contingency waiting for graduation data), new program (first class in 2017), only 3 students have entered internship but 100% have been APA, I spoke to a 4th student from the 2017 year who is also doing an APA internship. Small cohort, awesome professors, social justice focused (a big plus). The current student shared that there is at least one established practicum site with kids. Could explore other interests (creative arts therapy). 24,000 a year and was already offered an assistantship for half-off tuition for the year and around a $400-$500 monthly stipend. (4+1 program)

Duquesne School Psy. D: APA-Accredited, NASP approved, APA internships each year range from 10% - 67%, only 36% of graduate are licensed (which is something I am interested in), like some research of the faculty, don't like that they place you in practicum sites in very affluent areas. More clout though with this name. Have spoken to 2 students, one who said she kinda wished she did a clinical program, and one who changed from school psy. d to phd (still at Duquesne). 42,000 a year and won't be able to be eligible for an assistantship until I earn my masters (which is supposed to happen at the end of the first year if everything goes to plan) (3+1 program)

I guess my questions are:

Thoughts/input on choosing between clinical/community and school psyc programs?

Can you still branch out into to different specialities within a generalist clinical program?

Any advice at all for what else to consider/what you would do in this situation?

Thank you in advance!!

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[psycle708]

I don't know much about either school/program, but financially, Point Park seems like the clear winner. Is the assistantship guaranteed or expected for all on-campus years? Are there opportunities for more funding? I agree that debt is a big concern. Honestly, Duquesne's tuition seems cost prohibitive..

You would definitely be able to work with kids with a clinical degree. You might ask Point Park more questions about practicum opportunities - are they actively trying to establish more sites with child/adolescent populations? Could you do a practicum in a school setting?

And there are plenty of people from school psychology programs that end up in non-school settings, usually by focusing practicums and internship on non-school settings. It concerns me that Duquesne's licensure rate is so low - I would guess that this is either because most of the graduates don't have an interest in working outside of schools, so they only need school psychology licensure through the state board of education (which is fine for them, but maybe not what you are looking for) OR because the school isn't preparing students well for clinical licensure.

 

[niceman]

It sounds like your ideal goals align better with the clinical/community program. It is a newer program so I would check what internship sites those students matched to. As far as practicums are concerned, unless practicums are assigned (e.g., program-/university-based clinics), you can always apply to do your practicum elsewhere beyond the established practicums.

You should also check state regulations and see if clinical psychologists can work in schools or school psychologists can work in community settings (it varies across states and some states have different licenses for school psychologists working in schools vs school psychologists who can work in other settings). This ensures you know what you can do with either degree/license in the jurisdictions you are interested in staying after graduation.

Unless working as a school psychologist is your only goal, I would be wary of Duquesne's program. It is a 4-year program with practicums in Year 2 and Year 3 only. That means you will be applying for internship with only hours in Year 2 and some hours in Year 3. I would be interested in learning what internship sites past students matched to, but they were unlikely to be competitive for most APA-accredited sites due to inadequate training and few practicum hours, which explains the low licensure rate.

In response to your more general questions, both clinical/community and school psych programs allow you to branch out into subspecialties GIVEN appropriate training. In general, a clinical psych degree provides more flexibility because a school psych degree usually entails a focus on child and adolescence, and going beyond that can be more difficult (there are school psych graduates who serve adults but they have received appropriate training for that).

 

[monalisapizza]

I don't know much about either school/program, but financially, Point Park seems like the clear winner. Is the assistantship guaranteed or expected for all on-campus years? Are there opportunities for more funding? I agree that debt is a big concern. Honestly, Duquesne's tuition seems cost prohibitive..

You would definitely be able to work with kids with a clinical degree. You might ask Point Park more questions about practicum opportunities - are they actively trying to establish more sites with child/adolescent populations? Could you do a practicum in a school setting?

And there are plenty of people from school psychology programs that end up in non-school settings, usually by focusing practicums and internship on non-school settings. It concerns me that Duquesne's licensure rate is so low - I would guess that this is either because most of the graduates don't have an interest in working outside of schools, so they only need school psychology licensure through the state board of education (which is fine for them, but maybe not what you are looking for) OR because the school isn't preparing students well for clinical licensure.

First of all thank you for your help, I really appreciate it! The assistantship is not guaranteed past the 1st year but there will be TA positions available after the 2nd year and I could reapply for other assistantships for the 2nd year.

I have been told that they are very flexible and looking to create more relationships as the program grows so I am hopeful that they will be looking into expanding but those are great questions.

Duquesne's licensure rate also concerns me (especially for that price!) I checked the School PhD program and their rate was a bit higher, like 55%, but still not that great and could be a toss up as to why.

 

[monalisapizza]

It sounds like your ideal goals align better with the clinical/community program. It is a newer program so I would check what internship sites those students matched to. As far as practicums are concerned, unless practicums are assigned (e.g., program-/university-based clinics), you can always apply to do your practicum elsewhere beyond the established practicums.

You should also check state regulations and see if clinical psychologists can work in schools or school psychologists can work in community settings (it varies across states and some states have different licenses for school psychologists working in schools vs school psychologists who can work in other settings). This ensures you know what you can do with either degree/license in the jurisdictions you are interested in staying after graduation.

Unless working as a school psychologist is your only goal, I would be wary of Duquesne's program. It is a 4-year program with practicums in Year 2 and Year 3 only. That means you will be applying for internship with only hours in Year 2 and some hours in Year 3. I would be interested in learning what internship sites past students matched to, but they were unlikely to be competitive for most APA-accredited sites due to inadequate training and few practicum hours, which explains the low licensure rate.

In response to your more general questions, both clinical/community and school psych programs allow you to branch out into subspecialties GIVEN appropriate training. In general, a clinical psych degree provides more flexibility because a school psych degree usually entails a focus on child and adolescence, and going beyond that can be more difficult (there are school psych graduates who serve adults but they have received appropriate training for that).

Thank you for your post and for bringing up the state regulations. I agree that my overall goals would align better with the clinical/community program but in PA, to be a licensed to work in schools, you have to complete an approved program with 60 credit hours or something, Duquesne is one of those approved programs.

I also appreciate you bringing up the practicums. It looks like almost everyone finished in exactly 4 years for the Psy D but for the School PhD, times ranged from 5 - 7 years and their licensure rate was 20% higher. Could be a reason why one of the students switched! I am waiting to meet with him one-on-one to ask.

I will say that as far as subspecialties like neuro, the clinical/community program has little to no focus on that but the School program does incorporate a few neuro courses which is cool. Thanks for your help again!

 

[niceman]

You may be able to get more information from the current student. The main reasons for low licensure rates can be:
1. Graduates chose to be school psychologists, which doesn't require licensure as psychologists.
2. Graduates chose other careers (e.g., faculty) that don't require licensure.
3. Graduates kept failing EPPP and could not be licensed.

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/EPPP_/2016_Scores_by_Doctoral_Prog.pdf

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.asppb.net/resource/resmgr/eppp_/2017_Doctoral_Report.pdf

You can look at Duquesne's most recent EPPP pass rates for its school psych PhD. These are the graduates with 1-3 years additional training than its PsyD students. That's why the quality of its training is worrisome. There's no such data for Point Park for comparison because it's so new, but this should be taken into consideration if you ultimately want to be licensed.

Re: Falling back on schools, some school psych programs provide respecialization options that allow people with other relevant degrees to earn an EdS/CAGS with fewer credits (30 credits minimum) and an internship. I have also met sped teachers/counselors doing a school psych degree part-time. It could be backup option if you ended up going the clinical/community route and wanted to switch back to school psych (which is less than ideal but doable).