Need Insight / Tough Decision

[Cello]

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Hello all, I'm new to posting here, but have read many threads over the years. I am writing to you all for some insight as I have a rather difficult dilemma to overcome and am looking for all possible perspectives before making a decision.

I applied for and recently received a pilot slot for the United States Air Force, which is a dream come true. However, it was a long time coming, and at one point, there was a lot of uncertainty with budget woes and the Air Force cutting its numbers significantly. I applied last year, and the selection boards were canceled. I was told I MIGHT be able to enter this month IF the budget was there, and it turned out that it was, so in the end I was selected.

This is a HUGE honor for me, and like I said, a childhood dream come true. But, during the downtime as I was unsure what the future held, and because I was becoming "age critical" (I'm 26, the age limit for AF pilots is 27) I began to look for other options. I thought about medicine for a while, but in the end I really became interested in dentistry. I am very interested in pursuing dentistry, though I admit I have only done a bit of shadowing.

The thing is, I believe that dentistry is a better option for my marriage, and for having a family down the road. Also, my wife is planning to pursue dentistry, and we had a plan to go to dental school together. Now, I'm presented with a difficult choice, because dentistry had begun to supplant piloting as my vision for the future and suddenly that which I had assumed unlikely has happened and I've been accepted for a pilot slot after all. But, while piloting is a sure thing, I still have to go back to school to do pre-dental, and then hope that both my wife and I get into the same dental school together.

I have a 3.28 GPA without pre-dental coursework, which I know is a bit low. Not an excuse, but I was a music major and focused on practicing my instrument more than my school work during my degree. In other words, I WILL bring that GPA up during pre-dental courses. My wife has a 3.8 GPA, and is highly intelligent, so I'm confident she will make it into dental school.

Anyone have any ideas as to how likely/unlikely it would be for my wife and I to gain admission into the same dental school? Any thoughts on my dilemma? Would I be insane to turn this opportunity down, or would that be your decision given the same choice?

 

[Bereno]

Congrats on the Pilot thinggy!

It is really difficult to say how well you would do trying for dental school. It sounds like you have never taken a science class, so that really should be your starting point. Can you take part time classes while enlisted? If at all possible, I would take a few science classes and then try and reevaluate from there. Also, how long would you have to serve if you took it?

On a second note, it is VERY unlikely that you both would get into the same dental school. So much so, that I would not even consider the option.

Best of luck!! 👍

 

[Cello]

Hey Bereno, thanks for the response. I would be committed for 10 years, not including the nearly two years of training that are required. I wouldn't be able to do classes until later in my commitment, at some point I'll likely need an advanced degree if I wish to be promoted beyond the rank of Major. I've thought about the Pilot Physician Program, but I'm not sure if that covers dentists as well, if anyone knows anything about that I'd appreciate their input!

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, if my wife and I both apply to the same schools, wouldn't there be a chance that one school would accept us both? Maybe that's overly optimistic?

 

[TXRuz]

I'm with Bereno--the odds of both you and your wife gaining admission to the same school down the road is pretty slim.

I personally would take advantage of my youth and start working on my pre-dent coursework now, because the road to becoming a dentist can be long. Even if you complete your science coursework within two years, there's no guaranteeing that you will be accepted into dental school immediately after. You may have to re-apply, which is another couple of years (I'm thinking worse-case scenario). And then of course, you have to get through dental school, which is another 4 years. If dentistry is what you're really wanting to do, I think the sooner the better. Again, these are just my two-cents. Congrats on the Air Force thing...awesome!

Best of luck to you and your wife! 🙂

 

[Vigilante]

Man, that's a tough one. My husband has been in the air force for awhile and is now applying to dental school. He always wanted to be in the military and ended up going into special ops out of the academy. He says he's glad he did it and thinks he would have regretted not going for it, but once he decided to settle down and start a family, dentistry became a much more attractive option.

Anyway, what you decide on that front is up to you, but as far as the dental thing goes, I know a lot of family members and friends who wanted to go to d-school together and ended up both getting into the same place. Plus, there are a decent number of schools in the same cities as one another, so you could still go to different schools and live together. And if your wife got into school and you didn't, you could always reapply the next year. Even if you did end up at different schools, you'd probably end up seeing more of your wife than if you were going through pilot training and deployed, so I wouldn't worry about those details. The question is, do you want to be a pilot or a dentist? And of course, which does your wife want to be married to?

 

[Bereno]

Hey Bereno, thanks for the response. I would be committed for 10 years, not including the nearly two years of training that are required. I wouldn't be able to do classes until later in my commitment, at some point I'll likely need an advanced degree if I wish to be promoted beyond the rank of Major. I've thought about the Pilot Physician Program, but I'm not sure if that covers dentists as well, if anyone knows anything about that I'd appreciate their input!

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, if my wife and I both apply to the same schools, wouldn't there be a chance that one school would accept us both? Maybe that's overly optimistic?

If its 10 years, I would not do it. The reason for this is I like the idea of me being my own boss; I would not do well in the military. The other reason is what are you going to do after you get out?? Get another job, or stay in the military? It seems like it would really leave you hanging halfway through your career. These are not questions I want to ask when I am in my 30s. PLEASE understand though, that this is a pre-dental forum and you will get a lot of people going in favor of the dental route (like me).

Only 40% of those who apply to dental school get accepted. Each applicant also applies to an average of 10 schools. If you make some very broad assumptions in the statistics, thats about a 4% chance of getting into any single school of your choosing. This also equates to about a 1.6% chance of both you and your wife getting into the same school. Once again, this is ignoring lots of other data, but you get the idea...

 

[OCDFlosser]

I disagree. I think that you and your wife could end up at the same school if you do well on the DAT and boost your GPA significantly. As long as you both are in the top 10% (stats-wise) of the applicant pool, you have a great chance.

However...you have not even taken a single difficult science course in your undergraduate career (I presume?). Who is to say that you are going to truly boost your GPA, or even ENJOY being the exhausted, stressed out, uncomfortably busy science geek that you HAVE TO become. And if you don't enjoy it (because most people don't) then you will have thrown away your precious opportunity to be a pilot. These are two very different careers. Think about it; tooth restoration, or flying a plane?

Becoming a dentist isn't just a matter of "8 years of school and $300,000+ of debt". It's a matter of exhaustion, tiresomely competitive, long days and nights worrying about IF your dream to become a dentist will come true.

I think it's merely a fascination to you at the moment. I say you should take up the piloting position...it has been a loyal dream of yours for a long time.

Good luck. 👍

 

[WhiteCoatWonder]

Congrats on the Pilot thinggy!

It is really difficult to say how well you would do trying for dental school. It sounds like you have never taken a science class, so that really should be your starting point. Can you take part time classes while enlisted? If at all possible, I would take a few science classes and then try and reevaluate from there. Also, how long would you have to serve if you took it?

On a second note, it is VERY unlikely that you both would get into the same dental school. So much so, that I would not even consider the option.

Best of luck!! 👍

+1...seems like you wouldn't even have to choose between flyin' and drillin' if you went this route. i always assumed you could do whatever kind of schooling you wanted after signing up with uncle sam.

like these guys have stated, idk about you and your wife attending the same DS but at least it seems like attending/applying for school doesn't have to be a decision you make right now.

as far as the pilot physician program...have you checked the military dentistry posts? there's some pretty knowledgeable folks over there, too.

 

[Cello]

Thank you all for the excellent input!

@OCDflosser, you may be right that dentistry is a mere fascination for me at the moment, but as odd it is may sound, so is piloting for the Air Force. No one really knows what it will be like to fly for Uncle Sam until they've been assigned their airframe and base. Even then, with all of the cost cutting, roll-backs on retirement and benefits, officers being separated from the Air Force with small severance packages and those who remain working 60+ hour work weeks (while flying fewer and fewer hours) before ultimately facing repeated deployments, I can only guess at what that environment might mean for me and my future family. All things begin as a fascination, and I'm sure that there will be things about dentistry that I won't like, but the current Air Force environment is such that I believe it is nearly unmanageable.

@Bereno, about the statistical chances of my wife and I entering the same school, I'm a bit confused by your numbers. I was under the impression from other threads that many applicants who are accepted to dental schools are often selected for multiple schools. For example, three people apply for 10 dental schools. Two people are rejected entirely, but one person is accepted to 5 dental schools, how are we considering those statistics? One way to look at is a 33% acceptance rate (by person) and another is a 17% acceptance rate (by schools). If people who are accepted are often accepted for multiple schools that would seem to be in our favor IF we are accepted to ANY at all. If my wife and I apply for the same 10 dental schools, she gets into 4, and I get into 2, it wouldn't seem that outlandish that one of them overlapped, especially if it's a "lower tier" school so-to-speak.

@Vigilante, great to hear from someone who has direct involvement with the AF, I think I know exactly what your husband is talking about in terms of getting it out of his system. Thanks for the wonderful advice!

A few of you have asked about my math / science experience, and I'll admit that it's minimal. Fortunately, my mind naturally gravitates towards math and the sciences. In college, I dare say I skipped 70% of those classes because I needed practice time as a performance major, and felt that I could pass the classes just fine without going to class or study. What's more, my cello professor said on more than one occasion that I'm in school to study the cello, not mathematics. Fortunately, I was right about passing, unfortunately, my grades weren't that great (I got mostly Bs and perhaps a C+ or two). I've never taken a science class with a lab, and I know that O-chem can be a beast, but for the first time in my life, I have a reason to really strive to achieve academic excellence. That, and I've grown up a bit since college (working a dead-end job while waiting on what you thought was your dream can do that to you).

Long story short, after hearing from some USAF pilots about the current working conditions (working 200-225 days per year adding up the hours, or 60-70 hours per week + deployments, with the continued threat that their benefits will be cut as the government works to resolve the debt crisis) and commercial pilots who are complaining about the airline industry right now, I'm lead to believe that piloting as a career just isn't what it used to be. I knew that back when I applied, but then I wasn't with my wife either, and things are different now. 1.5 years have passed since I first set foot in the recruiter's office, and a lot has changed since then. Furthermore, I'm not a child anymore, and while growing up next to an airbase exposed me to all kinds of pilots (they were my neighbors and friends) I guess that I wonder what might have happened had I known a few dentists... One thing I know for sure though, I considered a grad degree in music, law school, and even medical school, and nothing interests me as much as dentistry. It may very well be a naive fascination with something I don't understand, but I'm not a fool, I know that it takes a lot of work and dedication to do what you people do. But then, it wasn't easy getting accepted as a pilot in the AF either (I was told to bring my GPA up and ended up getting the commander's rec. despite competing with several other candidates with 4.0s and high 3s). It's not impossible, and from what I've read on these forums and from speaking to practicing dentists I believe it is absolutely worth the effort and time.

 

[Cello]

+1...seems like you wouldn't even have to choose between flyin' and drillin' if you went this route. i always assumed you could do whatever kind of schooling you wanted after signing up with uncle sam.

like these guys have stated, idk about you and your wife attending the same DS but at least it seems like attending/applying for school doesn't have to be a decision you make right now.

as far as the pilot physician program...have you checked the military dentistry posts? there's some pretty knowledgeable folks over there, too.

Thanks WhiteCoatWonder, I looked into the Pilot Physician Program, and while it's an amazing opportunity, it only applies to MDs and DOs. I could still do USUHS at the end of my commitment, but that's still 12 years down the road, and with things the way they are, many pilots are fearing heart-attacks at the age of 40 from the work load and stress they're under, so I don't know that I'd make it 12 years, let alone be able to add classwork on top of all that! 😉

 

[Bereno]

@Bereno, about the statistical chances of my wife and I entering the same school, I'm a bit confused by your numbers. I was under the impression from other threads that many applicants who are accepted to dental schools are often selected for multiple schools. For example, three people apply for 10 dental schools. Two people are rejected entirely, but one person is accepted to 5 dental schools, how are we considering those statistics? One way to look at is a 33% acceptance rate (by person) and another is an 17% acceptance rate (by schools). If people who are accepted are often accepted for multiple schools that would seem to be in our favor IF we are accepted to ANY at all. If my wife and I apply for the same 10 dental schools, she gets into 4, and I get into 2, it wouldn't seem that outlandish that one of them overlapped, especially if it's a "lower tier" school so-to-speak.

1st: In my post I was trying to be clear that I was making a LOT of assumptions to simplify the matter. In reality, these are not chance statements due to inherent qualities about a person. Furthermore, the truth is that there is no way to calculate the probability that you both will get into the same school; merely estimates.

2nd: It is true that many of those who get accepted likely have the traits to get accepted into more than one school. However, of those who do get accepted, the mode number of schools they are accepted into is 1, with a median of 2. Basically, of those accepted, the largest group of accepted students only have 1 interview. The mean is about 2.3 because the distribution is a little skewed to the upper end. These statistics are derived from from predents.com's data.

3rd: The likelihood of getting accepted period is about 40%. So 40% chance you get in multiplied by 40% chance she gets in is still only a 16% of both of you getting into dental school...

4th: Even though an accepted applicant has the highest liklihood of being accepted into only 1 school, the average is more generous, so I will use that. Additionally, the average number of schools applied to is 10. For the sake of simplicity, I am going to turn this into a 20% chance of getting into any single school (2/10). In my previous scenario I was using 1/10. Now that i look at it, I goofed in my previous maths, I should have written 1.6% chance, not 0.16% chance lol. This was found by multiplying the 16% chance of you guys getting in by the chance of your wife getting into the same school as you: 0.4 x 0.4 x 0.10 = 0.016. In the newer scenario lets change it from 1/10 to 1/5. this now makes it 0.4 x 0.4 x 0.20 = 0.032. Essentially, the odds seem closer to 3.2% chance, and that is me being "generous" using the mean instead of the mode.

Once again, PLEASE understand that these are estimates that include LOTS of assumptions and simplifications. The fact of the matter is that it is still very unlikely for you and your wife to both get into the same dental school. It is possible, just unlikely. To be honest, I would love to hear that you guys beat the odds and got into the same school! (if dentistry is in fact the path you choose) 🙂

Regardless, I hope for the best for you in whatever decision you make!! 🙂 👍