need research year advice

[ANosyGuy]

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Hello everyone,
I am a MS3 going for gen surg.

I'm taking a year off to do basic science research at a renowned academic center for multiple reasons (interest in academia, waiting a year to couple match with SO, burned out).

It comes down to 2 labs.
1) ran by surgeon, associate professor at med school, chief of his service, but his lab is small with only 3 members and basically one big project that will most likely not finish by end of year. good pub record in high impact journal but low quantity
2) ran by med onc, assistant professor at med school, large lab, multiple projects going (10+), good pub record (nature genetics, etc). again no guarantee to pub but more freedom/choice in projects=high chance of pub/multiple pubs

Both labs do great research that I am interested in and both PIs are great people that are willing to mentor me for the year.

I figured the LOR will carry much higher weight coming from the surgeon, but should I be focusing on the publication potential instead?

Thanks everyone in advanced

 

[doc05]

Hello everyone,
I am a MS3 going for gen surg.

I'm taking a year off to do basic science research at a renowned academic center for multiple reasons (interest in academia, waiting a year to couple match with SO, burned out).

It comes down to 2 labs.
1) ran by surgeon, associate professor at med school, chief of his service, but his lab is small with only 3 members and basically one big project that will most likely not finish by end of year. good pub record in high impact journal but low quantity
2) ran by med onc, assistant professor at med school, large lab, multiple projects going (10+), good pub record (nature genetics, etc). again no guarantee to pub but more freedom/choice in projects=high chance of pub/multiple pubs

Both labs do great research that I am interested in and both PIs are great people that are willing to mentor me for the year.

I figured the LOR will carry much higher weight coming from the surgeon, but should I be focusing on the publication potential instead?

Thanks everyone in advanced

no. work with the surgeon. you need mentoring and contacts in your field of interest. keep in mind you should also be able to find your way into some easy clinical projects and end up with a few papers and several abstracts by the end of the year.

p.s where EXACTLY are you considering? who are the PIs?

 

[midwestm2]

I have a question that is pertinent to this thread and also to upperclassmen med students thinking about more competitive specialties in general.

What is the consensus on the difference between 1 solid publication (say 1st author, with the chair of the department at the school/hospital, in a respectable journal) vs. 4 "weaker" publications (say like 5th or 6th author with a lesser known associate professor MD in less well known journals) ? I understand the higher quantity looks better at a glance on the ERAS app, but what about the intangibles of the situation (i.e. getting a letter of rec from the chair, having more to discuss about the research project because you had a larger role) ? Everyones 2 cents is appreciated!

 

[thedrjojo]

I have a question that is pertinent to this thread and also to upperclassmen med students thinking about more competitive specialties in general.

What is the consensus on the difference between 1 solid publication (say 1st author, with the chair of the department at the school/hospital, in a respectable journal) vs. 4 "weaker" publications (say like 5th or 6th author with a lesser known associate professor MD in less well known journals) ? I understand the higher quantity looks better at a glance on the ERAS app, but what about the intangibles of the situation (i.e. getting a letter of rec from the chair, having more to discuss about the research project because you had a larger role) ? Everyones 2 cents is appreciated!

Your comparison is false. That's one stellar pub vs 4 "are these really even publications?"

My lab experience (as a resident, 2 years in lab)... With my PI I have a primary author middle impact (impact factor about 4) first author paper, with a few first author more in the pipeline... That was why I went into the lab with him, his mentoring and quality research. But I also worked with our surg onc guy and have several other first author papers in lower impact journals (<2 and in some cases <1) that are primarily CV filler. What looks better? I think the answer is that both compliment each other, that neither looks as good without the other. If I had just the one, then it's, ok, he can complete a project. If it's just the crappy stuff, then it's ok, he wants to fill out his CV but not care about doing good work. With both, it's he can do a major project and not just wait around for that one but complete other side projects.

So to the op, you will get whatever you want out of either pi. Program directors will look for your dedication and productivity. Sure, a surgeon might be closer to home, but med students research is a plus for academic centers and as long as you can talk about why you like surgery, it really doesn't matter. If the surgeon pi has some notoriety, he can also give you other perks from his lab. But don't just sit on your hands on your primary project, get involved in other projects however you can. If you don't do dedicated in the surgeons basic science lab, ask if there's a clinical project you can spend some off time on, etc.

To the second poster's question, first author publications trump all. I've seen what it takes to be primary author vs what I'm willing to put people on as 4th or 5th for. When I've interviewed, I don't even recognize or look at those low pubs, cause I know the student probably just collected data or sat in on meetings and had nothing to do with the planning, critical thinking, or writing of the paper, but projects where they are 1st,2nd,or maybe even 3rd, I'll take more interest in.

Also, turn those abstracts into papers. As someone with way more abstracts than papers, it hurts me that I have so much work to still do, but that abstract is like just a teaser

 

[midwestm2]

@thedrjojo Thanks for clearing that up for me.. I basically just wanted to know: what's better, quantity or quality? And it seems like the answer is, both.

 

[deleted547339]

@thedrjojo Thanks for clearing that up for me.. I basically just wanted to know: what's better, quantity or quality? And it seems like the answer is, both.

Probably quality if you had to pick one over the other, but it's a double edged sword and, as above, the correct answer is truly both. If you put all your eggs in one basket and doesn't get published in time, you're kinda hosed.

 

[ANosyGuy]

So to the op, you will get whatever you want out of either pi. Program directors will look for your dedication and productivity. Sure, a surgeon might be closer to home, but med students research is a plus for academic centers and as long as you can talk about why you like surgery, it really doesn't matter. If the surgeon pi has some notoriety, he can also give you other perks from his lab. But don't just sit on your hands on your primary project, get involved in other projects however you can. If you don't do dedicated in the surgeons basic science lab, ask if there's a clinical project you can spend some off time on, etc.

Thank you for your very insightful reply drjojo, i have decided to go with the surgeon and try to get involved with clinical projects on the side, to make most of the year as you suggested. Best