Need some advice about how to spend my next 2 summers

[SlugMD]

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[xXIDaShizIXx]

If you have an internship, then jump on it. You can always shadow at other times, plus it looks good to have that on your application. Good luck!😀

 

[gettheleadout]

The 2 LOR's you would get from the physicians would be essentially secondary to the faculty and research advisor letters schools specifically request, and for that reason I would go with the internship for this summer at least.

 

[SlugMD]

If you have an internship, then jump on it. You can always shadow at other times, plus it looks good to have that on your application. Good luck!😀

I won't have be able to shadow during the school year because my school is around 10 miles from the nearest hospital which is why I only have 2 summer to get the clinical experience necessary to be a competitive applicant.

The 2 LOR's you would get from the physicians would be essentially secondary to the faculty and research advisor letters schools specifically request, and for that reason I would go with the internship for this summer at least.

So with that being said what would you recommend I do in my 2nd summer? 200 hours of shadowing or 3 extra months of research? Note, I will be studying for the MCAT that summer as well.

 

[gettheleadout]

So with that being said what would you recommend I do in my 2nd summer? 200 hours of shadowing or 3 extra months of research? Note, I will be studying for the MCAT that summer as well.

If you're interested in the shadowing because you want to have enough clinical experience, from your description of the internship it sounds like you'll get a great experience from that were you to do it this coming summer, so I wouldn't feel as if you need to spend the next summer getting more just for show. If you feel you've been exposed to enough of the profession to confirm your interest in it and can convey that sincerely, you've fulfilled the purpose behind "getting clinical experience." You won't really know that until after this summer though, if you do the internship that is.

Why are you interested in the research? Have you done research before and want to continue or do you want to use the next summer to get enough research experience to list on the application and?

Really though I don't know that I can confidently say what I would do the next summer, but I would definitely take the internship for this one.

 

[SlugMD]

If you're interested in the shadowing because you want to have enough clinical experience, from your description of the internship it sounds like you'll get a great experience from that were you to do it this coming summer, so I wouldn't feel as if you need to spend the next summer getting more just for show. If you feel you've been exposed to enough of the profession to confirm your interest in it and can convey that sincerely, you've fulfilled the purpose behind "getting clinical experience." You won't really know that until after this summer though, if you do the internship that is.

Why are you interested in the research? Have you done research before and want to continue or do you want to use the next summer to get enough research experience to list on the application and?

Really though I don't know that I can confidently say what I would do the next summer, but I would definitely take the internship for this one.

The thing is I have already volunteered in the ER plenty in high school and I have motivation to become a doctor from other sources (recently deceased ENT who was like a father to me, sick family, having gone through and seen their hardships)

I just don't want medical schools rejecting me because a lack of clinical experience. What kind of clinical experiences are top medical schools looking for? Would the internship be enough for them if I supplement it with tons of research and other EC's like being in a fraternity, student government, and tutoring?

I apologize if I am being too forthright about wanting to get into the best medical schools. It's just a desire and I want to know how I can best position myself.

 

[btown8908]

I would do the research because it shows your willingness to go above and beyond as well as maybe get your name (literally) out there if published. IMO, it would separate you from other med school candidates. I was lucky to have done research in a lab and I have learned a tremendous amount about not only an area I would never have considered in my early days but also about the scientific process! I'm not saying that the research experience would be better then doing service/shadowing at hospital, but a lot of other applicants will have clinical/shadow experience.

Your call in the end though. Good luck!

 

[gettheleadout]

The thing is I have already volunteered in the ER plenty in high school and I have motivation to become a doctor from other sources (recently deceased ENT who was like a father to me, sick family, having gone through and seen their hardships)

I just don't want medical schools rejecting me because a lack of clinical experience. What kind of clinical experiences are top medical schools looking for? Would the internship be enough for them if I supplement it with tons of research and other EC's like being in a fraternity, student government, and tutoring?

I apologize if I am being too forthright about wanting to get into the best medical schools. It's just a desire and I want to know how I can best position myself.

My impression is that it's more difficult to stand out through clinical experience than other things, so as far as what amount of clinical experience "top medical schools" are looking for I wouldn't imagine it's any more than other schools. From what you've said about the internship it sounds like an intensive clinical experience, so if I personally had that on my application I would not feel the need to add more for the sake of my application alone (if you still do not feel you've gotten the exposure you want after the internship, that's another story.)

Those additional EC's are common, but excelling in multiple areas will definitely help, as most people don't do all of the common EC's at once long term, though many do some of them to some degree. If you are shooting for top schools, research becomes more important for your application. Whether you've had research experience before or not, if I were in your position and did the internship this summer and felt like I got the exposure I wanted, I would not feel a need to shadow the following summer, and would either take the research opportunity (bearing in mind I personally have an interest in research) or something else.

 

[SlugMD]

My impression is that it's more difficult to stand out through clinical experience than other things, so as far as what amount of clinical experience "top medical schools" are looking for I wouldn't imagine it's any more than other schools. From what you've said about the internship it sounds like an intensive clinical experience, so if I personally had that on my application I would not feel the need to add more for the sake of my application alone (if you still do not feel you've gotten the exposure you want after the internship, that's another story.)

Those additional EC's are common, but excelling in multiple areas will definitely help, as most people don't do all of the common EC's at once long term, though many do some of them to some degree. If you are shooting for top schools, research becomes more important for your application. Whether you've had research experience before or not, if I were in your position and did the internship this summer and felt like I got the exposure I wanted, I would not feel a need to shadow the following summer, and would either take the research opportunity (bearing in mind I personally have an interest in research) or something else.

Here is a description of the program from their application:
Summer Scholars are placed with faculty preceptors who coordinate opportunities to observe or participate in the daily patient care activities of resident physicians. Student Scholars attend morning teaching conferences at the Medical Center, make rounds with medical staff and observe patient interactions and procedures as appropriate (i.e., live births, surgeries, emergency room visits, autopsies, etc.). Each of the Student Scholars becomes involved in a clinical research project. Some have presented their findings at the annual UCLA Family Medicine Research Forum.

What do you think?

And I guess you're right after this program, I don't think I'll really need any other exposure. It seems to encompass a lot.

I do have a question about what you said regarding my EC's. You said they were common yet you also said that most people don't do them all at once. So I'm guessing it would be good to do them all at once? Because I have heard that it's better to focus on a hand full of EC's long term then to join tons of club but not get very involved in them.

And no I have not had any previous research experience because I'm only a freshman. The lab that I'm going to enter next year focuses on enzymology and how mutations of DNA/RNA affect enzyme structure and function. A topic which I am greatly interested in if I may add.

 

[varsityblue]

If I were you, I'd pick the research internships for both summers and simply shadow during school breaks.

 

[SlugMD]

If I were you, I'd pick the research internships for both summers and simply shadow during school breaks.

Yeah that's what I'm probably going to do and wow I never thought about shadowing during winter break. I could probably get around 100 hours in the next 2 years just by doing that. Just a FYI, none of them are research internships, it's a clinical internship with a research project that I have an opportunity to present. And for my second summer it's researching with a professor at my school.

 

[jtdMU2010]

Take internships and research any day over shadowing. You are actually doing something with internships and research while shadowing is a passive event. You can shadow over breaks some. I feel shadowing is WAY over-emphasized by the pre-med community. I had maybe 30ish hours and got in. The rule of over 100 hours of shadowing is ludicrous. Shadowing is only beneficial to a certain point. You have no medical knowledge, can't apply anything and don't do anything. Just shadow some and get roughly 50 or so hours to be safe. Adcoms like it because it shows at least you have been exposed to what you want to do as a career. I recently shadowed some as a med student (after one semester) and still barely know anything that is relevant. Shadowing= so over-rated.

 

[gettheleadout]

Here is a description of the program from their application:
Summer Scholars are placed with faculty preceptors who coordinate opportunities to observe or participate in the daily patient care activities of resident physicians. Student Scholars attend morning teaching conferences at the Medical Center, make rounds with medical staff and observe patient interactions and procedures as appropriate (i.e., live births, surgeries, emergency room visits, autopsies, etc.). Each of the Student Scholars becomes involved in a clinical research project. Some have presented their findings at the annual UCLA Family Medicine Research Forum.

What do you think?

And I guess you're right after this program, I don't think I'll really need any other exposure. It seems to encompass a lot.

I do have a question about what you said regarding my EC's. You said they were common yet you also said that most people don't do them all at once. So I'm guessing it would be good to do them all at once? Because I have heard that it's better to focus on a hand full of EC's long term then to join tons of club but not get very involved in them.

And no I have not had any previous research experience because I'm only a freshman. The lab that I'm going to enter next year focuses on enzymology and how mutations of DNA/RNA affect enzyme structure and function. A topic which I am greatly interested in if I may add.

The internship description sounds great. In saying that those EC's are common I only mean that many applicants will have had some involvement with tutoring of some sort, and while student government involvement is not necessarily a common activity, it's a "normal" one for whatever that is worth, along with involvement in a fraternity or sorority. I definitely agree that you want to be constructive with your time; dividing your effort between a small handful of activities will allow you to personally get the most out of them, whereas trying to spread yourself out over a dozen commitments isn't helping you get a worthwhile experience or contribute to them to the best of your ability. Likewise, this seems to be perceived well by admissions committees, in that having meaningful, long term involvement with activities that speak to your character or growth is much preferable to having racked up as many resumé items as possible.

Take internships and research any day over shadowing. You are actually doing something with internships and research while shadowing is a passive event. You can shadow over breaks some. I feel shadowing is WAY over-emphasized by the pre-med community. I had maybe 30ish hours and got in. The rule of over 100 hours of shadowing is ludicrous. Shadowing is only beneficial to a certain point. You have no medical knowledge, can't apply anything and don't do anything. Just shadow some and get roughly 50 or so hours to be safe. Adcoms like it because it shows at least you have been exposed to what you want to do as a career. I recently shadowed some as a med student (after one semester) and still barely know anything that is relevant. Shadowing= so over-rated.

Catalystik (one of the Advisor users here in Pre-Allo) has stated before that around 40 hours is average.