Need some advice, bad!

[n618ft]

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Hey there - I'm new to this forum so I'll list some stuff that may be relative to my situation.

Age:24

Education: Florida Institute of Technology, BS in Aviation Management w/ Flight; med school prereqs done at UCF

Work: Flight instructor at FIT and Patrick AFB (Aero Club), SAAB 340 first officer for Colgan Air

GPA: c3.79/s3.91

MCAT: 29N (UGH... definitely a fluke but it is what it is!)

I applied to 30 MD programs for 2010 and another 2-3 DO programs that I'll have on the way soon. I've wanted to get a commission since before I was working at Patrick - but I had flying in mind then and I decided to take the airline job (boo).

I've only recently become aware of the HPSP and the FAP but I had some hold backs and questions and wanted to see what would be right for me. I have nothing against active duty, but I would rather serve in the reserves or national guard for 20 years than be in active duty. I saw that there's an ARNG program that doesn't do active duty but what about the ANG? Also, I heard it's possible to do your active duty commitment as a military residency... something like that would interest me and then I could just go to the reserves or ANG after, correct? Where are the active duty residencies? If I'm married at the time, what happens with the family? Gotta plan ahead 😀

Also, can I seek commission now on hopes of getting into med school or do I have to have a letter of acceptance in my hand? What about just getting the process started pending acceptance?

I'm a little lost in this process and don't want to get screwed by a recruiter.

 

[punkiedad]

Hey there - I'm new to this forum so I'll list some stuff that may be relative to my situation.

Age:24

Education: Florida Institute of Technology, BS in Aviation Management w/ Flight; med school prereqs done at UCF

Work: Flight instructor at FIT and Patrick AFB (Aero Club), SAAB 340 first officer for Colgan Air

GPA: c3.79/s3.91

MCAT: 29N (UGH... definitely a fluke but it is what it is!)

I applied to 30 MD programs for 2010 and another 2-3 DO programs that I'll have on the way soon. I've wanted to get a commission since before I was working at Patrick - but I had flying in mind then and I decided to take the airline job (boo).

I've only recently become aware of the HPSP and the FAP but I had some hold backs and questions and wanted to see what would be right for me. I have nothing against active duty, but I would rather serve in the reserves or national guard for 20 years than be in active duty. I saw that there's an ARNG program that doesn't do active duty but what about the ANG? Also, I heard it's possible to do your active duty commitment as a military residency... something like that would interest me and then I could just go to the reserves or ANG after, correct? Where are the active duty residencies? If I'm married at the time, what happens with the family? Gotta plan ahead 😀

Also, can I seek commission now on hopes of getting into med school or do I have to have a letter of acceptance in my hand? What about just getting the process started pending acceptance?

I'm a little lost in this process and don't want to get screwed by a recruiter.

I was also looking at HPSP and decided on the Guard's ASR program. There is an entire thread, kinda long, that tells you everything you ned to know. The first couple posts on the thread summarizes it very nicely. It is called the ARNG's new med student program on the milmed forum.

Other than that, there are some good programs for the Guard.

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Hey there - I'm new to this forum so I'll list some stuff that may be relative to my situation.

Age:24

Education: Florida Institute of Technology, BS in Aviation Management w/ Flight; med school prereqs done at UCF

Work: Flight instructor at FIT and Patrick AFB (Aero Club), SAAB 340 first officer for Colgan Air

GPA: c3.79/s3.91

MCAT: 29N (UGH... definitely a fluke but it is what it is!)

I applied to 30 MD programs for 2010 and another 2-3 DO programs that I'll have on the way soon. I've wanted to get a commission since before I was working at Patrick - but I had flying in mind then and I decided to take the airline job (boo).

I've only recently become aware of the HPSP and the FAP but I had some hold backs and questions and wanted to see what would be right for me. I have nothing against active duty, but I would rather serve in the reserves or national guard for 20 years than be in active duty. I saw that there's an ARNG program that doesn't do active duty but what about the ANG? Also, I heard it's possible to do your active duty commitment as a military residency... something like that would interest me and then I could just go to the reserves or ANG after, correct? Where are the active duty residencies? If I'm married at the time, what happens with the family? Gotta plan ahead 😀

Also, can I seek commission now on hopes of getting into med school or do I have to have a letter of acceptance in my hand? What about just getting the process started pending acceptance?

I'm a little lost in this process and don't want to get screwed by a recruiter.

Only those destined for active duty can do a military residency. Reservists and Guardsmen are not eligible. This is a good thing because many of the military residencies do not provide nearly as good of training as civilian residencies do. Plus, you don't have to worry about having to put your training on hold to do a GMO tour. The ARNG has much better incentives for medical students than the ANG. As a medical student, ANG will only give you drill pay, while ARNG will offer you 3 years active duty pay or drill pay plus a stipend. Incentives for residents are the same I believe.

 

[n618ft]

I checked the ARNG and ANG programs and both appeal to me. I'm not worried about getting the most money I can out of them - I'm looking at flexibility + being able to serve a bit and it seems like both of these programs are right up my alley. Should I go talk to a recruiter or should I wait till I'm accepted somewhere then talk directly to a base? I've got over a year between now and potentially starting med school and I wouldn't mind getting the ball rolling either way!

 

[del Sol DOHC]

I checked the ARNG and ANG programs and both appeal to me. I'm not worried about getting the most money I can out of them - I'm looking at flexibility + being able to serve a bit and it seems like both of these programs are right up my alley. Should I go talk to a recruiter or should I wait till I'm accepted somewhere then talk directly to a base? I've got over a year between now and potentially starting med school and I wouldn't mind getting the ball rolling either way!

You are correct in that both the ARNG and the ANG are flexible enough that you can serve while still maintaining a civilian life. That is the biggest draw to the reserve forces, and it is why I enjoy reserve life way more than I did active duty life. Being a physician in the Air National Guard or the Army National Guard is essentially the same experience. In fact, no matter which one you chose, you will fall under the same State commander. The cultures are a bit different, though. ARNG will likely seem a bit more "military". The Army uniforms are much better looking too. The Air Force service dress makes you look like an airline pilot. All in all, if both services appeal to you, then it only makes sense to select the one that will give you more money. I will be choosing the ARNG.

You can talk to a recruiter now, but you cannot really start the ball rolling until you have an unconditional acceptance in hand.

 

[n618ft]

Ok so after researching HPSP, the ARNG, and ANG programs, I think I'm sticking with ARNG... please correct me if I'm wrong.

HPSP: I want to go to a state school... so the free tuition isn't a big deal and the $16k a year stipend isn't motivating me much - if I got married and had a kid in the next 5 years, that would suck. The 20k bonus is cool but it's a one time thing. So I'm pretty much giving them 4 years of active duty in exchange for chump change. Why not just take on the in-state tuition debt and commission after graduation and pay off the loans with the bonus?! Heck, I'll always have the option to go active. This just doesn't add up. If I agreed to go to a cheap instate school with the promise of O-1 pay while in it, I'd be all over it.

A few more things that concern me... you've got a much greater chance of being deployed or on a GMO where your family won't be there, correct? I thought the Navy Flight Surgeon was a cool GMO since my previous job was an airline pilot/instructor 😎. Might be easier to get into. Heck, if I get to go to UPT (I had my packet ready to submit 2 years ago but decided to do med prereqs), I'm in!

ANG: $7k a year + some loan repayment and a bit of drilling money... again, no $ to really live off of, but I'd come out with a lot less debt at a state school (good against compounding interest) and I'm still a civilian.

ARNG: Money to live off of for 3 years + save some for the 4th year + the option for more. I'll be able to pay off my loans quickly w/ the salary I'll make coming out of residency and I can always try the active thing.

USUHS: I looked at it and the forced 7 year active commitment AFTER residency is a bit too much. I'll be 41. Again, I don't mind going active but committing this early for 4 + 5 + 7+++ is a lot.

 

[NavyFP]

Ok so after researching HPSP, the ARNG, and ANG programs, I think I'm sticking with ARNG... please correct me if I'm wrong.

HPSP: I want to go to a state school... so the free tuition isn't a big deal and the $16k a year stipend isn't motivating me much - if I got married and had a kid in the next 5 years, that would suck. The 20k bonus is cool but it's a one time thing. So I'm pretty much giving them 4 years of active duty in exchange for chump change. Why not just take on the in-state tuition debt and commission after graduation and pay off the loans with the bonus?! Heck, I'll always have the option to go active. This just doesn't add up. If I agreed to go to a cheap instate school with the promise of O-1 pay while in it, I'd be all over it.

A few more things that concern me... you've got a much greater chance of being deployed or on a GMO where your family won't be there, correct? I thought the Navy Flight Surgeon was a cool GMO since my previous job was an airline pilot/instructor 😎. Might be easier to get into. Heck, if I get to go to UPT (I had my packet ready to submit 2 years ago but decided to do med prereqs), I'm in!

ANG: $7k a year + some loan repayment and a bit of drilling money... again, no $ to really live off of, but I'd come out with a lot less debt at a state school (good against compounding interest) and I'm still a civilian.

ARNG: Money to live off of for 3 years + save some for the 4th year + the option for more. I'll be able to pay off my loans quickly w/ the salary I'll make coming out of residency and I can always try the active thing.

USUHS: I looked at it and the forced 7 year active commitment AFTER residency is a bit too much. I'll be 41. Again, I don't mind going active but committing this early for 4 + 5 + 7+++ is a lot.

There is one program you have not listed and that is HSCP. HSCP is a Navy program which gives you acitive duty pay and allowances at the E-6 level (with promotion to E7 if you make Deans list) but does not pay tuition. The time in medical school counts towards pay and retirement. You get full medical and dental coverage just like active duty members (because you are on active duty. ) If you are in the program 4 years and 1 day, when you graduate you are an O-3E over 4 for pay purposes. For students going to cheap state schools, this is a better option.

 

[mmcnamara]

Hey there - I'm new to this forum so I'll list some stuff that may be relative to my situation.

Age:24

Education: Florida Institute of Technology, BS in Aviation Management w/ Flight; med school prereqs done at UCF

Work: Flight instructor at FIT and Patrick AFB (Aero Club), SAAB 340 first officer for Colgan Air

GPA: c3.79/s3.91

MCAT: 29N (UGH... definitely a fluke but it is what it is!)

I applied to 30 MD programs for 2010 and another 2-3 DO programs that I'll have on the way soon. I've wanted to get a commission since before I was working at Patrick - but I had flying in mind then and I decided to take the airline job (boo).

I've only recently become aware of the HPSP and the FAP but I had some hold backs and questions and wanted to see what would be right for me. I have nothing against active duty, but I would rather serve in the reserves or national guard for 20 years than be in active duty. I saw that there's an ARNG program that doesn't do active duty but what about the ANG? Also, I heard it's possible to do your active duty commitment as a military residency... something like that would interest me and then I could just go to the reserves or ANG after, correct? Where are the active duty residencies? If I'm married at the time, what happens with the family? Gotta plan ahead 😀

Also, can I seek commission now on hopes of getting into med school or do I have to have a letter of acceptance in my hand? What about just getting the process started pending acceptance?

I'm a little lost in this process and don't want to get screwed by a recruiter.

One thing that no one here is mentioning...the residency/internship training years, civilian or military, DO NOT count towards your obligation, because you are not actually working as a fully trained physician...it's considered additional education. Your obligation begins the day after you finish your internship/residency. For instance, if you went HPSP and had them pay for all 4 years of med school, then went into a residency for 4 years, you would not complete your obligation until 4 years after graduation of your residency, making your total time in service to be counted towards retirement 12 years (4 for med school, 4 for residency, and 4 for your obligation).

 

[mmcnamara]

Hey there - I'm new to this forum so I'll list some stuff that may be relative to my situation.

Age:24

Education: Florida Institute of Technology, BS in Aviation Management w/ Flight; med school prereqs done at UCF

Work: Flight instructor at FIT and Patrick AFB (Aero Club), SAAB 340 first officer for Colgan Air

GPA: c3.79/s3.91

MCAT: 29N (UGH... definitely a fluke but it is what it is!)

I applied to 30 MD programs for 2010 and another 2-3 DO programs that I'll have on the way soon. I've wanted to get a commission since before I was working at Patrick - but I had flying in mind then and I decided to take the airline job (boo).

I've only recently become aware of the HPSP and the FAP but I had some hold backs and questions and wanted to see what would be right for me. I have nothing against active duty, but I would rather serve in the reserves or national guard for 20 years than be in active duty. I saw that there's an ARNG program that doesn't do active duty but what about the ANG? Also, I heard it's possible to do your active duty commitment as a military residency... something like that would interest me and then I could just go to the reserves or ANG after, correct? Where are the active duty residencies? If I'm married at the time, what happens with the family? Gotta plan ahead 😀

Also, can I seek commission now on hopes of getting into med school or do I have to have a letter of acceptance in my hand? What about just getting the process started pending acceptance?

I'm a little lost in this process and don't want to get screwed by a recruiter.

Also, just a little advice...I am not sure what your extracurricular activities were in school, but you didn't mention volunteering anywhere or doing any research or having ANY medical experience whatsoever, and your MCAT is mediocre. I am not sure if you would be competitive at the only two state med schools in Florida - FSU or UF. FSU actually does not have a truly independent school, as they funnel their med students through UF for their clinical rotations. Or at least they did when I was applying for schools in 2000. Both are very hard to get into. I had volunteered, done a year of research at a lab, did research for two summers at NASA, worked as a medical technologist, had a 3.89 gpa and had a 31 mcat score, and I didn't get into either one. I actually got into a private out of state school that had an exorbitant tuition. I just got on the alternate list at UF. I am also a florida state resident who is actually from Melbourne near where you are. I would retake the MCAT and volunteer at a hospital.

PS.
Don't do any of the military scholarship programs unless you are prepared to pass pt tests, possibly do GMO, possibly not be able to get a residency that you want, not be able to do any subspecialty training, etc.

 

[dwb8p]

Also, just a little advice...I am not sure what your extracurricular activities were in school, but you didn't mention volunteering anywhere or doing any research or having ANY medical experience whatsoever, and your MCAT is mediocre. I am not sure if you would be competitive at the only two state med schools in Florida - FSU or UF. FSU actually does not have a truly independent school, as they funnel their med students through UF for their clinical rotations. Or at least they did when I was applying for schools in 2000. Both are very hard to get into. I had volunteered, done a year of research at a lab, did research for two summers at NASA, worked as a medical technologist, had a 3.89 gpa and had a 31 mcat score, and I didn't get into either one. I actually got into a private out of state school that had an exorbitant tuition. I just got on the alternate list at UF. I am also a florida state resident who is actually from Melbourne near where you are. I would retake the MCAT and volunteer at a hospital.

PS.
Don't do any of the military scholarship programs unless you are prepared to pass pt tests, possibly do GMO, possibly not be able to get a residency that you want, not be able to do any subspecialty training, etc.

You are awesome at the internets.

+1 point for responding to a 3 month old thread.
+1 for splitting your comments into two consecutive posts with massive quotes.

 

[DocArmy]

One thing that no one here is mentioning...the residency/internship training years, civilian or military, DO NOT count towards your obligation, because you are not actually working as a fully trained physician...it's considered additional education. Your obligation begins the day after you finish your internship/residency. For instance, if you went HPSP and had them pay for all 4 years of med school, then went into a residency for 4 years, you would not complete your obligation until 4 years after graduation of your residency, making your total time in service to be counted towards retirement 12 years (4 for med school, 4 for residency, and 4 for your obligation).

And, not to split hairs, but the 4 years of medical school do not count as AD time. (Except for USUHS, which is retroactive) An 4 yr HPSP student, after 4 yr residency, will have 4 years in and 4 to go on their obligation.

I have heard conflicting reports on whether or not the 4 years HPSP count toward Reserve time, since you are on AD for 45 days a year, etc.

 

[teacherman84]

I am not sure if you would be competitive at the only two state med schools in Florida - FSU or UF. FSU actually does not have a truly independent school, as they funnel their med students through UF for their clinical rotations.

Only two state med schools in FL? Thats not even half of the state schools we have and even more with the private and DO.

Also, again very insightful into military medicine

 

[TheGoose]

Only two state med schools in FL? Thats not even half of the state schools we have and even more with the private and DO.

Also, again very insightful into military medicine

Florida International University, Florida State, Central Florida, University of Florida, University of South Florida, and University of Miami (they just recently accepted funds from the state and now are giving in-state preference)

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

For instance, if you went HPSP and had them pay for all 4 years of med school, then went into a residency for 4 years, you would not complete your obligation until 4 years after graduation of your residency, making your total time in service to be counted towards retirement 12 years (4 for med school, 4 for residency, and 4 for your obligation).

WRONG, med school does not in any way shape or form count toward retirement in HPSP. In the above scenario, the person would have 8 years toward retirement.

 

[TheGoose]

WRONG, med school does not in any way shape or form count toward retirement in HPSP. In the above scenario, the person would have 8 years toward retirement.

Boomshakalaka

 

[J-Rad]

WRONG, med school does not in any way shape or form count toward retirement in HPSP. In the above scenario, the person would have 8 years toward retirement.

Be careful when applying your knowledge of one service broadly accross other services. There is an obscure provision in the Air Force Reserve that HPSP time may be credited toward reserve retirement in certain cases in which the reservist is in a "critical" field. I am not aware of any similar provision toward active duty retirement and HPSP.

 

[mmcnamara]

And, not to split hairs, but the 4 years of medical school do not count as AD time. (Except for USUHS, which is retroactive) An 4 yr HPSP student, after 4 yr residency, will have 4 years in and 4 to go on their obligation.

I have heard conflicting reports on whether or not the 4 years HPSP count toward Reserve time, since you are on AD for 45 days a year, etc.

You are right. I clarified this through the AR 135-101, which states that time after the qualifying degree is to be counted. Not time while getting the degree.

 

[mmcnamara]

Florida International University, Florida State, Central Florida, University of Florida, University of South Florida, and University of Miami (they just recently accepted funds from the state and now are giving in-state preference)

FIU is verrry new (2004), so it therefore didn't exist when I was in florida last. Same thing for UCF which was established in 2006. Both were after my time. At the time that I was applying in 2000, neither of these programs existed. I had forgotten about the U of South Fl program. U of Miami is a private school, and I left it off his list, since he had just mentioned wanting to go to public schools.

 

[mmcnamara]

WRONG, med school does not in any way shape or form count toward retirement in HPSP. In the above scenario, the person would have 8 years toward retirement.

Sorry...I looked in AR601-141, and you are absolutely right. I misinterpreted their mumbo-jumbo. My apologies.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Sorry...I looked in AR601-141, and you are absolutely right. I misinterpreted their mumbo-jumbo. My apologies.

So when someone else doesn't understand the process or is unhappy, it's because they are whiners, but when you (someone who was enlisted for seven years, with three re-locations and mulitple deployments who worked for 60 hours straight and understands the military life) can't understand it, it's just "mumbo-jumbo"?

 

[sethco]

I have heard conflicting reports on whether or not the 4 years HPSP count toward Reserve time, since you are on AD for 45 days a year, etc.

This is correct.

The 4 years spent in HPSP count towards retirement for AD if you are in for 20 years already (i.e. you will then have 24 years in). However, it will count towards the 20 if you are going in the Guard/Reserve.

Using myself as an example...

4 Years HPSP + 4 Years as a AD Flight Surgeon + 4 Years as a Guard/Reserve FS (While in residency) = 12 "good" years towards retirement

 

[TheGoose]

FIU is verrry new (2004), so it therefore didn't exist when I was in florida last. Same thing for UCF which was established in 2006. Both were after my time. At the time that I was applying in 2000, neither of these programs existed. I had forgotten about the U of South Fl program. U of Miami is a private school, and I left it off his list, since he had just mentioned wanting to go to public schools.

how is that your response for making a blatantly wrong statement? You didn't make the comment that Florida had only 2 med schools in 2000....you made it 2 days ago. ...I guess it's just mumbo-jumbo. If there's any response I won't be seeing it because I'll now be ignoring all your posts. =D

 

[mmcnamara]

So when someone else doesn't understand the process or is unhappy, it's because they are whiners, but when you (someone who was enlisted for seven years, with three re-locations and mulitple deployments who worked for 60 hours straight and understands the military life) can't understand it, it's just "mumbo-jumbo"?

Gawd...military regulations have always been mumbo-jumbo in the way that they explain things. Have you tried to sift through them? Besides, someone complaining about being in the military when they made the choice, is still someone who should just try to make the best of it. A vast majority of military members, both enlisted and officer, were lied to by their recruiter or didn't understand what they were getting into, but the experience is what you make it. There are A**holes and BS everywhere you go. There were aspects that I enjoyed myself. But I am honestly getting the impression that there is NOT the same unit cohesion or comraderie in the medical corp that I experienced in my previous experience. It's too bad. I think that it could be a great experience, and I think that some of the posters on this site might have better opinions if they had that.

 

[mmcnamara]

how is that your response for making a blatantly wrong statement? You didn't make the comment that Florida had only 2 med schools in 2000....you made it 2 days ago. ...I guess it's just mumbo-jumbo. If there's any response I won't be seeing it because I'll now be ignoring all your posts. =D

boo-hoo 🙁 I think that I am hurt...NOT

 

[teacherman84]

that joke was hilarious ten years ago...NOT

this guy is in everythread stirring it up...and its all the same...no rules against annoying?

Anyway...I have never heard what sethco stated before...The 4 years spent in HPSP count towards retirement for AD if you are in for 20 years already (i.e. you will then have 24 years in). However, it will count towards the 20 if you are going in the Guard/Reserve.

I know this is the case for USUHS but was told it was not the case with HPSP since it wasnt active duty

 

[deuist]

Anyway...I have never heard what sethco stated before...The 4 years spent in HPSP count towards retirement for AD if you are in for 20 years already (i.e. you will then have 24 years in). However, it will count towards the 20 if you are going in the Guard/Reserve.

I know this is the case for USUHS but was told it was not the case with HPSP since it wasnt active duty

That's the way I understood it, too. HPSP doesn't give you any credit toward retirement, retroactive or otherwise.

 

[backrow]

The only potential credit I can see you getting towards retirement for HPSP time is the active duty training time (45 days a year). So at 20 you may potentially have an additional half year or so.

I do not know if this is correct, but that is how it works for my prior reserve time. I get day for day credit (not HPSP time) for the days I was actually on orders. I get no credit towards the other days of the year, except if I were to go back to a reserve retirement, then some other credits would kick back in.

 

[DocArmy]

Anyway...I have never heard what sethco stated before...The 4 years spent in HPSP count towards retirement for AD if you are in for 20 years already (i.e. you will then have 24 years in). However, it will count towards the 20 if you are going in the Guard/Reserve.

I know this is the case for USUHS but was told it was not the case with HPSP since it wasnt active duty

I thought the same thing. USUHS counted retroactively, but HPSP did not. My confusion came as to whether or not the 4 years of HPSP were added as reserve time in order to calculate time in at retirement. When my dad retired from AGR, all of his reserve time was added (one weekend a month and summer camp for all of the years he was reserve). So, HPSP would hypothetically yield an extra 180 days of AD time at retirement. No confirmation on that though.