Need some advice for structuring the rest of my UG to be competitive for med school.

[SilentAnon_404]

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Hi all,

I'm current a 3rd year biochem UG student at UCD. Current GPA is 3.55 (sGPA = 3.45), but can get it to the 3.6 range during my senior year (if my current positive trend keeps up).

So far, I have a lot of research experience that I'm continuing. I am currently in a cancer research program at my school. With how things are going in my lab and how I'm favored by my lab mentor, I am on track to getting publications (with me being a secondary/tertiary author).

However, besides research, I don't currently have other ECs. I planned on doing several things my sophomore year but due to covid, those plans got ruined. I have to keep increasing my GPA, so besides research, I'm not sure I can add in too many other activities right now (have to take classes over the summer as well as I'm slightly short of credits). Possibly I can do shadowing over the summer, is that worth starting now?

My plan is this: take a 2 year gap year after senior year. I plan on doing shadowing, getting clinical experience, and non-clinical volunteering during that time. Ofcourse, most importantly, I will also take that time to study for the MCAT.

I need to know if this is a good plan as of now, and if I am I overlooking anything? Any further advice is appreciated.

Oh, and I forgot about LORs. I can get 1 from my PI, 1 from my program instructor. Senior year I'll try to work towards bonding with a couple science professors. However, I have no one currently that I can get non science LOR from and I don't know how I will get one either.

 

[chilly_md]

Yes, you should probably take the gap years. Ensure you get good grades going forward. Right now, your application is more suited for a PhD student than somebody wanting to pursue medicine. You should probably start shadowing this summer to see if being a physician is what you would enjoy doing. Likewise with getting some hospital volunteering experience maybe if you can cut back a few hours with your research.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Yes, you should probably take the gap years. Ensure you get good grades going forward. Right now, your application is more suited for a PhD student than somebody wanting to pursue medicine. You should probably start shadowing this summer to see if being a physician is what you would enjoy doing. Likewise with getting some hospital volunteering experience maybe if you can cut back a few hours with your research.

Thanks for the advice. The problem is that I cant simply cut back my hours on research, as the program I'm in requires a minimum amount of hours for it. Also, it would be really bad if I don't end up getting any publications out of it, so I'm kind of at a make or break point with it, haha.

You're right though, as I need to get hospital experience. I just have a lot of difficulty trying to fit it in during classes and not have it affect my GPA. If its maybe something flexible, I could.

Also, do you know what my chances would be for an MD/PhD program? I know my GPA is pretty low for that.

 

[chilly_md]

Thanks for the advice. The problem is that I cant simply cut back my hours on research, as the program I'm in requires a minimum amount of hours for it. Also, it would be really bad if I don't end up getting any publications out of it, so I'm kind of at a make or break point with it, haha.

You're right though, as I need to get hospital experience. I just have a lot of difficulty trying to fit it in during classes and not have it affect my GPA. If its maybe something flexible, I could.

Also, do you know what my chances would be for an MD/PhD program? I know my GPA is pretty low for that.

I see, yeah then you wouldn’t want to run into trouble for that. Remember, you don’t need publications. It’s hard to get those as a student even with 1000 hours of research because it can take a long time to get good results with bench lab work. Might be best to have something that’s just a small volunteer commitment that you can do if next semester is a lighter course load.

I am not too familiar with MD/PhD admissions, but they tend to have very competitive candidates from a stats perspective and there are far fewer seats for them. You haven’t taken the MCAT yet and the application process still goes through AMCAS where you list activities and their descriptions as well as a personal statement. So it would be best to improve and progress on your journey before seeing whether MD or MD/PhD makes the most sense.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

I see, yeah then you wouldn’t want to run into trouble for that. Remember, you don’t need publications. It’s hard to get those as a student even with 1000 hours of research because it can take a long time to get good results with bench lab work. Might be best to have something that’s just a small volunteer commitment that you can do if next semester is a lighter course load.

I am not too familiar with MD/PhD admissions, but they tend to have very competitive candidates from a stats perspective and there are far fewer seats for them. You haven’t taken the MCAT yet and the application process still goes through AMCAS where you list activities and their descriptions as well as a personal statement. So it would be best to improve and progress on your journey before seeing whether MD or MD/PhD makes the most sense.

Thank you for the insight. On that note, how bad would it look if let's say I end up completing ~2000 hrs of research but no publication by the time I graduate?

Next quarter for me will be unfortunately my toughest, as I'll have to do my last class in the OChem and physics series. Summer I may have time tho. Can you give me examples of what some good, small type of volunteer work would look like?

 

[chilly_md]

Thank you for the insight. On that note, how bad would it look if let's say I end up completing ~2000 hrs of research but no publication by the time I graduate?

Next quarter for me will be unfortunately my toughest, as I'll have to do my last class in the OChem and physics series. Summer I may have time tho. Can you give me examples of what some good, small type of volunteer work would look like?

If you have an undergrad thesis, poster presentations or abstracts, those would still count. I think it’s out of your control so better to not worry about no publication after 2000 hours. I hope you get one because while research is nice, that’s a lot more hours than medical schools usually care for. They look more at clinical experience and non clinical volunteering.

Volunteer work is dependent on what’s available to you in your area. If there’s hospitals near by, you could do a 1x a week shift starting in summer for a few hours. Or try to volunteer for hospice, that’s probably something that’s flexible and can be 4 or so hours one day of the week. Non-clinically, you could do a shift at a soup kitchen for example one day of the week. As a volunteer, you have more flexibility vs a paid gig like scribe or CNA.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

If you have an undergrad thesis, poster presentations or abstracts, those would still count. I think it’s out of your control so better to not worry about no publication after 2000 hours. I hope you get one because while research is nice, that’s a lot more hours than medical schools usually care for. They look more at clinical experience and non clinical volunteering.

Volunteer work is dependent on what’s available to you in your area. If there’s hospitals near by, you could do a 1x a week shift starting in summer for a few hours. Or try to volunteer for hospice, that’s probably something that’s flexible and can be 4 or so hours one day of the week. Non-clinically, you could do a shift at a soup kitchen for example one day of the week. As a volunteer, you have more flexibility vs a paid gig like scribe or CNA.

This is all very helpful! Yes, I plan on doing several poster presentations regarding my research at pretty big UG conferences. I also have an abstract, but not an UG thesis. Is that something worth looking into?

So from the looks of it, it seems like I can get some hospital experience and volunteering this summer. My only issue is finding a hospital/talking to them for them to allow me to do it. I really don't know how to go about it, and my friend has told me it's very hard to get accepted into clinical positions.

 

[chilly_md]

This is all very helpful! Yes, I plan on doing several poster presentations regarding my research at pretty big UG conferences. I also have an abstract, but not an UG thesis. Is that something worth looking into?

So from the looks of it, it seems like I can get some hospital experience and volunteering this summer. My only issue is finding a hospital/talking to them for them to allow me to do it. I really don't know how to go about it, and my friend has told me it's very hard to get accepted into clinical positions.

Those are all good then. An UG thesis is just something I’ve seen pop up sometimes depending on which school a student went to. It might be sort of common at yours and thus an option if you’re interested, but if it’s unheard of, that’s fine to not do anything like that.

Hospital wise, it is dependent on how big they are and if there are many premeds there who could also be there volunteering. I would just look around and check the websites of the large ones near you. They may already have a program or application to fill out. Any hospice facility is likely to have a greater need for volunteers since most students don’t think of it. May have to call them for volunteering since they may not be as big.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Those are all good then. An UG thesis is just something I’ve seen pop up sometimes depending on which school a student went to. It might be sort of common at yours and thus an option if you’re interested, but if it’s unheard of, that’s fine to not do anything like that.

Hospital wise, it is dependent on how big they are and if there are many premeds there who could also be there volunteering. I would just look around and check the websites of the large ones near you. They may already have a program or application to fill out. Any hospice facility is likely to have a greater need for volunteers since most students don’t think of it. May have to call them for volunteering since they may not be as big.

So I looked it up and my university actually has a hospice facility (UC Davis Hospice Program) and it says that they have a team of doctors, nurses, professionals, and volunteers.
I actually am interested in potentially working in a medical field dealing with such patients, so that's why I'm thinking this may be a good opportunity. My only issue then would be if medical schools treat hospice experience the same as normal clinical experience?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm going to ask what to me is an obvious question: UCD is a pretty darn good undergrad program and has a very solid medical school. I don't really understand why you didn't do any volunteering or clinical exposure. Yes, UCD is a research powerhouse too, which still makes me curious as to what advice you have received from the prehealth office there. You can't bank everythinig on research unless that's the career direction you really want to go (and nothing wrong with that).

In general it sounds like your plan is solid, but if you're going into some gap years, really focus on FULL-TIME clinical employment to make up for the lack of exposure you have or was unable to have due to the pandemic. Also really consider some volunteering opportunities when you no longer have a safety net of undergraduate clubs (that organize such things) and that you can also be "all in" but does not have to do with healthcare (because you'll get enough of that). You have a lot of opportunities around you now, and it surprises me that you haven't taken advantage of it or need someone to direct you.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

I'm going to ask what to me is an obvious question: UCD is a pretty darn good undergrad program and has a very solid medical school. I don't really understand why you didn't do any volunteering or clinical exposure. Yes, UCD is a research powerhouse too, which still makes me curious as to what advice you have received from the prehealth office there. You can't bank everythinig on research unless that's the career direction you really want to go (and nothing wrong with that).

In general it sounds like your plan is solid, but if you're going into some gap years, really focus on FULL-TIME clinical employment to make up for the lack of exposure you have or was unable to have due to the pandemic. Also really consider some volunteering opportunities when you no longer have a safety net of undergraduate clubs (that organize such things) and that you can also be "all in" but does not have to do with healthcare (because you'll get enough of that). You have a lot of opportunities around you now, and it surprises me that you haven't taken advantage of it or need someone to direct you.

As I mentioned, the pandemic happened. That's all there really is to it from what prevented me from doing it. This year (junior year) I'm taking some of my toughest classes plus research. They have to lockdown several times during the 1st two quarters anyways.

I haven't talked to the pre health office there, besides attending an orientation meeting freshmen year. All they said was the standard stuff and that they recommend taking 1 year gap year at least.

It also isnt as easy to simply get into those opportunities here, despite there being many of them. My friend who got into a clinical position said it was very selection and she only got in because she could speak vietnamese. Additionally, the current research program I'm in accepts only about 5% of the students who apply.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

You're doing cancer research: your PI or other faculty in your area have no connection with any clinical researchers? (Which is possible but sometimes a PI can help.)

 

[SilentAnon_404]

You're doing cancer research: your PI or other faculty in your area have no connection with any clinical researchers? (Which is possible but sometimes a PI can help.)

Hmm it's possible, I can ask him. My PI actually researches DNA repair genes and recently he's been doing their implications on cancer research (so it may be more secondary), but he's the department chair of the molecular biology field in our UC and overall a very big deal, so I think he might be able to know people.

Other than that, it seems like I'll have to do cold turkey approach to clinics and they are already very saturated with premeds, so it will be insanely competitive. Other options are nearby clinics and as a commenter previously mentioned, a hospice. Those are also places I'm interested in working at.

 

[chilly_md]

So I looked it up and my university actually has a hospice facility (UC Davis Hospice Program) and it says that they have a team of doctors, nurses, professionals, and volunteers.
I actually am interested in potentially working in a medical field dealing with such patients, so that's why I'm thinking this may be a good opportunity. My only issue then would be if medical schools treat hospice experience the same as normal clinical experience?

Hospice is good clinical experience that a lot of schools think highly of since it puts students in a unique situation compared to most clinical settings.

If you live near Sacramento, I would advise extending your search there to seek full time employment at other hospitals like Mr. Smile has suggested during your gap years. Do that if you find that being a doctor is what you still want to do this summer/fall after shadowing and being at a hospice. Otherwise, pursuing a career in biomedical research might be something that aligns with your interests more.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

Hospice is good clinical experience that a lot of schools think highly of since it puts students in a unique situation compared to most clinical settings.

If you live near Sacramento, I would advise extending your search there to seek full time employment at other hospitals like Mr. Smile has suggested during your gap years. Do that if you find that being a doctor is what you still want to do this summer/fall after shadowing and being at a hospice. Otherwise, pursuing a career in biomedical research might be something that aligns with your interests more.

Sounds like a solid plan. Sac is a 30 min drive from my place or UCD (kind of in the middle), so I'm definitely down for that during gap year 1. My only concern would be that it has to be a paid position then.

This summer, I will try hospice volunteering along with some shadowing.

Thanks for all the advice guys, really set me up for now!

 

[candbgirl]

You know what? Just do what you are planning to do. After you graduate you can decide what to do next. As @chilly_md said, you are more interested in PhD. You really seem to have no interest in medicine. You are so concerned with getting a publication(s) that stuff you absolutely need for a med school application is insignificant to you. You have lots of reasons and excuses for not doing shadowing, clinical experiences and nonclinical volunteering. But to have a competitive application you have to have them even if you have 1000s of hours research.
Why do you want to be a doctor? Why do you want to spend the next 35+ years dealing with the sick, injured and dying?
Maybe things will crystallize over the next few years and then you can build a competitive application for either med school or PhD programs. There is no hurry to decide.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

You know what? Just do what you are planning to do. After you graduate you can decide what to do next. As @chilly_md said, you are more interested in PhD. You really seem to have no interest in medicine. You are so concerned with getting a publication(s) that stuff you absolutely need for a med school application is insignificant to you. You have lots of reasons and excuses for not doing shadowing, clinical experiences and nonclinical volunteering. But to have a competitive application you have to have them even if you have 1000s of hours research.
Why do you want to be a doctor? Why do you want to spend the next 35+ years dealing with the sick, injured and dying?
Maybe things will crystallize over the next few years and then you can build a competitive application for either med school or PhD programs. There is no hurry to decide.

Woah there, that's a lot of assumptions!

 

[chilly_md]

@candbgirl is putting it straight to the point. I would encourage you to make sure you understand what medicine is, which you said you plan on doing this summer. There are many apps from people who had thousands of hours of research with little to no clinical experience or non-clinical volunteering. I remember listening to one admissions dean on a podcast and she said the last thing they want is to have their school be the trial ground for whether a research oriented applicant actually wants to pursue medicine and deal with patients.

That is why I recommended starting now since the gap years may prove to be unnecessary if medicine doesn’t really match what you want to do. Would be better to go into your 4th year or last semester knowing whether you should be trying to get a clinical job or doing something in a completely different direction.

 

[SilentAnon_404]

@candbgirl is putting it straight to the point. I would encourage you to make sure you understand what medicine is, which you said you plan on doing this summer. There are many apps from people who had thousands of hours of research with little to no clinical experience or non-clinical volunteering. I remember listening to one admissions dean on a podcast and she said the last thing they want is to have their school be the trial ground for whether a research oriented applicant actually wants to pursue medicine and deal with patients.

That is why I recommended starting now since the gap years may prove to be unnecessary if medicine doesn’t really match what you want to do. Would be better to go into your 4th year or last semester knowing whether you should be trying to get a clinical job or doing something in a completely different direction.

Fair enough, that sounds reasonable.