Needing a pep talk/confirmation

[Yehoshua24]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

So I've been a bit of a lurker to this board for a while but I'm in need of a peer review.

In '03 i was married and graduated in '06 with a BA in pastoral ministry. Graduated with a poor GPA (below 2.5) for many reasons, none which really matter at this time. Been working in technology fulltime since '06 and I'm doing well for supporting my family. In '09 I caught the bug and knew that med school was where I needed to go. So I worked full time and took classes part time to meet medical prerequisites. My cGPA is at a 2.49 now and my sGPA is 3.6. Took the MCAT in 2012 and got 26 (8p 8v 10b). Applied to 3 schools last round and rejected without an interview. Retook the MCAT this July got a 31 (9p 11v 11b). I applied to about 20 schools this cycle and I got 14 secondaries and of those, 2 have rejected with no interview. Oh and there are 3 schools that have sent a rejection with no secondary.

I know its still early but my MD and DO primaries where in day 1 and processed well before the release date. So I'm anxious about not getting in this year, especially since I've been paying these applications out of pocket.

So question #1 should I be worried?

Question #2 last year the schools recommended that I look at taking upper level sciences to be more competitive. Being 30, I'm sick of taking undergraduate classes, so I'm considering taking off next years cycle to complete a masters in Pharmacology (about 32 credits). Would this be enough to out weight that horrible cGPA?

Appreciate the chance to vent and any feedback.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

You absolutely, positively need to bring your cGPA up over a 3.0. Most schools have automatic cutoffs that will reject every applicant with less than a 3.0. I know you're tired of taking undergrad classes, but you need to hang in there and do a few more. If you've been lurking this forum you probably know that DO schools do grade replacement that makes bad grades magically disappear if you retake the class. This will be by far the easiest way to get your GPA up. Your MCAT is already great for DO schools, and you'll probably get all the interview invites you need if you bring that cGPA up just a little bit more.

A masters won't help you out at all if your cGPA gets you auto-rejected. Even if you weren't, a masters (not an SMP) isn't a very efficient way to increase your chances of getting accepted to med school. They're widely known for grade inflation, so med school adcoms can't use them as a way to measure your academic performance. As a result they become more like a very good EC activity. They'll help, but they won't make up for bad stats. That isn't to say that you shouldn't do the masters if you have a genuine interest in pharmacology and want to acquire more knowledge on it or to contribute to research in the field. However, in your case retaking classes is going to be easily the most efficient route to getting into med school. Take the undergrad classes along with all the 18 y/o kids, and don't forget to tell them exciting tales of life in the nineties, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

[Yehoshua24]

I hear your advice but here is the reality. I have about 200 undergraduate credits so it would take me another 4 years of full time school to make that a reality. That is an unrealistic expectation for someone who is in their 30's, and has done well on the MCAT and post bac work.

The masters isn't an SMP its a real MS at a big 10 university. I am interested and it is real science.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[DrMidlife]

Technically, med school is undergrad, so if you're sick of undergrad now, good lord but you'll hate med school.

We low cGPA nontrads would like to think that a strong sGPA and a strong MCAT are enough. They aren't, as you've seen. You reapplied without following advice, so your results may not be very different this time.

An unredeemed 2.49 cumulative is a big fat red flag. A 2.49 with no counterexample says you aren't taking this seriously. An unredeemed 2.49 says you are unafraid of the academic rigor of med school. (Hint: you should be afraid of the academic rigor of med school.) An unredeemed 2.49 says you think you know better than the admissions committees what makes a good med student. (Hint: they don't like that, generally.)

So you have to redeem that 2.49. Get a counterexample that shows your academic seriousness over a year or more. More undergrad is one way to do it, such as the upper div science you were advised to take, and programs like Harvard Extension and Berkeley Extension are examples of how to get that done. The more common way to do it is an SMP, which is a one year terminal masters program where you do the first year of med school as an audition for med school.

A regular masters degree puts the burden of comprehension on the admissions committee. Is the program reputable? Rigorous? How are they supposed to know this? There are thousands of programs across the US that offer regular masters degrees, and some are great. The problem is that some are crap. So if you do a program that is unknown to med school admissions committees, then you can't assume you're showing them what they need to see (a strong counterexample to your 2.49).

Look. You have to jump through the same undergrad overachiever hoop as the 21 year olds. You didn't make it through that hoop in undergrad. You have to find another hoop, and it pretty much needs to be higher and harder to get through. If you resent having to jump through that hoop, stop now, because the hoop jumping in med school and in practice is constant and forever.

Meanwhile, there are never any guarantees, and you will never get away from that 2.49, unfortunately. I was interviewed at a low tier DO school where they wanted an explanation for every non-A grade on my 20 year old transcripts. If you go get straight A's for a year of upper div undergrad science, you can still get rejected. The best advice when you're facing epic GPA redemption (which you are facing) is that if there's any other career in which you'd be happy, good lord pick that other career. If you won't be happy unless you're a doctor, then do whatever it takes, with humility and gratitude.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Etyan]

Second both posters above.

To answer your questions:
#1: Sorry, but yes. You need to show schools you are academically capable and have the necessary skills to become a competent, licensed physician. Your GPA is concerning; your MCAT is mildly assuring. Taken together, these do not making you a very appealing applicant.

#2: Why are you sick of taking undergrad classes? The courseload? The subject repetition? Your peers?

A general Master's will not outweigh a horrible cGPA. It will look like a pleasant EC if your GPA > 3.7; otherwise it will hurt you. Even a SMP will not outweigh a horrible undergrad GPA; a SMP will, however, give AdComms the impression you can tough it out in the first 2 years of medical school (if your gGPA > 3.7).

Your quickest option, at this point, is an SMP. These are 1-2 years and are, as mentioned above, an "audition for medical school." They are expensive, full-time, and a one-shot deal. Excel, and you have a good chance of entering the host school's medical program.

Graduated with a poor GPA (below 2.5) for many reasons, none which really matter at this time.
My cGPA is at a 2.49 now and my sGPA is 3.6.
MCAT this July got a 31 (9p 11v 11b).

So question #1 should I be worried?

Question #2 last year the schools recommended that I look at taking upper level sciences to be more competitive. Being 30, I'm sick of taking undergraduate classes, so I'm considering taking off next years cycle to complete a masters in Pharmacology (about 32 credits). Would this be enough to out weight that horrible cGPA?

Appreciate the chance to vent and any feedback.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I hear your advice but here is the reality. I have about 200 undergraduate credits so it would take me another 4 years of full time school to make that a reality. That is an unrealistic expectation for someone who is in their 30's, and has done well on the MCAT and post bac work.

The masters isn't an SMP its a real MS at a big 10 university. I am interested and it is real science.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

That's why I said to do retakes and take advantage of AACOMAS grade replacement. If you replace some D's and F's with A's, you'll need a lot less than four years to bring your average up over a 3.0. Do the math for yourself. Grab a calculator and your transcript, and see what your GPA would be if you crossed out your worst 30 credits and replaced them with A's. I don't know your exact grades so I can't say for sure, but I'll bet that would put you over a 3.0 and you can do that in a year. The good news is that I don't think you'll need to go up any higher than a 3.0, since you've already got a good MCAT score.

 

[Yehoshua24]

Replacement is not an option. The school is about 800 miles from where I live now. And these classes are specialized and not easily retaken unless at the same institution.

 

[Yehoshua24]

I got into a SMP at USF but I pit that p. Hold for a semester thinking a real Masters would better.

 

[DrMidlife]

One option is to do a masters at a DO school. These tend to be 2 year programs (so you have a somewhat marketable science degree if you change your mind about med school) and they tend to give you leniency on the assets you come in with. These programs are pretty much the only way into med school from a sub-25 MCAT, but presumably they'd do the same trick for a sub-2.5.

 

[Yehoshua24]

One option is to do a masters at a DO school. These tend to be 2 year programs (so you have a somewhat marketable science degree if you change your mind about med school) and they tend to give you leniency on the assets you come in with. These programs are pretty much the only way into med school from a sub-25 MCAT, but presumably they'd do the same trick for a sub-2.5.

The pharmacology degree is through MSU COM...

 

[DrMidlife]

Looks like most of the pharm masters through MSU COM are online, which would not get the job done.

I suggest getting an MSU COM admissions director/officer to sit down with you and approve your plan. Assuming you're a MI resident, and you're polite/assertive, this should be possible. MSU COM is a good school, one of very few public DO schools, so betting on it wouldn't be a mistake.