Needing Advice for Ultra Non-Trad

[Bullseye_18]

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Hey y'all!

I am a 26yo female fighter pilot, living away from the US until late 2019, and applying to med school when I am 30 (attending hopefully at 31). I have recently begun my pursuit of this dream, but I have no academic outlet for advice in the pre-med realm! I have a minor in biology, in which my courses were taken 6 years ago at this time (and 10 years when I apply to med school). That being said, I am retaking my prerequisites all online due to living overseas (and when I return to the US, I will be on "business trips" and deployments for nearly half the year).

With this being an online journey (I know how that looks), I intend on supplementing my knowledge with a Masters in Medical Biology from Liberty Online in order to show that I am doing everything I can while achieving excellence in these courses, in the least.

Does anybody have any advice to offer for success in being accepted for my personal situation? I know how an online education is not looked upon favorably from many schools (though they are accepted as prerequisites); but online is my only option. Is there anything else that I can do to become a stronger applicant?

The only stats I have are--
GPA: 3.9
Track, XC, working, volunteering, student government, clubs galore (college)
Work exp: 80hr work weeks, flying upgrades, ****volunteering with hospice upon return to the USA***
MCAT: TBD

 

[SpoiledMilk]

1st: Thank you for your service!
2nd: Your background as a fighter pilot will impress even the most hard*ass Adcom.
3rd: Schools will take into consideration your circumstances regarding online courses. I think they won't have any issues with you taking online courses as long as you get A's.
4th: With you undergrad GPA, you don't need to take a Masters in Medical Biology. Graduate GPA are not considered by 99.9% of MD schools, while some DOs will take them. Take the prereqs that you need online and ace them to prepare you for the MCAT.
5th: Do well on the MCAT and you are set.
6th: If your state of residence is TX when you return or if not, consider it, then with a competitive MCAT, you will get a lot of love from TX medschools.

@AnotherLawyer is a vet and had a great cycle in TX.

 

[Froggy25]

Applying at 30 isn't too old! About 10% of my M.D. class started at over 30.

Wherever you're stationed, I'd take a look around and see if they have an on-base option for brick-and-mortar night school. Labs might be hard to come by, but I'd at least take a look. There are some things that are just hard to learn online.

I second the opinion above that you probably don't need a masters. Recent and relevant (pre-reqs) is probably sufficient. Gotta get that MCAT though.

I'd also highlight that you'll want to get some legit patient exposure before you apply. Admins are going to wonder about your commitment to medicine if you don't have any previous exposure to the field (your annual PHA and flight physical doesn't count haha). Everybody loves a military pilot applicant, but everybody really loves a military pilot applicant with sustained patient volunteering.

Veterans with decent stats tend to do well. There are only about 450 of us a year that apply M.D. Apply to where you want to go, including state schools that are not your own. It's covered by GI Bill regardless, and there are public schools that will give you love even if you're out of state.

Good luck!

Froggy

 

[Bullseye_18]

Thanks for the advice, guys! It's definitely reassuring that this isn't just a pipe dream with the online-world.

Okay, maybe I can see what community colleges are around when I am stationed in the US again!...I can't guarantee I'd be able to stick around for an entire semester, but maybe even augmenting for experience would be well worth-it. I'll check it out.

I've heard great things about hospice volunteering; do you really get that much patient experience in this way? I am definitely seeking out future opportunities.

Hey Froggy! By the way, if you are indeed Froggy, I've heard your name passed around-- in a good way! Just about cool career paths. It definitely inspires me and gives me hope that this actually can happen.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Lol...while mad respect for you pilots (which will definitely boost your app), dunno if I would classify you as ultra non-trad. For those of us that still consider you a youngster, not sure where that would leave us. 😉

Have you already completed all or most of your prerequisites during your previous degree? I would reconsider retaking any completed prerequisites, especially with your current GPA. Six to ten years is not too old for courses, at least for the majority of schools. Some of my pre-reqs were well over 15 years old by the time I applied. I understand you'll need to refresh your knowledge for the MCATs, but with your schedule it may be best to self-study using free online programs like Khan's and textbooks. With your motivation I'm sure you'll learn just as much without as much of the fluff from classroom work. If you have any core required classes that you still need to take, then I also would recommend taking them at some sort of brick and mortar schools just for maximum flexibility, but as mentioned schools may consider your schedule if that's not possible.
On taking online classes, I also agree you don't need to get a Master's and would suggest you just focus on more advanced courses to show you can still handle academia and to build on your previous knowledge. Most schools don't seem to have a problem with those types of courses taken online.
Echoing what Froggy said, with a good MCAT and some decent clinical patient exposure I think you'll have a strong application. While hospice volunteering would look great on the resume, make sure you get some experience that includes shadowing a physician. Schools seem to want to see that you have a good understanding of what being a doctor is really like. I would recommend checking out the local aid station or hospital and bugging a doc there. If you could get a rec letter out of it, that would even be better.

Definitely not a pipe dream. You're actually standing in a better place than many of us that have gone down this path before.

Good luck!

 

[Goro]

Many thanks for your service to our country!
Where's my pal @MarineMDHopeful ???

 

[maddeh87]

There’s a fighter pilot in my friend’s class, I can see if I can ask her some questions. She had mentioned that she’s doing a program where she’s still considered active duty (I think IRR) but she got a conditional release to get out and use her GI bill for medical school, and so she can roll right back into active duty when she’s done. I have no idea how that would work with your service commitment from flight school though; she was an O-4 when she started.

 

[MarineMDHopeful]

Hey @Bullseye_18 yoy definitely dont need a masters. Your GPA and a good MCAT will be impressive enough it shows how determined you are even in incredible diversity if you dona 510+ you are golden make sure your PS and secondaries highlight your unique journey and you will have success. Injust appliead and was accepted to some pretty prestigious institutions with a great GPA and a mediocre MCAT. If you want more advice/specifics on PS advice or applying in general please let me know by PM. Love to helo vets in ANY way I can.

 

[Froggy25]

Hey Froggy! By the way, if you are indeed Froggy, I've heard your name passed around-- in a good way! Just about cool career paths. It definitely inspires me and gives me hope that this actually can happen.

I've had an unconventional career, so probably the same person. Perhaps we know some of the same people, as it's a small community.

This can absolutely happen!

Froggy

 

[CaptRetired]

Bullseye,
Your path is definitely non-trad in status, but there are many of us who are there, too. Even graduating at the age of 40 (former ABM on E-8 btw) there were 3 people older than me in my class of 135 when we started (2 graduated with me, the other was lost to follow-up). Although I may have more combat time (as if that matters to admissions- any combat time/sorties will dazzle all civilians), your stats are way better than mine.

My suggestions/notes--
1. I would definitely do pre-reqs on a solid campus. In fact, if your choice of med schools prefers "locals" then I would suggest trying to do them locally. Specifically in my case- Mercer SOM only interviews GA residents... being military, I had to show that I actually had plans to stay in GA and pre-reqs at a local college really helped (I was on the wait-list when my 2nd choice school- a DO school- accepted me).
2. If you want a masters in biomed, do it. If you don't, don't waste your money on it (unless you are wanting to go to med school on the military's dime and owe them 4 more years later... then use your GI bill for the masters, and a mil scholarship later). If you are considering staying in the military and you need it to make major- do the degree... it won't hurt in the least, but could help with promotion, and possibly with some of the academics in first year of med school.
3. Don't forget about the awards/medals you have received. I put those things on everything that asked about it. As much as any mil person would laugh at "Global War on Terrorism Service Medal"... even THAT makes civilians all warm and fuzzy (I have had them ask me about that one... seriously). Other mil-related "extra-curriculars" can go under "employment" and you shouldn't forget about each assigment you've had: "XO or DO" (depending on your branch of service... as a fighter pilot, I am assuming USAF or Navy... maybe the rare marine) as "second in command". Flight Commander or flight lead is a dazzler, too. Throwing in numbers makes adcoms realize the responsibility you have- one of mine was "Second in command of 58 airmen in combat zone deployment". I even had Snack-O as "Morale Officer- in charge of providing a source of enjoyable food onsite to maximize productivity and enhance morale."
4. Definitely consider HPSP if you don't mind continuing your military experience. I did the math for another person looking at it- the benefits of the scholarship vs the "extra money" earned as a civilian doc for the 4 years you owe the military. It comes out about the same, except you get all your money up front (and all your equipment is NICE equipment, not the cheapest stuff you can find) and you don't owe anybody a couple hundred thousand dollars. Plus, you will already have time in grade (and may start higher than O-3, depending on your experience points) which makes the numbers I worked irrelevant- yours would be higher. As I retired medically, nobody was willing to do the paperwork to get a waiver signed (you know ANYTHING can get a waiver... it just depends on who is willing to do the work)... otherwise, I probably would have gone that direction.

Let me know if you have further Q's. Feel free to message me.

 

[BombsAway]

There's a former Naval aviator at Geisel (Dartmouth) I could put you in touch with.

 

[willow84]

26 is not an ultra nontrad by any stretch. That's all I have to contribute to this.

 

[HopefulPilot]

I was living overseas when I began online prereqs. It didn't hinder my application process at all including a T10 acceptance. I think that doing the online masters is a waste of time (doing an online degree to make up for doing online prereqs???). Take the required prereqs: just have to be complete by matriculation so unique requirements can wait until you know you'll be attending the school requiring them.

Protect that sweet GPA
Crush the MCAT
Make an interfolio account and start collecting LORs.

You'll be in a great spot when you apply. PM me if you have more detailed questions on prereqs and military applications.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I'd err on the side of taking the pre-reqs on an actual campus rather than online, or I'd max out at maybe 2 online. Many schools do not accept pre-reqs online, and some of those that do limit it. I have 2 pre-reqs that I took online and the schools I applied to clearly stated on their sites that they recommend all courses be taken in person, but would allow up to 8 credits of pre-reqs online.

Your GPA and background have you set up to go relatively anywhere you want to go for school pending your MCAT basically. Don't shoot yourself in the foot. At the very least, look up some schools you may want to attend (i.e. your state schools at the very least) and see what their policies are, and if there is nothing listed, contact them and make note of your situation and that you'd like to know if they'd accept them.

One additional note: I think UNE (which has a medical school) offers a couple of the pre-reqs online themselves, which may be more trustworthy from some medical schools as they are being taught through a school with a medical school itself.

Just my .02 from a vet who took a couple pre-reqs online!

 

[073116]

Hey y'all!

I am a 26yo female fighter pilot, living away from the US until late 2019, and applying to med school when I am 30 (attending hopefully at 31). I have recently begun my pursuit of this dream, but I have no academic outlet for advice in the pre-med realm! I have a minor in biology, in which my courses were taken 6 years ago at this time (and 10 years when I apply to med school). That being said, I am retaking my prerequisites all online due to living overseas (and when I return to the US, I will be on "business trips" and deployments for nearly half the year).

With this being an online journey (I know how that looks), I intend on supplementing my knowledge with a Masters in Medical Biology from Liberty Online in order to show that I am doing everything I can while achieving excellence in these courses, in the least.

Does anybody have any advice to offer for success in being accepted for my personal situation? I know how an online education is not looked upon favorably from many schools (though they are accepted as prerequisites); but online is my only option. Is there anything else that I can do to become a stronger applicant?

The only stats I have are--
GPA: 3.9
Track, XC, working, volunteering, student government, clubs galore (college)
Work exp: 80hr work weeks, flying upgrades, ****volunteering with hospice upon return to the USA***
MCAT: TBD

Non-trad is above 30y.o and super non-trad is above 40y.o, while grand non-trad is above 50y.o, and Ultra non-trad is above 60 y.o. I'll be 43 at graduation, while we have 2 students who will be 61 and 62 during graduation. You are pretty much traditional student. I don't even think you need to post in non-trads.
Your scores are high enough to get almost anywhere. Your experience is good enough and interesting enough too. You only need below average MCAT (for DO schools) or average MCAT for MD schools and couple pre-reqs taken in-person to meet the dumb automatic cutoff of some schools. You don't need any Masters in Biology or any other crap like that. Unless you want to become Biologist. If you want to be a physician: take half of prereqs in-person, pass MCAT, apply early, apply broadly and you'll get in 100%. There is no way you wouldn't get into some school. You want to become stronger applicant - but you are stronger than 95% of accepted students. You need in-person prereqs - that should be your priority. As of right now - imho you are focusing on some crap like masters in biology etc.

 

[Raney Schauer]

1 - What airframe? (I'm a former Marine UAV type)
2 - Reevaluate your approach to pre-reqs with an eye towards what schools are on your list. Med schools by and large require Bio, gen chem, ochem and physics with lab. That means brick and mortar. TAP is probably paying for it so it's not coming out of your pocket to do it online while on AD, but be mentally prepared to have to repeat some of these things. For the classes that you took already for your minor, don't worry about how old they are. If you're like most of the tac air people I've ever worked with, you already know how to teach and refresh yourself on material you've already learned and solid prepping for the MCAT will take care of the cobwebs. If TAP isn't paying the bill and this is cutting into your forever GI Bill bennies, I'd hold off until you're free like Dobby.

 

[mariposas905]

Non-trad is above 30y.o and super non-trad is above 40y.o, while grand non-trad is above 50y.o, and Ultra non-trad is above 60 y.o. I'll be 43 at graduation, while we have 2 students who will be 61 and 62 during graduation. You are pretty much traditional student. I don't even think you need to post in non-trads.
Your scores are high enough to get almost anywhere. Your experience is good enough and interesting enough too. You only need below average MCAT (for DO schools) or average MCAT for MD schools and couple pre-reqs taken in-person to meet the dumb automatic cutoff of some schools. You don't need any Masters in Biology or any other crap like that. Unless you want to become Biologist. If you want to be a physician: take half of prereqs in-person, pass MCAT, apply early, apply broadly and you'll get in 100%. There is no way you wouldn't get into some school. You want to become stronger applicant - but you are stronger than 95% of accepted students. You need in-person prereqs - that should be your priority. As of right now - imho you are focusing on some crap like masters in biology etc.

Wow, what school do you go to? 61 and 62 shows some serious determination and passion for medicine 🙂

 

[Bullseye_18]

Hi again everybody!

First, sorry for the misconception! By ultra-nontrad, I had no intention of that simply meaning my age but including location and job commitment! Sorry if I had pressed any buttons!... But on another note, taking any courses at a brick and mortar school will be impossible (unless I am able to augment classes/labs for my own personal benefit... i.e. Human Anatomy with a cadaver lol).. There are just too many TDY's, long work days, and upgrades to be able to put money down for a course that I don't have the set-in-stone hours to commit to, as long as I am flying! It is a personal choice of course, but I desire to be a good steward of the job I have now for the duration of my commitment (I mean, I could let the boss know, refuse any "work trips," refuse deployment, etc. But referencing my last statement, that's a no-go). (All this being said, the only courses that I have yet to take are Orgo, Physics, and Biochem; everything else is a refresher). It is SO good to know about the Master's; I honestly thought the courses seemed pretty cool, but again, there is also life to live, so why put myself through MORE school when soon enough, there will be my fill of school, haha.

Anyways, THANK YOU for all of the advice! I've gained a lot of great info and wisdom; I will be PM'ing a few here shortly.

 

[Bullseye_18]

1 - What airframe? (I'm a former Marine UAV type)
2 - Reevaluate your approach to pre-reqs with an eye towards what schools are on your list. Med schools by and large require Bio, gen chem, ochem and physics with lab. That means brick and mortar. TAP is probably paying for it so it's not coming out of your pocket to do it online while on AD, but be mentally prepared to have to repeat some of these things. For the classes that you took already for your minor, don't worry about how old they are. If you're like most of the tac air people I've ever worked with, you already know how to teach and refresh yourself on material you've already learned and solid prepping for the MCAT will take care of the cobwebs. If TAP isn't paying the bill and this is cutting into your forever GI Bill bennies, I'd hold off until you're free like Dobby.

1. F-15E out in Lakenheath!
2. So because I have my bachelor's, the USAF will only pay for my Master's; the few pre-reqs I have left must be out of pocket. I have had a savings plan in place (and will continue in accordance with the plan) to save for everything I need for 5 years post USAF; that way, the GI Bill will cover nearly everything for school (the rest is covered in "The Plan"), and I will be able to stand on my own 2 feet until residency (with some slack, because nothing goes as planned)... thus, yes, my school NOW is out of pocket; but I'm really not worried about it in the long-run...

To piggy back off of what you mentioned, thanks for the advice on not re-taking pre-reqs! I've been hunting and digging around the Khan Academy to see what everyone's been talking about!

 

[Raney Schauer]

with some slack, because nothing goes as planned

F-15E's are Cadillacs. Nice.

Five yards or five minutes, no plan survives first contact.

Sal Khan is a national treasure.

Make your motto "Semper Gumby" and you're golden like Grahams.

Don't worry about the whole non-traditional debate. The official Dept. of Education definition doesn't apply to you, anyway.

From wikipedia (and this is more to correct everyone who speaks so confidently and incorrectly about definitions based solely on age), according to NCES a non-traditional student:

• Delays enrollment (does not enter postsecondary education in the same calendar year that he or she finished high school)
• Attends part time for at least part of the academic year
• Works full-time (35 hours or more per week) while enrolled
• Is considered financially independent for purposes of determining eligibility for financial aid
• Has dependents other than a spouse (usually children, but may also be caregivers of sick or elderly family members)
• Is a single parent (either not married or married but separated and has dependents)
• Does not have a high school diploma (completed high school with a GED or other high school completion certificate or did not finish high school)

As a first-time-go college graduate out of H.S. and congressionally certified commissioned officer and gentleperson, you would be more aptly considered a "career-changer".

None of that matters anyway. It's all about defining people for statistical purposes.

 

[Just Call Me Doc]

Hi again everybody!

First, sorry for the misconception! By ultra-nontrad, I had no intention of that simply meaning my age but including location and job commitment! Sorry if I had pressed any buttons!... But on another note, taking any courses at a brick and mortar school will be impossible (unless I am able to augment classes/labs for my own personal benefit... i.e. Human Anatomy with a cadaver lol).. There are just too many TDY's, long work days, and upgrades to be able to put money down for a course that I don't have the set-in-stone hours to commit to, as long as I am flying! It is a personal choice of course, but I desire to be a good steward of the job I have now for the duration of my commitment (I mean, I could let the boss know, refuse any "work trips," refuse deployment, etc. But referencing my last statement, that's a no-go). (All this being said, the only courses that I have yet to take are Orgo, Physics, and Biochem; everything else is a refresher). It is SO good to know about the Master's; I honestly thought the courses seemed pretty cool, but again, there is also life to live, so why put myself through MORE school when soon enough, there will be my fill of school, haha.

Anyways, THANK YOU for all of the advice! I've gained a lot of great info and wisdom; I will be PM'ing a few here shortly.

Lol... I doubt you pushed any buttons. Just meaning that you’re in good company!

There are trade-offs with trying to take the pre-reqs you haven’t completed online and applying to go straight into med school after separation. While there are probably schools that will take those courses online, there are others that won’t and so your choices may be more limited. Especially with orgo and physics, if you have the means to do so, I would recommend taking a year after your separation to complete those courses at a brick and mortar (which you could even do during your application year). Things may have changed over the past several years but I remember a good number of schools that didn’t accept the core pre-reqs from online schools. Of course it all depends on your particular goals and resources, but with your backgrounds and GPA I’d hate to see you limit yourself.