Neglecting to include ALL previously attended universities

[steppdeckenwolf]

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I have a general question regarding applications on AMCAS. I would rather not submit transcripts from a university I attended over the summer my freshman year. I didn't take any of my premeds at this university, but I wasn't terribly focused at the time, and my grades that summer weren't very good.

If I neglected to include submit transcripts from this university, would the application boards find out about it?

 

[blackroses]

Yes.

This isn't complicated. You are required to submit transcripts from ALL universities you have attended. To not do so is to lie. You will be found out when your transcripts are requested from the national clearinghouse, and any acceptances you have will likely be rescinded. Don't lie. You can come back from a bad semester, you can't come back from lying on your application.

 

[Catalystik]

Think twice before signing the required Certification statement that AMCAS requires when you submit, that your application is true and complete.

AMCAS has partnered with Student Clearinghouse which tracks post-HS educational enrollments. They will know if you omitted a transcript "by accident" and your verification will be delayed while you sort things out:

Student Clearinghouse: http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/colleges/studenttracker/
AMCAS partners with Clearinghouse PDF: http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/media_center/press_releases/files/release_2013-11-06.pdf

 

[gyngyn]

If it appears that you obfuscated purposefully, it may be worse than a mere delay in processing.

 

[RaspberrySlushy]

Is there any way to look yourself up on there? I once took some classes at my local library that were loosely offered through a community college. Just some general interest/writing classes. it wasn't for grades or anything, but I did have an official student ID through the school and classes could be taken for credit (tho I didn't) so I just don't know if that's listed on my record somewhere or not?

 

[ZedsDed]

Is there any way to look yourself up on there? I once took some classes at my local library that were loosely offered through a community college. Just some general interest/writing classes. it wasn't for grades or anything, but I did have an official student ID through the school and classes could be taken for credit (tho I didn't) so I just don't know if that's listed on my record somewhere or not?

If you have a transcript through the school then yes. To anyone else considering lying on your application -- don't. It's unethical, and you'll get caught.

 

[Mavs88]

I have a general question regarding applications on AMCAS. I would rather not submit transcripts from a university I attended over the summer my freshman year. I didn't take any of my premeds at this university, but I wasn't terribly focused at the time, and my grades that summer weren't very good.

If I neglected to include submit transcripts from this university, would the application boards find out about it?

You really want to play around with this? Forget it. You will get caught. You will pay a steep price. No need to lie. Be honest and go forth.

 

[ZedsDed]

You really want to play around with this? Forget it. You will get caught. You will pay a steep price. No need to lie. Be honest and go forth.

Says the most crooked meth-slinging lawyer around haha

 

[RaspberrySlushy]

Well that's sort of what I was asking, I have no idea if I have a transcript there since nothing was for credit/graded. Is there a way to find out is my question?

It's a strange situation b/c I was living on a remote island in WA at the time so never actually went to the actual CC, all classes were at the island library, I don't even remember the name of the CC since it was so long ago and I don't want to leave it off my app if it counts but not sure it does (and I don't have info from the time, not sure how to get ahold of records or if there even are any).

These were really just classes to take for fun when there was nothing to do over winter on an island.

 

[ZedsDed]

Well that's sort of what I was asking, I have no idea if I have a transcript there since nothing was for credit/graded. Is there a way to find out is my question?

It's a strange situation b/c I was living on a remote island in WA at the time so never actually went to the actual CC, all classes were at the island library, I don't even remember the name of the CC since it was so long ago and I don't want to leave it off my app if it counts but not sure it does (and I don't have info from the time, not sure how to get ahold of records or if there even are any).

These were really just classes to take for fun when there was nothing to do over winter on an island.

You are not unique in this regard. Call the school/library and find out. No one here can answer your question.

 

[alpinism]

Well that's sort of what I was asking, I have no idea if I have a transcript there since nothing was for credit/graded. Is there a way to find out is my question?

It's a strange situation b/c I was living on a remote island in WA at the time so never actually went to the actual CC, all classes were at the island library, I don't even remember the name of the CC since it was so long ago and I don't want to leave it off my app if it counts but not sure it does (and I don't have info from the time, not sure how to get ahold of records or if there even are any).

These were really just classes to take for fun when there was nothing to do over winter on an island.

AFAIK If you didn't take the class for credit then you shouldn't have a transcript.

You could always call the clearinghouse or AMCAS and explain your situation.

FWIW I had a ton of "non credit/non graded" classes as a firefighter/medic taken in conjunction with our state fire academy and local community college that never had to be reported (Emergency management, Rescue tech, Hazmat tech, EMT, BLS, ACLS, PALS, etc...).
I asked AMCAS but since I had no official college credits (beyond getting state certifications) they didn't want me to send anything.

But yes, if you enrolled in a official college course for credit and received a grade, you should have a transcript that needs to be sent.

 

[NeuResurgens]

Don't leave anything out. So many people have been burned by trying to stretch or hide the truth it's not even funny.

Just put it on your application.. they're not going to care about your bad summer grades if you GPA is respectable now.

 

[Mavs88]

Says the most crooked meth-slinging lawyer around haha

Haha well I do know a guy who sells vacuums...

 

[RaspberrySlushy]

Thanks @alpinism - that's a good idea about calling AMCAS or the Clearinghouse or the school. My guess would be that there is no transcript and that they won't want this non-credit/non-graded crap on my app, but I'd rather check it out than assume! Anyway I'm not applying till next year, so I've got some time.

Haha well I do know a guy who sells vacuums...

Hahaha! Well, I guess that could be a last resort 🙂

 

[Goro]

Yes, and you can then kiss your medical career goodbye.

I have a general question regarding applications on AMCAS. I would rather not submit transcripts from a university I attended over the summer my freshman year. I didn't take any of my premeds at this university, but I wasn't terribly focused at the time, and my grades that summer weren't very good.

If I neglected to include submit transcripts from this university, would the application boards find out about it?

 

[Sarah_Sonny25]

definitely report it on your application!

This happened to a girl at my undergrad---she didn't report a CC that she attended for less than a semester several years before she applied (a non-trad student). At a certain point during her junior year the administration found out somehow and rescinded her acceptance (after she attended here for 3 years) and then demanded that she repay the school all of the need based financial aid grants she was "wrongfully" given---nearly a hundred grand that she did not have.

tl;dr report it or else it gets messy!

 

[gyngyn]

definitely report it on your application!

This happened to a girl at my undergrad---she didn't report a CC that she attended for less than a semester several years before she applied (a non-trad student). At a certain point during her junior year the administration found out somehow and rescinded her acceptance (after she attended here for 3 years) and then demanded that she repay the school all of the need based financial aid grants she was "wrongfully" given---nearly a hundred grand that she did not have.

tl;dr report it or else it gets messy!

On a similar note, I have seen someone "forget" their undergrad courses at UTEP. He got into Cal and did well. His acceptance at Hastings was rescinded when an audit revealed the fraud. This was law school in the 80's. Imagine what would happen for medical school now.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

definitely report it on your application!

This happened to a girl at my undergrad---she didn't report a CC that she attended for less than a semester several years before she applied (a non-trad student). At a certain point during her junior year the administration found out somehow and rescinded her acceptance (after she attended here for 3 years) and then demanded that she repay the school all of the need based financial aid grants she was "wrongfully" given---nearly a hundred grand that she did not have.

tl;dr report it or else it gets messy!

OMG that's horrible (but justly deserved, I guess). Do you know what she did afterwards?

EDIT: Agree with everyone, DO NOT LIE ON YOUR APPLICATION ABOUT GRADES AND TRANSCRIPTS or you will be f**ked, OP.

 

[LJN Ltd.]

How'd you get grades if you didn't take it for credit? No credit typically means not a student, which also means no university login to check letter grades. Did any of that happen to you?

 

[Sarah_Sonny25]

OMG that's horrible (but justly deserved, I guess). Do you know what she did afterwards?

EDIT: Agree with everyone, DO NOT LIE ON YOUR APPLICATION ABOUT GRADES AND TRANSCRIPTS or you will be f**ked, OP.

There is currently some sort of lawsuit in progress--I think the student is trying to sue the school to get out of this payment that she would have enormous difficulty paying off (especially without a Bachelor's degree and a poor shot of ever going to another school)....but basically yes DISCLOSE E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!

 

[Ace Khalifa]

There is currently some sort of lawsuit in progress--I think the student is trying to sue the school to get out of this payment that she would have enormous difficulty paying off (especially without a Bachelor's degree and a poor shot of ever going to another school)....but basically yes DISCLOSE E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G!

Yikes! Lawsuits aren't fun.

 

[LJN Ltd.]

Yikes! Lawsuits aren't fun.

Unless you're a lawyer

 

[TheoryOfEverything]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

 

[deleted577188]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

You have to report the W's right??

 

[ZedsDed]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

I would put it on the application, just in case.

 

[BillrothI]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

Yes -- include it. It will have not have a negative impact on your application, but you have to include it since it will come up on the Clearinghouse report. It would be a shame to have an acceptance rescinded for something so trivial, so make sure to include it on your AMCAS application. I assure you that adcom members will not think twice about a single "W" on an application.

Hope that helps.

-Bill

 

[TheoryOfEverything]

You have to report the W's right??

I would put it on the application, just in case.

Yes -- include it. It will have not have a negative impact on your application, but you have to include it since it will come up on the Clearinghouse report. It would be a shame to have an acceptance rescinded for something so trivial, so make sure to include it on your AMCAS application. I assure you that adcom members will not think twice about a single "W" on an application.

Hope that helps.

-Bill

Thanks for the quick responses.
So would I put down W's for all the courses that I was enrolled in when I withdrew? I don't even know what courses I was enrolled in. It's not like I have a transcript at this school somewhere that lists a bunch of W's... at least I sure don't think so.
@BillrothI what would the single "W" be that you mentioned? Just from the program in general?

 

[sazerac]

I attended multiple schools, and each school had an option on their website where you can request a transcript. Just request a transcript from this school, so you will know what your W's are.

 

[socalrulez]

What if I took a college class for 2 weeks in HS and dropped the class before the deadline? If there's no W or any notation then do I still have to report this?

 

[candbgirl]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

If you enrolled in classes and then dropped you might have a transcript. I'd request a transcript from the school and see what happens.

 

[LJN Ltd.]

Yes: below quote from AMCAS indicates yes
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/182162/data/amcas_instruction_manual.pdf (see p35)

When entering coursework, you must include information and corresponding grades for
every course in which you have ever enrolled at any U.S., U.S. Territorial, or Canadian post-
secondary institution, regardless of whether credit was earned.

At some point, common sense needs to kick in. Advising students to send in empty transcripts because they were in the class for two weeks is just not good advice.

Good to see AAMC still retains some of this common sense.

 

[LJN Ltd.]

If you enrolled in classes and then dropped you might have a transcript. I'd request a transcript from the school and see what happens.

He/she almost certainly has a transcript since he/she was enrolled in a graduate program and not just taking classes as a non-student.

 

[packersfans]

If the rest of the of your college career went well, noone is going to care. I took a GE class at a CC in high school and got a C or a D. I had literally forgotten I even took the class till it came time to apply to med school. I submitted a transcript for the school regardless. I believe the issue came up in exactly zero of my interviews.

Just do it. By itself its not going to keep you out of medical school.

 

[LJN Ltd.]

Whether logical or rational, it is how AMCAS works and the risks it presents are enormous. Imagine getting accepted and then having it rescinded because of an incredibly silly issue. Indeed, most applicants are not aware that an seemingly innocuous issue like this could get you thrown out of school anytime before you are awarded your MD for an ethical violation and you would no legal recourse. Why would they do so to a student? The school itself may want no questions on its ethical and professional standards when it get periodic accreditation review.

I'm pushing back specifically on the point that students should still scramble to get transcripts and report the school (??) if the course as dropped before the drop deadline, meaning there is literally no record of it. It's good that you're helping to clarify some issues that have potentially hazardous consequences, but again, at some point, common sense tells you that if you were in high school and dropped a college course before the deadline, you don't have to tell schools that. The fact that the AAMC reps even said the same confirms that there is a line to the advice being given ITT.

It's also worthy to note that as an advisor, you very likely do not realize the type of neuroticism advice like this breeds in premeds who do not know any better. Every single piece of advice needs to come with its counterweight, lest students bug registrars for nonexistent records and freak out when they hear there are none available to send. That's all I wanted to say.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm pushing back specifically on the point that students should still scramble to get transcripts and report the school (??) if the course as dropped before the drop deadline, meaning there is literally no record of it. It's good that you're helping to clarify some issues that have potentially hazardous consequences, but again, at some point, common sense tells you that if you were in high school and dropped a college course before the deadline, you don't have to tell schools that. The fact that the AAMC reps even said the same confirms that there is a line to the advice being given ITT.

From what I've observed, AAMC phone reps are not necessarily consistent in what they tell callers. If you aren't inclined to follow the explicit instructions in the 2016 AMCAS Instruction Manual (quoted above, regarding getting a Registrar's letter stating "There is no transcript"), then you'd be better off emailing your question to AAMC and saving the response in case there are later difficulties.

Of course, an investigation of omitted transcript will still result in a delay of verification, so isn't it more proactive to just get the letter and remove an anticipated impediment to timely verification?

 

[ProMed13]

So this thread has made me kind of paranoid...

I started a graduate program a couple of years back but officially withdrew from it before even having a first test. There's no transcripts so there's nothing for me to report right? Should I list the school under the coursework section of the application, but then not list any coursework. Or just leave it out? Would anything show up on Student Clearinghouse?

I was in the same boat for my community college that I attended before the military. Just call up the school if they have a transcript of you on file. That's the easiest way to know about it.

 

[socalrulez]

sorry to bump this. got an email a while back after i tried to submit a request for a transcript online (this is the school where i attended for two weeks and dropped before drop deadline). Email said they couldn't access it since there is no record/transcript for me at that school. AMCAS already verified me a while ago. What do i do? It wasn't a withdrawal (so no W), there's literally nothing.

@gonnif

 

[Ad2b]

You dropped before anything posted on your transcript?

There is nothing that states you have to disclose classes for which you withdrew BEFORE a "W" or another grade could be recorded. It is only after. If that were the case, AAMC would be inundated more than they are already with all those courses that get dropped in the first week of a semester.

 

[Oh_Gee]

Think twice before signing the required Certification statement that AMCAS requires when you submit, that your application is true and complete.

AMCAS has partnered with Student Clearinghouse which tracks post-HS educational enrollments. They will know if you omitted a transcript "by accident" and your verification will be delayed while you sort things out:

Student Clearinghouse: http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/colleges/studenttracker/
AMCAS partners with Clearinghouse PDF: http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/about/media_center/press_releases/files/release_2013-11-06.pdf

well dang what's the point of us submitting transcripts if they're just gonna request it their own way later. coulda saved us some $

 

[socalrulez]

You dropped before anything posted on your transcript?

There is nothing that states you have to disclose classes for which you withdrew BEFORE a "W" or another grade could be recorded. It is only after. If that were the case, AAMC would be inundated more than they are already with all those courses that get dropped in the first week of a semester.

Yeah that's what I thought. It would be insane for them to handle that, but according to gonnif: "When entering coursework, you must include information and corresponding grades for
every course in which you have ever enrolled at any U.S., U.S. Territorial, or Canadian post-
secondary institution, regardless of whether credit was earned."

 

[Catalystik]

sorry to bump this. got an email a while back after i tried to submit a request for a transcript online (this is the school where i attended for two weeks and dropped before drop deadline). Email said they couldn't access it since there is no record/transcript for me at that school. AMCAS already verified me a while ago. What do i do? It wasn't a withdrawal (so no W), there's literally nothing.

If you aren't inclined to follow the explicit instructions in the 2016 AMCAS Instruction Manual (quoted above, regarding getting a Registrar's letter stating "There is no transcript"), then you'd be better off emailing your question to AAMC and saving the response in case there are later difficulties.

 

[Ad2b]

@gonnif - how would the school show that, however? My home institution has no record of me ever taking a class and withdrawing from it prior to the deadline (ala the first week)?

Registered for "XSY" April 10. Classes start 9/9. Dropped class 9/10. That class does not show up anywhere on anything.

If that is listed on AMCAS, how would AMCAS ever be able to verify it was taken? I think that's where the confusion lies. There's no way for anyone to validate that it was, or was not, taken and then dropped.

On my personal AMCAS, I have plenty of "W"s, are duly noted, and can be validated against the transcript.

 

[Ad2b]

Thanks. I need to lrn 2 read, not skim.

I read this:

A course entry must be made even if the withdrawn course does not appear on the transcript. No credit hours or AMCAS
grade will be assigned.

And responded.

 

[CaliBoy12345]

I'm in an interesting situation here:

Took some classes in high school (got A's and B's although I never got a transcript) and thought it was required for all hs students in my school to take it and get credit. I don't recall if I had to sign up, however, I do remember that I never paid for college credit in high school.

I emailed the school for transcripts, the school has not registered with all of the clearinghouse options such as some verification processes, and they said that I have not enrolled in any classes from 3 years ago.

Yes, I have it in writing that the school has no record of me attending. Am I safe not to list the stuff on my AMCAS? I mean, lets be real here, it probably won't show up, but if it did, I have writing from the school that they have no record of me taking these classes.

Thanks guys, I love the support system on SDN.

 

[Ad2b]