Negotiating Salary on GS Payscale

[bacillus1]

I am currently looking at a promising job opportunity in an ideal location for me. I am currently on the federal GS payscale. The problem is that despite this position being one pay grade higher, the salary for this position would be a large pay cut despite the location being nearly as expensive as where I reside now (don't ask me how this works out, just looking at pay range on USAjobs). I have heard of other federal employees negotiating salary before to get additional steps, and am interested in how this is done. Basically, if I get the offer, I would like 2 steps higher than my current step to make it a reasonable difference, so I am wondering how to approach the subject.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bacillus1]

Anyone? I guess no one here has any experience with this.

 

[TLAD123]

As a pharmacist, you start at GS 11 or 12, absolute max you can get as a pharmacist would be GS-13, and that's if you are in a clinical position (this is what I've heard). There would be no negotiating for higher than that, period. You do get a supplemental pay/differential for being a pharmacist, but I don't know specifics on this (I.e. How much)

 

[y0ssarian87]

As a pharmacist, you start at GS 11 or 12, absolute max you can get as a pharmacist would be GS-13, and that's if you are in a clinical position (this is what I've heard). There would be no negotiating for higher than that, period. You do get a supplemental pay/differential for being a pharmacist, but I don't know specifics on this (I.e. How much)

I don't think that's what bacillus is talking about. GS-11, GS-12, and GS-13 are "grades" on the general schedule. In addition to "grades", there are various "steps". GS-11 step 2 would make more than GS-11 step 1 in the same region. It sounded as though bacillus wants to negotiate steps, not grades.

 

[y0ssarian87]

Anyone? I guess no one here has any experience with this.

No experience here. (Just a student.) I'd be interested to know as well.

 

[bacillus1]

I don't think that's what bacillus is talking about. GS-11, GS-12, and GS-13 are "grades" on the general schedule. In addition to "grades", there are various "steps". GS-11 step 2 would make more than GS-11 step 1 in the same region. It sounded as though bacillus wants to negotiate steps, not grades.

That is exactly correct. I am currently a GS12 and the job in question is a GS13, for which I qualify as I have 2 years of GS12 experience plus residency. I just want 2 steps higher than my current step, as the salary in this location is super low, while the cost of living is the same as where I live now. Damn you, non-California pay.

 

[SClENCE]

It would probably depend on how long they have been trying to fill the position. I know of 2-3 government jobs (non-pharmacy related) that pay 80k+ a year and have been open for over a year now. If it's a situation like this then I don't think negotiating would be out of place.

 

[bacillus1]

It would probably depend on how long they have been trying to fill the position. I know of 2-3 government jobs (non-pharmacy related) that pay 80k+ a year and have been open for over a year now. If it's a situation like this then I don't think negotiating would be out of place.

Nope, new posting. When they posted the same position last year (now they just have funding for more FTEs for the same position), they filled it right away. I guess we'll see. I just wanted to get some suggestions ready in case I get an offer, but I should wait to see if they give an offer first.

 

[y0ssarian87]

Nope, new posting. When they posted the same position last year (now they just have funding for more FTEs for the same position), they filled it right away. I guess we'll see. I just wanted to get some suggestions ready in case I get an offer, but I should wait to see if they give an offer first.

Best of luck! What part of the country are you looking at?

 

[rxdawg21]

Hey, from research on the internet (that I did earlier since I am an employee) and from two anecdotal stories if you are promoted a gs level anywhere in the government they will bump you 2 grades from an equivalent pay step. So lets say I am gs 12 level 5 and the most equivalent pay for a step 3 is gs 13 level 3, I will be put at the level 3 and bumped 2 steps so I will be at gs 13 step 5 and it will end up being an 8-10k raise (at least here where I am located). You wouldn't go to GS 13 step 7.

 

[bacillus1]

Best of luck! What part of the country are you looking at?

Looking at positions in the Northeast, currently residing in NorCal

Hey, from research on the internet (that I did earlier since I am an employee) and from two anecdotal stories if you are promoted a gs level anywhere in the government they will bump you 2 grades from an equivalent pay step. So lets say I am gs 12 level 5 and the most equivalent pay for a step 3 is gs 13 level 3, I will be put at the level 3 and bumped 2 steps so I will be at gs 13 step 5 and it will end up being an 8-10k raise (at least here where I am located). You wouldn't go to GS 13 step 7.

But the 12-5 salary at my current job is about 10k more than a 13-5 at the new location plus I may lose my loan repayment, with the cost of an apartment maybe being $100-200 less a month at the new location.

 

[hurx]

How long have you been with the government? It was my understanding that after working for 3 years, you can't be paid less at a new job.. Even if that job is a step down from what you're currently working (i.e. Pharmacy supervisor ---> staff pharmacist). And it sounds like yours is a step up so they should AT LEAST give you your current pay in the new position.

 

[bacillus1]

How long have you been with the government? It was my understanding that after working for 3 years, you can't be paid less at a new job.. Even if that job is a step down from what you're currently working (i.e. Pharmacy supervisor ---> staff pharmacist). And it sounds like yours is a step up so they should AT LEAST give you your current pay in the new position.

3 years if you count residency, less than 2 years permanent, so not sure if I count. Keep in mind this is a different location, so the payscale will be different. That would be nice though.

 

[hurx]

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/pay-retention/

This is as good of an answer as I could find. At the bottom of that page they also have a link to a page with (many, many) examples of pay retention in action. What I gathered from this leads me to believe that you should be paid more in the new position than in your current position.

 

[bacillus1]

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/pay-retention/

This is as good of an answer as I could find. At the bottom of that page they also have a link to a page with (many, many) examples of pay retention in action. What I gathered from this leads me to believe that you should be paid more in the new position than in your current position.

Sounds good, except the "after application of any applicable geographic conversion" part...that might screw me over. Anyway, that's good to know.

 

[CUninja]

It is possible but there is plenty of red tape to do for the people hiring you. We made a GS-5 step 1 into a GS-5 step 5. Very painful process. Took months.

Your hiring manager will realize that it is not worth the pain and hire the next person.

My advice is to suck it up and take the new position and the cut in pay if you like the location, otherwise move on.

 

[hurx]

So what ended up happening??

 

[bacillus1]

So what ended up happening??

They offered the job to someone else Thought I'd get it, considering they had 3 openings...Guess I'm staying here forever...

 

[hurx]

Sorry to hear that. I'm sure you'll find something else!

 

[rxcatlady]

When I started they offered me step1. I told them I wouldn't leave unless my new salary was comparable to my last. They offered me in as a step 10 and had it approved within a few hours. Easier to do in the hiring process than after you get hired.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Question for you guys... so I boot up a GS salary pay calculator but then now what? For example, if I put in a GS 11 step 5 (does this sound right for a starting pharmacist?), you end up getting like mid $60K per year. I'm assuming this goes down even lower after taxes? Can someone go into detail about how the exact salary is calculated with an example? Is this different than the "pharmacy best kept secret" example which had pay grades with low salary which was compensated with tax breaks and "special pays" to make the ending salary much higher?

 

[bacillus1]

Question for you guys... so I boot up a GS salary pay calculator but then now what? For example, if I put in a GS 11 step 5 (does this sound right for a starting pharmacist?), you end up getting like mid $60K per year. I'm assuming this goes down even lower after taxes? Can someone go into detail about how the exact salary is calculated with an example? Is this different than the "pharmacy best kept secret" example which had pay grades with low salary which was compensated with tax breaks and "special pays" to make the ending salary much higher?

Pharmacy is in the excepted service, it has its own payscale that is different from the regular GS payscale. To get an idea of how much you would get paid, just look at USAjobs and the postings near where you live, if there are any. I've seen starting salaries for VA pharmacists anywhere from 85k to 125k depending on position and location. Some locations also have EDRP, which will help you with student loans and is an untaxed program.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Thank you, can you calculate your takehome pay similar to a regular job or are you taxed differently?

 

[bacillus1]

Thank you, can you calculate your takehome pay similar to a regular job or are you taxed differently?

I am taxed the same as everyone else...also get an additional 3.1% taken out for pension (new hires this year have 4.4% taken out though, the money comes back to you if you leave before you are eligible for pension benefits).

 

[y0ssarian87]

I am taxed the same as everyone else...also get an additional 3.1% taken out for pension (new hires this year have 4.4% taken out though, the money comes back to you if you leave before you are eligible for pension benefits).

Essentially everything is the same except for salary, correct? How are regional pharmacist salaries determined then, if not by the GS?

Random VA questions:
At my VA, there is a heavy emphasis on ambulatory care. There are pharmacist led clinics for AC, DM, COPD, PACT, and hyperlipidemia, as well as a methadone clinic and a Hep C clinic. Are these services present/common at most VAs? Also, I know there's a national formulary for all the VAs. Who makes these formulary decisions?

 

[bacillus1]

Essentially everything is the same except for salary, correct? How are regional pharmacist salaries determined then, if not by the GS?

Random VA questions:
At my VA, there is a heavy emphasis on ambulatory care. There are pharmacist led clinics for AC, DM, COPD, PACT, and hyperlipidemia, as well as a methadone clinic and a Hep C clinic. Are these services present/common at most VAs? Also, I know there's a national formulary for all the VAs. Who makes these formulary decisions?

Excepted service GS payscale plus locality differential.

Pretty much all VAs I know of have AC/DM clinics. The others vary. All our am care pharmacists do both PACT (DM/HTN/HL) and anticoag. We also have a few outpatient psych pharmacists, a renal pharmacist and an ambulatory care telehealth pharamcist. We have just now created a Hep C position and don't have a methadone clinic. My old VA had a methadone clinic, but that pharmacist position is more of a "staff" position. We also have inpatient clinical pharmacists in medicine, surgery, ICU, psych, spinal cord injury and long-term care.

 

[y0ssarian87]

Excepted service GS payscale plus locality differential.

Pretty much all VAs I know of have AC/DM clinics. The others vary. All our am care pharmacists do both PACT (DM/HTN/HL) and anticoag. We also have a few outpatient psych pharmacists, a renal pharmacist and an ambulatory care telehealth pharamcist. We have just now created a Hep C position and don't have a methadone clinic. My old VA had a methadone clinic, but that pharmacist position is more of a "staff" position. We also have inpatient clinical pharmacists in medicine, surgery, ICU, psych, spinal cord injury and long-term care.

Thanks! Good luck with your East Coast job search.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I am taxed the same as everyone else...also get an additional 3.1% taken out for pension (new hires this year have 4.4% taken out though, the money comes back to you if you leave before you are eligible for pension benefits).

So earlier in your first post when you said you wanted a reasonable difference in terms of your current salary vs the new one, what would be a reasonable difference?

 

[CurlingHouse]

Question for @bacillus1 or anyone else:

Current VA pharmacist on exempt service GS payscale. In terms of transferring to another VA, am I not able to qualify for job opening for "Federal Employee" because I'm not in the competitive service track?

Having a hard time understanding this on the USA Jobs page.

 

[lord999]

Question for @bacillus1 or anyone else:

Current VA pharmacist on exempt service GS payscale. In terms of transferring to another VA, am I not able to qualify for job opening for "Federal Employee" because I'm not in the competitive service track?

Having a hard time understanding this on the USA Jobs page.

No, PM me privately but Hybrid Title 38 has a defined interchange agreement with Title 5. Your application was easily appealed and the HR ****up is getting a lor for that if you included your SF50.

 

[bacillus1]

Question for @bacillus1 or anyone else:

Current VA pharmacist on exempt service GS payscale. In terms of transferring to another VA, am I not able to qualify for job opening for "Federal Employee" because I'm not in the competitive service track?

Having a hard time understanding this on the USA Jobs page.

You mean excepted service, not exempt service, right? Depends. Is this another excepted service position? Then yes, you qualify.

 

[CurlingHouse]

Oops. Sorry for the typo. Yes, I meant excepted service.

 

[lord999]

Bottom line:
If s/he is in a competitive position, then it's fine. However, there are some pharmacists out there that are under an unusual hire.

http://afgenvac.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Title-38-Frequently-Asked-Questions-AnswerPage.pdf

@bacillus1, since I know your status, you would qualify for a Career Competitive position anyway as Title 38 and Title 5 are under an interchange agreement. Now, there is a special hiring authority for pharmacist under Title 5 Excepted Direct Hiring Authority:
Direct Hire Authority

Pharmacists are still one of the few that work that way. If you are hired under that authority with the BAB code, you are not normally eligible for other positions until you exit Career Conditional status with three years in.

VA does not hire anyway anymore. If you are a so-called Title 38 Hybrid and you are a pharmacist, you actually are a Title 5 Competitive service with Title 38 benefits. However, your hiring authority was done under Title 5, which allows you to interchange positions according to Title 5 rules. This is different than Nurses and Physicians who hire strictly under Title 38 authority, which depending on the contract, can drop you like a bad habit when your term-limited contract expires. Physicians and Nurses hire differently and have vastly different effects on them. For pharmacists, we have the standard Title 5 protections (including 1 year only probation, leave, appeal to OPM and MSPB, job interchange and promotional lines into other series in tandem with Title 5).

By the way, the difference between the leave systems is that pharmacists get the 4-8 hours, but are free to use it whenever they care to alongside supervisory approval. For nurses and physicians, this is very different. The best illustration is:

"I want to take off the next two weeks starting this Monday, and return on Monday afterwards"
Pharmacist - 80 hours used skipping the weekends and holidays
Nurse and Physician, 14-16 days (or 112 at minimum) as they are required to take leave with the military system where leave includes weekends and holidays.

So, while pharmacists cap at 240, this is effectively 6 consecutive weeks off. Nurses and physicians earn 240 hours and 26 days respectively and can bank up to 685/720 and 86 days, and their leaves are much more vulnerable to cancellation than pharmacists. They would have to spend 42-44 days or 336 hours to get the same benefit.

 

[Amicable Angora]

Bottom line:
If s/he is in a competitive position, then it's fine. However, there are some pharmacists out there that are under an unusual hire.

http://afgenvac.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Title-38-Frequently-Asked-Questions-AnswerPage.pdf

@bacillus1, since I know your status, you would qualify for a Career Competitive position anyway as Title 38 and Title 5 are under an interchange agreement. Now, there is a special hiring authority for pharmacist under Title 5 Excepted Direct Hiring Authority:
Direct Hire Authority

Pharmacists are still one of the few that work that way. If you are hired under that authority with the BAB code, you are not normally eligible for other positions until you exit Career Conditional status with three years in.

VA does not hire anyway anymore. If you are a so-called Title 38 Hybrid and you are a pharmacist, you actually are a Title 5 Competitive service with Title 38 benefits. However, your hiring authority was done under Title 5, which allows you to interchange positions according to Title 5 rules. This is different than Nurses and Physicians who hire strictly under Title 38 authority, which depending on the contract, can drop you like a bad habit when your term-limited contract expires. Physicians and Nurses hire differently and have vastly different effects on them. For pharmacists, we have the standard Title 5 protections (including 1 year only probation, leave, appeal to OPM and MSPB, job interchange and promotional lines into other series in tandem with Title 5).

By the way, the difference between the leave systems is that pharmacists get the 4-8 hours, but are free to use it whenever they care to alongside supervisory approval. For nurses and physicians, this is very different. The best illustration is:

"I want to take off the next two weeks starting this Monday, and return on Monday afterwards"
Pharmacist - 80 hours used skipping the weekends and holidays
Nurse and Physician, 14-16 days (or 112 at minimum) as they are required to take leave with the military system where leave includes weekends and holidays.

So, while pharmacists cap at 240, this is effectively 6 consecutive weeks off. Nurses and physicians earn 240 hours and 26 days respectively and can bank up to 685/720 and 86 days, and their leaves are much more vulnerable to cancellation than pharmacists. They would have to spend 42-44 days or 336 hours to get the same benefit.

It's fascinating how slight differences in policy can completely change the actual amount of leave. I would have never thought that there were parallel leave systems in place like that.

 

[pharm B]

It's fascinating how slight differences in policy can completely change the actual amount of leave. I would have never thought that there were parallel leave systems in place like that.

It's maddening. And I forgot about how stupid the military leave system was... Good thing I'm curled up in my DD-214 blanket.