Neuropsychology Postdocs

[NeuroPsyStudent]

We have recently come through another year of APPCN neuropsych postdoc matching. Internship is one thing, but postdocs are two years. Many of us have more geographic inflexibility when it comes to two years of our life!

The Houston guidelines are somewhat blurry about postdocs. I realize that the easiest way to go is through the match, but I wonder about setting up a specialized post-doc with a specific private practice/clinician. There are several world-famous neuropsych private practice clinicians in my area, and I think ultimately they might be as good or better to work than the few match sites in the area. Any thoughts or cautions from the John Snow types?

The other issue would be convincing such clinicians that taking on a postdoc would be financially beneficial. I am willing to work hard for pennies, but probably not for free.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

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[Lunabin]

I've also just come through the match, and after 2 relocations for my schooling (one to go to grad school, the other for internship) my family and I are really feeling the pressure to stay put for a little while.

There are a lot of 'informal' postdoc opportunities in my area (NY), and many places are very willing to hire in order to pay for cheap labor. The problem is how to sell oneself...

I find that pushing my eagerness to do research and pursue publication and/or presentations. However, I'm also in need of suggestions. I haven't started cold-calling places for potential jobs, but it's getting close to that point.

 

[NeuroPsyStudent]

Lunabin,

Did you come through neuropsych postdoc match this year? I'm curious what the match statistics were...how many didn't match?

What are you going to do to make sure your informal postdoc matches Houston guidelines? Is it really so difficult?

I am still in school and haven't done the internship match yet. But I am really stressed at the idea of having to be gone from home for three years. One is doable, but I don't think I will have a mate if it becomes three years away....

 

[Neuro-Dr]

You don't have to do an APPCN fellowship to practice NP or to get boarded through ABCN, ABPdN or ABPN. However, it helps and it saves time and effort. If you do one, you'll be close to gaurenteeing you'll pass the credential review portion of the boards. You can develop your own fellowship and use the HCG objectives to guide your workload in this matter. Currently, no board or organization fully supports the HCG and a new "Summit" will be held this spring. Thus, these guidelines may change.

 

[NeuroPhD]

The aspirations of the APPCN are great, but I would be curious to see how many recent ABPP-NP folks came out of the formal postdocs. I did not go to an APPCN postdoc, but did stay at a major academic medical center where all of my supervisors were ABPP. Graduates from my program have had no difficulty getting their ABPP applications approved. I personally would be leary about doing a postdoc through a private practice, unless there was a clear focus on ABPP preparation. If you are in an area with well-known neuropsychologists than you are are probably in an area with multiple academic medical centers. I would look at those sites before going towards a private practice. I would suggest you download the ABPP application and see in what areas you are likely to be found weak. You can make a postdoc decision based on your ability to meet the requirements. Our field is very small, and good training is recognized whether it is APPCN or not. There is also a Yahoo group for new neuropsychologists that frequently lists new postdocs. Don't be afraid to post to the neuropsychology listserve for advice. For the most part, people in the field are very supportive and will have solid advice.

Good Luck

We have recently come through another year of APPCN neuropsych postdoc matching. Internship is one thing, but postdocs are two years. Many of us have more geographic inflexibility when it comes to two years of our life!

The Houston guidelines are somewhat blurry about postdocs. I realize that the easiest way to go is through the match, but I wonder about setting up a specialized post-doc with a specific private practice/clinician. There are several world-famous neuropsych private practice clinicians in my area, and I think ultimately they might be as good or better to work than the few match sites in the area. Any thoughts or cautions from the John Snow types?

The other issue would be convincing such clinicians that taking on a postdoc would be financially beneficial. I am willing to work hard for pennies, but probably not for free.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[LadyInRed]

Out of curiosity, is it common for people to do their post-docs at the same place that they did their internship, and for people to end up in a full-time position at the site that they did their internship or post-doc? Is there any mentality that if you do your post-doc or internship at a certain site, you are more likely to get hired there afterwards?

 

[Neuro-Dr]

I'm not sure there is much consistency to be honest. I have seen several go from intern to post-doc, I did. In addition, one of our recent fellows did as well with us, so it happens. At issue I think is that a number of the APPCN sites don't take interns and some have general internships in clinical.

As for the number of ABCN coming from APPCN sites, it is quite high. That is a little misleading in that it is expected and "cultured" into all fellows that boarding is expected. Neuropsychology has a "synarchy" that has reps from grad training, internship, division leaders and APPCN, it is controlled by ABCN in the loose sense of the word so students are cultured early. Again, it does not mean you can't meet board criteria without doing an APPCN fellowship though.

 

[Lunabin]

Lunabin,

Did you come through neuropsych postdoc match this year? I'm curious what the match statistics were...how many didn't match?

What are you going to do to make sure your informal postdoc matches Houston guidelines? Is it really so difficult?

I am still in school and haven't done the internship match yet. But I am really stressed at the idea of having to be gone from home for three years. One is doable, but I don't think I will have a mate if it becomes three years away....

I did the match, and results (as with every year) hover around a 50% match rate every year (see below).

My internship is in a generalist program, but I was fortunate to have a lot of flexibility and support to make my experience my own. It's very hard, though. I have a lot of requirements for clinical (therapy) and consultation work, so end up working a lot of hours. I didn't have high expectations for the match (given the match rates) and despite multiple interviews, am pursuing alternatives.

I don't know if it will be hard to make an "informal" postdoc one that meets Houston guidelines, but it's just hard finding the informal postdoc. Again, they are really competitive!

I'm getting ready to start cold-calling local medical centers, and wonder if anyone has any advice as to how to go about this? Does this approach work, or is it more of an irritation to the faculty? Any advice on this would be great!


APPLICANTS
Participation
Applicants Registered in the Match 150
Applicants Who Withdrew or Did Not Submit Ranks 40
Applicants Participating in the Match 110

Match Results
Applicants Matched 61 (55%)
Participating Applicants Not Matched 49 (45%)

Rankings
Average Number of Rankings Submitted Per Applicant
Matched Applicants 4.8
Unmatched Applicants 2.3
Overall 3.7


PROGRAMS
Participation
Training Sites Participating in the Match 47
Programs Participating in the Match 56
Positions Offered in the Match 73

Note: A training site can offer more than one "program" in the Match. Each "program" was identified in the Match by a separate 4-digit code number.

Match Results
Positions: Filled in the Match 61 (84%)
Remaining Unfilled 12 (16%)

Programs: Filled in the Match 47 (84%)
With Unfilled Positions 9 (16%)

Notes:
- No ranks were submitted for 3 positions in 2 programs. These positions and programs remained unfilled and are included in the counts above.
- 1 unfilled program with 1 unfilled position asked to be omitted from the list of programs with available positions after the Match.

Rankings
Average Number of Applicants Ranked Per Position Offered for Each Program
Programs Filling All Positions 6.0
Programs with Unfilled Positions 1.9
All Programs 5.3
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© 2007 NMS

 

[NeuroPhD]

Neuropsychology has a "synarchy" that has reps from grad training, internship, division leaders and APPCN, it is controlled by ABCN in the loose sense of the word so students are cultured early. Again, it does not mean you can't meet board criteria without doing an APPCN fellowship though.

I agree that a two year fellowship as well as eventual board certification is stressed from from early in graduate training. The APPCN fellowships, however, remain a mixed bag. The reality is that some of the APPCN fellowships are weak, and many of the top fellowship sites don't bother with the APPCN. This is particularly true at large academic medical centers with strong internship programs. They can pick and choose from the most competitive interns without having to deal with the match.

 

[NeuroPsyStudent]

Thanks to everyone "in the know" for the great advice on this thread. NeuroPhd, do you have a reference for the Yahoo group you mentioned?

Also, I have visited ABPP but have not found specific guidelines for neuropsychology postdocs. Did you mean the neuropsychology board instead?

I also wonder why a famous private practice clinician would be a second choice. I see a lot of mediocre supervision at the institutional level and using postdocs as testing machines. Fortunately, I have escaped that because I've advocated to work with very specific people in specific situations. Does it look bad to work with an individual for a post-doc? Where are the specific post-doc requirements for neuropsychologists seeking boarding?

I also wonder if most people who create their own postdocs manage to get some $, or is it like a glorified externship?

Thanks!