Neuroscience and Biomedical Engineering

[smallbadwolf]

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Hi, I'm a senior in High school aspiring to become either an opthalmologist or go into radiation oncology and I was wondering which major do any of you think would give me a better foundation for these jobs, neuroscience or biomedical engineering. I've done some research on my own and I know that neuroscience can give me insight into how the brain works with the eye, etc. And BME can help me to make instruments such as prosthetic eyes later down in my career...Anyways, I know that The University of Miami offers both majors, but you cannot minor in either. So do you think it would be possible at all to DOUBLe major in both neuro and BME? If not, then which should I choose?

Sorry for the rant, and thank you all for your reponses.

 

[BrainBuff]

I think you are thinking way ahead here. It is likely that by the time you finish med school ( 8 years from now! ) you could change your mind about specialties since you will be exposed to the whole array of them. Opthalmology and Rad Onc could not be more different form each other ( money, lifestyle and competitive residences are all they have in common ) so that tells me that you could end up doing anything else as well.

It is silly to choose a major on the basis of the possible medical specialty you would end up doing. Medical school is for that. To show the spectrum of medicine and to give you the necessary foundations. Majoring in Neurosciences would only be dramatically helpful if you choose Neurosurgery, Neurology or Psychiatry!

I know of students that take Biochem to be better in Biochem, or Anatomy to be better prepared for med school. It is a waste of time since you need to relearn eveerything all over again.

I suggest you major in whatever subject or field you enjoy. You still need to get accepted into med school and they like well rounded individuals, not someone that wanted to be a surgeon since age 5. Do not forget that.

Congrats with UM, btw... I love the school!!

 

[RapplixGmed]

I'm in agreement with BrainBuff, don't choose a major because it will help you with medical school because quite honestly... it won't. If you like learning about how the brain works, do neuroscience, if you think engineering seems more interesting, do that.

However, I would like to say that you will learn most parts of neuroscience all over again in med school while you will not get any engineering in med school. If you think you might be interested in engineering later in your career, then its probably more prudent to do that because you will likely not get another chance. Remember, you don't want to be redundant in your education, don't be one of those guys who did their BS, MS, PhD in neuroanatomy and doesn't know anything about anything else (although that is ok in a way too but not for med unless you only want to do research) do stuff that is varied early on, you can always concentrate later. I'm getting BSes in biomedical engineering and physics and I want to do a MD/PhD in either physiology or immunology, the more stuff you are exposed to in science/medicine, the better.

 

[EpiPEN]

Coming from someone who majored in Biomedical engineering, I have to tell you, you got to actually want to do this. Cuz engineering is no joke for a pre-med becuase you will probably have lower GPA than your traditional pre-med counterparts. In Biomed Eng you end up learning way more math you will ever need to become a doctor (which can be a good thing). The more I learned bioengineering the more the major seemed to be a let down becuase you don't learn enough biochem and bio to make you feel like you know your way in a bio lab, at the same time you don't know enough physics and math to make you feel like an expert engineer. That's why if you are interested in this, you would have to get a Masters or a Ph.D to really know your stuff (or if you take extra classes or get a second major/minor). However you will become a more unique candidate for medical school during your interviews because of your background (it helped me at least since I said I want to be a "cutting edge" doc who can integrate engineering into medicine). So in conclusion, neuroscience is probably more in line of what you might want to learn to be a doctor I think (can't say for sure, didn't major in it). But bioengineering only if you are ready to take pain and lose lots of sleep becuase you will be doing both, although you might get a more unique experience.

 

[nlax30]

Coming from someone who majored in.....

Off topic, but I like your signature. Came across those comics a few days ago and saw that one specifically, some of them are pretty funny.

Anyway, I agree with everything that's been said. Major in something that really interests you and that you think you could do well in. Don't worry about trying to pick the "right" major in prep for med school, it won't matter. We have everyone from fresh out of undergrad english and bio majors, non-trads who have owned their own business, and PhDs....and for the most part, in just a short time everyone is pretty much on a level playing field.

I'd say only do the Biomedical engineering if you don't mind getting into the engineering side of things, definitely NOT an easy path from what I've heard. I'm not sure how much it overlaps with the usual med school pre-reqs, but I'd imagine a Neuroscience (if it's through the Bio dept) would cover pretty much all the pre-reqs as is. At my undergrad I believe it technically was a tract off of a Bio major, but was heavily integrated into the Pysch department.

 

[Natasha029]

I agree with everyone. Don't pick your undergrad based on what you think you want to do 8-10 years from now.
That's like buying -7 glasses now because you think you will need them 10 years from you. LOL far off, I know, but still.

Most pre-meds do biology and chemistry, its not that it's what they're/we're supposed to do.. we just.. err.. do.

A lot of schools now-a-days are getting into interdisciplinary majors where you can basically have 3-4 minors.. you can get your basic pre-med requirements and them some, so you're not wasting 20 hours on plant anatomy. Gah... my most hated subject. But that's me.

My best bit of advice is to start of with biology or chemistry, get your first 30-40 core university degree requirements out the way and after the first semester or two, hopefully, it will dawn on you what major you really belong in. All universities require the maths, english, and humanities, do that and some bio or chem.. you'll get the hang of what you want.

Remember, its not just about the major.. its about your overall self, the mcat, interview and your ability to succeed as a physician.

You & me got's a while to go before we declare a specialty. I have quite a few friends that are 2nd and 3rd year med students (LSU & Tulane) and they have noo clue what they want to do.. not that they aren't smart, they are just fascinated by everything.

And most importantly, hang out here! =]

 

[smallbadwolf]

Thanks a lot for your responses. I've had some conversations with my biology teacher about this and she recommends the same as you guys. It seems that I will have to adventure a bit more to see what I really want to concentrate on...

 

[paranoid_eyes]

neuroscience is one of the MOST interesting majors you can take. It combines everything (genetics, molbio, physiology, etc.) and there is TONS of research in the field.

as to it's impact on your future goals, it won't make a difference. Both are very challenging majors but id venture to say that neuro is a little easier than BME depending on how good you are at physics. I'd personally recommend neuro, especially if you are interested in the brain.

 

[zpiff]

Go with the major you would most enjoy if you couldn't go to medical school after. A lot can change in your time in college and ADCOMs don't care about undergraduate major you had.

 

[UVAbme2009]

As a third year BME student, I'm going to recommend that you do not major in BME unless you are POSITIVE that is what you want to do. I'm guessing you don't need to decide until after your first year of college, so wait until at least then. Look at the curriculum in depth and find out if it's really something you're interested in.

Majoring in BME was the biggest mistake of my life. Fortunately, it helped me not spend another year in school trying to fulfill my pre-reqs for medical school (I didn't decide to go this route until last June). So luckily for me the only pre-req I had left was orgo.

BME is on a whole different level than any other major, especially when you're pre-med. Frankly, I find it ridiculous that Ad-Coms don't take into consideration what you're major is. While a philosophy major is taking some 300 level philosophy course, I'm taking computational BME that calls on me to put at least 10 hours - sometimes more - a week into projects and homeworks.

Just to get an idea, I'm currently studying for the June MCAT, working on a month long ultrasound project for a BME class, working on a modeling project for computational BME, finishing up carbohydrates, lipids, amino acids, and DNA is orgo, doing a two week mass spec/protein lab for orgo lab, and also doing research for credit. On top of that is volunteering, a few groups, and trying to have some semblance of a life.

Take it from me, every pre-med has a relatively tough path. But if you want to make it easier on yourself, don't do BME just because you think it will help you out. Besides, if you want to actually do something like make prosthetic eyes, you're going to need to go further than a BS in BME. Ask anyone, a BS in BME pretty much gets you nowhere.

 

[paranoid_eyes]

As a third year BME student, I'm going to recommend that you do not major in BME unless you are POSITIVE that is what you want to do.

all the premed engineers ive talked to say this. but the up side is that engineers do SO well on the MCAT.

 

[RapplixGmed]

all the premed engineers ive talked to say this. but the up side is that engineers do SO well on the MCAT.

I think it comes from the realization that a kick *** mcat is the only way to save a typical premed engineer from his extremely low gpa.

 

[zpiff]

I think it comes from the realization that a kick *** mcat is the only way to save a typical premed engineer from his extremely low gpa.

Haha. Zing!

 

[shawn128]

Uh, did you just connect BME with a minor?

There's...no such thing lol

Being an engineer is a demanding degree choice. You better make damn sure you want to do it before you go ahead.

 

[SirGecko]

I'd like to go ahead and confirm what the other BME's said. BME is hard. It is hard on your GPA and it makes it rather difficult to get into medical school. (it isn't just hard because the BME classes are hard, its also the amount of work that you have to do while you are taking the premed courses that are everyone elses most difficult class; opportunity cost!)

Personally, I like BME. I find it interesting and rewarding. But if I could go back and make the decision again I think I'd choose an easier major. (like bio, I love biology)

Oh and you won't do anything nearly as cool as making prosthetic eyes with just a BS in BME. And unless you go the MD/PHD route you won't be on the design side of anything like that as a doctor. (I've always heard that any MD's associated with the design of a medical device are usually working on the clinical end of the project)

 

[EpiPEN]

I think it comes from the realization that a kick *** mcat is the only way to save a typical premed engineer from his extremely low gpa.

yeah seriously, if you have a 3.5+ GPA as a BME pre-med student then there's a good chance you know your ****. But most of the BME people who get close to 4.0 go to grad school for Ph.D instead of med school.

 

[Hurricane95]

OP, I graduated in 2006 from UMiami with a degree in BME and am currently at UM med finishing up my second year.

Unlike some of the other posters before me (it really is an individual opinion kind of thing), I really loved majoring in BME and would not have done anything differently if I had to repeat it all over again. I have three very good friends who majored in neuroscience so I actually know quite a bit about both programs at Miami. Both majors will prepare you equally well for medical school. Choosing which one to go into really boils down to two things: which one you think you will enjoy more, and which one of the two will give you a career you can enjoy and do for the rest of your life if for whatever reason you don't go to medical school. I picked engineering because I found it fascinating (do some research on what the entire profession of BME encompasses and you will be blown away) and because straight out of high school I wasn't 100% sure I would go into medicine. BME provides you with an excellent alternate career, even with just a BS. An MS will really open more doors/$$$ for you and there is a combined BS/MS program available in which you can complete both degrees in 5 years instead of 4+2.

If you follow the "pre-med" route, both majors will have you taking all of the same required classes for medical school: biology, chemistry, organic, etc. Neuroscience is through the school of arts and sciences and in this major you will have to complete a greater number of social science and humanities electives than in BME. It's part of the curriculum. Additionally you will be taking extra higher level courses in the biology department (like endocrinology, physiology, developmental biology, etc.) as well as several major-specific classes dealing directly with neuroscience. Most students in neuro get involved in undergraduate research of some type at the medical school at the latest by fourth year and this can help you make contacts and meet people. It is a great major to prepare you for medical school. However, if you do NOT go to med school, a BS in neuroscience is pretty worthless. In order to make a half-decent living (and do anything but petty lab-slave work or teach high school bio for the rest of your life) you will pretty much have to get a PhD and prepare for a career in research. The PhD can take anywhere from 4-7 years....that's how it is.

Engineering is more intense in that it is not just a major but actually a professional program of sorts, like architecture for example. It's preparing you for a job in the industry straight out of school pretty much. That being said the curriculum has fewer of the extra required humanities and SS classes to make room for the extra classes in BME. Words of warning: the program is extremely heavy in math and physics. That's how it is. If you love these subjects and do well in them in high school, you should not be worried. This really depends on the individual Some people hate it, others love it. Keep in mind you will have many, many courses that do not DIRECTLY apply to a future career as a doctor. You will spend many hours in design labs playing with electrical circuits, writing often very frustrating programs in matlab (sometimes pulling your hair out), taking physics WITH calculus instead of without, doing higher math like differential equations, signal processing, etc. You also have to do a year-long senior design project in which you essentially design, plan, construct, test and "market" either a new device or research study under the guidance of a faculty mentor.

Is the program time-consuming and difficult? Yes, but very doable. It is NOT pre-med suicide as some people say. My graduating class of BME in '06 had about 30-something students, and about 10 of us were pre-med. Five of us (myself included) are now second years at UM med. Another guy went to FSU, another three went to medical schools out of state and only one guy didn't make it and stayed in engineering (he also happened to not take the mcat seriously and blew it off). That's 90% that got into med school in the first try. That's pretty damn good. I managed to get almost a 3.9 GPA, crush the mcat, maintain several EC, shadow docs fairly regularly AND maintain a very active social life at the same time. I enjoyed the program and would recommend it if you think you may be interested. Again it varies depending on individual preference. I would do it again if I were back in high school.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM me. If you'd like I can give you a tour of the campus and facilities and introduce you to the dept. faculty so you can see at least see what the place is like. The only thing is I probably won't be free until mid-june (I will be studying for the USMLE Step 1), but let me know. On a final note, congrats on UM!! Any major you choose will be great and you will love the campus...the girls are amazing too...you'll be blown away 😀

 

[Hurricane95]

As an extra note: everything I wrote above applies to BME at the University of Miami. While I love my school, I know (I'll state this before I get flamed about it) that UM is NOT an ivy league or a top program in the country. There are many other schools at which engineering is much more difficult and can really kill your chances of being a doctor. If you try premed as an engineer at cornell (just to randomly pick a hard-*** school), they will kill you and drink your blood

But since you directly mentioned UM in your message, I assumed this was the school you decided to attend. In that case my post applies.

 

[se2131]

I can guarantee you that an undergraduate BME degree will not prepare you in any way, shape, or form for making prosthetics. In fact, undergraduate degrees in general do not prepare you very well for a career. It's mostly on-the-job training.

Neuroscience will be relatively easier (but still more difficult than most pre-med paths). Go with this if you absolutely have to decide b/wn the two majors, because you'll want to keep your GPA up. Only do BME as a major if you're not absolutely certain about medicine, and if you want a good backup plan (you can make some good money w/ an undergrad BME degree)

 

[paranoid_eyes]

I can guarantee you that an undergraduate BME degree will not prepare you in any way, shape, or form for making prosthetics. In fact, undergraduate degrees in general do not prepare you very well for a career. It's mostly on-the-job training.

This is very true.

 

[Monkey House]

Major in Electrical Engineering instead. EE actually gives you a core of knowledge where BME is so diffuse that its hard to ever become an expert. At my school, the BME's learn a little of everything and thus graduate knowing a lot of nothing. I mean what can you pick up from one class in Mechanical, one in EE, one in vision, one in tissue etc. At least with EE you go deep into one area and leave being able to do something. You can apply EE right to the electrical activity and circuitry of the brain.

Warning: EE is not a 'pre-med' friendly major and will test your GPA.

 

[smallbadwolf]

thank you a lot for your responses...

I am actually quite gifted at MOST parts of math...at least what I've come across in math in my high school career, and that's AP Calculus (BC) which is just regular calculus in 2 dimensions with a little bit of series, vectors, and differential equations (i'm in the IB program also).

As for physics, I only took the AP class and I managed to get a 4 out of 5 on the exam, although honestly I didn't know half the time what I was doing because I thought it was pretty difficult. It WAS however very interesting.

Biology interests me a LOT also however, especially its implications on humans and medicine.

But my dream is to end up going to one of most prestigious med schools in the nation (duke/johns hopkins/harvard etc.) and I know that a 3.5 gpa, even with a BME degree won't cut it at all. From what I've heard from you guys, getting a 3.8+ GPA in engineering seems especially difficult, at least when compared to neuroscience.

Do you guys know any other "nontraditional" majors that relates to the natural sciences or math (or both) by any chance? Is psychology a relatively easy major to get a high GPA, for example? Thanks again for the responses. You guys have no idea how much you are helping me!!

 

[sawood]

Major in Electrical Engineering instead. EE actually gives you a core of knowledge where BME is so diffuse that its hard to ever become an expert. At my school, the BME's learn a little of everything and thus graduate knowing a lot of nothing. I mean what can you pick up from one class in Mechanical, one in EE, one in vision, one in tissue etc. At least with EE you go deep into one area and leave being able to do something. You can apply EE right to the electrical activity and circuitry of the brain.

Warning: EE is not a 'pre-med' friendly major and will test your GPA.

Eek! Or you could major in mechanical if you don't like electrical (I personally avoided it at all costs 😉)

To the OP, I had a few comments to consider. I did my undergrad in mechanical, I am doing an MS in BMED currently, and am heading off to med school in the fall.....

First, I agree an undergraduate degree in BMED does tend to lean towards being broad, however you can opt to take additional classess if you feel you aren't getting the depth you want in a certain area. If you were going into the BMED industry itself I would recommend an undergrad in mechanical 🙂hardy🙂 or EE 🙂sleep🙂, and then Masters in BMED.

Second, my personal experience is that the engineering classes are more enjoyable and straightforward for me than the biology type classes. I did well in both, but it feels easier for me in things when I can understand the basic equations and concepts and then apply them, instead of large volumes of memorization. I am good at and enjoy math, I like equations, and I really love microsoft Excel. If this sounds like you, then you might actually thrive in BMED more than Neuroscience. "Difficult" is relative: what's difficult for one person comes quite easy to another.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Wow.

I was a BME in college at JHU. It destroyed my GPA. There were plenty of other people who did well, but they were either geniuses or put in a crapload of work. It is simply a tough, tough major. You really have to enjoy it, otherwise you're going to have a miserable time.

That being said, graduate high school first. Go to premed meetings your freshman year. Figure out what you want to do then.