Neurosurgery and giving back to the community

[Cuongoff]

Currently, I want to pursue a career in either neurosurgery, internal medicine, or maybe cardiology/cardiac surgery. I can't see myself in an office seeing patients all day, that's why internal medicine appeals to me. You work throughout the hospital seeing patients. I also want to do something with my hands and have always been interested in the brain, spine and nervous system. The heart is also something that I recently fell in love learning about it. For an early interview thing my school had with VCOM, I had neurosurgery set in mind as a possible career chose and apparently was red-flagged and not given an early acceptance just because I said I wanted to give back to my community and be a neurosurgeon. Why is it wrong to think that I truly want to give back to the community AND have a job that I find enjoyable AND pay well? Is it that hard to believe that a person can be altruistic with high ambition?

Sorry, I wanted to vent.

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[DrWily]

Currently, I want to pursue a career in either neurosurgery, internal medicine, or maybe cardiology/cardiac surgery. I can't see myself in an office seeing patients all day, that's why internal medicine appeals to me. You work throughout the hospital seeing patients. I also want to do something with my hands and have always been interested in the brain, spine and nervous system. The heart is also something that I recently fell in love learning about it. For an early interview thing my school had with VCOM, I had neurosurgery set in mind as a possible career chose and apparently was red-flagged and not given an early acceptance just because I said I wanted to give back to my community and be a neurosurgeon. Why is it wrong to think that I truly want to give back to the community AND have a job that I find enjoyable AND pay well? Is it that hard to believe that a person can be altruistic with high ambition?

Sorry, I wanted to vent.

Probably seems like a gunner/heart not in right place/going into medicine to make money/lolneurosurgery.

Play the game. Say you want to be a primary care doctor.

Edit: Pretty sure all DO schools have some kind of mission statement about supplying physicians to underserved areas/rural areas/affordable healthcare for all. Being a neurosurgeon doesn't exactly fit this criteria. Sometimes it's best to keep your true intentions hidden.

 

[Mbeas]

First of all, I seriously doubt you were rejected just because you want to go into neurosurgery. Second of all, it sounds like you don't know what you want to go into. You listed four different fields (ranging from general medicine, to the heart, to the brain), three of which are highly competitive. Third of all, each school has a mission. You may have interests, but you need to align your interests with their mission statement. Schools accept people that are going to advance their mission. You obviously didn't make that evident. Don't lie, be creative.

 

[DrWily]

First of all, I seriously doubt you were rejected just because you want to go into neurosurgery. Second of all, it sounds like you don't know what you want to go into. You listed four different fields (ranging from general medicine, to the heart, to the brain), three of which are highly competitive. Third of all, each school has a mission. You may have interests, but you need to align your interests with their mission statement. Schools accept people that are going to advance their mission. You obviously didn't make that evident. Don't lie, be creative.

Lying is easier than being creative. Bam!

 

[chiddler]

First of all, I seriously doubt you were rejected just because you want to go into neurosurgery. Second of all, it sounds like you don't know what you want to go into. You listed four different fields (ranging from general medicine, to the heart, to the brain), three of which are highly competitive. Third of all, each school has a mission. You may have interests, but you need to align your interests with their mission statement. Schools accept people that are going to advance their mission. You obviously didn't make that evident. Don't lie, be creative.

for something as innocuous as "i want to be a primary care physician", i don't see much harm is just lying about it.

 

[HalfListic]

for something as innocuous as "i want to be a primary care physician", i don't see much harm is just lying about it.

Maybe try, "I primarily care about becoming a physician" or "I want to be a primarily caring physician" and just say it fast...

 

[DrWily]

In it to win it. Neurosurgery or bust.

 

[Temperature101]

Probably seems like a gunner/heart not in right place/going into medicine to make money/lolneurosurgery.

Play the game. Say you want to be a primary care doctor.

Edit: Pretty sure all DO schools have some kind of mission statement about supplying physicians to underserved areas/rural areas/affordable healthcare for all. Being a neurosurgeon doesn't exactly fit this criteria. Sometimes it's best to keep your true intentions hidden.[/QUOTE]
That is kind of being dishonest...People MUST always tell the truth

 

[Cuongoff]

At the interview, I didn't mention the other fields. And I think I said something along the lines of wanting to be a neurosurgeon because it's something I've always been interested in and I also believe in giving back so I would try and offer my services to free clinics because the one I intern at lack access to specialties, and I thought this incorporates the two very well.
And I also mention, as of right now, this is what I want. Don't they know that premeds go in thinking they'll do one thing and come out doing something different?

First of all, I seriously doubt you were rejected just because you want to go into neurosurgery. Second of all, it sounds like you don't know what you want to go into. You listed four different fields (ranging from general medicine, to the heart, to the brain), three of which are highly competitive. Third of all, each school has a mission. You may have interests, but you need to align your interests with their mission statement. Schools accept people that are going to advance their mission. You obviously didn't make that evident. Don't lie, be creative.

+1 to you my good sir. I laughed heartedly.

Maybe try, "I primarily care about becoming a physician" or "I want to be a primarily caring physician" and just say it fast...

 

[Temperature101]

Probably seems like a gunner/heart not in right place/going into medicine to make money/lolneurosurgery.

Play the game. Say you want to be a primary care doctor.

Edit: Pretty sure all DO schools have some kind of mission statement about supplying physicians to underserved areas/rural areas/affordable healthcare for all. Being a neurosurgeon doesn't exactly fit this criteria. Sometimes it's best to keep your true intentions hidden.

That is kind of being dishonest. People MUST always tell the truth.

 

[Cuongoff]

I don't know if you're kidding or not, but this is really how I approach things. Especially since it's extremely important, I find it hard to lie and that during interviews, I come across more likable and personable if I tell the truth.

That is kind of being dishonest. People MUST always tell the truth.

 

[MedPR]

That is kind of being dishonest. People MUST always tell the truth.

Obvious troll is obvious.

 

[DrWily]

That is kind of being dishonest. People MUST always tell the truth.

Good luck with that one. I highly doubt every single one of my 250 classmates all wanted to be primary care physicians, but I bet 80% of them said they did in their interview. All part of the game.

 

[Temperature101]

Good luck with that one. I highly doubt every single one of my 250 classmates all wanted to be primary care physicians, but I bet 80% of them said they did in their interview. All part of the game.

Wow...People really do that! I must play the game as well...Thanks for letting me know.

 

[DrWily]

Wow...People really do that! I must play the game as well...Thanks for letting me know.

What is this? I don't even

 

[Temperature101]

Obvious troll is obvious.

It was not a troll because before submitting they say that the application must be accurate..It's kind of you sign on the doted lines... I was hesitant to put anything that I cant substantiate...For instance, I went on a medical trip in Central America to help my brother (a director of a hospital in that country) after a hurricane...I did not put it on the app since I cant provide any documentions about it.

 

[DrWily]

It was not a troll because before submitting they say that the application must be accurate..It's kind of you sign on the doted lines... I was hesitant to put anything that I cant substantiate...For instance, I went on a medical trip in Central America to help my brother (a director of a hospital in that country) after a hurricane...I did not put it on the app since I can provide any documentions about it.

How is saying that you are interested in primary care during an interview have anything to do with your AACOMAS application? I can say that I'm interested in primary care, yup it's interesting, but whao I just thought of neurosurgery, totally interested in that now. Should I keep the neurosurgery thought to myself during an interview? You bet because I'm trying to be a physician to help people, in whatever specialty I ultimately decide and saying neurosurgery is a sure way to give people the wrong idea about my motivation/intentions.

 

[Temperature101]

How is saying that you are interested in primary care during an interview have anything to do with your AACOMAS application? I can say that I'm interested in primary care, yup it's interesting, but whao I just thought of neurosurgery, totally interested in that now. Should I keep the neurosurgery thought to myself during an interview? You bet because I'm trying to be a physician to help people, in whatever specialty I ultimately decide and saying neurosurgery is a sure way to give people the wrong idea about my motivation/intentions.

I stated my interest in my personal statement...Maybe I should have put primary care so I could be a more attractive applicant...

 

[Cuongoff]

Yea, I did this as well. That might have been a huge mistake.

I stated my interest in my personal statement...Maybe I should have put primary care so I could be a more attractive applicant...

 

[MedPR]

It was not a troll because before submitting they say that the application must be accurate..It's kind of you sign on the doted lines... I was hesitant to put anything that I cant substantiate...For instance, I went on a medical trip in Central America to help my brother (a director of a hospital in that country) after a hurricane...I did not put it on the app since I can provide any documentions about it.

Saying you're interested/open to primary care doesn't need to be substantiated. You want to be a physician to help people. There's a shortage of PCPs. You want to fill that void. End of story.

 

[DrWily]

I stated my interest in my personal statement...Maybe I should have put primary care so I could be a more attractive applicant...

Yea, I did this as well. That might have been a huge mistake.

Maybe you shouldn't have listed any specific specialty and listed your reasons for going into medicine in general i.e. "to help people."

 

[MedPR]

I'm interested in just about everything except OB/GYN and Peds. Why? Because everything is interesting except delivering babies and having screaming children in my office 5 days a week.

 

[Mbeas]

for something as innocuous as "i want to be a primary care physician", i don't see much harm is just lying about it.

It's called principle, bro.

Moral high road FTW

 

[DrWily]

Edit: I should quit before I get myself in deep. I'm out.

Everyone: Don't lie on your application/interview. It's immoral and wrong. Always tell the truth. Always. Especially when you want to be a neurosurgeon. Tell everyone.

 

[MedPR]

.

 

[Cuongoff]

I agree. I am not a big fan of kids. This is a definite no no for me.

I'm interested in just about everything except OB/GYN and Peds. Why? Because everything is interesting except delivering babies and having screaming children in my office 5 days a week.

 

[HalfListic]

I'm interested in just about everything except OB/GYN and Peds. Why? Because everything is interesting except delivering babies and having screaming children in my office 5 days a week.

I think you have this backwards...delivery is the only cool thing about OB/GYN. The rest...not the best.

Im with you on Peds though. I love kids actually...but peds would be too much

 

[Mosonik]

Not saying that VCOM rejected you for this reason but if they had it seems only fair that they have every right. There are PLENTY of schools out there that don't stress primary care specialties but VCOM is committed to it so maybe you just aren't a good fit for what they want. It's their mission, nothing against you're fully legitimate goals. Best of luck in your apps and hope you get in somewhere!

 

[HalfListic]

Edit: I should quit before I get myself in deep. I'm out.

Everyone: Don't lie on your application/interview. It's immoral and wrong. Always tell the truth. Always. Especially when you want to be a neurosurgeon. Tell everyone.

Personally, I got this in a few colors for each of my interviews...it just seemed right:

 

[MedPR]

I think you have this backwards...delivery is the only cool thing about OB/GYN. The rest...not the best.

Im with you on Peds though. I love kids actually...but peds would be too much

I love kids too, just not when they're kicking and screaming.

 

[DrWily]

Personally, I got this in a few colors for each of my interviews...it just seemed right:

That's a pretty bold statement right there.

 

[HalfListic]

That's a pretty bold statement right there.

What can I say, I cannot tell a lie...

 

[cliquesh]

Ch hb

 

[DrWily]

What can I say, I cannot tell a lie...

 

[Bacchus]

At the interview, I didn't mention the other fields. And I think I said something along the lines of wanting to be a neurosurgeon because it's something I've always been interested in and I also believe in giving back so I would try and offer my services to free clinics because the one I intern at lack access to specialties, and I thought this incorporates the two very well.
And I also mention, as of right now, this is what I want. Don't they know that premeds go in thinking they'll do one thing and come out doing something different?



+1 to you my good sir. I laughed heartedly.

Eh, as a neurosurgeon you won't be offering pro-bono surgeries. Unless you're forking the $250,000+ for an operation out of pocket I don't see your sponsoring hospital donating too much free money. You could volunteer at a clinic and give free basic evaluations but if they turn to surgery as the corrective measure its going to be improbable. Injections? Maybe. Consults? Sure. Spine or brain surgery? No.

 

[Cuongoff]

Eh, as a neurosurgeon you won't be offering pro-bono surgeries. Unless you're forking the $250,000+ for an operation out of pocket I don't see your sponsoring hospital donating too much free money. You could volunteer at a clinic and give free basic evaluations but if they turn to surgery as the corrective measure its going to be improbable. Injections? Maybe. Consults? Sure. Spine or brain surgery? No.

Yea I figured I run into this problem. But that's for future me to handle ha.

Do you know if neurosurgeons are allowed to diagnose and practice (in a free clinic setting) as a family doc or internal medicine doc? One of my friends said that because they have to go through a year of internal medicine, that it's doable.

 

[corpsman33]

Eh, as a neurosurgeon you won't be offering pro-bono surgeries. Unless you're forking the $250,000+ for an operation out of pocket I don't see your sponsoring hospital donating too much free money. You could volunteer at a clinic and give free basic evaluations but if they turn to surgery as the corrective measure its going to be improbable. Injections? Maybe. Consults? Sure. Spine or brain surgery? No.

I don't think this is 100% true in all cases.

I worked at a Community Hospital in the surgical CVU/ICU for 4 years and many of our patients were very indigent (often homeless). It was expected that the Cardiothoracic Surgeons do a certain number of "pro-bono" cases for these individuals that needed the procedures. I am sure the individuals still got bills for other services (i.e. medical supplies, support staff, etc.), but the actually surgery was provided cost-free by the surgeons.

I am not sure the logistics regarding neurosurgery in this regard. Perhaps a current Neurosurgeon who works at a community hospital can chime in.

 

[GIpremed]

Maybe try, "I primarily care about becoming a physician" or "I want to be a primarily caring physician" and just say it fast...

Ha! Almost missed this gem

 

[MedPR]

I don't think this is 100% true in all cases.

I worked at a Community Hospital in the surgical CVU/ICU for 4 years and many of our patients were very indigent (often homeless). It was expected that the Cardiothoracic Surgeons do a certain number of "pro-bono" cases for these individuals that needed the procedures. I am sure the individuals still got bills for other services (i.e. medical supplies, support staff, etc.), but the actually surgery was provided cost-free by the surgeons.

I am not sure the logistics regarding neurosurgery in this regard. Perhaps a current Neurosurgeon who works at a community hospital can chime in.

I assume any surgeries performed gratis would also come with an absolutely zero liability clause. Can you imagine a surgeon working for free then getting sued by the pt? Wow that would suck.

 

[Kvothe]

I've heard that a big problem with pro-bono NS is that you have a very specialized intra-OR staff to do procedures + specialized post-op care + PT... basically a whole army of people need to be doing free work for it to happen

 

[corpsman33]

I've heard that a big problem with pro-bono NS is that you have a very specialized intra-OR staff to do procedures + specialized post-op care + PT... basically a whole army of people need to be doing free work for it to happen

True.....but cardiothoracic surgery is almost equally as specialized and also requires a specialized cardiac surgery nursing staff, specialized cardiac anesthesiologist, specialized follow-up care, etc..... And like I said, the doctors were expected to provide a certain number of cardiothoracic surgeries for free at this particular hospital.

I am not sure if this is common practice everywhere, but a huge population of the patients at this hospital did not have medical insurance, and therefore the physicians stepped up to provide treatment to these individuals.

Of course they fully charged the insurance companies in the majority of their surgical cases and still made an incredible income.

 

[MedicalMBA]

Honestly, I see declaring primary care as your passion in medicine is another one of the many hoops you have to jump through in this medical process. Every school has a right to declare their own mission, and most in the case of DO are centered around primary care in underserved areas.

Now, I'm sure that most adcom members realize that a lot of the applicants are BSing when they say they want to do primary care, and so it becomes one of their jobs to figure out which applicants truly are interested in fulfilling their mission. However, when an applicant comes forth and directly states they want to specialize in a different field, their job becomes much easier and you stand out, I would argue, in a bad way. Do all applicants that say they want to specialize get rejected? No. But, there is probably a right way to say you want to specialize and a wrong way. I'd rather not stand out in this case.

Is it dishonest? yes. But the schools and medical school process has effectively forced me to act in this manner. If it comes down to not being 100 percent truthful or being rejected, I have no issue with being the former especially when it comes to something as harmless as this.

However, I encourage ALL my fellow med. school applicants to stick to their morals and declare a specialty at your interview...less competition for me! 👍 😀

 

[DrWily]

Honestly, I see declaring primary care as your passion in medicine is another one of the many hoops you have to jump through in this medical process. Every school has a right to declare their own mission, and most in the case of DO are centered around primary care in underserved areas.

Now, I'm sure that most adcom members realize that a lot of the applicants are BSing when they say they want to do primary care, and so it becomes one of their jobs to figure out which applicants truly are interested in fulfilling their mission. However, when an applicant comes forth and directly states they want to specialize in a different field, their job becomes much easier and you stand out, I would argue, in a bad way. Do all applicants that say they want to specialize get rejected? No. But, there is probably a right way to say you want to specialize and a wrong way. I'd rather not stand out in this case.

Is it dishonest? yes. But the schools and medical school process has effectively forced me to act in this manner. If it comes down to not being 100 percent truthful or being rejected, I have no issue with being the former especially when it comes to something as harmless as this.

However, I encourage ALL my fellow med. school applicants to stick to their morals and declare a specialty at your interview...less competition for me! 👍 😀

Nailed it. Up top ^5

 

[HalfListic]

Honestly, I see declaring primary care as your passion in medicine is another one of the many hoops you have to jump through in this medical process. Every school has a right to declare their own mission, and most in the case of DO are centered around primary care in underserved areas.

Now, I'm sure that most adcom members realize that a lot of the applicants are BSing when they say they want to do primary care, and so it becomes one of their jobs to figure out which applicants truly are interested in fulfilling their mission. However, when an applicant comes forth and directly states they want to specialize in a different field, their job becomes much easier and you stand out, I would argue, in a bad way. Do all applicants that say they want to specialize get rejected? No. But, there is probably a right way to say you want to specialize and a wrong way. I'd rather not stand out in this case.

Is it dishonest? yes. But the schools and medical school process has effectively forced me to act in this manner. If it comes down to not being 100 percent truthful or being rejected, I have no issue with being the former especially when it comes to something as harmless as this.

However, I encourage ALL my fellow med. school applicants to stick to their morals and declare a specialty at your interview...less competition for me! 👍 😀

Here, here! 😉

 

[Mbeas]

Now, I'm sure that most adcom members realize that a lot of the applicants are BSing when they say they want to do primary care, and so it becomes one of their jobs to figure out which applicants truly are interested in fulfilling their mission.

They hear the same stuff all the time. During my orientation week, they asked the class how many people wanted to go into primary care. About %50 of the people raised their hands. Then, it was mentioned that %90 of the matriculants had said at their interview that they wanted to go into primary care. That's why I don't understand the reason for lying about it. I'd rather people say "I don't know". Seriously, you aren't fooling anyone with your "desire to go into primary care, practice in an underserved community, build a free clinic, donate all of your money to charity" etc.

The best advice given for interviewing is "just be yourself". Not sure why that has to change for this question.

 

[DrWily]

The best advice given for interviewing is "just be yourself". Not sure why that has to change for this question.

The majority of people just want to be physicians. They probably don't have any idea what they really want to do in the long run. Some may be ambitious like the OP, and some may really want to do family practice.

However, I can see a definite positive correlation between saying family practice and gaining admission vs a negative correlation saying [insert highly specialized field] and acceptance.

The admissions system is really a game (like I have alluded to above). Schools have mission statements that spout off rural this and underserved family practice that. It's the niche that the AOA continues to declare the best field for D.O.s to fill in America. If schools were really intent on producing family practice doctors, they wouldn't allow clubs for every single specialty on campus.

 

[MedicalMBA]

I feel like saying "I don't know" would be the worst of all the choices. Shows you haven't thought about what you want to do with your future in medicine. If adcom members are indeed looking for applicants to match their mission statement, then it seems most advantageous to give them what they want; assuming you can show authenticity and convince them.

That's the strategy I'm going with...everything else about my interview answers will be honest, but this is the one question I feel I need to embellish. Still, to each his own. There are too many variables in the interview process to be able to validate any real strategy. Just trying to give myself the best possible chance of getting accepted...as are we all. 🙂

 

[gatorfann14]

I assume any surgeries performed gratis would also come with an absolutely zero liability clause. Can you imagine a surgeon working for free then getting sued by the pt? Wow that would suck.

That't not how it works. Once you have a medical relationship with a patient whether written or implied then you are responsible for their care and can be sued if you mess up, even if you weren't paid for the care.

 

[AmicaVera]

If you want to be honest, just spin it. Off the top of my head, I've heard of a tri-city area in the south sharing ONE neurosurgeon and just shuttling him around because they couldn't recruit anyone else. Talk about how being a neurosurgeon and working in the middle of nowhere could improve stroke outcomes, GSW, long term brain damage, etc. You want to do interesting and dynamic work, but you believe that everyone deserves top quality medical care.

Spin, spin, spin. I bet the honesty would be refreshing.

 

[Mbeas]

It's the niche that the AOA continues to declare the best field for D.O.s to fill in America

This is more of an acknowledgment by national medical organizations (both AMA/AOA) to fill a significant shortage. Certainly not DO specific, although DO's do occupy a greater percentage in that field. Can't say I can blame the AOA here.

Medical schools know the world need surgeons, etc. Also, they like diversity. I don't think they would be perfectly content with a class dedicated to one field.

I feel like saying "I don't know" would be the worst of all the choices. Shows you haven't thought about what you want to do with your future in medicine.

People are different. Some have known what they wanted to go into since they were 5, some people don't know. To give a specific answer (without significant reason) implies that you have explored most of your options, which you probably haven't. Again, if you have good reasons for what field you want to pursue, excellent. But, don't frown upon people who don't know. They're just weighing their options.

Also, just wanted to clarify "I don't know". It usually means "I have interests, but I'm not dead set on a particular field". Doesn't mean they are going through this process without direction.