Neurosurgery Rankings

[Ferris]

Does anyone know which NS programs are top-tier in terms of academics. I make this distinction to avoid a US News listing which I feel to be sub-par.

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[Voxel]

I hear Uinveristy of Virginia is top notch. This is from someone applying to neurosurgery this year. I'm sure there are some websites with rankings out there. Duke and UPenn usually have residency ratings for each specialty.

 

[lipoyl]

The elite programs nationally are Univ. of Virginia (John Jane, Chair) and University of Washington (Dick Wynn). Barrows Neurological Institute is also considered by many to be at this level, though it's not quite as academic.

The next tier of programs are the MGH's, U Florida, Hopkin's, UCSF's of the world. For residency training, it's always a balance between academic rep. and clinical training...the best academic program's are not necessarily the best in clinical training.

 

[lipoyl]

The elite programs nationally are Univ. of Virginia (John Jane, Chair) and University of Washington (Dick Wynn). Barrows Neurological Institute is also considered by many to be at this level, though it's not quite as academic.

The next tier of programs are the MGH's, U Florida, Hopkin's, UCSF's of the world. For residency training, it's always a balance between academic rep. and clinical training...the best academic program's are not necessarily the best in clinical training.

 

[JJ4]

I was under the impression that Mayo Clinic had a very top program in Neurosurgery.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by JJ4:
•I was under the impression that Mayo Clinic had a very top program in Neurosurgery.•••

I have heard from my medical school's neurosurgery program director that Pitt was #1, but isn't it true that because the specialty is so small (and the attention is focused on one resident per year at most places) that training anywhere is excellent?

 

[droliver]

I agree. Pitt is certainly one of the 4-5 most competative NES residencies around. One of of my best friends is a PGY-4 in their program, he was #1 in our class with a 265 on step I. Talking to him, their experience is awesome but it is a VERY hard program with brutal schedules. Several years ago he felt the top programs included NYU, Pitt, OHSU, & Barrow's (AZ). I remember that for some reason he really liked UAB & LSU as well

 

[Ferris]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Mayo Clinic for NS training/treatment/etc ?

 

[JJ4]

Mayo Clinic is definitely one of the best Neurosurgery programs out there. They take two trainees I believe and train them heavily as I'm sure most NS programs do. However at Mayo you get the fortune of treating some of the most complicated referrals in the field. Many hospitals hold the trainees of Mayo NS in high regard post-residency --- or so I hear. Contrary to what many think, I get the feeling that it IS very academic and gives ample opportunity for research if you desire. Nonetheless the issues of the patient is first priority as compared with places like UCSF.

 

[Vasiley Zaitsev]

The top NS programs:

1) Uni of Wash
2) Uni of VA
3) Barrows
4) UF
5) Johns Hopkins

Remember, any NS program is gonna be awesome...it's just the way the specialty is. However, these are consistently ranked by many ppl I know in academia as the top 5. I have more info I could post on this subject, but I gotta run. Hope this makes ya happy.

owcc16

P.S. If you could, pls post recommended requirements for matching in a NS program..min. board scores, class rank (AOA probably), research, and things of that nature. Thanks!

 

[JJ4]

Thanks a lot owwc. Well I'm actually probably gonna go MD/PhD but I was thinking of Neurosurgery in the context of academic medicine. So I don't know too much in the area of required board scores and all. I guess the academic realm has a different set of rankings. The reason I asked the previous questions was I was considering Mayo for MD/PhD. But it would be nice to be at an institution that has good academic neurosurgery departments so I can sit in on grand rounds and the sort during my 8 years as a student to see good clinical correlates. But of course basic research is my TOP priority. So being that the general consensus considers Mayo as sub-par for NS --- what's the deal with the US News specialty rankings?

 

[Vasiley Zaitsev]

Originally posted by JJ4:
•Thanks a lot owwc. Well I'm actually probably gonna go MD/PhD but I was thinking of Neurosurgery in the context of academic medicine. So I don't know too much in the area of required board scores and all. I guess the academic realm has a different set of rankings. The reason I asked the previous questions was I was considering Mayo for MD/PhD. But it would be nice to be at an institution that has good academic neurosurgery departments so I can sit in on grand rounds and the sort during my 8 years as a student to see good clinical correlates. But of course basic research is my TOP priority. So being that the general consensus considers Mayo as sub-par for NS --- what's the deal with the US News specialty rankings?•••

Who knows what's up with US News & World Report. Maybe their taking kickbacks? ;-) Like it was said before, any NS residency is gonna kick butt. I'm still a pre-med (the shame!) but have experience in the NS field through research, shadowing, and contacts in the clinical and academic fields. Those are the top 5 in their opinions, but I'm sure that Mayo kicks ass.


owcc16

 

[droliver]

see my post in the other NES thread re. MAYO. In general, Mayo is not thought of as a great place to be resident in training for gen. surgery & the other subspecialties. The post-gradute fellowships ARE more respected (ie. Vascular, Endocrine, Oncology, Colo-rectal, Gyn-Onc, transplant, orthopedic joint fellowships, etc.) as their goal is to refine previous training experience which is often better elsewhere

 

[Fast Eddie]

Originally posted by owcc16:
•The top NS programs:

1) Uni of Wash
2) Uni of VA
3) Barrows
4) UF
5) Johns Hopkins

Remember, any NS program is gonna be awesome...it's just the way the specialty is. However, these are consistently ranked by many ppl I know in academia as the top 5. I have more info I could post on this subject, but I gotta run. Hope this makes ya happy.

owcc16

P.S. If you could, pls post recommended requirements for matching in a NS program..min. board scores, class rank (AOA probably), research, and things of that nature. Thanks!•••

owcc16,
First, what are you doing worrying about ranking neurosurgery programs? Go on vacation and relax a little before med school starts for you.

Second, know that neurosurgery is not all life-saving, nail-biting, next-to-impossible pituitary tumor removals and glamour. You know what problem that they see and work on the most (by far)? HNP - herniated nucleus pulposus. Translation: slipped disc. Slipped discs here, there and everywhere. Leg pain, back pain, same place (L3/L4, L4/L5, L5/S1) day in, day out. You get real good at the Hx/PE real quick, even as a 1st year. And the discectomy surgery is only effective at reducing pain 80% of the time. The neurosurgeons spend a great deal of bitch time complaining about how Ortho spine guys are impinging upon their roots (pun intended). Just want you to know what you are setting your heart on.

Third, that being said, I will tell you what the NS chair at my department has told me about getting into NS. You must near the top of your class (AOA) AND have at least two of the following: Board scores in the top 10% (>1.5 std dev above the mean), author on two published articles in a neurosurgery journal, or have the glowing recommendation of the department chair at the program you are trying to get into. Period. No pressure or anything. Good luck.

 

[droliver]

Actually, I always thought the non-match rate for neurosurgery is very low (am I wrong on this?). I got the impression that the there really not that many people that want to be neurosurgeons, but the core group of applicants is usually very bright with fierce competition @ the most prestigious programs with a rapid drop off in demand at the other tiers of programs.

 

[tennguy12345]

I would say that it is still very competitive. While the unmatch rates have decreased in the last few years, applicants have applied to more programs, attempting a shot-gun approach to matching. The level of competitiveness may cycle but it is still one of the more difficult residencies in which to match.

There probably are not that many people that want to be neurosurgeons, nor are there likely that many people that could match and then finish the incredible demands of the program.

I would not agree with the "top 5" list posted above. Some of those are good programs while others are not as good. I do not think that a ranking list exists. As far as getting into a program, I think the things posted above are good but rather than having either/or, it is probably best to load your CV with all of them.