Never thought I'd actually post this

[sloken]

but now my uneasiness is kicking in, especially after getting the thumbs-down last cycle combined with this being my virgin round with AADSAS.....(btw, this is another one of those "where should I apply/what are my chances" threads)

My info:
-international student
-just completed 4 full-time years as an Animal Bio Major at a Canadian university, will be returning next sept. to finish my Hkin minor and take some courses I've wanted to take the past few years
-Can.DAT: 18bio, 19 chem, 19 TS, 30RC, 22AA, 22 PAT
-GPA (we get %'s and letter grades for courses, but our average is given as a %, not on a 4.0 scale...these are the conversions according to my transcript)
cGPA: 80.1%/A-/3.7 sciGPA: 80.0%/A-/3.7 BCP: 78.3%/B+/3.3?->as in AADSAS' info book
-EC's/Awards:
Elite intramural Basketball 4yrs
dodgeball (haha yep!) 1 yr
volunteer/youth worker for friday night special needs youth program
intramural basketball ref
special needs daycamp leader (2 summers)
promoted to (and currently hired as) a summertime Inclusion Support Worker at said daycamps
post-secondary liason/mentor to local high school students on college life
predental society vice president
~50 hrs shadowing so far, including some time at an OMFS
Dean's List for 3 of the last 4 years
coming out of high school:
GG's Academic Medal, Integrity and Strength of Character awards + many other scholarships
10 years of classical piano training

My list of schools:
-BU
-Case
-Columbia
-Harvard
-Indiana
-Maryland
-NYU
-Pacific
-Penn
-Pitt
-Temple
-Tufts
(There's a couple others I wouldve liked to apply to, but couldnt due to a D in OrgChem and my school's policy on not being allowed to retake a class that you've passed).

I think that covers everything. I've been reading posts like these for quite some time and while I do think I have decent stats, getting accepted (let alone an interview), just seems too good to be true for me. I got zero interviews last year from the 5 canadian schools I applied to, with virtually the same stats (minus a few shadowing hours, the integration job, and predent VP position)

Any and all advice is appreciated. Good luck everyone!!!

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[Dan3223]

You should retake the organic at another university.... most schools wont take the D.

 

[ummjoey]

i agree with Dan3223 on the ochem thing.

can you post all your dat scores? i think you are missing ochem, qr, and carving? a really low score in one section might have a big effect on your application.

you probably know this, since it is in every thread, but apply early and smart.

 

[sloken]

Those are all of my DAT scores; the canDAT doesnt have QR or Ochem, and I left out carving b/c it's not looked at (I got a pisspoor 15, just for the record).

As far as OChem goes, my current housing and (lack-of) car situation prevents me from taking it again at another university....and the prospect of commuting 4 hours 4 times a week to a diff uni while taking 4 classes at my current one doesn't seem too appetizing too me. I know it's a fairly ubiquitous prereq...but I'm hoping that the fact that the class average was a C- (I finished juuust below the average) will help buffer the negative impact. That info on the class average was printed on my transcript...but who knows if school's actually get printouts of that. Arg.

 

[Dan3223]

Maybe try and find an online course?

 

[Sephisabin]

When you say your school doesn't let you retake classes that you passed, does that mean it won't even let you sign up for it? My school had a policy like that, but it wasn't all black and white... It turns out you were allowed to retake a class that you passed, but the new grade would not be calculated into your GPA. It would still show up on your transcript though... if that works at your school, you may be able to retake it. Otherwise, you may need to talk to the head of the department.. they can usually bend the rules, and if they can't, they'll tell you who can... SOMEONE at your school has the ability to let you retake that class... find them! haha

 

[tiny]

take ochem through correspondence with athabasca university....... well worth 3 months of work... you have to either do a 3 day lab session in edmonton, or arrange to do one through another school

 

[sloken]

so you think that the D in Ochem will truly be holding me back? Hmmm.
Also, any suggestions on the list of schools?

 

[Dan3223]

so you think that the D in Ochem will truly be holding me back? Hmmm.

Almost all the schools REQUIRE a passing grade in Organic... and a D is not considered passing at most schools. You will have to take it again and get a C or better.

When you say your school doesn't let you retake classes that you passed, does that mean it won't even let you sign up for it? My school had a policy like that, but it wasn't all black and white... It turns out you were allowed to retake a class that you passed, but the new grade would not be calculated into your GPA. It would still show up on your transcript though... if that works at your school, you may be able to retake it. Otherwise, you may need to talk to the head of the department.. they can usually bend the rules, and if they can't, they'll tell you who can... SOMEONE at your school has the ability to let you retake that class... find them! haha

This is great advice.

 

[doc3232]

so you think that the D in Ochem will truly be holding me back? Hmmm.
Also, any suggestions on the list of schools?

IMO it might stop you from getting into D-school

 

[sloken]

to sephisabin: I just talked with the Senior Undergraduate Academic Director/Advisor for the Chemistry department at my school, and got a stern "No." when I asked about retaking the course. Apparently he's lobbied for it for the last half decade but the Senate at my school won't allow it. If he hasn't been able to swing their decision, I doubt I'll be able to...so there goes that option.

I've called schools some schools like Pacific and Boston and have been told that a D is not looked highly upon (duh!), but may be considered. Indy told me they'll take it.

 

[trixie2126]

.

 

[reapply2007]

IMO you should retake organic either at a community college, another college, another university, on-line, or correspondence. This will make some additional schools available to you and make your application better overall. This assumes that you will do better the second time. It may also help your application to take the US DAT.

 

[Sephisabin]

That sucks man... You definitely should find a way to retake that class, even if it is online or at another college. Ochem is a prereq at every school and they all say that you have to pass it with a C/C- or better. They may be willing to bend the rules a bit for international applicants, but you'd really be better off if you found a way to retake it.

 

[sloken]

if i somehow find a way to retake it, how do i let schools know this? i wouldnt be able to retake it till september, and they'll have my transcripts with the D on it well before then

 

[Sephisabin]

When you're inputting grades, there is a section for "planned sessions" where you put the courses you're planning to take. It'll ask you to say which school you're taking it at, but if you're not sure which school, just write down your current one... They don't hold you to your planned sessions so you can still take it at another school, but that way at least you let them know that you have the intention of retaking it.

 

[levesque2177]

The reason you didn't get any interviews from Canadian dental schools is because, not only are their med/dent school admissions standards ridiculously competitive ( i think the average gpa to get into med or dent school in canada is usually around 3.8~3.9) due to lack of schools compared to the number of applicants, but also because Canadian schools don't accept international students. Canadian universities (undergrad, grad, professional schools) are all public and if you go on their websites for their dental/med schools, they usually tell you that they only accept Canadian citizens or permanent residents of Canada. they probably didn't even look at your application after finding out that you're on a student visa. That said, I'm not sure if you got your % to gpa conversions correct, but if you did, then you are a pretty competitive applicant for US private dental schools... except for the D in ochem of course. but that can be easily fixed by retaking it and hopefully getting a better grade. if you really really want to become a dentist, then i'm sure you'll find a way (if you already haven't). best of luck!

 

[Contach]

even still.. Canadian Dental school's cut offs just to get an interview is usually mid-80's. You need to bring up your GPA to have a good chance at canadian schools. However, the rest of your application looks very good and thus I would suggest applying to American Schools like you are. You will have a good chance at Americans this time around. I would suggest applying to some schools that are lower calibre just incase.

 

[doc toothache]

-international student

-Can.DAT: 18bio, 19 chem, 19 TS, 30RC, 22AA, 22 PAT
-GPA (we get %'s and letter grades for courses, but our average is given as a %, not on a 4.0 scale...these are the conversions according to my transcript)
cGPA: 80.1%/A-/3.7 sciGPA: 80.0%/A-/3.7 BCP: 78.3%/B+/3.3?->as in AADSAS' info book

My list of schools:
-BU-Case-Columbia-Harvard-Indiana-Maryland-NYU-Pacific-Penn-Pitt-Temple-Tufts

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=527533

 

[AlcoHulk]

I think sloken means he is an international student from Canada. Good to see fellow Canadians on here BTW.

Anyways sloken, I am surprised you didn't get any interviews in Canada. I know why you didn't get interviews if you applied to any schools West of Ontario. I think your cDAT scores are too low for UT and UWO, since the average AA is around 21. I remember reading your DAT scores on premed101.com and thinking "wow this guy got 30 on RC, he's sure to get an interview somewhere."

However, it is good to rethink your situation. A 3.3 is nowhere near competitive in Canada, and they don't look at your extracurriculars or awards either. The only school that looks at that stuff is Dalhousie, but they also count carving.

If you were to apply to American Universities this cycle, I am confident you will get multiple interviews and a few acceptances. Also, if you still have hope for Canadian schools I suggest reapplying and retaking the cDAT to try to bring all of those scores to 21 across (even carving, however unfair it is.) Good luck!

 

[vert]

I think your cDAT scores are too low for UT and UWO, since the average AA is around 21.

The OP's AA is 22 and their PAT is also 22.

As far as the Ontario schools go, with the 30 in RC (congrats! ), they clearly meet the RC cutoff for UWO, after which point UWO will only look at the AA score. A 22 is definitely very competitive!!! For UofT, who looks at AA and PAT, they are again quite a competitive candidate. Unfortunately I think it is your GPA that is holding you back - at least for Canadian schools.

The system in Canada is far from the greatest and a lot of deserving people don't get in every year. However I think you have an excellent shot at schools in the US and I wish you the best of luck!

 

[dental88]

Do you guys think doing Masters in some type of biology will be ok instead of retaking one semester of Ochem in which I got a D in?

Also, will doing well in an upper year course like biochem that required Ochem be ok instead of taking Ochem again?

Please help!

 

[vector A]

Hey guys, I'm in sort of the same boat as the OP.
- Canadian
- Started off my first year (really) badly and got a D+ in General Chem I.
- Just finished my 3rd year and I'm on track to graduating with an A- cGPA (3.7?)
- My university also has the policy where you can't take a course once you've taken the next level (i.e. I already took O Chem - for which gen chem was a prereq- and O Chem II.)

Will that D+ in gen chem really set me back? Should I be looking to take it again? I haven't taken my second chem requirement yet...I'm planning on taking inorganic chem in September. Will doing really well in that course help to negate that D+ ??

 

[Contach]

I know it's a fairly ubiquitous prereq...but I'm hoping that the fact that the class average was a C- (I finished juuust below the average) will help buffer the negative impact. That info on the class average was printed on my transcript...but who knows if school's actually get printouts of that. Arg.

Very few american schools ask for your official transcript. I think the ones taht did (pre-interview) were: Harvard, Detroit Mercy and UCLA - of the ones I applied to. What the rest of the schools will see is what you punch into AADSAS, and there will be NO room to punch in what the class average was - sorry.

I'm also from Vancouver, and actually, this is the reason why I chose not to go to UBC (and U of T for that matter) and went to a different Ontario school =\.

 

[Contach]

I think sloken means he is an international student from Canada. Good to see fellow Canadians on here BTW.

Anyways sloken, I am surprised you didn't get any interviews in Canada. I know why you didn't get interviews if you applied to any schools West of Ontario. I think your cDAT scores are too low for UT and UWO, since the average AA is around 21. I remember reading your DAT scores on premed101.com and thinking "wow this guy got 30 on RC, he's sure to get an interview somewhere."

However, it is good to rethink your situation. A 3.3 is nowhere near competitive in Canada, and they don't look at your extracurriculars or awards either. The only school that looks at that stuff is Dalhousie, but they also count carving.

If you were to apply to American Universities this cycle, I am confident you will get multiple interviews and a few acceptances. Also, if you still have hope for Canadian schools I suggest reapplying and retaking the cDAT to try to bring all of those scores to 21 across (even carving, however unfair it is.) Good luck!

How are you surprised that he didn't get interviews to Canadian schools. His reported GPA on AADSAS is 3.5.. No canadian school is going to interview someone with a 3.5, most of them require a MINIMUM of 3.7 for you to even apply, and being competitive is a whole nother ball game.

DAT scores aren't really as big of a deal in Canadian schools.

I wouldn't recommend reapplying to Canadian schools, with a 3.5 your efforts will go unrewarded.

I have positive feelings about you getting into some American schools. Apply early... like NOW!!! and then start saving money and earning money so you can figure out how to pay for tuition.. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't go back to school, instead i'd do something fun. Going back won't help you much. I think you'll get into US schools as you stand if you apply early!

edit: wow. i just noticed i posted into this thread a few days ago.. lol

 

[Contach]

However, it is good to rethink your situation. A 3.3 is nowhere near competitive in Canada, and they don't look at your extracurriculars or awards either. The only school that looks at that stuff is Dalhousie, but they also count carving.

That's not true. UBC also looks at extracurriculars and reference letters and wahtnot. I don't know the situation with other canadian schools.

Alcohulk: what school are u attending in the fall?

 

[Cleric7x9]

could you please explain how 80.1% gets converted to a 3.7?

unless your weights are different, or i am missing something, an 80.1% converts to around a 3.0

 

[Mohrisbetr]

so you think that the D in Ochem will truly be holding me back? Hmmm.

I thought you had to have C or better in all pre reqs? And orgo is always a prereq as far as I know.

Unless an exception was made, I would think a D in orgo would mean they can't really consider you.

 

[sloken]

I haven't been on SDN in around 5 months, but just an update: got into NYU (and was told i didn't have to retake OChem for full acceptance, but it was "recommended"), Case, Indy, and never heard back from Maryland.

Regardless, I'm attending UBC this fall.