New and wondering...........

[shellbell]

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New to this forum and had a few questions.

1. Where can I get a list of Dental Schools?

2. What are the average scores for the DAT?

I am just checking out options for what I want to BE when I grow up. lol Being 32 now you think I would know. I am a RDA and have assisted in General, Perio, Ortho.

I was thinking about Hygiene but looking into other options.

Good Luck to all of you

Thank you
Michelle

 

[Dentalist]

Michelle,

Here is a link for list of DDS/DMD programs in US.

http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/programs/search_ddsdmd_us.asp

Welcome to SDN!

Dentalist

 

[shellbell]

Thank you so much for the fast reply. I will check out the site.

Again thanks
Michelle

 

[ItsGavinC]

Michelle,

The average DAT scores are still listed on the ADA website as being a 17. That specific page, however, hasn't been updated since I looked at it first in 2000.

I would say the averages now are close to 19, probably at the ~18.6 region (which rounds up to 19).

A score of an 18 with a strong GPA is a great score for admittance.

To be more sure of addmittance (or with a sub-par GPA), shoot for the "vision" number of 20/20. That is, 20 on the academic portion and 20 on the PAT.

 

[vishal_k32801]

Here are general numbers:

http://lifesci.rutgers.edu/~hpo/dstats.htm

 

[arns51]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Michelle,

The average DAT scores are still listed on the ADA website as being a 17. That specific page, however, hasn't been updated since I looked at it first in 2000.

I would say the averages now are close to 19, probably at the ~18.6 region (which rounds up to 19).

A score of an 18 with a strong GPA is a great score for admittance.

To be more sure of addmittance (or with a sub-par GPA), shoot for the "vision" number of 20/20. That is, 20 on the academic portion and 20 on the PAT.

I know this has been discussed a ridiculous amount recently. But I would say the average at most is an 18. The average for matriculants has been increasing and will continue to increase as the number of people applying increase. However, I see no good reason that the overall average is going to increase by 2 full points since 2000 (as the number of applicants increase the average number of people taking the DAT without studying and bombing it will also increase in my opinion). And of course, I could easily be wrong.

And Gavin, simply trying to follow your logic, NOT trying to start an argument. You claim that an 18 is a below average DAT, but that an 18 and a strong GPA is great for admittance. But, you have previously mentioned an average GPA/below average GPA and anything less than a 20 is application suicide. This just doesnt make sense to me, what justification do you have for your views?

 

[flong]

Well, i assume that he is part of the application process at Arizona and I bet he has seen some of the scores that are recently being sent over their. Now, taking the fact that Arizona may not have the highest scores for the DAT in the nation, he is assuming that since scores are this high there, just imagine how high they can be at other schools who have year after year scored higher academically on the DAT.

Stop me if I'm wrong Gavin

 

[arns51]

Yes, but he is PROBABLY (again, im not sure) only seeing the scores for people that are being interviewed, since he is helping with interviews. Which does not reflect on the average. So Im sure he can give us a decent idea of the average DAT of somebody interviewing/matriculation at Arizona, but not on the overall national average.

Also, apiphistis (sp?) is working on the admissions committee and has painted a completely opposite picture, and has said he has seen many DAT's that would be laughed at on SDN as he put it.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by arns51


Also, apiphistis (sp?) is working on the admissions committee and has painted a completely opposite picture, and has said he has seen many DAT's that would be laughed at on SDN as he put it.

Bill's school is a public school, and attracts an entirely different caliber of applicants.

Arizona will have roughly 3 times as many applicants this year as Indiana (assuming Indiana has 1,000 applicants this year).


A DAT score of 18 IS below average for the national matriculants.

A DAT score of 18 with a SOLID GPA will suffice, depending on the schools one applies to.

A piss-poor GPA needs a 20 to really be competitive. There is more than just scoring a "20" to this logic. The logic is that a poor GPA equates to trouble during coursework, and a high DAT score shows adcoms that you CAN handle the rigors of dental school academics. At least that is what it is supposed to show them, or what they think it shows them. I'm completely against standardized testing, but I suppose there has to be some sort of benchmark.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by arns51
However, I see no good reason that the overall average is going to increase by 2 full points since 2000 (as the number of applicants increase the average number of people taking the DAT without studying and bombing it will also increase in my opinion). And of course, I could easily be wrong.

Those number reported by the ADA are from the 1999 application cycle. I don't find it at all illogical that the numbers could rise by 2 points (actually I said 1.6 points) in 5 years. I don't think an increase like that (given the popularity of dental school now) would surprise anybody.

 

[arns51]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
A piss-poor GPA needs a 20 to really be competitive. There is more than just scoring a "20" to this logic. The logic is that a poor GPA equates to trouble during coursework, and a high DAT score shows adcoms that you CAN handle the rigors of dental school academics. At least that is what it is supposed to show them, or what they think it shows them. I'm completely against standardized testing, but I suppose there has to be some sort of benchmark.

I understand that, and agree. I just dont agree with the average gpa and less than a 20 ruins your application. So from what you have been saying, you feel that gpa is more important than DAT? Im not sure if you have said that but that is how it seems.

I still really have no idea which is truly more important, I would hope that gpa is.

 

[arns51]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Those number reported by the ADA are from the 1999 application cycle. I don't find it at all illogical that the numbers could rise by 2 points (actually I said 1.6 points) in 5 years. I don't think an increase like that (given the popularity of dental school now) would surprise anybody.

I guess I could look for the links, but really dont feel like it. Assuming the popularity can be gauged by total number of applicants, there really hasnt been a substantial increase except in the last year or so has there?

And in the 70s when there really and truly was an explosion in the popularity of dentistry, im sure that the average matriculant gpa/DAT increased, but did the overall averages increase as well????? I dont really see why they would increase all the much, definetly not 2 full points, or 1.5 in a fairly short period.

Just my thoughts.

 

[arns51]

Wow, I really hope I just get in on Dec. 1st. Then I can quit wondering and conjecturing about average gpa's/DAT/s etc to get an idea of how competitive I am.

Hopefully 2 weeks and all I will have to do is post about stuff I really know is fact!

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by arns51
This just doesnt make sense to me, what justification do you have for your views?

To provide better information, let's NOT talk about averages of test-takers, but rather averages of matriculants. I think that makes a bit more sense, because those who take the DAT desire to be matriculants, not just test-takers.

Here is some data about matriculants and DAT averages. And obviously, I'm not the King on this subject, but I do have some evidence that supports my views.

1. That website that everybody likes to throw around is from the 2002 school year (those that applied in 2001). Therefore, the data is two years old. That site lists the average DAT academic score for matriculants as being 18.8 (HIGHER than the average I suggested, although my average was for test-takers, NOT matriculants).

2. My undergrad, easily the top pre-dental school in the nation in terms of applicants vs. acceptance ratio lists similar data. Last year my school had 172 students apply to dental school, and 162 were accepted (for a 94% acceptance rate). Fairly good data to look at. Those students who WERE accepted had an average DAT score of 20.5. Those students who were NOT accepted, had an average DAT score of 18.0

One might look at this and think it obvious that those who were NOT accepted must have had shoddy GPAs. The interesting point is that they had excellent overall GPAs, but low Science GPAs:

Science GPA / Overall GPA
3.31 / 3.50 Accepted to at least one school
2.93 / 3.50 Not accepted to ANY schools

So it appears that the science GPA weighs more heavily than we perhaps thought possible.

3. Another interesting note is that our applicants to Arizona this year will have lower DAT scores than most applicants (I've seen ranges from 17-26), but their science GPAs are by and large absolutely remarkable. The average science GPA of a random group of 12 interviewees from last week was a 3.67.

So what can we say from all this crap and drivell I've posted? Dunno, but I'll try:
1) The average matriculant DAT score was an 18.8 in 2001. Certainly it is not unfathomable that the average matriculant score now would be a 19.

2) Apparently, the science GPA is a huge factor in dental school admissions. Bigger than I had ever supposed.

3) I'm on Thanksgiving break and shouldn't be posting on SDN. 😀

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by arns51
Wow, I really hope I just get in on Dec. 1st. Then I can quit wondering and conjecturing about average gpa's/DAT/s etc to get an idea of how competitive I am.

Hopefully 2 weeks and all I will have to do is post about stuff I really know is fact!

Don't sweat it, you'll get in!

 

[ItsGavinC]

And finally... this horse is dead. 😛

And to the OP: Shellbell, don't let my post (or anyone else's) discourage you in any way.

I'm full of crap and everybody points it out constantly.

Like I've said, Bill is my level-headed counterpart.

 

[arns51]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
1) The average matriculant DAT score was an 18.8 in 2001. Certainly it is not unfathomable that the average matriculant score now would be a 19.

Gavin, great post, enjoy your thanksgiving break, stay away from SDN, and thanks for the encouragement.

One last thing though, completely agree that the average matriculant DAT will be a 19 or higher this year. I just think that if the average matriculant gpa is 19 the total average would have to be lower than 18.5. Just my opinion though, thanks for the posts.

 

[flong]

In my personal OPINION, I can see that average marticular AA to be around 20 while the PAT around 18 or 19.

 

[ShawnOne]

Originally posted by flong
In my personal OPINION, I can see that average marticular AA to be around 20 while the PAT around 18 or 19.

In my personal OPINION too, I see the above as EASILY true for california schools.

 

[flong]

hehe. Great quote you got there btw

 

[blankguy]

If the average for matriculant for AA is 20 then wouldn't somebody with lacklustre or weak grades have to get above that to make up for it? Then he or she would have to get 20+ not just 20 so 20/20 score would not be enough.

 

[shellbell]

Thanks for all the help! Sorry if I caused any problems with my questions.

Michelle

 

[aphistis]

Man, I disappear for a measly few hours for a day of class, and all this goes on while I'm away. I'm getting sluggish in my age or something 😀