New APMA DPM salary survey & comparision with other professions.

Started by cool_vkb
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Excellent post, great find. Great to see Podiatrists being rewarded for all the great work they do. 👍👍
 
Is that salary figure representative of all podiatrists (e.g., practice owners, associates, etc.), or just practice owners?
 
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HenryH said:
Is that salary figure representative of all podiatrists (e.g., practice owners, associates, etc.), or just practice owners?
Click to expand...

It seems as if it is wholly representative. It's no good to give stats to prospective students for just practice owners because many are partners or associates.

Owners of successful practices in Florida have the ability to make a lot more than 176K. Probably in a lot of areas in the country.
 
TUSP0diatricM said:
It seems as if it is wholly representative. It's no good to give stats to prospective students for just practice owners because many are partners or associates.

Owners of successful practices in Florida have the ability to make a lot more than 176K. Probably in a lot of areas in the country.
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Yep you are right. During one of our practice management meetings i was made aware of the fact that many DPMs are from the old age era (no residency or 12 months residency stuff aka minimum surgery,less procedures,etc). So whenever averages are taken they are a mixture of high income new docs + decent/belowaverage income old docs. So that 176K does not truly represent. And lets say even if it truly represents 176K then also its average income, which means 50% people make much more than that 🙂
 
All of these figures are close to what Forbes listed back in 2006 as the mean salary for these professions (FT, PT, owners, etc) except podiatry. Forbes reported the mean pod salary was 118k based on 800 person servey vs. 176k by APMA (does anyone see how many people were polled?)..an ~60k difference is large. I'm more inclined to believe Forbes, but have at it.
 
Sundarban1 said:
All of these figures are close to what Forbes listed back in 2006 as the mean salary for these professions (FT, PT, owners, etc) except podiatry. Forbes reported the mean pod salary was 118k based on 800 person servey vs. 176k by APMA (does anyone see how many people were polled?)..an ~60k difference is large. I'm more inclined to believe Forbes, but have at it.
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That's why I inquired as to the sampling population/methods used to calculate the $176k figure. Didn't the APMA come out with some figure that reported that during 2006, the average income for a practice owner was $150k? And wasn't that number ~130k for their 2004 survey? Where did $176k come from (not that I'm complaining!)?
 
Related comment / question:

Has anyone come across a breakdown of of Pods across the workforce and their associated salaries?
Example
%75 Pods work as partner in 3<pod clinic, mean income XX,XXX
%15 Pods work as owner of clinic, mean income XXX,XXX
%10 Pods work in hospital, mean income XXX,XXX

I've seen similar breakdowns for DOs, Pharm, MDs and PAs.... There has to be something like this floating for Pods... perhaps the actual data collected by the APMA to derive their figures?
 
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The 50% "thing" is the median. The median for podiatrists, according to the Department of Labour, is $108.XXX. 50% of pods make above $108K, 50% make below it.

Averages are weighted. If there are more pods making a gazillion dollars, our averages will be higher to represent more of those pods.

AND...my debt load will be a significant amount more than 110K. Try...umm...189K because that's the max. 😀
 
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4thelonghaul said:
Related comment / question:

Has anyone come across a breakdown of of Pods across the workforce and their associated salaries?
Example
%75 Pods work as partner in 3<pod clinic, mean income XX,XXX
%15 Pods work as owner of clinic, mean income XXX,XXX
%10 Pods work in hospital, mean income XXX,XXX

I've seen similar breakdowns for DOs, Pharm, MDs and PAs.... There has to be something like this floating for Pods... perhaps the actual data collected by the APMA to derive their figures?
Click to expand...

yes its on APMA's young member survey. they did a very beautiful breakdown of data like practice owners, age groups, parttime-fulltime,3yr residency vs 2yr residnecy,etc

I dont know what are the copyright laws or else i would have definetly posted it here.

Next year in school you will get your own userID-password for apma website and you will have access to all the current events happening arnd our profession.🙂
 
PJAG said:
I'm expecting my debt to be alot more than 110k as well.....that estimate seems questionable.
Click to expand...

They're probably just considering debt that can be directly attributed to tuition costs, which run ~$25-27k/year at most schools.
 
cool_vkb said:
yes its on APMA's young member survey. they did a very beautiful breakdown of data like practice owners, age groups, parttime-fulltime,3yr residency vs 2yr residnecy,etc

I dont know what are the copyright laws or else i would have definetly posted it here.

Next year in school you will get your own userID-password for apma website and you will have access to all the current events happening arnd our profession.🙂
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone will sue you if you post a few roundabout statistics...
 
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HenryH said:
They're probably just considering debt that can be directly attributed to tuition costs, which run ~$25-27k/year at most schools.
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I would argue that $110K is the amount reported by the podiatrists taking part in the poll, not of debt load after graduation.

You cannot attend pod school without living expenses. Unless your wealthy or have other means of support, many students use staffords to cover living expenses. Even with a modest budget, your loan debt is going to end up a lot more than $110k.

Mine is maxed with personal accounts AND a scholarship.
 
It just depends on everyones personal situation. for example, i got a full ride in undergrad and my parents had saved some money up for my college expenses. thus, i expect to graduate with around 80,000 in loans. maybe less. i really only need loans for 2 years of school.
 
DPMstudent said:
It just depends on everyones personal situation. for example, i got a full ride in undergrad and my parents had saved some money up for my college expenses. thus, i expect to graduate with around 80,000 in loans. maybe less. i really only need loans for 2 years of school.
Click to expand...

Can I adopt your parents?
 
DPMstudent said:
my parents had saved some money up for my college expenses. .
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I thought it just happens in TV advertisements.The scene usually is : mom and dad are drinking coffee and suddenly see their 1yr old kid taking his first steps and they open a savings account in his name which finances his college education🙂 , then fastforward to 20yrs and they are now old and their son is graduating. and suddenly the screen goes blank and a banner appears "XYZ Financial services.... have you met life today?" .lol!
 
cool_vkb said:
Yeah even i was not sure about it. 110K😱 its possible if we eat ramen noodles for the next 4yrs 🙂
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I'm going to be eating Ramen for a while. After a few weeks, you can whip up Ramen EVERYTHING.

Ramen Pasta.
Ramen Lasagna.
Ramen Cereal.
Ramen Salad.
 
Cool_vkb is that link or document in the members section of apma? I did some searching around the surveys but didn't find the salary by geo or specialty type. Interested in seeing this to understand the progression that might occur for a graduate.. such as mean for member of a clinic vs owner...
 
4thelonghaul said:
Cool_vkb is that link or document in the members section of apma? I did some searching around the surveys but didn't find the salary by geo or specialty type. Interested in seeing this to understand the progression that might occur for a graduate.. such as mean for member of a clinic vs owner...
Click to expand...

yep its in the member's area. I think it was released in 2007 july or june edition of JAPMA. It was also discussed in this forum during those days.
 
Would someone mind saving some of the statistics in a .doc file (or whatever format) and uploading it?
 
That would be .... awesome! same here.. if not please PM me if you'd email.. (henry if i get it i will pass it on to you...)
 
4thelonghaul said:
That would be .... awesome! same here.. if not please PM me if you'd email.. (henry if i get it i will pass it on to you...)
Click to expand...

...Can I be passed to as well? 😀

Anyway, I just happened to come across Salary.com, and it reports that the mean for pods is $149k, which is significantly different from the mean that I posted earlier.

What's the dealy-yo?

:horns:
 
When looking up my area on salary.com I get a range of 133k-239k for the middle 50%. It really varies and is hard to pinpoint
 
NataM said:
When looking up my area on salary.com I get a range of 133k-239k for the middle 50%. It really varies and is hard to pinpoint
Click to expand...

I'm sure it will vary in other areas as well and reason for that lies in the fact that not every podiatrist has the same practice and O.R. time. The more surgically trained ones tend to do better (financially) on average because they have more procedures and options to offer for their patients. I remember someone posting a link a while back that compared surgical versus non-surgical podiatrist salary and the figures certainly favored the surgical ones.
 
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PMSIII said:
I'm sure it will vary in other areas as well and reason for that lies in the fact that not every podiatrist has the same practice and O.R. time. The more surgically trained ones tend to do better (financially) on average because they have more procedures and options to offer for their patients. I remember someone posting a link a while back that compared surgical versus non-surgical podiatrist salary and the figures certainly favored the surgical ones.
Click to expand...

You might be referring to this one:

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_midlevel_compensation_survey.htm

It's surprising to note, however, that in the eastern US, surgical podiatrists actually tend to earn a bit less than medical podiatrists...
 
iceman69 said:
That's why the wizard told the man, " Go west my friend"...besides who really wants to live on the east coast?
Click to expand...

I have actually never traveled further west than Alabama; lived on the state line between Georgia and Alabama my whole life.
 
Just checking in to see if anyone had managed to log-in to the APMA website and download that survey...
 
Henry i'm really wanting the same thing to happen~
If anyone with access is reading - help us out 😉
 
TUSP0diatricM said:
:barf: Why is the chart titled "Something-Mid-Levels?"
(
Click to expand...

because we (MD/DO) know more about the foot, of course... 😉

Good discussion by the way. Like some posters stated, salary might definitely vary, like in medicine, the coasts tend to suck but midwest/south can easily see double those numbers.
 
Path or bust said:
because we (MD/DO) know more about the foot, of course... 😉

Good discussion by the way. Like some posters stated, salary might definitely vary, like in medicine, the coasts tend to suck but midwest/south can easily see double those numbers.
Click to expand...

It makes sense, many people wanna live on the coast. I don't think I could live in the midwest, the winters suck and I need the ocean!
 
JEWmongous said:
It makes sense, many people wanna live on the coast. I don't think I could live in the midwest, the winters suck and I need the ocean!
Click to expand...

Hey, aren't you coming to Scholl in the fall? Better get used to those sucky winters 🙂

Oregon is a great state, I wouldn't mind ending up there! 👍
 
Trust me, the north coast/third coast is relatively "unsettled" compared to the east and west coasts for a reason. The weather along the great lakes sucks about 8/9 months out of the years. BTW Chicago has fairly nice winters compared to the other parts in the midwest...

Oregon would be a sweet place to be with mountains and the ocean all nearby.
 
iceman69 said:
Trust me, the north coast/third coast is relatively "unsettled" compared to the east and west coasts for a reason. The weather along the great lakes sucks about 8/9 months out of the years. BTW Chicago has fairly nice winters compared to the other parts in the midwest...

Oregon would be a sweet place to be with mountains and the ocean all nearby.
Click to expand...
lol, cleveland must have great winters then comparatively
 
In my opinion, I would have to say that the winters in cleveland are whimpy. Then again, you probably didn't have school cancled due to large snow fall, or extremely low temperatures coupled with high winds...
 
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So these statistics seem very promising for the future of podiatry but it seems to contradict the experience i just had today at a podiatrists office I went to shadow. His patient there told me 2 of her nephews left podiatry because they could not make a living from it. She told me to be careful and to seriously think about this profession.

Another question I had was that if according to the statistics pod's seem to be making more than a regular physician then why don't more people go into podiatry?
 
msa786 said:
His patient there told me 2 of her nephews left podiatry because they could not make a living from it. She told me to be careful and to seriously think about this profession...
Click to expand...

Some random patient in a pod's office, that seems totally hokey to me! :laugh::laugh::laugh: I've shadowed and talked to dozens of podiatrists, and their testimonials have been that of success, happiness, and fulfillment with the profession. I definitely wouldn't base my future plans on what some random woman says during a doc's appointment. Lol!
 
TheBee said:
Some random patient in a pod's office, that seems totally hokey to me! :laugh::laugh::laugh: I've shadowed and talked to dozens of podiatrists, and their testimonials have been that of success, happiness, and fulfillment with the profession. I definitely wouldn't base my future plans on what some random woman says during a doc's appointment. Lol!
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm willing to bet her 2 nephews didn't make it too far in the profession. (Perhaps students who got booted from school)
 
msa786 said:
... His patient there told me 2 of her nephews left podiatry because they could not make a living from it. She told me to be careful and to seriously think about this profession...
Click to expand...

..said the woman seeing a podiatrist??

I think she meant pediatrics..honest mistake.
 
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