New article says ADHD criteria focuses too much on attention/hyperactivity

Started by psydocc
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psydocc

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Here is a recent article published in the esteemed Irish Journal of Psychology concluding that the DSM ADHD definition is wrong and that diagnostic/screening criteria should be broadened to include a laundry list of possible adulthood issues. In other words, how dare a condition called Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder focus so much on attention deficit and hyperactivity!

In all seriousness, this has to be one of the weakest articles I've ever read. I had to double-check that it wasn't published on April 1st and that it wasn't published in some sort of satirical magazine. All they did was interview 11 adult ADHD patients with some interviews being as short as 26 minutes long and then felt they had enough info to start speaking about ADHD as a whole based on this data. I view this as a professional level of misinformation by the authors. This level of quality is what I would expect to find on the poster board of a 13 year old kid with ADHD that waited until the last minute to come up with a research project for his freshman psychology class. The real issue is that Tiktokers (and certain therapists/counselors) will point towards "scientific" papers like this to assert that people's insomnia, temper tantrums, and bad decision-making are evidence of "untreated ADHD." This then empowers people with these issues to find a psychiatrist and demand an amphetamine prescription.

Curious to hear what others think.
 
An article in the "Irish Journal of Psychological Medicine" where 9 of the 11 authors are from Australia (mostly the University of Melbourne). Very international.

The real issue is that Tiktokers (and certain therapists/counselors) will point towards "scientific" papers like this to assert that people's insomnia, temper tantrums, and bad decision-making are evidence of "untreated ADHD."

Oh gosh they should put stimulants in the water!!!
 
I mean they're not completely off base with additional frequently co-morbid symptoms.
It's well known that kids with ADHD often struggle with sleep and emotional reactivity....that's not news but would also have to figure out what it would mean by adding to diagnostic criteria; people have debated adding excessive reactivity/behavioral outbursts as a manifestation of impulsivity and EF deficits for some time now.

I have no idea what they mean by "further three themes briefly mentioned in the DSM" and then listing 2 inattentive diagnostic CRITERIA lol (disorganization and forgetfullness).

Also love the talking out of both sides of their mouth:

"Limitations with the accuracy of the ASRS and the CAARS can be partially attributed to the recognised limitations of the DSM 5 in describing symptoms of adult ADHD.....First, DSM 5 ADHD symptoms are sometimes present in other clinical disorders, complicating identification of ADHD"

Righttt and all the extra stuff they list are also not present singularly in patients with ADHD so what's the point?

Anyway yes it's a garbage basically descriptive case series that you could also title:
"I grabbed 11 people with ADHD and asked them some questions, you won't believe what I found out!"
 
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Anyway yes it's a garbage basically descriptive case series that you could also title:
"I grabbed 11 people with ADHD and asked them some questions, you won't believe what I found out!"
It's pretty gross we are the point of that being considered reasonable peer-reviewed research. En****ification has been such an unpleasant experience in some many areas of life in the past decade, I was really hoping it would keep away from research...
 
And everyone there is lauding it as such an enlightening and eye opening study. It'd be depressing if it wasn't already typical

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The battle is lost. Doesn't matter. Patient comes in "I have ADHD" and that predetermined self diagnosis is difficult to budge. Throw a stone and they'll hit an ARNP or even a PCP somewhere who'll give them Adderall. Or a psychologist - not neuropsych fellowship trained - who is doing "testing" and gives them a validating diagnosis that is used as title of ownership for the end of time.

Thus I have more and more thoughts we should be like other counties, do away with FDA regulation of meds and let them all be self serve pharmacies. But then again... the supplement folk might for a lobby to argue against that.. would ruin their mystique.
 
The battle is lost. Doesn't matter. Patient comes in "I have ADHD" and that predetermined self diagnosis is difficult to budge. Throw a stone and they'll hit an ARNP or even a PCP somewhere who'll give them Adderall. Or a psychologist - not neuropsych fellowship trained - who is doing "testing" and gives them a validating diagnosis that is used as title of ownership for the end of time.

Thus I have more and more thoughts we should be like other counties, do away with FDA regulation of meds and let them all be self serve pharmacies. But then again... the supplement folk might for a lobby to argue against that.. would ruin their mystique.
Nah, the supplement folks would love it. They'd just put low doses of stimulants in everything and market it as a wonder supplement that helps with energy, focus, mood, motivation, and helps before workouts to OpTiMiZe GaInZ.
 
You can just refuse to prescribe stimulants. Or turn away all ADHD new patient inquiries. Lose money, keep your soul.

I think (hope!) that we are approaching a saturation point where momentum slowly stops and gradually, eventually, people look at the ADHD explosion the way we now look at the "every temper tantrum is bipolar" phenomenon.
 
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You can just refuse to prescribe stimulants. Or turn away all ADHD new patient inquiries. Lose money, keep your soul.

I think (hope!) that we are approaching a saturation point where momentum slowly stops and gradually, eventually, people look at the ADHD explosion the way we now look at the "every temper tantrum is bipolar" phenomenon.
I'm extremely doubtful of this. There's just more and more mounting evidence that dependence on technology and screen time is associated with creating ADHD-like symptoms (maybe even actual ADHD) and with society's ever growing dependence on technology as well as expectations from employers that employees be highly efficient and complete more and more work in the same or less time, I think we are only going to see this continue to grow.

I used to joke with my co-residents that based off modern music lyrics that society has a cluster B personality disorder. I think this is shifting or evolving into society has baseline "ADHD symptoms" so therefore everyone's got ADHD.
 
The battle is lost. Doesn't matter. Patient comes in "I have ADHD" and that predetermined self diagnosis is difficult to budge. Throw a stone and they'll hit an ARNP or even a PCP somewhere who'll give them Adderall. Or a psychologist - not neuropsych fellowship trained - who is doing "testing" and gives them a validating diagnosis that is used as title of ownership for the end of time.

Thus I have more and more thoughts we should be like other counties, do away with FDA regulation of meds and let them all be self serve pharmacies. But then again... the supplement folk might for a lobby to argue against that.. would ruin their mystique.

Seriously, there are several people at my husband's work with self diagnosed 'ADHD'*, and their reasoning for diagnosing themselves includes them finding it hard to stay on task sometimes because work is boring, and they'd rather be doing something else. Not one of them has any sort of symptoms across several areas, and not one of them has symptoms that are anywhere near disabling. There's only one person there who seems to have a genuine diagnosis dating back to childhood, the rest apparently talk in nothing but 'Tik Tok' diagnostic speech (aka 'baulderdash'), and 'treat' their 'ADHD' by buying stimulant medication off of diagnosed friends (which always seems to coincide with them needing to really be able to focus on a weekend). Oh and they're always keen to let people know they have ADHD, like they want a fricking medal for it. For someone with an actual diagnosis, stuff like this infuriating.

*A couple have managed to be diagnosed by utilising the dodgy 'pay 1500 bucks to fill out a form and do a 30 minute interview' ADHD telehealth clinics that have sprung up here. And again I say infuriating! :rage:
 
I'm finding this really difficult as well with my practice where the expectations of the employers are often outrageous. "Please stare at a screen for 12 hours while doing rote/tedious work and if you're not working until 2-3am then you don't have enough passion to work here." And then the patient thinks there's something wrong with them for being unable to focus that much. The occupational demands in this era are too cognitive, less physical, and more tedious for too long nowadays.

Yes, a stimulant will help them focus for longer, give them more energy, and deal with sleep deprivation better. No, it's not because of ADHD. Yes, it increases the likelihood of more money, more job security, and promotions. No wonder why it's so reinforcing.
 
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You can just refuse to prescribe stimulants. Or turn away all ADHD new patient inquiries. Lose money, keep your soul.

I think (hope!) that we are approaching a saturation point where momentum slowly stops and gradually, eventually, people look at the ADHD explosion the way we now look at the "every temper tantrum is bipolar" phenomenon.
Mostly the novel below is not a direct response to anyone on this thread, though this post did inspire me especially in regards to the bipolar disorder analogy.

I have seen plenty of adults who sought psychiatric treatment because they had convinced themselves they have ADHD when they didn't. I think of them in 2 categories
- Some had another diagnosable condition that caused symptoms that overlap with ADHD and you could see how they had honestly arrived at an erroneous diagnosis. Usually, if you can get enough buy in for the proper diagnosis and treatment plan, these people will thank you when they start feeling better.
- Others had fairly normative responses to overwhelming demands and were essentially seeking performance enhancing drugs, but didn't realize that's what they were doing. These patients seemed to respond well to psycho education, reassurance/normalization, and joint problem solving around the areas of overwhelm in their life. Sometimes I tell these patients that while I can't in good conscience prescribe them stimulants, they can probably find someone else who will disagree with my assessment, diagnose them with ADHD and prescribe them stimulants, if that is their goal. And the main reason I'm not prescribing them is that it is considered highly inappropriate in my profession to prescribe this scheduled drug without a clear indication, not because I necessarily think taking a stimulant would do more harm than good for them. This speech works with malingerers (quite rare in my experience) as well as the subset of the "honest mistake" people who still really do want a stimulant, thank you very much.

I have also seen plenty of adults who correctly self diagnosed with ADHD. Curiously though, I rarely encountered this last group prior to being diagnosed late in life myself. I wonder why...

Spoiler alert, it's because I was missing them before. Good thing I didn't treat them like malingerers, at least! Or annoying people not worth my time or attention to help. But I did miss making an appropriate diagnosis that could have helped them and I feel badly about it.

When I was a resident many of my attendings had this bias of "everyone thinks they have ADHD these days and they're wrong." The diagnostic process I underwent (structured clinical interview with a psychologist over 3 hour-long sessions, normally done in 2 but she just couldn't get me to shut up so it took us 3) helped me develop a much deeper understanding of what ADHD looks like in adults AND how to conduct a really good clinical interview assessing for ADHD. ADHD in effect got added to my differential when it hadn't really been there before. Since this experience, I have diagnosed people who had no idea they had it and had a really hard time accepting the diagnosis. I have diagnosed people who were so convinced they had it that their certainty would have pissed off many psychiatrists and put them at high risk of a psychiatrist subconsciously punishing them by denying the diagnosis. "How dare they! Who do they think they are?!" And yes, some of those people became aware of their lifelong ADHD traits because ADHD is the diagnosis du jour on tiktok--is that a crime?

I guess my point is, to expand on the analogy to rampant over-diagnosis of bipolar disorder, should we decline to evaluate people with emotional regulation problems which they mistakenly believe to be bipolar disorder, because it can be time consuming and emotionally draining to explain it's actually BPD? No. Should we not diagnose bipolar disorder in someone who genuinely seems to have it, because they have self diagnosed and that really annoys us? No. Should we make people jump through crazy hoops to receive a bipolar disorder diagnosis and start on effective treatment? No.

Some degree of caution about potential malingering is warranted since stimulants are a controlled substance here and do have a high potential for misuse. I wish we didn't have to be the gatekeepers for those seeking stimulants for recreational use or performance enhancement. I radically accept that we are.

But it's deeply disappointing to me that so many psychiatrists seem to be perfectly willing to sacrifice those people who have ADHD that was missed in childhood, essentially because of the inconvenience inherent to distinguishing them from others who want or think they need stimulants. Are difficult conversations not what we signed up for? I feel like this is what we signed up for.

People with ADHD, regardless of the age they were first diagnosed, stand to dramatically benefit from stimulant medications, which offer the largest effect size of anything we have in our armamentarium. How can we possibly justify screening these people out, denying them access to care, just to avoid being in a position of needing to have difficult conversations with some patients, or because the psychiatrist's ego can't tolerate running the risk of occasionally having someone successfully manipulate them. I find this stance quite bizarre and totally unconscionable. (I have also learned about myself that my "sensitivity to injustice" (AKA penchant for righteous indignation) is a common trait in people with ADHD, as is my overly detailed and parenthetical writing style.)

I used to routinely miss ADHD in adults who were not diagnosed as kids. (Granted, a big reason in my case was that I was using myself as the barometer for normal, not realizing how abnormal my struggles really were, and this cognitive error will not apply to most of you.). Now I don't think I do, not often anyway.

I worried for a while I was overdiagnosing it. I really don't think I am! I still see people who are convinced they have it and they don't, and I'm still able to have those conversations therapeutically. They can be draining conversations but more often than not they're rewarding and patients are grateful we figured out what was really going on. I don't pass the buck to some neuropsychologist (which I always thought was stupid) and I don't let my residents do so without a very good reason.

If anyone read this whole thing, thanks for listening to my PSA. And here's a special shout out to my PCP, who didn't make me jump through any hoops when I explained "I think I must have ADHD. I can't quite wrap my head around it fully yet, but apparently all my psychiatrist friends think I have it, and had just assumed all this time that I opted not to treat it. In reality it had literally never occurred to me that I had ADHD before a friend's offhand remark opened this conversation, but it could explain some things." And to the psychologist my PCP referred me to (at my request), who, because of my privilege as a psychiatrist, evaluated me AFTER I had started on life-changing medication, and who did a few sessions of ADHD-focused CBT with me which were almost as helpful as the medication, but which remain effective on days I forget to take my medication.
 
And everyone there is lauding it as such an enlightening and eye opening study. It'd be depressing if it wasn't already typical


You have to remember that subreddit isn't for actual scientists or people who do research. It's for laymen to read news article or just the headline of the study to confirm thier biases

You see it all the time when someone post about how weed or psylocybin is basically a panacea. Though any study that must cricizes them when will be scrutinized to hell from people who don't understand how research or statistics work
 
You have to remember that subreddit isn't for actual scientists or people who do research. It's for laymen to read news article or just the headline of the study to confirm thier biases

You see it all the time when someone post about how weed or psylocybin is basically a panacea. Though any study that must cricizes them when will be scrutinized to hell from people who don't understand how research or statistics work
Oh I’m aware. That’s why I said it WOULD be depressing if it wasn’t so typical of the general population.
 
It is worth emphasizing that stimulant medications show associations with positive clinical outcomes in the treatment of ADHD that other psychiatric medications can only dream of. In various observational and cohort studies, treatment of ADHD with stimulants reduces accidental injuries, traumatic brain injuries, substance abuse, educational underachievement, bone fractures, sexually transmitted infections, criminal activity, teenage pregnancy, and mortality.


So sounds like they're better than most of the other stuff we prescribe?
 

So sounds like they're better than most of the other stuff we prescribe?

In children, or those diagnosed as children. At least as far as I have found, the population wide studies showing these benefits are entirely or heavily skewed toward the diagnosed-in-childhood population. If there is evidence otherwise, I would be happy to see it. As the blog you cited points out, there is startlingly little overlap between those diagnosed in childhood vs adulthood. They are separate populations.

So I remain unconvinced that the high-end university students and white-collar professionals seeking stimulant treatment are the ones seeing reductions in "accidental injuries, traumatic brain injuries, substance abuse, educational underachievement, bone fractures, sexually transmitted infections, criminal activity, teenage pregnancy, and mortality."

There is an excellent comment (poster name "The Connected Mind") found on the blog you posted which I think is worth quoting in part here (bolded emphasis mine):

From the neuropsychology side, what I encounter much more often is a slightly different situation: many of us see a lot of individuals who are genuinely distressed and sincerely believe they have ADHD, but for whom there is strong objective evidence that they do not currently have clinically significant, functionally impairing attentional or executive deficits. Not only is there often weak evidence for childhood ADHD, but present-day functioning is frequently average to well above average across cognitive testing, occupational functioning, health behaviors, and life outcomes, with little corroboration from objective collateral sources.

These individuals are often highly conscientious, high-achieving, and operating in very demanding environments. Their distress is real -- they feel exhaustion, shame, anxiety, a sense of underperforming relative to peers -- but the clinical picture looks less like a neuropsychological disorder and more like a collision between human limits and extreme expectations (plus stress, sleep, cannabis, social media, modern work demands, etc.).

In these cases, the dilemma is not whether to withhold help out of rigid diagnostic moralism. It’s that diagnosing and prescribing are not neutral acts. Telling someone who is objectively within the normal range of human functioning, “Yes, you have a medical disorder that explains your struggles, and you require ongoing professional intervention” (or even pragmatically just the last part of that statement) carries a lot of implicit messages. Messages about where the problem resides, what kinds of limits are acceptable, what counts as failure, and what sort of relationships (with yourself, with your communities, with your purpose, with society) is encouraged.
 
These individuals are often highly conscientious, high-achieving, and operating in very demanding environments. Their distress is real -- they feel exhaustion, shame, anxiety, a sense of underperforming relative to peers -- but the clinical picture looks less like a neuropsychological disorder and more like a collision between human limits and extreme expectations (plus stress, sleep, cannabis, social media, modern work demands, etc.).

Wholly agree. People have very unrealistic expectations of what they should be able to do under stressful or difficult working conditions. Now if only we had a kind of therapy that could address these kinds of expectations...
 
Wholly agree. People have very unrealistic expectations of what they should be able to do under stressful or difficult working conditions. Now if only we had a kind of therapy that could address these kinds of expectations...
It's also the employers who have unrealistic expectations of their employees and creating these cognitively difficult working conditions. It's much more evident when someone's finger gets chopped off that there's a safety issue, much less when someone gets depressed or anxious by their employer/workplace.
 
General question, whilst we're on the subject of ADHD diagnosis and subsequent best practice treatment. Can anyone explain what the heck was up with the whole 'avoid red food dye' thing in the 70s and 80s? Was that just some weird Australian thing, or was it common elsewhere as well? And why specifically red food dye?

I can understand behavioural approaches to treatment, I can understand dietary approaches to treatment, I can understand medication approaches to treatment, I can understand a combination of all of the above, but the "no red food dye" thing has always had me stumped (and I can't find any papers on the topic either).
 
General question, whilst we're on the subject of ADHD diagnosis and subsequent best practice treatment. Can anyone explain what the heck was up with the whole 'avoid red food dye' thing in the 70s and 80s? Was that just some weird Australian thing, or was it common elsewhere as well? And why specifically red food dye?

You may be interested in the following: Meta-analysis of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder or attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder symptoms, restriction diet, and synthetic food color additives - PubMed. Also see explainer blog post here
 
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Yes it's been a replicated finding for years although pretty small effect. Here's another meta-analysis 8 years even before that one: Do artificial food colors promote hyperactivity in children with hyperactive syndromes? A meta-analysis of double-blind placebo-controlled trials

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. Thank you so much for all of this information. Looking at the most common artificial food dyes in 1970s Australia, the colour red apparently tops the list, so I'm assuming that's where the whole 'no red food dye' part of treatment came in. From when I was old enough to have fully formed memories I don't actually remember this sort of dietary restriction really doing that much in terms of helping symptoms. Behavioural type treatments seemed to help the most, so long as they were followed through with properly (didn't always happen) - that and Scott Joplin Ragtime Piano for some unknown reason. 🤔