New Chapman University accepted 90% of students interviewed

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You know it is all about the money when a university accepts more than 90% of the students interviewed. I bet the other 10% didn't even show up to their interview.

http://schoolpages.pharmcas.org/publishedsurvey/2247
  • Estimated number interviewed for fall 2015 entering class: 128
  • Estimated number accepted for fall 2015 entering class: 117

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Chapman told the ACPE their first class will only have 60 students. They ended up having 79 students. Of course they have an explanation for it:

And regarding the 79 students we brought in this Fall, we didn't try to bring in 79 students. Other schools told us that they have a 30% melt of students before classes start. This means that 30% of deposited students at most schools end up not coming the first day of class. So we accepted 87 deposits, think we would likely lose 25 students, but maybe a few more since we are a new school. But amazingly, only 8 students didn't show up for orientation. You can read into that what you want. But what we think it says is that students are excited about the unique pharmacy program we have to offer, so much so that they were willing to take the risk that we were a new school and didn't have candidate status yet.
 
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It's HICP all over again...

I hope so. That was this forum's highest point. I'd log in and read the stories like it was the new episode of Game of Thrones. The dean on the golf cart shouting encouraging messages to the students over a bullhorn. The people that moved back to Kentucky with all the money. All the screwed students. A fantastic tale.
 
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Is there data on the number of total applications?
 
^ there is no published data but supposedly they received almost 500 applicants, based on his post.

Don't get me wrong. Chapman is not going to be like HICP but they are sure as greedy. Tuition is $67,500 for year 1 and 2; $45,000 for year 3. That is a total of $180,000 in tuition per student or $3.4 M in tuition for the extra 19 students they took.

Where are they going to find rotation sites for all of these students? There are already 7 pharmacy schools in Southern California with another one that scheduled to open.
 
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^ there is no published data but supposedly they received almost 500 applicants, based on his post.

Don't get me wrong. Chapman is not going to be like HICP but they are sure as greedy. Tuition is $67,500 for year 1 and 2; $45,000 for year 3. That is a total of $180,000 in tuition per student or $3.4 M in tuition for the extra 19 students they took.

Where are they going to find rotation sites for all of these students? There are already 7 pharmacy schools in Southern California with another one that scheduled to open.

Those prices are insane, just another money hungry ***** making a mockery of the profession.
 
This ratio is on pharmcas:
  • Ratio of applications received to the number of first-year students enrolled, excluding transfer students entering other than the first year of your program: 7:1
So it looks like around 600 applicants.
 
The problem is that a lot of the new graduates have absolutely no work experience besides their rotation experience. We all know rotation experience is not exactly the real world. Pharmacists do not those clinical craps and get reimbursed for them. Who needs to hire interns when you can get them for free? Schools are desperate for sites.

Before students are required to earn internship hours besides their rotation before they are allow to take the licensure exams in California. Of course the pharmacy schools got together and changed this. Now that is no longer required. So you have new grads with a license but no real experience dispensing powerful medications. How scary is this?
 
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Not sure the hooplah here.

Some schools do the interview really as a formality. It seems to show they have a good idea of the class stats already by then. More interesting would be the stats of the entering class and stats of the interviewed class and see if there's a big disparity. But schools aren't this transparent in general I find.

Other schools (maybe 2+4, or 0-6) do the interview as a formality, just to make sure you're sane. Their class is already accepted and formed. Depends on the school. Some places put more value on the interview (more selective, Ivies), and some just a formality. Others don't even require an interview.

What's more of interest is the kind of applicant they are attracting. Are they attracting students so bad they have to cast a wide net to get lower quality students but better holistically or are the applicants so good they reject Chapman cause it's beneath them.

It's better to know how they admit students and the stats as a whole at each stage of their admissions process.
That and the price are what sickens me. Plus the president being a former APhA president. It's exploitation and pretty sure they know it. Either they are totally ignorant or plain greedy.

Still they are a grade better than that Turing Pharm CEO, who is a total ass**le who by his Twitter account has serious issues with himself.
 
This ratio is on pharmcas:
  • Ratio of applications received to the number of first-year students enrolled, excluding transfer students entering other than the first year of your program: 7:1
So it looks like around 600 applicants.

I don't get this. Why doesn't PharmCAS tell us the exact number of applicants rather give me an estimated ratio? Supposedly they received "almost 500 applicants".

The stats also doesn't tell us the whole picture. The "accepted GPA" is 3.3. What is this GPA? Accepted or admitted class GPA. Accepted GPA tends to be higher than admitted class GPA especially for a new school because competitive students have other options.

What is the range? The median GPA? Is this the prerequisite GPA or overall GPA? Has this number been verified?
 
Not sure the hooplah here.

Some schools do the interview really as a formality. It seems to show they have a good idea of the class stats already by then. More interesting would be the stats of the entering class and stats of the interviewed class and see if there's a big disparity. But schools aren't this transparent in general I find.

Other schools (maybe 2+4, or 0-6) do the interview as a formality, just to make sure you're sane. Their class is already accepted and formed. Depends on the school. Some places put more value on the interview (more selective, Ivies), and some just a formality. Others don't even require an interview.


Except this is a quote from the associate dean...

"We have a very rigorous rubric evaluation system for both individual interviews and group work to make sure the student is a good fit for our program. And we found several students who were not a good fit for our program."

So, this rigorous rubic used in their interviews only tossed out 11 people? Something doesn't quite add up, either it is important and all of these students matched perfectly with their philosophy or the interview doesn't matter and all they care about is $$$.
 
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These schools should be burned down

What a joke
 
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In the future, will new pharmacy schools have 100% admit rate to fill as many seats as possible?
 
In the future, will new pharmacy schools have 100% admit rate to fill as many seats as possible?
It seems my school is headed in that direction... there were less than half as many applications for this fall's class as when I entered 5 years ago. Relatively cheap school too, I graduate with less debt than one year of chapman would have cost me.
 
Chapman is a good school for other things, so my comment here isn't really about them...

But I wouldn't be so annoyed about these new schools if they were, you know, big/respectable institutions. When your other programs are LVN and dental hygiene, it cheapens the profession. When your school has some generic name (ie West Coast University, California Northstate, etc...), I respect that program less vs. if UC Berkeley somehow decided they wanted to jump in and open a school.

Like UC Irvine when it opened its law school in the middle of a major lawyer surplus and selected a noted constitutional law scholar as its dean (Chemerinsky), why can't this happen for pharmacy? The last "new" prestigious school that opened in California was UCSD. We can't have nice things =/
 
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I don't care if Stanford opened a pharmacy school. Just don't tell students you are training them for "emerging jobs". Clinical jobs that are not here yet but will be here when they graduate. Every new school says this crap because they know the job market is saturated so they can't charge them $45 k a year in tuition and train them to work for CVS. The funny thing is that pharmacy schools don't even train you for existing jobs! You think you are going to learn how to deal with drug seekers in your therapeutic class?!

I hear the same crap when I was a student....one buzz word after another from "clinical pharmacy" to "MTM" by the time I graduated. Next time when you hear your professors tell you about the clinical work they are doing or about their little diabetes clinic, ask them if they are getting reimbursed for clinical services. You will learn they are just volunteers. Yes, the people who are teaching and training you for these emerging jobs are the same people who depend on your tuition money to put food on the table.
 
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Besides Chapman, what other pharmacy schools have 100% admit rate? Sullivan? California Northstate?
 
The average is 3.3? Jesus. Back in my day, you needed either a perfect PCAT with a lot of field experience or your parents to donate a new library wing to get in with that. Now it's the average?
 
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You really don't need a 3.3 to function as a pharmacist. Seriously. I have respect for every job in the hospital from Radiology techs, nurses, Resp therapists, physical therapists. They all have a unique skill set that they are great at.

I have yet to figure out what a Pharmacist Add and what their skill sets are. Now with the advent of Google, they add nothing to medical practice other than Taking out pills from big containers and putting them in smaller containers.

Before the growth of google, I would call up the pharmacist for advice and get reliable/good answers.

Now I call up the pharmacists with a question and I get a 30 sec pause while I hear the keyboard typing away. Even then, they are unsure of their answers. I have had times when the pharmacists told me to hold on so he can ask the other pharmacists b/c he could not find it in his database. I could and now forgo calling the pharmacists completely. I just do my own google search for dosing, drug interactions.

I do not know what has happened to the profession but the internet has made you unsure of their field. Most lack the knowledge and confidence to give me a straight answer without doing a database search.

When I get questions from other specialists or patients, I answer it. I don't tell them to hold on while I type for the answer. I am sure they could do the same and cut me out as the middle man.

This is what is destroying the profession and destroyed the respect from other fields. This is what will make your field dispensable.

Healthcare is spiraling out of control and cost cutting measures will be enacted. Fields that add little to patient care will be chopped off at the legs. The only reason there are still a demand for pharmacists is b/c by law you have to have a pharmacists in house. Once this is removed, there will be very little need for pharmacists at all.
 
The average is 3.3? Jesus. Back in my day, you needed either a perfect PCAT with a lot of field experience or your parents to donate a new library wing to get in with that. Now it's the average?

3.3 is like two standard deviations above the average GPA for the notorious MIMG major at UCLA.

Just sayin'...not every college participates in grade inflation.
 
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You really don't need a 3.3 to function as a pharmacist. Seriously. I have respect for every job in the hospital from Radiology techs, nurses, Resp therapists, physical therapists. They all have a unique skill set that they are great at.

I have yet to figure out what a Pharmacist Add and what their skill sets are. Now with the advent of Google, they add nothing to medical practice other than Taking out pills from big containers and putting them in smaller containers.

Before the growth of google, I would call up the pharmacist for advice and get reliable/good answers.

Now I call up the pharmacists with a question and I get a 30 sec pause while I hear the keyboard typing away. Even then, they are unsure of their answers. I have had times when the pharmacists told me to hold on so he can ask the other pharmacists b/c he could not find it in his database. I could and now forgo calling the pharmacists completely. I just do my own google search for dosing, drug interactions.

I do not know what has happened to the profession but the internet has made you unsure of their field. Most lack the knowledge and confidence to give me a straight answer without doing a database search.

When I get questions from other specialists or patients, I answer it. I don't tell them to hold on while I type for the answer. I am sure they could do the same and cut me out as the middle man.

This is what is destroying the profession and destroyed the respect from other fields. This is what will make your field dispensable.

Healthcare is spiraling out of control and cost cutting measures will be enacted. Fields that add little to patient care will be chopped off at the legs. The only reason there are still a demand for pharmacists is b/c by law you have to have a pharmacists in house. Once this is removed, there will be very little need for pharmacists at all.

The profession is not going anywhere. Pharmacists are not being paid for their clinical services so Google is not going to replace the pharmacists. If Google can dispense then you got a point.
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687123/

At least 20% of every pharmacy school graduating class will be unemployed starting 2018. For Chapman, the unemployment rate for their 2018 graduating class may be as high as 50%.

article said:
Of the increase in graduates from 2001 to 2011 by 4,931, only 1,886 (38%) can be attributed to new pharmacy programs; 62% of the increase resulted from the expansion of existing programs.

So I know everyone rails on the new schools, but at least 62% of the blame falls on the beloved existing programs. No one is blameless here.
 
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That study looked at the graduation/leaving profession rate in a simplistic manner and came up with that number. They made no allowances for other variables. It is very hard to predict unemployment rates for that far out.
 
You really don't need a 3.3 to function as a pharmacist. Seriously. I have respect for every job in the hospital from Radiology techs, nurses, Resp therapists, physical therapists. They all have a unique skill set that they are great at.

I have yet to figure out what a Pharmacist Add and what their skill sets are. Now with the advent of Google, they add nothing to medical practice other than Taking out pills from big containers and putting them in smaller containers.

Before the growth of google, I would call up the pharmacist for advice and get reliable/good answers.

Now I call up the pharmacists with a question and I get a 30 sec pause while I hear the keyboard typing away. Even then, they are unsure of their answers. I have had times when the pharmacists told me to hold on so he can ask the other pharmacists b/c he could not find it in his database. I could and now forgo calling the pharmacists completely. I just do my own google search for dosing, drug interactions.

I do not know what has happened to the profession but the internet has made you unsure of their field. Most lack the knowledge and confidence to give me a straight answer without doing a database search.

When I get questions from other specialists or patients, I answer it. I don't tell them to hold on while I type for the answer. I am sure they could do the same and cut me out as the middle man.

This is what is destroying the profession and destroyed the respect from other fields. This is what will make your field dispensable.

Healthcare is spiraling out of control and cost cutting measures will be enacted. Fields that add little to patient care will be chopped off at the legs. The only reason there are still a demand for pharmacists is b/c by law you have to have a pharmacists in house. Once this is removed, there will be very little need for pharmacists at all.


Same could be said for your job, mid levels, rphs and RNs could do your job just as good and for less $. You need 8 years of school and a residency to take a blood pressure and throw lisinopril at it? Abd pain in the ER? Go down the checklist and rule out what it's not. Practicing medicine is nothing but following protocols and concensus statements. Anyone that can read can do that.

/hottake
 
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Same could be said for your job, mid levels, rphs and RNs could do your job just as good and for less $. You need 8 years of school and a residency to take a blood pressure and throw lisinopril at it? Abd pain in the ER? Go down the checklist and rule out what it's not. Practicing medicine is nothing but following protocols and concensus statements. Anyone that can read can do that.

/hottake

I do agree that Mid levels could do about 50% of what I see and can safely manage 75% of the pts for well trained ones. The difference is an abdominal pain that may look the same to a PA could distinctly be different to me b/c I have experience. I am not smarter but I have alot more experience and find the nuances.

Pharmacists are 99% task/check and balance, managers of the place and has very little to do with patient care. Your decisions are black and white 99.9% of the time in Retail. Medicine is rarely black and white as everyone manages the same problem somewhat differently.

But for a pharmacist, when I bring in a script for a zpak. EVERY pharmacist will do the same. Take big put in small, take label, put it on. Check allergies/interactions (computerized).

I am not making light of your profession. I am just stating that if your field is marginalizing your skills, oversupplying then you will be ripe for Major cuts.

Pharmacy schools are a BIG money grab. They know they can make 40-50K a student and still fill their spots. As these pharmacists keeps being pushed out, it will be a race to the bottom of the pay barrel. more marginalization of your field.

Plus, the difference is docs have direct patient care where a mistake has dire consequences. Retail is very little patient care.

I have been in a hospital based practice for 15 yrs, been to countless med exec meetings. I am not the only that have very little respect for the field of pharmacy esp retail.

Watch, there soon (if not yet) be online Pharmacy degrees from the likes of Phoenix. And Walgreens will hire them just as fast b/c they know the difference from a Phoenix vs prestigious school is razor thin when it comes to retail.
 
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What ticks me off is who runs these schools. It's a shame that the former president of APhA and the current present of APhA are the brains behind the operation of Chapman. They are brainwashing young students and absolutely do not care about what real working RPh say about new schools and the current state of job market in pharmacy. Not to mention that the current president of CA pharmacy association was the guest speaker at Claremont College SOP, which is located 4 miles from WesternU. Talk about protecting the pharmacy profession. I guess to these "academics" new schools means more jobs. It's a shame. Get ready for the pharmagedon in 2018, hold on to your jobs, gentleman.
 
You really don't need a 3.3 to function as a pharmacist. Now I call up the pharmacists with a question and I get a 30 sec pause while I hear the keyboard typing away. Even then, they are unsure of their answers. I have had times when the pharmacists told me to hold on so he can ask the other pharmacists b/c he could not find it in his database. I could and now forgo calling the pharmacists completely. I just do my own google search for dosing, drug interactions.

Pharmacists, like you, can quickly rattle off the answers for the things they see everyday in their practice. But, you aren't calling the pharmacist for everyday things, are you? You are calling because you have some extremely unusual case. The pharmacist isn't just rattling off an answer from google, you wouldn't be calling them if you could find the answer on google, would you? What the pharmacist is doing is looking up and/or figuring out the different variables, and then making a judgment call on the relative risk and or dosing--and yes, they may indeed ask their colleagues for their opinion.

I do not know what has happened to the profession but the internet has made you unsure of their field. Most lack the knowledge and confidence to give me a straight answer without doing a database search.

What has happened is the field of pharmacy has gotten much more complex. Just like "general practitioners" no longer do everything. Medicine has an ever increasing amount of specialists due to the complexity of all the new knowledge & treatments available. While pharmacy is also starting to specialize now, asking an unusual & complex question of a "general practitioner" pharmacist, means they aren't going to be able to rattle off an answer, but they probably will be able to figure out an answer (just like a general practitioner could often figure out problems in the old days after they did a little research.) I assume you are a specialist, so things are different for you, but its not unheard of for family doctors/internists today to take the time to look something up before giving a diagnosis/treatment recommendation...being a generalist is hard, and in todays litigation climate, it only makes sense to "double-check" even when one is sure of the answer.

When I get questions from other specialists or patients, I answer it. I don't tell them to hold on while I type for the answer. I am sure they could do the same and cut me out as the middle man.

Always? 100% of the time? Because I have had doctors leave the room (presumably to look something up) before they come back to give me the diagnosis and treatment. Certainly anytime a doctor refers to a specialist or says they need to call a specialist, they are saying they don't know off the top of their head. Unsurprisingly NP's/PA's don't even bother to leave the room, they will look up their protoguide right in front of me.

Pharmacists are 99% task/check and balance, managers of the place and has very little to do with patient care. Your decisions are black and white 99.9% of the time in Retail. Medicine is rarely black and white as everyone manages the same problem somewhat differently.

Actually the biggest part of our job is catching errors made from doctors who are prescribing outside of their specialty, doctors who don't normally prescribe for children who are trying to dose something for a pediatric patient, catching interactions/duplications because the patient doesn't tell you what other doctors they are seeing or what medicines those doctors have given them or what OTC herbals they are taking, making judgment calls on the computerized allergies/interaction because 90% of them are bogus (which if you got someone untrained doing the pharmacists job, either the doctor would be called on every single prescription, because pretty much every prescription has some clinically insignificant interaction/allergy alert or the doctor would never get called, even when they should because the untrained person would never call.)

But for a pharmacist, when I bring in a script for a zpak. EVERY pharmacist will do the same. Take big put in small, take label, put it on. Check allergies/interactions (computerized).

Well, perhaps every *good* pharmacist will do the same, just like every *good* doctor would be doing the same thing during an office visit. (see paragraph above for what the good pharmacist is actually doing--and of course, just like there are bad doctors, they will always be some bad pharmacists who don't do their job or do it well) Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want to always get good service? Why do you think there should be a huge variability in what a pharmacist does? I expect EVERY doctor to do the same thing when I go in for a office visit....this is a good thing.

Plus, the difference is docs have direct patient care where a mistake has dire consequences. Retail is very little patient care.

Wrong, a mistake in pharmacy can also have dire consequences. And many dispensing errors are caught by talking to the patient.

I have been in a hospital based practice for 15 yrs, been to countless med exec meetings. I am not the only that have very little respect for the field of pharmacy esp retail.

Whether or not others respect a field has nothing to do with the level of service & professionalism of that field provides. I can thing of many jobs that don't have the respect they deserve--usually because people don't respect what they don't understand, which seems to be the case with you.

Watch, there soon (if not yet) be online Pharmacy degrees from the likes of Phoenix. And Walgreens will hire them just as fast b/c they know the difference from a Phoenix vs prestigious school is razor thin when it comes to retail.

Wrong, yes chains want cheap pharmacists, but they also don't want the liability of pharmacists who can not do their job, or who can not do their job quickly. It is already possible to get on-line pharmacy degrees, but these students still must do rotations (which is the big issue with most on-line schools, they can't secure approved rotation sites for students.)

edited to fix my horrible quoting job
 
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I do agree that Mid levels could do about 50% of what I see and can safely manage 75% of the pts for well trained ones. The difference is an abdominal pain that may look the same to a PA could distinctly be different to me b/c I have experience. I am not smarter but I have alot more experience and find the nuances.

Pharmacists are 99% task/check and balance, managers of the place and has very little to do with patient care. Your decisions are black and white 99.9% of the time in Retail. Medicine is rarely black and white as everyone manages the same problem somewhat differently.

But for a pharmacist, when I bring in a script for a zpak. EVERY pharmacist will do the same. Take big put in small, take label, put it on. Check allergies/interactions (computerized).

I am not making light of your profession. I am just stating that if your field is marginalizing your skills, oversupplying then you will be ripe for Major cuts.

Pharmacy schools are a BIG money grab. They know they can make 40-50K a student and still fill their spots. As these pharmacists keeps being pushed out, it will be a race to the bottom of the pay barrel. more marginalization of your field.

Plus, the difference is docs have direct patient care where a mistake has dire consequences. Retail is very little patient care.

I have been in a hospital based practice for 15 yrs, been to countless med exec meetings. I am not the only that have very little respect for the field of pharmacy esp retail.

Watch, there soon (if not yet) be online Pharmacy degrees from the likes of Phoenix. And Walgreens will hire them just as fast b/c they know the difference from a Phoenix vs prestigious school is razor thin when it comes to retail.

There is a lot of waste in the medical profession. Things are being done just to generate revenue. If you get rid of this waste, you will also get rid of many healthcare professionals including physicians. The profession of pharmacy is going thru some pain right now but unlike you guys, we don't have another group of professionals trying to do our job and take away our livelihood. Obamacare is also not hurting us like it is hurting you guys.

Patient care sounds nice but honestly, it is crap. Why would you want to take care of sick people for the rest of your life? You have your own life to live. Your own family to take care of. Unless you have a passion for it, why do it? Why work that hard and then pay 50% of your salary to the government?
 
There is a lot of waste in the medical profession. Things are being done just to generate revenue. If you get rid of this waste, you will also get rid of many healthcare professionals including physicians. The profession of pharmacy is going thru some pain right now but unlike you guys, we don't have another group of professionals trying to do our job and take away our livelihood. Obamacare is also not hurting us like it is hurting you guys.

Patient care sounds nice but honestly, it is crap. Why would you want to take care of sick people for the rest of your life? You have your own life to live. Your own family to take care of. Unless you have a passion for it, why do it? Why work that hard and then pay 50% of your salary to the government?

There doesn't need to be another group to take over your jobs b/c your job is dispensable. Walgreen could close down all of their pharmacies, open 5 mega pharmacies in town, hire one pharmacist per shift to oversee 50 techs and no one would care. Other than having a pharmacy a block a way, no one would notice a difference.

If you don't think obamacare is indirectly affecting your field, then you are ignorant. What when obamacare cuts down your script fill margins and Walgreens stocks goes down. The first they will cut is Pharmacy jobs which they realize is not a true necessity, just to fulfill regulations. I have been in many hospital meetings for cost cutting and people in corporate are already exploring ways to reduce Pharmacy jobs.

There still is alot of weight put on who your doctor is, because it matters. People go out of their way to keep their docs b/c skill matters. No one care who their pharmacists is who fills their scripts, just where the best prices are. That is why the retail side of pharmacy requires very little true pharmacists skill. you could have the best pharmacists fill a script and it would look no different than the worse.

The rest of your posts is just a bunch of nonsense.
 
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Pharmacists, like you, can quickly rattle off the answers for the things they see everyday in their practice. But, you aren't calling the pharmacist for everyday things, are you? You are calling because you have some extremely unusual case. The pharmacist isn't just rattling off an answer from google, you wouldn't be calling them if you could find the answer on google, would you? What the pharmacist is doing is looking up and/or figuring out the different variables, and then making a judgment call on the relative risk and or dosing--and yes, they may indeed ask their colleagues for their opinion.

I wish this was true. I rarely have any question that is a complex pharmacy question that i could not get an answer in 30 sec of googling. Something as simple as TPA dosing requires a computer search. I bet if you ask 100 pharmacist the dosing of common drugs such as Keflex, atleast 50% couldn't tell you without going to a computer.

Again, your profession has been marginalized to moving the meat, filling as much scripts as possible without any need for knowledge that you learned. Filling scripts are all computerized. You put in the drug, the computer spits out any drug interactions and if the Sig makes sense.

I am quite confident that I could run a pharmacy with 1 week of training, and most of it would be to learn the computer system. Hospital based pharmacists are different in that they use the knowledge they learned. Retail has been dumbed down to just putting as many pills from a big bottle to little bottle as possible without any thought to what you are really doing.
 
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There doesn't need to be another group to take over your jobs b/c your job is dispensable. Walgreen could close down all of their pharmacies, open 5 mega pharmacies in town, hire one pharmacist per shift to oversee 50 techs and no one would care. Other than having a pharmacy a block a way, no one would notice a difference.

If you don't think obamacare is indirectly affecting your field, then you are ignorant. What when obamacare cuts down your script fill margins and Walgreens stocks goes down. The first they will cut is Pharmacy jobs which they realize is not a true necessity, just to fulfill regulations. I have been in many hospital meetings for cost cutting and people in corporate are already exploring ways to reduce Pharmacy jobs.

There still is alot of weight put on who your doctor is, because it matters. People go out of their way to keep their docs b/c skill matters. No one care who their pharmacists is who fills their scripts, just where the best prices are. That is why the retail side of pharmacy requires very little true pharmacists skill. you could have the best pharmacists fill a script and it would look no different than the worse.

The rest of your posts is just a bunch of nonsense.

Stop trying to make it seems like you are some big shot. You are not.

Central fill? Where have you been? Ever heard of mail order pharmacies? How about Walgreens POWER? Google it.

Read what I said about Obamacare again. Of course it is affecting everyone including pharmacy. Like everything else in life, there are winners and there are losers. CVS, Walgreens, United Health are the winners. Record profit. Record stock value this year. They are certainly not making less like you had claimed. Get your facts right.

There is a lot of unnecessary waste in healthcare including pharmacy. But if you want to cut out a lot of the extra fat, pharmacy is not it.

The funny thing is even CVS is invading your "territory" with their Minute Clinic. You guys for years have been trying to keep the number of physicians low for financial gains. This leads to nurse practitioners who don't need to go to school for a zillion year, who don't have much student loans and who can do a lot of the things you do but for much less. I wonder who is going to win in the age of Obamacare.
 
I wish this was true. I rarely have any question that is a complex pharmacy question that i could not get an answer in 30 sec of googling. Something as simple as TPA dosing requires a computer search. I bet if you ask 100 pharmacist the dosing of common drugs such as Keflex, atleast 50% couldn't tell you without going to a computer.

Again, your profession has been marginalized to moving the meat, filling as much scripts as possible without any need for knowledge that you learned. Filling scripts are all computerized. You put in the drug, the computer spits out any drug interactions and if the Sig makes sense.

I am quite confident that I could run a pharmacy with 1 week of training, and most of it would be to learn the computer system. Hospital based pharmacists are different in that they use the knowledge they learned. Retail has been dumbed down to just putting as many pills from a big bottle to little bottle as possible without any thought to what you are really doing.


I wish every physician was as smart as you, I can't even get doctors to correctly fill out a prescription.

Then again most of them can't tell me renal dosing or alternatives to therapy or basic appropriate dosing guidelines either.
 
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I wish every physician was as smart as you, I can't even get doctors to correctly fill out a prescription.

Then again most of them can't tell me renal dosing or alternatives to therapy or basic appropriate dosing guidelines either.


Seriously. If doctors are so good at their jobs and don't need pharmacists why do I need to stop them from trying to kill a patient several times a day? But you're probably not like that you're just magically better than you fellow docotors
 
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Seriously. If doctors are so good at their jobs and don't need pharmacists why do I need to stop them from trying to kill a patient several times a day? But you're probably not like that you're just magically better than you fellow docotors

I always wonder what constitutes "trying to kill a patient". Is it prescribing keflex to someone who has a listed allergy to penicillin? Is is putting someone on a second ACE inhibitor? Or is it stopping them from writing potassium repletion as an IV push?

Granted, I make mistakes just like any other person, but I don't think anything I've been corrected on would have actually killed a patient. Oftentimes, I feel like the corrections wouldn't even make a change in the clinical progression of a patient's disease. I still wonder if the pharmacist who called to make the change counts that as a life saved or just another intervention we have to make to please the healthcare gods.
 
I don't know how a thread about chapman admission got hijacked by an md trying to devalue pharmacists.

As a hospital RPh, I know very few docs who know how to dose vanco and aminoglicosides as well as the conical RPh. Not to mention antibiotic stewardship, Coumadin dosing, and other actual conical services that RPh do that medical doctors do not want to have anything to do with.

Sounds like you have second rate RPh working in your hospital and you are generalizing. If you don't make medical mistakes doesn't mean plenty of other docs are equally as knowledgable, especially when pa and np write rx.

Again, I don't even get how this is mentioned in this thread or why.
 
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I always wonder what constitutes "trying to kill a patient". Is it prescribing keflex to someone who has a listed allergy to penicillin? Is is putting someone on a second ACE inhibitor? Or is it stopping them from writing potassium repletion as an IV push?

Killing patients are thinking like
amox in someone with penn anaphylaxis, dropping the decimal when writing 1.0 mg warfarin daily, grossly negligent opiate dosing, etc. things that will actually put someone in the icu. But doctors more often try to kill my psyche but being lazy and refusing to write a complete and clear rx
 
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I always wonder what constitutes "trying to kill a patient". Is it prescribing keflex to someone who has a listed allergy to penicillin? Is is putting someone on a second ACE inhibitor? Or is it stopping them from writing potassium repletion as an IV push?

Granted, I make mistakes just like any other person, but I don't think anything I've been corrected on would have actually killed a patient. Oftentimes, I feel like the corrections wouldn't even make a change in the clinical progression of a patient's disease. I still wonder if the pharmacist who called to make the change counts that as a life saved or just another intervention we have to make to please the healthcare gods.
one thing that comes to mind is not renally reducing tikosyn - I have personally seen two patients code from it

prescribing ace-I to somebody with a history of ace-i angioedema

not replacing the mag and kcl before giving somebody corvert

but what was said early is probably more accurate and that is sucking my will to live by not following simple policies.

But seriously @emergentmd - we are all part of a team and every doc that I work with values our importance and all should get mutual respect. Heck, even the last JCAHO inspector (a former pediatric nephrologist) said the best thing he has seen in his years as a surveyor was getting the pharmacist on the floors and especially the ED
 
Walgreens Power program is more or less a failure. It has not worked as they envisioned.
 
Seriously. If doctors are so good at their jobs and don't need pharmacists why do I need to stop them from trying to kill a patient several times a day? But you're probably not like that you're just magically better than you fellow docotors
All this bickering among health professionals is f ucking pathetic. No wonder healthcare in the US is going down the ****ters.
 
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I wish every physician was as smart as you, I can't even get doctors to correctly fill out a prescription.

Then again most of them can't tell me renal dosing or alternatives to therapy or basic appropriate dosing guidelines either.
Because our main focus in our education isn't pharmacology. It's physiology, pathology, and diagnosis. If we can do most of what you do, then do you really need you? Do you want us to manage INRs too? Same logic applies to nursing. Do you expect us to start a peripheral IV line better than a nurse?

Again, why is it so hard for professionals to get along? We all should have a common enemy and if you don't know what that is then shame on you.
 
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Stop trying to make it seems like you are some big shot. You are not.

Central fill? Where have you been? Ever heard of mail order pharmacies? How about Walgreens POWER? Google it.

Read what I said about Obamacare again. Of course it is affecting everyone including pharmacy. Like everything else in life, there are winners and there are losers. CVS, Walgreens, United Health are the winners. Record profit. Record stock value this year. They are certainly not making less like you had claimed. Get your facts right.

There is a lot of unnecessary waste in healthcare including pharmacy. But if you want to cut out a lot of the extra fat, pharmacy is not it.

The funny thing is even CVS is invading your "territory" with their Minute Clinic. You guys for years have been trying to keep the number of physicians low for financial gains. This leads to nurse practitioners who don't need to go to school for a zillion year, who don't have much student loans and who can do a lot of the things you do but for much less. I wonder who is going to win in the age of Obamacare.

This is why some call the AMA a cartel organization. On the other side, they seem to be doing a lot better representing and protecting the medical profession as opposed to the APhA, an organization run by a suspect group of leaders to say the least. Cough, Chapman Associate Dean, Cough.
 
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How do mds and md students find these random threads and invade them with chest puffery? Is there some sort bat signal that goes out?
 
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Because our main focus in our education isn't pharmacology. It's physiology, pathology, and diagnosis. If we can do most of what you do, then do you really need you? Do you want us to manage INRs too? Same logic applies to nursing. Do you expect us to start a peripheral IV line better than a nurse?

Again, why is it so hard for professionals to get along? We all should have a common enemy and if you don't know what that is then shame on you.

That's the point, we get that, it is your colleague that doesn't.
 
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There doesn't need to be another group to take over your jobs b/c your job is dispensable. Walgreen could close down all of their pharmacies, open 5 mega pharmacies in town, hire one pharmacist per shift to oversee 50 techs and no one would care. Other than having a pharmacy a block a way, no one would notice a difference.

Wrong, the number of serious errors would dramatically go up, and that would certainly get people's attentions.

The first they will cut is Pharmacy jobs which they realize is not a true necessity, just to fulfill regulations. I have been in many hospital meetings for cost cutting and people in corporate are already exploring ways to reduce Pharmacy jobs.

You don't think hospitals and retail establishments have tried this before? The problem is the number of errors and lawsuits go up--pharmacists are needed.

one care who their pharmacists is who fills their scripts, just where the best prices are. That is why the retail side of pharmacy requires very little true pharmacists skill. you could have the best pharmacists fill a script and it would look no different than the worse.

Wrong again, people certainly care when they get a negative effect from a prescription, or worse yet, have a family member die from a prescription that should never have been filled. People don't go to pharmacies that are known for having a high error rate. Also, very few people care about the cost of a prescription, because 90% of prescriptions are Medicaid/medicare/insurance prescriptions--for the majority of people, they pay the same co-pay regardless of the pharmacy they go to, so yes, they are picking their pharmacy based on factors such as customer satisfaction (ie the relationship they have with the pharmacist and technicians.)

The rest of your posts is just a bunch of nonsense.

True, I fixed the editing.

I wish this was true. I rarely have any question that is a complex pharmacy question that i could not get an answer in 30 sec of googling. Something as simple as TPA dosing requires a computer search. I bet if you ask 100 pharmacist the dosing of common drugs such as Keflex, atleast 50% couldn't tell you without going to a computer.

I don't believe you. Calling a pharmacist takes a lot longer than doing 30 seconds of googling, there would be absolutely no reason to call a pharmacist unless you couldn't find your answer googling.

I am quite confident that I could run a pharmacy with 1 week of training, and most of it would be to learn the computer system. Hospital based pharmacists are different in that they use the knowledge they learned. Retail has been dumbed down to just putting as many pills from a big bottle to little bottle as possible without any thought to what you are really doing.

I am quote confident that you have absolutely no idea how little you know about how a pharmacy is run. You make as much sense as the NP's who say they know as much as MD/DO.....of course, MD's/DO's are quick to point out that the NP's have no idea what they don't know. Same for you thinking you could do a pharmacist's job, which certainly involves a lot more brain-power and decision making then just a plug and play computer program.

I always wonder what constitutes "trying to kill a patient". Is it prescribing keflex to someone who has a listed allergy to penicillin? Is is putting someone on a second ACE inhibitor? Or is it stopping them from writing potassium repletion as an IV push?

Fentanyl patch use in narcotic naïve patients is one I see frequently. I had one DO refuse to change a fentanyl patch that he had prescribed for a post-op, narcotic naïve pediatric patient. I talked to him about several other options, and his answer to everyone was "I don't feel comfortable prescribing that." I told the patient's mother the dose would most likely be fatal and I wouldn't fill it. You say you've never been corrected for a mistake that could be fatal, probably you didn't even recognize the fatal error you were making, for all I know you, you are the same DO who refused to change the fentanyl patch in the post-op pediatric patient....he probably doesn't recognize that I saved his patients life and saved him from a huge malpractice lawsuit either.

Wrong conversion of narcotics from one drug to another, leading to potentially fatal doses is another one I see frequently.

Bear in mind that neither of these, are things the computer would flag, since narcotic dosing is individual, this is stuff the pharmacist is catching. Other's have given other examples. The computer data is meaningless without a trained professional to interpret it.

All this bickering among health professionals is f ucking pathetic. No wonder healthcare in the US is going down the ****ters.

Sadly true, our enemy uses the divide and conquer technique, and many fall for it.
 
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Because our main focus in our education isn't pharmacology. It's physiology, pathology, and diagnosis. If we can do most of what you do, then do you really need you? Do you want us to manage INRs too? Same logic applies to nursing. Do you expect us to start a peripheral IV line better than a nurse?

Again, why is it so hard for professionals to get along? We all should have a common enemy and if you don't know what that is then shame on you.

Funny how you have nothing to say to your fellow MD, emergentmd, who started the attack with this clever attack "I have yet to figure out what a Pharmacist Add and what their skill sets are."
 
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