New DO schools

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Is going to ICOM that much of a career suicide? 🙁 I have extremely extenuating circumstances that lead me to choose ICOM over other DO schools. Plus I just liked the school.
 
DrRainbow said:
Is going to ICOM that much of a career suicide? 🙁 I have extremely extenuating circumstances that lead me to choose ICOM over other DO schools. Plus I just liked the school.
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I'm far from an expert, but I think there's obviously risk attached going to a newer school. You don't know how well the curriculum will prepare you for boards, clinical rotations are a big risk, etc. There's a lot of uncertainty. That said I don't think ICOM is "career suicide" but any new school is a little risky, especially as more and more keep cropping up. I say that as someone whose only acceptances rn are at schools who won't graduate their first class until next year.
 
seaturtle98 said:
VCOM Monroe, LA for 2020...supposedly.
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Lmao, what a joke. These new DO schools are diluting the profession. At this rate (each new school has like 250 or some absurd class size?) they will push out all the IMGs from the match and the new DO schools will become the next caribbean.
 
dohopeful13 said:
I'm far from an expert, but I think there's obviously risk attached going to a newer school. You don't know how well the curriculum will prepare you for boards, clinical rotations are a big risk, etc. There's a lot of uncertainty. That said I don't think ICOM is "career suicide" but any new school is a little risky, especially as more and more keep cropping up. I say that as someone whose only acceptances rn are at schools who won't graduate their first class until next year.
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I had choices at other DO schools, but my choice was based on other things. I'm a very good standardized test taker, and I've already been in touch with ICOM about setting up research. I think I can do the leg work on my end, but I don't want to get written off just because I went to a new school. I know that pedigree matters with MD schools, but I was under the impression that once you're in a DO school, you get treated pretty much the same (that is, less competitively).
 
DrRainbow said:
I had choices at other DO schools, but my choice was based on other things. I'm a very good standardized test taker, and I've already been in touch with ICOM about setting up research. I think I can do the leg work on my end, but I don't want to get written off just because I went to a new school. I know that pedigree matters with MD schools, but I was under the impression that once you're in a DO school, you get treated pretty much the same (that is, less competitively).
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Yeah, I think your board schools will matter a lot more than any DO prestige will. My major concern with all these new schools opening up is access to quality rotations and (eventually) ability to match if more seats keep getting added.
 
NicMouse64 said:
Lmao, what a joke. These new DO schools are diluting the profession. At this rate (each new school has like 250 or some absurd class size?) they will push out all the IMGs from the match and the new DO schools will become the next caribbean.
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For reference, VCOM class sizes are set at 162.
 
Dixon Hill said:
For reference, VCOM class sizes are set at 162.
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that statement is meaningless when they will have 4 campuses. They can continue to add campuses and make their "class sizes" over 1000. Some DO med school admins are getting rich off of this semi-ponzi scheme.
 
NicMouse64 said:
that statement is meaningless when they will have 4 campuses. They can continue to add campuses and make their "class sizes" over 1000. Some DO med school admins are getting rich off of this semi-ponzi scheme.
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Not really. "Class size" as a measure remains per campus. Viewing as aggregate, sum of all campuses, has no meaning. We're not talking total of all enrollees as might legitimately be claimed for onlines like UoPhoenix, Capella.
 
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Dixon Hill said:
Not really. "Class size" as a measure remains per campus. Viewing as aggregate, sum of all campuses', has no meaning. We're not talking total of all enrollees as might legitimately be claimed for onlines like UoPhoenix, Capella.
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What skin do you have in the game? Look at pharmacy, NP, PA, law, etc. for examples of why quantity can be detrimental for the profession. The reason Allopathic schools stay successful is due to tight regulation by the LCME. The same can't be said for the AOA. More crap DO schools and campuses combined with the merger is going to turn the DO into the next caribbean.
 
DrRainbow said:
Is going to ICOM that much of a career suicide? 🙁 I have extremely extenuating circumstances that lead me to choose ICOM over other DO schools. Plus I just liked the school.
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I wouldn't say that. But as a brand new school, they face the challenge of having a weaker class of students, working out how to deliver a curriculum, and a clinical education that is a complete black box as of right now.
 
Goro said:
I wouldn't say that. But as a brand new school, they face the challenge of having a weaker class of students, working out how to deliver a curriculum, and a clinical education that is a complete black box as of right now.
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Of all the states to start a school! I don’t care how fancy the building is or how well the the dean did at his last job... When you decide to “compete” against UW, U of U, UC, and OHSU (don’t forget the 3 other established DO schools)... Welp, your clinical education is going to be weak af. Idaho exports/contracts 50 students off to some of the best MD programs in our country (Idaho basically has more MD seats per capita than Utah residents ~80). I know as a future DO student I will most likely get left over scraps for my rotations... But simply put ICOM is F’ed!
 
NicMouse64 said:
What skin do you have in the game? Look at pharmacy, NP, PA, law, etc. for examples of why quantity can be detrimental for the profession. The reason Allopathic schools stay successful is due to tight regulation by the LCME. The same can't be said for the AOA. More crap DO schools and campuses combined with the merger is going to turn the DO into the next caribbean.
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"why quantity can be detrimental" -- Uh, wasn't my point? 😉 Re "skin," obviously none to *lose* (clear from profile status), but 30+ yrs in the biz, faculty at research uni & .mil teaching hospitals with multiple GME programs. No agendas, just more broad-based experience than most. 🙂
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
But we are. LECOM literally reports their class and match list as a sum of all their campuses. VCOM too.
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"Report," possibly. However in actual IRL terms, it's as valid to categorize all med schools in a state system, or even in a geographic *region*, the same way. IOW, not. 🙂
 
Goro said:
I wouldn't say that. But as a brand new school, they face the challenge of having a weaker class of students, working out how to deliver a curriculum, and a clinical education that is a complete black box as of right now.
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True words, but of course the same was said about VCOM-VA when it first started, FSU SOM when it did, etc., etc., Granted you do reach market saturation at some point, & need for more residency progs is a given, but that's also been the case since even before I first came to the biz decades ago. Schools have always managed to find rotation/residency programs; it's always been an initial question mark for all new schools.
 
NicMouse64 said:
that statement is meaningless when they will have 4 campuses. They can continue to add campuses and make their "class sizes" over 1000. Some DO med school admins are getting rich off of this semi-ponzi scheme.
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Yikes.
 
Dixon Hill said:
Schools have always managed to find rotation/residency programs
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No. DO schools are notorious for not opening up their own GME. Generally they just try and parasite off of the programs in Ohio and Michigan. And sure they may "find rotations" but those rotations are crap most of the time. It's easy to "find rotations" when all that means is you have to find a physician somewhere that will let a student tag along.
 
DrRainbow said:
Is going to ICOM that much of a career suicide? 🙁 I have extremely extenuating circumstances that lead me to choose ICOM over other DO schools. Plus I just liked the school.
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Going to any DO school now is career suicide.
 
Rekt said:
Going to any DO school now is career suicide.
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Career suicide? That's a bit much. I would say going to a new DO school is a seriously bad move right now but I still wouldn't say career suicide.

The DO world is becoming bi-modal, with the established, well known schools and state schools on one end and the crappy newer schools on the other. Going to a school that isn't very well established in their respective region is a really bad move. Even AOA residencies are looking at the grads of the newer schools with skepticism now.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Career suicide? That's a bit much. I would say going to a new DO school is a seriously bad move right now but I still wouldn't say career suicide.

The DO world is becoming bi-modal, with the established, well known schools and state schools on one end and the crappy newer schools on the other. Going to a school that isn't very well established in their respective region is a really bad move. Even AOA residencies are looking at the grads of the newer schools with skepticism now.
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As someone in the midst of applying and interviewing right now, your (DO) school name means absolutely nothing beyond maybe a couple regional programs and I come from a school hailed on here. When you're sitting in a room full of MDs from big name schools and state schools and almost every single person, including faculty, asks oh Ive never heard of that where is it? It becomes obvious. You only get here by doing exceptionally well, including doing much better than the people you're sitting in the room with. People are definitely hurting for interviews this year in my class with some exceptions.

The next few years are going to be a massacre.
 
Rekt said:
As someone in the midst of applying and interviewing right now, your (DO) school name means absolutely nothing beyond maybe a couple regional programs and I come from a school hailed on here. When you're sitting in a room full of MDs from big name schools and state schools and almost every single person, including faculty, asks oh Ive never heard of that where is it? It becomes obvious. You only get here by doing exceptionally well, including doing much better than the people you're sitting in the room with. People are definitely hurting for interviews this year in my class with some exceptions.

The next few years are going to be a massacre.
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I literally said well known in their respective region. I would add the former AOA programs to that list. Even AOA programs look at people from the state schools and established schools differently than the ones coming from the new schools. People at my school who are hurting for interviews are the ones who didn't apply broadly enough.

I agree overall, yet "going to any DO school now is career suicide" is a little dramatic. People from the established schools are still matching just fine. The squeeze is far less the merger and has more to do with the fact that the AOA is selling us out and inflating the applicant pool with people from all the new schools they are green lighting.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I literally said well known in their respective region. I would add the former AOA programs to that list. Even AOA programs look at people from the state schools and established schools differently than the ones coming from the new schools. People at my school who are hurting for interviews are the ones who didn't apply broadly enough.

I agree overall, yet "going to any DO school now is career suicide" is a little dramatic. People from the established schools are still matching just fine. The squeeze is far less the merger and has more to do with the fact that the AOA is selling us out and inflating the applicant pool with people from all the new schools they are green lighting.
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"Region" is much different than 1-2 programs FYI. But I'll beg to differ. We'll see how it plays out this cycle and the next few.
 
WE don't need new DO schools.

We need better goddamn rotations and clinical sites comparable to MDs.

I was a pre-med on here years ago. Trust me. I thought that all DO programs were comparable and that it doesn't matter.

As a third year in rotations, our rotations are subpar. Constant changes in preceptors, sites, and moving around sucks ass. Also, I have a lot more activity in outpatient settings... but I want to be in the hospital so I can see what REAL SICKNESS looks like.

New DO schools are money grabs. That's all.

It is better than the Caribbean... but it's not as great as y'all think.
 
QueenJames said:
WE don't need new DO schools.

We need better goddamn rotations and clinical sites comparable to MDs.

I was a pre-med on here years ago. Trust me. I thought that all DO programs were comparable and that it doesn't matter.

As a third year in rotations, our rotations are subpar. Constant changes in preceptors, sites, and moving around sucks ass. Also, I have a lot more activity in outpatient settings... but I want to be in the hospital so I can see what REAL SICKNESS looks like.

New DO schools are money grabs. That's all.

It is better than the Caribbean... but it's not as great as y'all think.
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Not sure if this helps, but consider when scheduling future rotations, look for some hospitals where they only have FM residents. They rotate on all of the medicine and surgery services. You will get to see and do more there than in large teaching hospitals with 5 med students on your service. These are usually larger hospitals where they might be the main hospital in the county. Good luck and best wishes
 
DrRainbow said:
Is going to ICOM that much of a career suicide? 🙁 I have extremely extenuating circumstances that lead me to choose ICOM over other DO schools. Plus I just liked the school.
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No its not. Frankly it does not really matter where you go to school. Just how you perform. Going to a more established DO school may slightly help but at the end of the day it will not come down to that
 
eberge3 said:
No its not. Frankly it does not really matter where you go to school. Just how you perform. Going to a more established DO school may slightly help but at the end of the day it will not come down to that
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I just interviewed at ICOM and was blown away by the facility. I’m aware of the risk of being a new DO school, but Dean Hasty knows what he’s doing and I would go there in a second if accepted.
 
Does it matter the founder of BCOM is same founder for ICOM? I feel like this isn’t the first rodeo for any of them
 
snowcrawler85 said:
Does it matter the founder of BCOM is same founder for ICOM? I feel like this isn’t the first rodeo for any of them
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ICOM will have weak rotations no matter their leadership experience... The MD schools in the West lay claim to almost everything and what the MD schools don’t posses COMP-NW/PNWU basically have. It’s going to be a rough go for them and their students, but hopefully they’ll land a small claim in the region (for the sake of their students).
 
OP I'd say when applying DO you should definitely do your homework about the clinical rotation sites. Some DO have solid rotations (pretty much every state DO, PCOM,) and some are just absolutely terrible. As others have said, if your only option is brand new DO programs you should take the time to consider improving your app rather than applying. Med school is challenging (and usually expensive) anywhere you go. Don't rush into a program you might regret because you want to get in next cycle.
 
workaholic181 said:
OP I'd say when applying DO you should definitely do your homework about the clinical rotation sites. Some DO have solid rotations (pretty much every state DO, PCOM,) and some are just absolutely terrible. As others have said, if your only option is brand new DO programs you should take the time to consider improving your app rather than applying. Med school is challenging (and usually expensive) anywhere you go. Don't rush into a program you might regret because you want to get in next cycle.
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This is new news for me and great advice. What are some examples of solid vs terrible rotations sites or red flags we should be aware of? Would new schools be up front and tell you? Thanks for the advice.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
xkb89 said:
What are some examples of solid vs terrible rotations sites or red flags we should be aware of?
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Unfortunately it's hard to find this info out on interview day because you basically only interact with pre-clinical students who might pretend like they know but truth is that they don't. The best way is to see if you can get ahold of a 3rd year on here (SDN) and chat with them about rotations.

xkb89 said:
Would new schools be up front and tell you?
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The issue with new schools is that their 3rd year sites are still in such a flux when they open that anything they tell you could drastically change by the time you actually get to rotations. My advice right now is to honestly avoid new DO schools like the plague. It's not going to be pretty in the match the next few years and students at the new schools will likely feel it the most.
 
I agree with much of what is being said here. I loved ICOM and would go there if accepted no where else in a heartbeat. However, know what you’re getting into with these newer schools and don’t bank on Derm, Optho, Rads Onc etc.
 
So far, as an OMS1, I believe ARCOM has been consistently improving its curriculum delivery over the last semester. It will be interesting to see what the board scores of the OMS2’s look like at the end of next semester though. I’m sort of nervous on one hand, yet very optimistic on the other hand that we will do respectably well (I’m not expecting top scores, but decent) since our basic sciences department heads are just fantastic at their jobs. The only problems so far stem from our clinical classes, mainly due to issues with making sure we know what is and isn’t always relevant to ask based on the patient’s situation. It makes for a very hectic and confusing environment when you have some faculty telling you things that run counter to what other faculty members have told you. So some continuity would be a step in the right direction.
 
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