New For Profit School

Started by medpsych1
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medpsych1

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The nation's only for-profit medical school for training MDs wants to open in Palm Beach County.
As Florida Atlantic University seeks accreditation for its medical school, Palm Beach Medical College is hot on its tail.
The proposed school has applied for a license from the state to issue medical degrees. And it is seeking accreditation from the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, the accrediting agency for schools granting medical degrees.
"The demand for doctors is alarmingly high," said Pete Martinez, a former IBM vice president who is chairman of Palm Beach Medical Education Corporation. "If you look at the state of medical schools right now, you can't count on states right now to fund them … If you go to the private sector, the private sector will get it immediately."
If successful, Palm Beach Medical would be the second for-profit medical school in the country, but the only for-profit allopathic medical school, which produces MDs.
Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo., opened in 2008 as the first for-profit medical school in the country. It produces DOs.
Martinez is working with Dr. Carlos Martini, Palm Beach Medical's president and CEO, to establish the new medical school.
Martini was instrumental in developing and winning approval for Florida International University's medical school. He worked with the University of California Merced as it developed a medical school. Martini, the former vice president for medical education at the American Medical Association, also has helped develop international medical schools.
Martinez was reluctant to talk about the proposed medical school as it seeks state approval. The state's decision could come in January.
But the school's application sheds light on its plans.
Medical students would work in small groups with faculty mentors. The students would have early exposure — in the first two years — to patient care in clinical settings such as physician offices, hospitals and nursing homes.
Palm Beach Medical already has an agreement with the University of California system to use its joint medical program curriculum.
Technology would play a large role in the curriculum, with much of the education material electronic, allowing students to have three-dimensional views of patient cases. Electronic medical records would be instrumental in the students' education.
With the strong technology component, Martinez calls it "a disruptive model of how you do medical education."
The target opening is 2012, with an inaugural class of 100. Proposed tuition is $50,700 a year.
The college initially would lease space — it estimates it would need about 140,000 square feet — in Palm Beach County with a preference for southern Palm Beach County. Boca Raton is being considered because of its central location to Broward and Palm Beach counties.
The college has been reaching out to local hospitals that could provide clinical training.
It already established a relationship with the Caridad Center west of Boynton Beach. Students would receive hands-on training at the clinic, the largest free medical clinic in Palm Beach County, while working alongside their professors.
"I foresee our patients benefitting," said Connie Berry, Caridad Center board president. "We always need physicians."
That relationship could mean improved medical equipment, electronic records and lab and imaging services for the clinic, paid for by the college to enrich the medical education experience. The medical school also would pay for any expansion of the clinic.
Financing for the college would come from private investors.
Some in the medical community are skeptical of for-profit medical schools.
"For-profit medical education only works by over-charging and under-teaching, mainly through co-opting community hospitals [and some larger ones] to provide the clinical education in the last two years," wrote Dr. Richard Cooper, professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, in an e-mail.
But Martinez argues that the private sector may be the solution to the severe shortage of physicians facing Florida and the nation.
Martinez said the number of applicants applying to medical schools in Florida far outnumbers those accepted.
But state and federal governments have been unwilling or unable to fund medical education. That's where the private sector comes in.
"It's a real dilemma," Cooper said. "I hate the idea of for-profit medical schools, but I hate the idea of not enough doctors even more."



http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/s...palm-beach-1091988.html?viewAsSinglePage=true

Comment:
The number of residency spots has been relatively static since the Medicare GME cap was put in place in 1996. The pipeline of physicians is directed related to the number of residency positions. Therefore the opening of all these new schools in the name of meeting some perceived need or shortage of physicians is nonsense. Opening new schools does not increase residency spots.
Opening new schools does generate a lot of new tuition dollars.
 
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Wasn't this already brought up in another thread?

PS - I do agree, though, that if you are going to add a bunch of schools, you should have somewhere to put the grads. As long as they are qualified.
 
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1. It still has a long way to go before actually training students (meaning a lot could happen between now and then) BUT ...

2. I brought this school up months ago and everyone said I was crazy

3. Even if it fails, I feel it + RVU (keep in mind that I'm a DO student too and still really find a LOT of issues with Rocky Vista University) are just paving the road for for-profit education to become a very real part of medical education. Smart business people will use these first models to continually tweak and grease the wheels until they'll be able to implement these programs (IMO).
 
How is RVU doing? Did it's first class graduate yet?
 
What I love about some of you kids is that you think that just because your state institution is "public" that it somehow means they don't have a profit motive at all. Having served on the Board of a major state public institution, I can absolutely guarantee that the exact opposite is true. The difference between so-called public schools and for-profit schools is that public schools are beholden to unions and political hacks whereas the for-profit schools are beholden to bond holders and other private investors. On the other hand, we all (the taxpayers amongst us anyway) underwrite the failed and inefficient public school whereas consenting private interests underwrite the for-profits.
 
2. I brought this school up months ago and everyone said I was crazy

...and you still are. LCME has a stated bias against for-profit MD schools and the threshold for these guys to get going will be enormous.

i can't help but think that the LCME knows the creation of medical schools has no direct impact on the physician supply nationally, and that they are wary of an RVU-style controversy impacting MD education.

IMO, this place hasn't got a chance.
 
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Meh, there's definitely a bias but being nonprofit isn't a requirement according to the LCME. It has a small but real chance of being a reality.
 
What I love about some of you kids is that you think that just because your state institution is "public" that it somehow means they don't have a profit motive at all. Having served on the Board of a major state public institution, I can absolutely guarantee that the exact opposite is true. The difference between so-called public schools and for-profit schools is that public schools are beholden to unions and political hacks whereas the for-profit schools are beholden to bond holders and other private investors. On the other hand, we all (the taxpayers amongst us anyway) underwrite the failed and inefficient public school whereas consenting private interests underwrite the for-profits.


The Point
_______

Your head.
 
How is RVU doing? Did it's first class graduate yet?

IIRC, it's first class is now M3. According to a medical director I know that has been watching them closely (as they want his hospital to take on their M4s), their students (those who took it) scored around the 75th percentile of DO students nationally on Step 1 and right around the 50th compared to MD students.
 
IIRC, it's first class is now M3. According to a medical director I know that has been watching them closely (as they want his hospital to take on their M4s), their students (those who took it) scored around the 75th percentile of DO students nationally on Step 1 and right around the 50th compared to MD students.

I have my doubts about those statistics.
 
What I love about some of you kids is that you think that just because your state institution is "public" that it somehow means they don't have a profit motive at all. Having served on the Board of a major state public institution, I can absolutely guarantee that the exact opposite is true. The difference between so-called public schools and for-profit schools is that public schools are beholden to unions and political hacks whereas the for-profit schools are beholden to bond holders and other private investors. On the other hand, we all (the taxpayers amongst us anyway) underwrite the failed and inefficient public school whereas consenting private interests underwrite the for-profits.

For profit colleges are more efficient? Mind backing that statement up.
 
IIRC, it's first class is now M3. According to a medical director I know that has been watching them closely (as they want his hospital to take on their M4s), their students (those who took it) scored around the 75th percentile of DO students nationally on Step 1 and right around the 50th compared to MD students.

??? From what I've read in the RVU thread in the osteo thread, I thought it was 86% passed first time and that number pertains only to the top 85% of students measured via GPA. Average pass rate for DO schools is usually high 80's, so RVU is not only below average (understandable for a new class) but RVU could theoretically have a low 70's pass rate (also understandable for a new class). I may be off and am not trying to diss a school, just correct a misconception. If someone has better info than I, please post, as the for profit model is something I want to learn more about.
 
??? From what I've read in the RVU thread in the osteo thread, I thought it was 86% passed first time and that number pertains only to the top 85% of students measured via GPA. Average pass rate for DO schools is usually high 80's, so RVU is not only below average (understandable for a new class) but RVU could theoretically have a low 70's pass rate (also understandable for a new class). I may be off and am not trying to diss a school, just correct a misconception. If someone has better info than I, please post, as the for profit model is something I want to learn more about.


Also, 50th percentile on step 1 is what now? 225? So nearly half the class is up in the 230s or higher? I'm going to sound like an ******* here, but if you're the type who can score that high, you're probably not the type to be at a school like RV.
 
Hopefully, graduates of these schools will be seen in the same light as graduates of for-profit universities are generally seen.

Or, hopefully, it never gets off the ground.
 
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Hopefully, graduates of these schools will be seen in the same light as graduates of for-profit universities are generally seen.

Or, hopefully, it never gets off the ground.

I hope for the latter, but if that doesn't happen, students who choose to attend a place like this made their own bed. They can sleep in it.
 
As a student at one of Florida's institutions for higher education I personally hope this NEVER gets off the ground for the sake of the students.

Just from my own experience, I feel that many of my peers undertaking the premedical curriculum who plan to apply will consider this school in the same light as UMiami and will not understand what it means that it is a for profit school. Floridian premeds are highly, highly, highly encouraged to stay in their own state for med school (for obvious reasons). But since this school is not in the Caribbean they might consider it 'safe' and not actually grasp that it is the same model as a Caribbean school.

I personally would never go to a for-profit school of any sort.
 
Hopefully, graduates of these schools will be seen in the same light as graduates of for-profit universities are generally seen.

Or, hopefully, it never gets off the ground.

in order for it to succeed, it couldn't be seen in the same light as other for-profits. the LCME will see to that. they have too much of a vested interest in protecting the medical "brand" to allow that to happen. if they get accreditation, they'd have to be convincing enough to be no different than a Commonwealth or a TT Foster, and, given the constraints that their for-profit business model will bring, i don't see how that's possible.

if i fill out the paperwork, say that i'm pursuing a state charter, otherwise make myself look really serious about starting Gravitywave's Medical Education Emporium, and pony up my $25k to the LCME, I too can have "Applicant School" status. I don't think it takes much.

As a student at one of Florida's institutions for higher education I personally hope this NEVER gets off the ground for the sake of the students.

Just from my own experience, I feel that many of my peers undertaking the premedical curriculum who plan to apply will consider this school in the same light as UMiami and will not understand what it means that it is a for profit school. Floridian premeds are highly, highly, highly encouraged to stay in their own state for med school (for obvious reasons). But since this school is not in the Caribbean they might consider it 'safe' and not actually grasp that it is the same model as a Caribbean school.

I personally would never go to a for-profit school of any sort.

it couldn't be a Caribbean model school and get LCME accreditation. they'd have to be able to profit without collecting tuition from 2,000+ students a year and then failing two-thirds of them out. it's extremely expensive to train US medical students, on the order of $100k+ per student, per year.
 
wow this is interesting. so overall, "getting in" will become easier for FL instates due to FIU, FAU and Palm beach?

Now one of premed girls who skips class for road trip stuff tells me "everyone will get in somewhere. right?" may come true?
 
Martinez said the number of applicants applying to medical schools in Florida far outnumbers those accepted.

No way, someone confirm this please? 😱
 
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LCME has deemed that the school meets the basic eligibility requirements to apply for accreditation.

5232273093


http://www.lcme.org/newschoolprocess.htm