new/not-yet-accredited programs

[frenchymmd]

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The university I am currently at just started their PhD of psychology program this year. The website says that they are hoping to receive accredation(sp) from the APA in 3-5 years.

I would be applying to the program for enrollment 4 years after they began the program, so they will either be newly accredited or not-yet accredited.

Do you think this will make it an easier program to get into? How does attending a program that has not yet been accredited (but hopefully will be by the time I graduate from it) affect my future career?

Since I need to stay in the same area, this program is probably my only option unless I get my masters instead.

 

[RayneeDeigh]

Tough question. It's really subjective but I'll tell you my thoughts on this.

A website saying they hope to get accreditation really means nothing. Lots of schools "hope to" do something but never do. Going into a program that isn't yet accredited when you know you want to be in an accredited program eventually is a big gamble.

I do understand wanting to stay in the same area but I also know that for most people who want to be in a PhD program, this isn't realistic. It's 4-5 years... you may have to weigh the pros and cons and think about looking in other cities, maybe ones nearby.

Unless you're cool with un-accredited programs. I'm just saying don't bank on one BECOMING accredited while you're there.

 

[empathiosis]

Do you think this will make it an easier program to get into? How does attending a program that has not yet been accredited (but hopefully will be by the time I graduate from it) affect my future career?

Since I need to stay in the same area, this program is probably my only option unless I get my masters instead.

Unaccredited programs tend to be easier to get into because they get fewer applications. But graduating from an unaccredited program can cause all kinds of problems. First, you will probably not get the best pick of internships and if you don't get a top-notch internship you'll be at a disadvantage on the job market. Also, you might want to research licensing requirements in your state. Although most states don't actually require APA accreditation, you want to be sure that your state isn't one of those.

I have considered applying to an unaccredited program, at the University of Chicago because it sounds like such an excellent program. I decided against it because it's just too risky. If you really can't move, you might want to consider the Fielding Institute program. It's APA accredited but mostly online. Just google it.

 

[Ollie123]

Very tough.

Is being tied to this location a temporary thing or a permanent thing? If its temporary (even as long as say, 5 years), I personally would MUCH rather wait and attend an accredited school than go unaccredited for the convenience. That doesn't mean its the best choice for someone else though, its just what I would do. Alot also depends on your career goals. Chances are I'd never get a tenure-track job at the kind of schools I want to teach at with an unaccredited degree, but community colleges and the like probably wouldn't care.

 

[frenchymmd]

Also, you might want to research licensing requirements in your state. Although most states don't actually require APA accreditation, you want to be sure that your state isn't one of those.

If you really can't move, you might want to consider the Fielding Institute program. It's APA accredited but mostly online.

Do you have a site that has licensing requirements in each state? Is it on the APA's website? I can't seem to find it.
Also, regarding the Fielding Institute program, even though it is APA accredited, will employers look down on the fact that it is an online program (and see it as less "legit")?
Thanks

Very tough.

Is being tied to this location a temporary thing or a permanent thing?

Although it could change in the future, I would say that it will never be our first choice. My husband's job is here and a transfer is unlikely. We also have a child (and will probably have another before I enroll in a PhD program) so uprooting them will be hard. Also the fact that our family is near by to help out with the kid(s) will be extremely helpful in juggling graduate work with family life. Moving is always a consideration, but it would be a VERY tough move.

I do see your point about how it would affect my career path. It's definitely something to consider. Not much point in spending 5+ years getting your PhD if you can't really do what you want, right?

 

[deleted176373]

The university I am currently at just started their PhD of psychology program this year. The website says that they are hoping to receive accredation(sp) from the APA in 3-5 years.

I would be applying to the program for enrollment 4 years after they began the program, so they will either be newly accredited or not-yet accredited.

Do you think this will make it an easier program to get into? How does attending a program that has not yet been accredited (but hopefully will be by the time I graduate from it) affect my future career?

Since I need to stay in the same area, this program is probably my only option unless I get my masters instead.

If you can get full funding and it's a solid university, I would go for it. As the likelihood of a solid university not get accredited is fairly low I would think... If it's fully funded and regionally accredited your not in an horrible position either way... It really depends on the school. If it was an Ivy or major state university, I wouldn't give it a second thought. If it was DeVry/Keller, I would be awfully skeptical.

Look at the program carefully, this could go either way... Since this is your only option, I don't see where you have much choice. Ask them when they have their site visits from APA are scheduled.

Mark

 

[RayneeDeigh]

It might help us if you told us which school it was, as there's a wide range of experience on the board.

I know it isn't optimal but there are people on this board too who have spouses and children and have moved away for grad school. Definitely NOT the easiest decision in the world but people are doing it.

 

[frenchymmd]

If you can get full funding and it's a solid university, I would go for it.

When you say full funding, do you mean personal funding (as in my tuition, etc paid for) or are you talking about the program being funded? How do I find out if/how the program is funded?

It's a state school. I would say that (in my opinion) it would be considered a solid university. We have a med school and a pharm school here (obviously both accredited). I definitely wouldn't conisder this a mediocre school by any means.

Does anyone know where I can look to see if their masters in psych is accredited?

 

[frenchymmd]

It might help us if you told us which school it was, as there's a wide range of experience on the board.

Its East Tennesse State University. www.etsu.edu

 

[Ollie123]

In that case I'm torn between two suggestions.

You could wait a few years to see if they obtain accreditation before applying, or you could apply now and take a gamble. This is, of course, assuming you have some sense of what you want your career trajectory to be and this is an important decision.

The upside to waiting is you'll know what you're getting into. The downside is that chances of getting accepted when only applying to one school are very, very small unless you're one of the superhero applicants with a cure for cancer on your CV, so it might be worthwhile to capitalize on the lower number of applicants while it is still unaccredited. So I guess another question is, what kind of candidate are you? If you're a 4.0/1600 GRE/years of research experience with multiple publications kind of applicant, you might want to wait. If you have a 3.5 and only spent a semester or two as an RA, it might be worth it to give stronger consideration to applying now while chances of acceptance are probably somewhat higher.

I think Mark meant if the school pays your tuition and pays you to attend (which is the norm for the vast majority of quality PhD programs), though obviously department funding is a concern as well, and difficult to find out about unless you know someone in the "inner circle" so to speak.

 

[frenchymmd]

Thanks Ollie. I do know that if i work as GA, my tuition and fees are more than paid for.

I think i mentioned this above, but I'm not yet in a position to apply since I've not completed my BS yet (and i'm not yet to my senior year). I currently have a 3.9 (actually a 4.0 with the exception of 2 classes my first semester) and not to jinx myself, but I'm fairly confident about the GRE.
I guess I need to speak to my advisor about starting as a RA. I'm also hoping to get an internship at the local mental hospital in the fall.

I just noticed this on the department website " When accreditation is obtained, it is retro active, meaning that all students who have finished the program during the documentation period or who are matriculating in the program may legitimately claim the APA-approved program status on their vitae." I know that someone said not to bank on it becoming accredited, but I do consider this to be good news. I think i'm reading this correctly. Does this mean that if i graduated and a year later they obtaied accreditation, I would be able to say I graduated from an accredited program?

 

[Quynh2007]

I know it is very difficult to make these type of decisions. But, I feel that you really are at a disadvantage not only because it is not accredited, but you may be forced to based your interests on what the professors are doing at ETSU and not what you are interested. I know it may be about 1.5 hours away from UTK but you should try to look into nearby schools. It will only be about the first 2 years that you will be making a lot of sacrifices to be at the school nearly weekday. By the time you start doing practicum and working on your dissertation, you could do a lot of that near your home, and maybe only have to come in to the school once or twice a week.

hopefully by the time you apply, there will be a handful of students that you could ask them how they feel about whether the school would get accredited soon, the supervision, etc. Unfortunately, at that time, it would still be too early to know how the school does with regards to rates for getting into internships.

 

[frenchymmd]

Just out of curiosity, since the program is not yet accredited, how does that affect the current students that are applying for internships? Obviously they are less "attractive" applicants, but are they even eligible for APA-accredited internships? (obviously i'm a little new to this)

UTK is certainly an option. I could also attempt to find a job after I finish my BS, work on research etc. in the mean time, and apply to ETSU's program when I feel that it's more promising.

Quynh--can you elaborate more on what you said about having to focus on the professor's interest rather than my own? Are you referring to research, practicums, and the like or the courses that are offered in general?

 

[Quynh2007]

i'm not too sure about the internship questions, hopefully someone can answer that, but with regards to research interest, one of the most important thing about fit in a school is how well your research interests line up w/the professors. If you are interested in ADHD, but there isn't a POI who is doing that type of research, you'll have to modify your research interests to fit them so that you can get in. It's hard enough to get in with having an interest that matches with the profs, it's nearly impossible if you don't have similar interests.

 

[layleh]

The university I am currently at just started their PhD of psychology program this year. The website says that they are hoping to receive accredation(sp) from the APA in 3-5 years.

I would be applying to the program for enrollment 4 years after they began the program, so they will either be newly accredited or not-yet accredited.

Do you think this will make it an easier program to get into? How does attending a program that has not yet been accredited (but hopefully will be by the time I graduate from it) affect my future career?

Since I need to stay in the same area, this program is probably my only option unless I get my masters instead.

I work at the APA, but I am not in the accred. department nor privy to information about who is up for review right now because it is the whole process is considered confidential. You asked whether the school would be easier to get into...APA's graduate school directory book lists the application/acceptance rates if your school website does not. With the creds you listed, I think you might be selling yourself short by not applying to some already established, accredited programs just in case (though, I understand you need to stay in the area you are in). There is no guarantee that a school will get accredited in a certain time frame (if at all). You can either go for it, go for the masters while waiting for the program to become accredited, or try the Fielding online program. The choice is yours.

Anyway, what I can say is that the 3-5 year time frame the schools sometimes give you can be slightly misleading at times. For example, Harvard's Clinical program said they would have been able to first apply in 2005; however, it is now 2008 and they are still not accredited. I think it's safe to say they'll get the nod someday, and I would feel pretty confident in the school you want to apply to...maybe just not within the time frame they give.

Hope that all made sense-I'm running on very little sleep. I wish you the best of luck in your decision!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I just noticed this on the department website " When accreditation is obtained, it is retro active, meaning that all students who have finished the program during the documentation period or who are matriculating in the program may legitimately claim the APA-approved program status on their vitae." I know that someone said not to bank on it becoming accredited, but I do consider this to be good news. I think i'm reading this correctly. Does this mean that if i graduated and a year later they obtaied accreditation, I would be able to say I graduated from an accredited program?

Accreditation can take multiple years, and typically they require at least one full class to go through the program before it can be accredited (the APA wants to see that people can get through the program, it meets the requirements, etc).

I don't want to speculate on if you'd get it or not, that is probably a question for the APA, you could probably drop an e-mail to them.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Just out of curiosity, since the program is not yet accredited, how does that affect the current students that are applying for internships? Obviously they are less "attractive" applicants, but are they even eligible for APA-accredited internships? (obviously i'm a little new to this)

An APA-accredited internship site can take whomever they like, they typically list if they are open to non-APA accredited programs (at APPIC.ORG's "Online Directory). It seems that most sites require an APA-accredited program, but some sites list it as 'preferred' and instead require a regional/state accreditation.

Also, there are internship sites that are APPIC accredited (seen as second tier to APA, but that doesn't mean they aren't a quality site, they just didn't go through the APA review process), and then other internship sites that are neither....but still available, though many programs don't allow their students to apply/attend those sites.

So you can go to a non-APA-accredited program and still get an internship, licensed, etc....it just tends to be a hassle, as you have to jump through hoops at each step and prove your training, hours, etc. (There have been some threads about this, search for Capella and APA accreditation). Check each state, as there are some state licensing boards that REQUIRE an APA-accredited program for licensure.

You can also go to an APA-accredited program and then go to a non-APA-accredited internship program. That is slightly less complicated, but still a PITA because you have to prove your hours to the state licensing board, etc.

In general, you want to go to APA-accredited programs/sites all the way through, as that is the standard. People still get through on the paths listed above, it is just a bit more work, and you will be a lot less competitive on the market. If you just want to do private practice, that is one thing...but it can be an albatross if you want to go into academia, state, federal, hospital, etc setting. I think the VA require APA-accreditation for applicants, but other places may overlook it, YMMV.

-t

 

[empathiosis]

Here's the Tennessee Board of Psychology:
http://health.state.tn.us/Boards/Psychology/index.htm

Click on Rules and Regulations to see licensure requirements.

For other states, look here:
http://www.uky.edu/Education/EDP/psyinfo2.html

and also here:
http://www.asppb.org/students/default.aspx

It sounds like you really need to stay where you are and that will limit you throughout. If I were you I'd apply to Fielding and UTK (which has a great program) just to get a sense of what other programs are like. I think you'd have less trouble with people looking down on Fielding, which is accredited, than on an unaccredited program. But again, you will still be able to practice, you'll just have to jump through extra hoops to do so.

 

[JackD]

I want to go ahead and play advocate for the other side of this debate (hang around for a few days and someone will start it again). I'm not a graduate student, i'm probably where you are in college right now. I have done research on the APA accreditation issue, including talking to the fine folks here. What APA accreditation boils down to is that it is very desirable to have an APA accredited degree but not 100% necessary. If you are in a situation where you have to choose between on that is accredited and one that isn't, go for the accredited one. With that said, if you end up in a situation where you are a doctor of clinical psychology(i assume that is the degree you are after) without an APA accredited degree, you'll live. You aren't going to be living in a box on the streets begging for change.

You will be limited in what you can do, this is true. However, you won't be stuck in some god awful job where you make $8 an hour because you can't find anywhere else to work. What i have found is that you would be able to get licensed (assuming this degree you are looking at is licensable and you passed the test) in 41 states. You would be shut out of the more desirable states in our Union, like California, Illinois, New York but you would have quite a few options, clearly. Then again, you also have to wonder how many states would accept it in say, 20 years?

You would also be limited in some things that you could do. The government wouldn't want you, which as stated pretty much means not being able to work at the VA or at a major university. Still you could work in a hospital, a mental hospital, private practice. What has been said is largely correct. There would be hurdles along the way. It might be harder to get into an internship, it might be harder to get licensed and to get a job but probably not drastically harder. You probably wouldn't spend years looking for your first job or earn next to nothing. As you were trying to get established, you would probably have a harder time but not so hard that you should say "i guess i will just see where my bachelors takes me."

With all that in mind, I would say earning a non-apa accredited doctorate in clinical psychology would leave you in a better situation than just stopping after you earn your BS in psychology. Earning the advanced degree would cost you about $85,000-$95,000 but in the end, it would in almost every case be worth going for it, than just doing nothing at all after your tenure as an undergrad is over.

So again, go for the APA accredited degree if you can, it is definitely worth it, but if you find yourself in a situation where you can only earn the non-apa degree, then it would be better than just stopping after four years and giving up on your dreams.

 

[WaitingKills]

As for a school that's not yet accreditted yet, I would prob say if the school's got a good reputation, it'll probably get accreditted. I mean, if they are wanting to get accreditted, they are probably going to do everything in their power to get the initial accreditation right. They aren't going to want to waste their time, money or reputation on being turned down. I would also keep in mind though that things happen, and how are you going to feel, and fair in the field, if something happens and they don't get accreditted. Might be a smart move to talk with the DCT at the school when you are applying to see where they are standing with the process.


I am in a similar, but different, position. I'm applying to a school this year that just got their accreditation last year. The school isn't well known (from my people anyway) and it has no real reputation yet. I am a total defeatist at this point and am convinced that it is prob the only school that will look at me right now (saving myself the heartache of being turned down, it'll be a bigger party if I do get accepted somewhere). I'm pretty sure I'll accept an offer if given one from this school, if it's my only option, but I don't know how I'd fair in the job market after I graduate.

Does anyone have experience with this or know the politics surrounding newly accreditted programs that aren't well known?