New to Sdn. Please advise me on my case!

[SmBiz2Med]

Hi,

I'll just get into it:
I went to UC Berkeley and received a non-science gpa of 2.65 (science gpa is 2.6). I did some research (on and off for 3 years) but didn't get authorship on anything. After school, I have been working at a startup/small business in tech and currently work in business development. I haven't taken my mcat yet. I am 24. I am not a minority in CA, the state where I live. Hmm what else..
I guess I'm looking for a post-bac program to apply into. I will not go overseas. I have saved some money and will be able to fund a post-bac but would like to avoid "cash cows". I am willing to move to other states however.
Lastly, as many others here, medicine is my dream career. After spending a year in the real world and working in business, I've never been more motivated to strive after med. any advice would help. Thanks in advance!

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[MedPR]

Hi,

I'll just get into it:
I went to UC Berkeley and received a non-science gpa of 2.65 (science gpa is 2.6). I did some research (on and off for 3 years) but didn't get authorship on anything. After school, I have been working at a startup/small business in tech and currently work in business development. I haven't taken my mcat yet. I am 24. I am not a minority in CA, the state where I live. Hmm what else..
I guess I'm looking for a post-bac program to apply into. I will not go overseas. I have saved some money and will be able to fund a post-bac but would like to avoid "cash cows". I am willing to move to other states however.
Lastly, as many others here, medicine is my dream career. After spending a year in the real world and working in business, I've never been more motivated to strive after med. any advice would help. Thanks in advance!

I had a 2.65sGPA. I retook 18 science credits of C or less and also added 12 new science credits. Got A's in all of the new classes and my ACOMAS (DO) sGPA is now a 3.20. I did this over the course of 3 semesters (summer, fall, spring). I suggest you look into grade replacement before trying an SMP. You probably won't get into an SMP with a 2.65 anyway. I didn't do much research on them, but I saw that most of them required at least a 3.0 GPA for admission. Hence doing my own post-bacc and taking selected classes.

Go to a state school if you can afford it, CC if not.

 

[cnhampton]

Before you start looking at official post-bac's or SMP's, you need to figure out why your grades were what they were. We've all got our reasons for what happened before (I certainly do), but it's important to be able to demonstrate to a school that you have your stuff together and are a capable and qualified applicant. For people like you and me, that means that there is zero room for further error. Others better qualified than I will certainly chime in, but I would imagine that you are going to have to do a couple of years of unofficial post-bac classes before a SMP will take you on. This is actually fortunate, in that it gives you time to build up all the other parts of your application resume - volunteering, shadowing, possibly getting a publication out of that research, etc, as well as more time to practice and do very well on the MCAT.

You are likely looking at only being competitive at DO schools - again, just like me. These schools have the applicants advantage of looking at the most recent grade if you retake a class you did poorly in when calculating your GPA. This means, C's and lower = retakes. So, start by evaluating what classes you are going to need to retake, and go slowly at first. Just take (for example) general chemistry this fall. Keep working, and start picking up some volunteer hours somewhere.

You've got a long haul in front of you. My advice is start slowly and deliberately. Don't quit your job to jump on an overly ambitious redemption campaign all in one go. You must be absolutely perfect from here forward if you want any chance at all.

 

[SmBiz2Med]

I had a 2.65sGPA. I retook 18 science credits of C or less and also added 12 new science credits. Got A's in all of the new classes and my ACOMAS (DO) sGPA is now a 3.20. I did this over the course of 3 semesters (summer, fall, spring). I suggest you look into grade replacement before trying an SMP. You probably won't get into an SMP with a 2.65 anyway. I didn't do much research on them, but I saw that most of them required at least a 3.0 GPA for admission. Hence doing my own post-bacc and taking selected classes.

Go to a state school if you can afford it, CC if not.

Appreciate the advice! I know someone who did a similar thing for pre-dental. Personally, this approach appeals to me because I can live at home and save money. Also, pretty awesome you've done that much over that that time period. I would like to know how do med schools look at retaking classes versus doing a post-bac?

 

[SmBiz2Med]

Before you start looking at official post-bac's or SMP's, you need to figure out why your grades were what they were. We've all got our reasons for what happened before (I certainly do), but it's important to be able to demonstrate to a school that you have your stuff together and are a capable and qualified applicant. For people like you and me, that means that there is zero room for further error. Others better qualified than I will certainly chime in, but I would imagine that you are going to have to do a couple of years of unofficial post-bac classes before a SMP will take you on. This is actually fortunate, in that it gives you time to build up all the other parts of your application resume - volunteering, shadowing, possibly getting a publication out of that research, etc, as well as more time to practice and do very well on the MCAT.

You are likely looking at only being competitive at DO schools - again, just like me. These schools have the applicants advantage of looking at the most recent grade if you retake a class you did poorly in when calculating your GPA. This means, C's and lower = retakes. So, start by evaluating what classes you are going to need to retake, and go slowly at first. Just take (for example) general chemistry this fall. Keep working, and start picking up some volunteer hours somewhere.

You've got a long haul in front of you. My advice is start slowly and deliberately. Don't quit your job to jump on an overly ambitious redemption campaign all in one go. You must be absolutely perfect from here forward if you want any chance at all.

Wow. That's the brutal truth. Going forward and being perfect is an uphill battle. At the same time, I'm sure the kind of deliberate effort required to be that will only push and hone people in our position to be as good as they can be. One question, MD programs don't look at retakes?

As far as why I didn't preform in college, it was mostly because of being burnt out and simply not working hard enough. I have a diagnosed learning disorder and I didn't take advantage of resources available because I was stubborn. Still, I excelled in classes in high school like ap bio and ap chem but didnt in similar classes in college. At this point in my life, I know myself better. I will seek resources and make sure I make the appropriate sacrifices to succeed.

 

[cnhampton]

First, let me say, I'm not trying to be brutal or mean. I'm in very similar shape personally, though quite a bit older than you are. Talking to others that are in this boat sort of helps me clarify my situation and crystallize what it is that I am doing and how to make it really happen. But, honesty is what I have been needing, and what I have most appreciated from the people on this forum. The information here is not always 100%, and it's entirely on the individual applicant to make sure that everything they have and are doing is on the level and correct - but it's an excellent starting point.

To the transcript issues, MD programs look at the entire transcript, and do not replace grades on the transcripts. If you got a D the first time around, and a B the second time, both grades count. If you can pull your GPA up to a point where you don't get automatically screened out and manage to swing an interview, you may be able to explain what happened, what changed, etc, but the history is still there. The principle difference here with MD vs DO schools, is that while the entire transcript is viewed by both schools, for GPA calculation, the DO's replace the older grade with the newer. You will still likely have to explain "what happened," but at least you are more likely to get the opportunity with DO's.

 

[MedPR]

Appreciate the advice! I know someone who did a similar thing for pre-dental. Personally, this approach appeals to me because I can live at home and save money. Also, pretty awesome you've done that much over that that time period. I would like to know how do med schools look at retaking classes versus doing a post-bac?

I'm sure a formal post-bacc is better, but it just wasn't worth the money to me. I want to get in anywhere and I think my retaking/adding new classes will be enough to accomplish that goal.

 

[mehc012]

it's important to be able to demonstrate to a school that you have your stuff together and are a capable and qualified applicant.

I've been wondering about this...are we expected to 'explain' our prior low grades? I don't want to make excuses, and I don't particularly want to share some of my reasons with an admissions officer. If I don't bring it up, will they ask me about it, or is it just a non-issue?

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I've been wondering about this...are we expected to 'explain' our prior low grades? I don't want to make excuses, and I don't particularly want to share some of my reasons with an admissions officer. If I don't bring it up, will they ask me about it, or is it just a non-issue?

I think I've read in a few threads that you get asked about every bad grade on your transcript, but I'd love to hear confirmation of that.

 

[mehc012]

So it's more of an interview issue than an application issue?

 

[notbobtrustme]

So it's more of an interview issue than an application issue?

It's both. Your application is likely to get auto-screened by MD schools until you hit that 3.0 marker. That is, no human eyes will ever see your application because it'll simply get deleted/filtered. Even if it makes past that stage, you are competing against literally thousands of applicants with GPAs of 3.5+ for 200-300 spots in an incoming MD class. A low GPA is a tough sell to most schools. Your best hope is a killer MCAT (34+), compelling ECs and a good story so that your application stands out even with the GPA drag. And that's the best case scenario. In most cases, even these plusses won't overcome a bad GPA.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart above lays out in pretty clear terms of what to expect for GPA/MCAT. Across all MCAT scores with a GPA between 2.6 and 2.8, there was a 10% chance to be accepted. Chances are that those students were under-represented minorities, who have more lenient acceptance standards than white/asian students.

DO schools are more lenient; I haven't heard any DO school auto-screening applicants with respect to GPA/MCAT. As others have said, DO schools allow for grade replacement and they are less competitive overall. A 3.4/27 is very competitive for DO schools while that is a below average applicant for MD schools.

 

[mehc012]

I'm not horribly off; mine is more of a 'trend' issue than a numbers issue. I have a 3.2 coming out of a really good college, and plan on taking classes from a 4-yr college to bring it up to a 3.4 for the app. If they're not looking for specifics I can say that my issue was never learning the material, but rather time management, and then point to post-grad as evidence that I have solved those. I'm hoping that completing courses while holding a full-time research job and volunteering should demonstrate that.

If they want specifics, well...things happen, and sometimes you don't get to finish any of your final projects/exams in a semester.

 

[MedPR]

It's both. Your application is likely to get auto-screened by MD schools until you hit that 3.0 marker. That is, no human eyes will ever see your application because it'll simply get deleted/filtered. Even if it makes past that stage, you are competing against literally thousands of applicants with GPAs of 3.5+ for 200-300 spots in an incoming MD class. A low GPA is a tough sell to most schools. Your best hope is a killer MCAT (34+), compelling ECs and a good story so that your application stands out even with the GPA drag. And that's the best case scenario. In most cases, even these plusses won't overcome a bad GPA.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

This chart above lays out in pretty clear terms of what to expect for GPA/MCAT. Across all MCAT scores with a GPA between 2.6 and 2.8, there was a 10% chance to be accepted. Chances are that those students were under-represented minorities, who have more lenient acceptance standards than white/asian students.

DO schools are more lenient; I haven't heard any DO school auto-screening applicants with respect to GPA/MCAT. As others have said, DO schools allow for grade replacement and they are less competitive overall. A 3.4/27 is very competitive for DO schools while that is a below average applicant for MD schools.

KCUMB = 3.25/3.25/23 and nothing less than a 7.

 

[notbobtrustme]

KCUMB = 3.25/3.25/23 and nothing less than a 7.

Wow, that's pretty crazy. Most MD schools don't auto screen anything greater than a 3.0. Of course that doesn't say anything about interview invites.

 

[Courtjester8]

This is all highly subjective. There are MD schools that are known to be a little more lax in their admissions policies whereas others are not. my undergrad GPA was a 2.9, I pulled a 3.9 postbac which took my cGPA to a 3.2 and sGPA to a 3.4 and I already have an interview invite to a top 20 MD school. Don't start closing doors before you find yourself through the majority of your classes so you have actual information to base these decisions on. Take everything one step at a time preparing for both successes and failures along the way. Also, from what I've gathered from people in admissions (because they'll actually talk to you about this stuff if you set up an appointment outside of application season) is that a one year graduate program can do wonders to remove any doubts created from an otherwise lackluster undergraduate performance assuming you perform admirably. This would be after you clean up your pre req grades of course but its good to keep in mind. But, I would definitely make a couple calls to some adcoms to get advice from the people who matter (again, not during the busy months of application season). I had a couple people sit down and talk me through what to do during phone conversations that lasted over an hour. As much as we all would like to think we're pros at this, most of us aren't. Best to go to the source for your advice.

-cj8