Newbie.... Apply/Not Apply---Masters/Post-Bac

[want to drill]

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A friend of mine told me to ask my questions here since there is usually pretty good advice given. Here it goes...

I am going to graduate in May and am debating on whether or not to apply this time around, or wait. I have a SGPA of 3.0, overall 3.4, DAT scores AA19, TS19, PAT19. Lots of EC's, volunteer hours, and bilingual. I am a non-trad student and have worked full-time during my entire college experience. I'm married with 3 kids.

I applied to d-school this past cycle and got an interview. Sadly I was shot down. I have a consultation with that school in May to find out why they reached that decision. (I am assuming it was my SGPA). I have yet to hear from about 4 east coast schools, but it's not looking good.

To avoid a gap year, I have applied to the Midwestern 9 month master's program in hopes that it will help my application. From what I understand, the program starts in August and they do quarters. By the time academic updates can occur, I would have at least one quarter of the masters program finished that I could use to update my grades. Can a person apply to d-school during their masters program so that they don't have a gap year until d-school starts (assuming they get accepted to d-school)? I would obviously finish the master's program, but would schools even look at me if I only have 1/3 of the program finished?

Should I bag the masters program and just try and do upper division undergrad bio classes?

I realize my undergrad stats aren't stellar and a lot of that has to do with early college stupidity and some medical complications in my family. I am seeking advice from those who have been there/done that. As you can probably tell, I am a little bit older and am trying not to lose more time.

Thanks!

 

[doc toothache]

Will a post bac investment be of any value should you not be accepted to ds in the next go round?

 

[promolion]

Will a master help you get a job with a decent salary incase u dun get in? U can definitly go to ds after ur master without a gap

 

[want to drill]

Will a post bac investment be of any value should you not be accepted to ds in the next go round?

The post-bac would be for nothing more than to get my SGPA to an acceptable level to get into d-school. I will have all of the pre-reqs done upon graduation. If you are meaning will those classes help me get a job in case I don't get in this next round? I don't think so. I'm not aware of too many jobs that are specifically for a BS in Health Science Studies. At our school, it is mainly a pre-professional degree for pre-med/dental/PA/Chiro/Pod.....

What do you think doc toothache?

 

[want to drill]

Will a master help you get a job with a decent salary incase u dun get in? U can definitly go to ds after ur master without a gap

I suppose that I could possibly teach high school Biology or something with the masters degree, but I would rather slit my wrists!
I have viewed the masters as a means to an end. I am hoping that by completing it with a good GPA, it will get me in to dental school where I would like to be.
Should I apply during my master's degree I guess is what I am trying to figure out. Wait till I am done with the master's degree, or apply this June with not much a change in my GPA or other EC's and do an academic update once I have finished at least one quarter of the masters program?

 

[promolion]

Yea, a master looks good but not a guarantee ticket. I would try to apply anyway during the master because you got an interview, which means they like something. No apply=0%. Plus, even if you don't get in, applying the third year shows consistency and persistence. BTW, I know a friend that abandoned his master midway after getting into an optometry school. Kinda of a waste though. Good luck.

 

[dentalWorks]

A friend of mine told me to ask my questions here since there is usually pretty good advice given. Here it goes...

I am going to graduate in May and am debating on whether or not to apply this time around, or wait. I have a SGPA of 3.0, overall 3.4, DAT scores AA19, TS19, PAT19. Lots of EC's, volunteer hours, and bilingual. I am a non-trad student and have worked full-time during my entire college experience. I'm married with 3 kids.

I applied to d-school this past cycle and got an interview. Sadly I was shot down. I have a consultation with that school in May to find out why they reached that decision. (I am assuming it was my SGPA). I have yet to hear from about 4 east coast schools, but it's not looking good.

To avoid a gap year, I have applied to the Midwestern 9 month master's program in hopes that it will help my application. From what I understand, the program starts in August and they do quarters. By the time academic updates can occur, I would have at least one quarter of the masters program finished that I could use to update my grades. Can a person apply to d-school during their masters program so that they don't have a gap year until d-school starts (assuming they get accepted to d-school)? I would obviously finish the master's program, but would schools even look at me if I only have 1/3 of the program finished?

Should I bag the masters program and just try and do upper division undergrad bio classes?

I realize my undergrad stats aren't stellar and a lot of that has to do with early college stupidity and some medical complications in my family. I am seeking advice from those who have been there/done that. As you can probably tell, I am a little bit older and am trying not to lose more time.

Thanks!

Applying WHILE doing masters (or post-bacc) isn't very wise because it basically means you are going to apply with the same numbers as last year...

IMO, the undergrad GPA is more important than the graduate GPA. I bolded your best option above. If you do a 30-40 credit post-bacc with upper level sciences (assuming you rock it), it will seriously increase your chances for when you apply again in June of 2012 (you will need to take a whole year off to focus on post-bacc).

I don't agree with the doc's assessment about getting a possible job after masters. There are ALOT better degrees (engineering, computer sciences, computer systems, etc etc) and are struggling to land thier first job nowadays.... and getting a masters in some biology field is probably even more hopeless. Trust me, your main aim and concern SHOULD be that undergrad sGPA..... Fix that and should be all set.

 

[want to drill]

Applying WHILE doing masters (or post-bacc) isn't very wise because it basically means you are going to apply with the same numbers as last year...

IMO, the undergrad GPA is more important than the graduate GPA. I bolded your best option above. If you do a 30-40 credit post-bacc with upper level sciences (assuming you rock it), it will seriously increase your chances for when you apply again in June of 2012 (you will need to take a whole year off to focus on post-bacc).

I don't agree with the doc's assessment about getting a possible job after masters. There are ALOT better degrees (engineering, computer sciences, computer systems, etc etc) and are struggling to land thier first job nowadays.... and getting a masters in some biology field is probably even more hopeless. Trust me, your main aim and concern SHOULD be that undergrad sGPA..... Fix that and should be all set.

You really think adcomms will look more at an undergrad instead of a masters? Do the adcomms average the two GPA's together or look at them separately? I guess I assumed that post-bacc programs were for people who were doing a career change or hadn't yet completed the pre-reqs (g-chem/o-chem/physics/.....). It would definitely be cheaper to do a year of heavy undergrad work instead of the masters program, but I wonder how much it will change my GPA. I have a lot of credits so I kind of feel like it would have the same effect as throwing a pebble into a river. It's not going to raise the water level that much, kind of like my GPA. The clock is the enemy at this point in the game....

 

[want to drill]

Yea, a master looks good but not a guarantee ticket. I would try to apply anyway during the master because you got an interview, which means they like something. No apply=0%. Plus, even if you don't get in, applying the third year shows consistency and persistence. BTW, I know a friend that abandoned his master midway after getting into an optometry school. Kinda of a waste though. Good luck.

I have wondered the same thing as far as applying that many times. Do they really look at your app that much more if they see that you are applying for the third time? They may question if you are insane or not! lol By applying the second time, whenever that is, I am hoping that they will look at that favorably, but I have heard opinions going both ways on that topic too...

 

[MechZZ]

If you apply during the year of your Masters, you're going to be put on hold at every single dental school until December so they can see your fall grades.

Wait until you are done with your Masters. I think applying while you're in the middle of a M.S. is a waste of a lot of money.

 

[dentalWorks]

You really think adcomms will look more at an undergrad instead of a masters?

Yes I believe in that....

Do the adcomms average the two GPA's together or look at them separately?

Well, adcoms don't need to average the GPAs because addsas does that. It will give them a category for undergrad, then Masters, then everything combined. I STRONGLY believe DSs favor the undergrad GPA more so than any other category.

I guess I assumed that post-bacc programs were for people who were doing a career change or hadn't yet completed the pre-reqs (g-chem/o-chem/physics/.....).

You are confusing the concept of post-bacc.... First off, I am not referring to a formal post-bacc program, yes those are special programs to get people to take all the 100 & 200 pre-dent/pre-med courses with a few sprinkle of upper level stuffs.

What I am suggesting is for you to do an informal post-bacc when you simply enroll into any 4-year university as whatever major you choose, and just start enrolling into courses as you see fit.... You do not need to seek a degree, your only after the courses.

It would definitely be cheaper to do a year of heavy undergrad work instead of the masters program, but I wonder how much it will change my GPA. I have a lot of credits so I kind of feel like it would have the same effect as throwing a pebble into a river. It's not going to raise the water level that much, kind of like my GPA. The clock is the enemy at this point in the game....

This is the reason why I went after informal post-bacc. I was working fulltime as a software engineer, so I used to tailor my class schedule accordingly. And yes post-bacc credits are ALOT cheaper than masters credits.

Suppose right now you have 50 credits of sciences (just an example). If you take 40 more science credits and (for sake of easy math) you get a 4.0 in all.... Your new sGPA becomes 3.44 (huge jump).

I guarantee you right now, if you had 3.44 sGPA along with everything else, you'd have a MUCH better shot of landing interviews.

 

[amalgamgrillz]

You really think adcomms will look more at an undergrad instead of a masters? Do the adcomms average the two GPA's together or look at them separately? I guess I assumed that post-bacc programs were for people who were doing a career change or hadn't yet completed the pre-reqs (g-chem/o-chem/physics/.....). It would definitely be cheaper to do a year of heavy undergrad work instead of the masters program, but I wonder how much it will change my GPA. I have a lot of credits so I kind of feel like it would have the same effect as throwing a pebble into a river. It's not going to raise the water level that much, kind of like my GPA. The clock is the enemy at this point in the game....

If your GPA is so far in the shi*ter, then a master's might be a better option. For people who have 130hrs of a 2.5 GPA, it'll take forever to boost it to a 3.0..so they'd might as well do a master's, because it will raise your combined average the same amount as a post-bacc AND adcoms will see a 4.0 (hopefully) in the separate graduate column.

if you just do a post bacc, all they'll see is a low(er) GPA. Nothing will really stand out. Taking 50 credits of more undergrad, vs taking 50 credits of grad...i think the grad hours would look better

 

[want to drill]

If your GPA is so far in the shi*ter, then a master's might be a better option. For people who have 130hrs of a 2.5 GPA, it'll take forever to boost it to a 3.0..so they'd might as well do a master's, because it will raise your combined average the same amount as a post-bacc AND adcoms will see a 4.0 (hopefully) in the separate graduate column.

if you just do a post bacc, all they'll see is a low(er) GPA. Nothing will really stand out. Taking 50 credits of more undergrad, vs taking 50 credits of grad...i think the grad hours would look better

I have taken 179 total credits. Of those credits 102 are science credits. That's why I am trying to get some advice here. I kind of feel like it could go either way between the post-bacc and masters degree. I wouldn't be so concerned but the masters program at AZ is $32,000!

 

[want to drill]

I think you should do the masters program. I am a third year at Michigan Dental School, and there are several people in my class who began masters programs after being rejected the first time around. And yes, they applied again even though they were only a small way through their masters programs (and were accepted)! I'm not saying this will happen to you, but I'm saying that this strategy has worked well for other people. The masters is a great option because it gives you an advanced degree on the off chance that dental school doesn't end up working out. It commands the respect of admissions officers. It is much better than toiling endlessly trying to raise your GPA with more undergrad.

Do you know if any of them did the 9 month program at Midwestern AZ? I don't know how long they have been offering that program, but that is the program that I may end up doing. Depends on how my interview with them goes I guess. It's 45 credits but it's pretty spendy. It's a HUGE gamble. If it works out well then there would be no regrets. If it blows up in my face then that's a whole different ball game. I don't know how valuable a MA in Biomedical Sciences will be or how marketable it would be, especially in today's economy.

 

[dentalWorks]

I have taken 179 total credits. Of those credits 102 are science credits. That's why I am trying to get some advice here. I kind of feel like it could go either way between the post-bacc and masters degree. I wouldn't be so concerned but the masters program at AZ is $32,000!

ouch. Your gonna need like 60-80 post-bacc science credits to get that thing to a 3.3-3.4 (not even possible, there aren't that many biology courses to take).

Because both your GPA and sGPA are at or above 3.0... your best BET IMO (without dumping thousands of dollars into a "maybe-plan") is to ace the DAT. Retake DAT, and aim for 22+TS... this is a gamble too, because I don't believe strong DAT out-weights low sGPA, but its worth a shot, its a cheap way to boost yourself.