No clerkships without COT!?

[MaximusD]

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Why did no one tell me that I can't do military clerkships during 3rd and 4th year without having attended COT!? What an awful setup. There doesn't appear to be any breaks in my schedule to allow for COT without cutting into a 3rd-year core rotation.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Get clerkships in place. They pay you a little more to do what you were going to do anyway. Your only issue will be impressing the people who do the military match, but if you're not doing anything competitive you could still be all right.

 

[psychbender]

You can do COT at the very beginning (July) of your 4th year. You might be able to convince your school to let you burn an elective month, so you don't have to lose a vacation month doing this. I took Army OBC this past summer as such an "elective," and one of my friends did the same with COT. Then, you'll still be set up to do your Air Force clerkships.

You can also do NADT rotations at Air Force hospitals without going to COT if your school sets up a training agreement with that hospital.

 

[spicedmanna]

Why did no one tell me that I can't do military clerkships during 3rd and 4th year without having attended COT!? What an awful setup. There doesn't appear to be any breaks in my schedule to allow for COT without cutting into a 3rd-year core rotation.

Yeah, nobody told me about that, either. In fact, I questioned the deferment of COT until graduation, fearing something like this might occur, but nobody I talked to thought it would be an issue. Well, if what you say is true, then I'm up ****'s creak. I was counting on doing one ADT toward the end of third year and one at the beginning of fourth, setting me up well for the match. Guess that won't work now. 🙄 🙁 If I knew it was going to result in this, I would have chosen to miss the first week of school just so I could get COT out of the way.

I just contacted AFIT and asked them about all this. I'm curious what they have to say about it. In the meantime, I'm thinking that I don't want to interrupt board-study time to do COT this summer, so I may try to convince my school to let me use my only elective during third year to do COT, leaving me with one ADT at the beginning of fourth year before the match. This may work. Dissappointing, though. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to try to make it work. I'm really afraid that if I can't do an ADT at all before the match, then I won't be able do well in the match. I might take the suggestion to try to arrange some non-ADT USAF rotations... That might be the key. I don't care about the active-duty pay anyway, it's all about being in an Air Force rotation and making a good impression before the match.

 

[LauraDO]

Please keep us posted what you find out from AFIT, there is a chance I might not be able to do COT next summer so I would be interested....

 

[MaximusD]

Yeah, nobody told me about that, either. In fact, I questioned the deferment of COT until graduation, fearing something like this might occur, but nobody I talked to thought it would be an issue. Well, if what you say is true, then I'm up ****'s creak. I was counting on doing one ADT toward the end of third year and one at the beginning of fourth, setting me up well for the match. Guess that won't work now. 🙄 🙁 If I knew it was going to result in this, I would have chosen to miss the first week of school just so I could get COT out of the way.

I just contacted AFIT and asked them about all this. I'm curious what they have to say about it. In the meantime, I'm thinking that I don't want to interrupt board-study time to do COT this summer, so I may try to convince my school to let me use my only elective during third year to do COT, leaving me with one ADT at the beginning of fourth year before the match. This may work. Dissappointing, though. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to try to make it work. I'm really afraid that if I can't do an ADT at all before the match, then I won't be able do well in the match. I might take the suggestion to try to arrange some non-ADT USAF rotations... That might be the key. I don't care about the active-duty pay anyway, it's all about being in an Air Force rotation and making a good impression before the match.

I talked to a GME supervisor and my POC at AFIT. They both said I have to have COT to do rotations. Please let me know if you figure out something different as I always am willing to go over people's head or bypass them in parallel bureacra-mess

 

[Mike2010]

You can do a military rotation without COT/OBC, at least in the Army. I did my OBC but i know kids who didn't and you just have to take a school ADT for the specified dates you want to go and then pay your own way (ie you have to pay for your own flight and housing and such). I mean sure its not on record as you doing an ADT there and its more expensive but if its a site you are looking to go to the face time at the site matters more anyway. Talk to the DME directly or the med student coordinator, the DME will ultimately kick you down to the coordinator anyway, but being endorsed from above will slice through the weeds of Bureaucracy a bit. This is a fine line to walk, and requires some finesse , because the med student/residency coordinator has a lot of power over your destiny at that hospital, so you want to be on their good side and not make them feel like you've slighted them.

 

[Jolie South]

this is random, but it seems like taking it during med school would be easier anyways.

i can't imagine graduating, going through the stress of COT, and trying to figure out a move and all that for residency. a bunch of people i knew at COT were trying to arrange their moves and such from Maxwell. it sounded like a nightmare with all kinds of crazy travel restrictions and not knowing when the movers were coming or stuff was going to get to their base.

 

[MaximusD]

this is random, but it seems like taking it during med school would be easier anyways.

i can't imagine graduating, going through the stress of COT, and trying to figure out a move and all that for residency. a bunch of people i knew at COT were trying to arrange their moves and such from Maxwell. it sounded like a nightmare with all kinds of crazy travel restrictions and not knowing when the movers were coming or stuff was going to get to their base.

They want me to take my COT ADT starting the 26th of May. That means I'll get 2 weeks less to study for boards than everyone else. 2 weeks instead of 4. I read that you're allowed to swap 1 core rotation for a military rotation. So what I'm thinking is that I can do my "elective" block (wherever it may fall) for COT and then substitute a core rotation at a PCOM-affiliate with a core rotation at a AF medical center.

http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Policies_and_Procedures/policies_and_procedures.html

Military Clerkships - All students in the military may serve one (1) assigned core clerkship except the U-CHCC, R-CHCC, Advanced Clinical Skills or Cardiology per clinical year in the military. A copy of the military orders must be presented to the Director of Clinical Education for approval.

Going to see if this is feasible this upcoming week.

 

[Jolie South]

They want me to take my COT ADT starting the 26th of May. That means I'll get 2 weeks less to study for boards than everyone else. 2 weeks instead of 4. I read that you're allowed to swap 1 core rotation for a military rotation. So what I'm thinking is that I can do my "elective" block (wherever it may fall) for COT and then substitute a core rotation at a PCOM-affiliate with a core rotation at a AF medical center.

I see the dilemma. My school is a bit non-traditional and we're allowed to take boards when we want.

 

[MaximusD]

I see the dilemma. My school is a bit non-traditional and we're allowed to take boards when we want.

We can, too. However, there is a finite amount of step 1 COMLEX exams offered prior to the start of rotations. We are unable to rotate until we've passed Step 1. Because I'd be at COT, I'd have to take it sooner as compared to later. I think the last exam is offered the first week of June 09, and our classes "end" the first or second week of May. I'd have to take the COMLEX the third week of May to get it out of the way, because after I'd get back from a June COT I'd immediately have to do my next rotation for PCOM. Sorry if you understood this before I spelled it out... I have a bad habit of explaining things when the other person already understands.

 

[Jolie South]

We can, too. However, there is a finite amount of step 1 COMLEX exams offered prior to the start of rotations. We are unable to rotate until we've passed Step 1. Because I'd be at COT, I'd have to take it sooner as compared to later. I think the last exam is offered the first week of June 09, and our classes "end" the first or second week of May. I'd have to take the COMLEX the third week of May to get it out of the way, because after I'd get back from a June COT I'd immediately have to do my next rotation for PCOM. Sorry if you understood this before I spelled it out... I have a bad habit of explaining things when the other person already understands.

ahh ok. we only have 1.5 years preclinical and start rotations before Step I.

 

[LauraDO]

Any updates about this?

 

[spicedmanna]

Any updates about this?

Hey, Laura and others who are following this,

Sorry. I've been really busy. I'm getting slaughtered by school...I feel that it would be a miracle if I pass this section. Anyway, I did hear back from AFIT. Sadly, they confirmed that I wouldn't be able to do AD clerkships without COT and recommended that I do non-AD clerkships instead, which isn't all that different, except that I wouldn't get AD pay for them. The asst. program manager that I talked to recommended, however, that I take out "school orders" and get 45-days of AD pay right now, to sort of compensate, which is exactly what I did. At the end, should be the same.

 

[spicedmanna]

You can also do NADT rotations at Air Force hospitals without going to COT if your school sets up a training agreement with that hospital.

That's how I'm going to play it.

 

[spicedmanna]

Please keep us posted what you find out from AFIT, there is a chance I might not be able to do COT next summer so I would be interested....

If you can, do COT this summer. It'll save you a big headache.

Also, good luck with the rest of anatomy. I'm sure you get through just fine.