No invites since my Step 2 CS retake pass.

[texpsys]

The title says most of it. I am an AM MD Senior and I received a new CS grade of pass on Oct 10 previously failed. My Step 1: >245 and CK > 245, with 3 clerkship honors, no negative comments in my MSPE narrative. I only have 3 invites and all were in before my pass. I have sent letters and called the programs I am interested in, but have received nothing. I am very concerned that there is something else in my application that is negatively impacting my invitation status. Does anyone have any advice or recommendations? Thanks in advance.

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[LABrondo]

Yea a lot of programs said they won’t take anyone who failed CS.


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[Old&InTheWay]

How many programs did you apply to?
What types of programs did you apply to (i.e. community/academic, tier, etc.)?
Are they in places to which you have a connection?

 

[texpsys]

How many programs did you apply to?
What types of programs did you apply to (i.e. community/academic, tier, etc.)?
Are they in places to which you have a connection?

35+, with a mix of community and academic. I applied to a mix of tiers as well. I do not have a connection to any except for applying to all in my state and adjoining states.

 

[MedMan80]

Apply to more programs, maybe broaden to FM/IM

 

[Merely]

A USMD with scores of >245 is now getting advice to apply to IM as a backup to psych...what the **** is happening

 

[uhmocksuhsillen]

A USMD with scores of >245 is now getting advice to apply to IM as a backup to psych...what the **** is happening

I'm a DO with similar boards and 10+ interviews. I have a classmate who barely passed step 1 and has zero personality with six interviews. If things were seriously that competitive these two things wouldn't be happening.

I don't know what to make of it though I'll say that.

 

[TexasPhysician]

A USMD with scores of >245 is now getting advice to apply to IM as a backup to psych...what the **** is happening

Failed cs is a huge red flag in any field. A friend of mine 1 year above me failed cs and accidentally released the fail after getting 11 interviews in EM. Both steps >250. He barely matched at our home program, rank 11.

With a failed step, applications should include bottom 1/3 of competitive programs.

 

[splik]

You should have your mentor contact select programs (ideally ones they have contacts with) on your behalf. A failed CS is a kiss of death not remedied by a subsequent pass, and the best way to salvage it is to have someone in your corner urging others to look past it and extolling your other virtues

 

[rikudo]

A failed CS is a kiss of death not remedied by a subsequent pass

Is CS really weighed that heavily even after a pass? Don't many programs not even require it to rank?

 

[LABrondo]

Is CS really weighed that heavily even after a pass? Don't many programs not even require it to rank?

I called up over 60 programs and all but 2 said they needed it before rank deadline


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[MedMan80]

A USMD with scores of >245 is now getting advice to apply to IM as a backup to psych...what the **** is happening

I was not saying this lightly, but a failed CS in psych particularly can be indicative or poor language/communication skills and is more of a kiss of death vs a barely passing step; with a good pedigree and good step scores s/he would be more competitive in other fields i feel

 

[texpsys]

I was not saying this lightly, but a failed CS in psych particularly can be indicative or poor language/communication skills and is more of a kiss of death vs a barely passing step; with a good pedigree and good step scores s/he would be more competitive in other fields i feel

As the OP, I agree that a Step 2 CS fail may indicate to programs that I have poor language and communication skills. However, on CS the ICE component is what I failed, due to typing too long and florid notes. Two weeks after I received the fail I retook it (I was refreshing the sign up screen quite a bit) using more abbreviations which resulted in a much higher ICE. My CIS (Communication and Interpersonal Skills) category was off the chart. Unfortunately, it is difficult to convey this to PDs, since they cannot see the individual score breakdown for CS.

 

[Old&InTheWay]

I was not saying this lightly, but a failed CS in psych particularly can be indicative or poor language/communication skills and is more of a kiss of death vs a barely passing step; with a good pedigree and good step scores s/he would be more competitive in other fields i feel

I get it that programs need to use arbitrary measures to crate a more manageable pool of applicants, but I am surprised that anyone views CS as a relevant assessment of any real world ability. It doesn't test real skills or abilities; just requires that you go through the motions.

 

[texpsys]

In general--
We're willing to offer interviews if still waiting for CS--unless there's a failed CS already on the transcript.
We offer a few interviews without a CK score, if the Step 1 score indicates they're at least average-ly decent test takers. If there's a failure or a "barely passed" we'll wait and see.
Basically--show us the data.

If either Step 2 isn't passed by early February, your chances of getting ranked become miniscule.

Look at it this way--we're basically rewarding those who have done well, passed their tests, and gotten them in on time. Interviews are a scarce commodity--we're rationing them out to those most likely to complete the process, who will be someone we want to rank. You've got too understand that there are hundreds of complete, unambiguous applications in line ahead of yours. We'll give preference to the "sure thing" everytime.

I understand that you will give preference to a person who is a "sure thing" but how can I indicate to a program that I had a bad day on CS, and everything else looks good?​

 

[MedMan80]

I understand that you will give preference to a person who is a "sure thing" but how can I indicate to a program that I had a bad day on CS, and everything else looks good?​

Exactly how you explained it to us, the problem is that programs unfortunately get thousands of applications and need to filter people out and you would get caught in that filter. As mentioned above getting your mentors to reach out and get PD's to pull your app out of the pile may be a place to start.

 

[ridethecliche]

As the OP, I agree that a Step 2 CS fail may indicate to programs that I have poor language and communication skills. However, on CS the ICE component is what I failed, due to typing too long and florid notes. Two weeks after I received the fail I retook it (I was refreshing the sign up screen quite a bit) using more abbreviations which resulted in a much higher ICE. My CIS (Communication and Interpersonal Skills) category was off the chart. Unfortunately, it is difficult to convey this to PDs, since they cannot see the individual score breakdown for CS.

Send it to them?

 

[texpsys]

Send it to them?

I would be happy to, if the PDs on here or attendings on this forum think that it would be appropriate and not a nuisance. I have already written and called to other programs of interest.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I get it that programs need to use arbitrary measures to crate a more manageable pool of applicants, but I am surprised that anyone views CS as a relevant assessment of any real world ability. It doesn't test real skills or abilities; just requires that you go through the motions.

While we can argue merit all day, the perception is that cs is incredibly easy. It has a high pass rate of 97% and major components are people skills (vital in psych) and basic note writing. I couldn’t tell you by quick glance what each section in cs means. PD’s have many applications and they answer to the chair. If you are going to defend your decision, would you rather argue for the applicant who failed 1st semester anatomy or cs? Psych is going to lean toward anatomy being less vital. Radiology may look at it just the opposite.

The vast majority of good programs will not overlook a failed cs when there are ample “clean” applications. OP needs to put their application at programs that would be pleased to have a US MD. They exist, especially with a now passing cs.

 

[texpsys]

Thank you to everyone for their advice. I am disappointed that my bad day ruined my application, but I will continue pursuing psychiatry not give up, and hopefully match one of my current invitations and put this poor performance behind me. Thanks again

 

[MedMan80]

Thank you to everyone for their advice. I am disappointed that my bad day ruined my application, but I will continue pursuing psychiatry not give up, and hopefully match one of my current invitations and put this poor performance behind me. Thanks again

Best of luck to you, don’t take anything personally for it’s all a game, we’re trying to help you get into the mind of PD’s who have thousands of apps to go through and can easily filter out applicants. Seems you had a bad day, and passed shortly after, it happens but you need to get your foot in the door and communicate that clearly during your interviews.