No job during school and considering residency

[samisab786]

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I've written here before on how I could not find a job during pharmacy school. I'm a P4 now and really I think I've done the best I could since P1 year: I've asked my classmates and they were surprised that I've taken the same steps they have and have been so unsuccessful in my search. I've applied to several CVS stores, Rite-Aids, Walgreens, Stop & Shop, and Target, 4 different hospitals in my area, and one independent pharmacy. I've gotten an intern license of another state to expand my opportunities. I attended the job fairs during school and talked to the people there. I went to stores in person, made several phone calls, interviewed with district managers multiple times. I stopped looking at the end of Spring P3 semester after I recruiter told me herself I'll have no luck as a P4 finding jobs within her company, and probably have no hope even finding jobs within her company post-grad (lulz). Anyway, it's been tiring, but I've done things in the meantime; I'm pretty involved in extra-curricular activities, MBA classes, loads of leadership, etc. I'm really interested in a residency as I've had some clinical experiences as a first responder on the school EMS, but not pharmacy specific besides doing hours for IPPE. I've read here that work experience is a pretty big factor in residencies, but I'm curious as to what to do if not being able to find a job was really not in my hands. I worked hard to find a job and I just couldn't.

 

[mustang sally]

All you can really do at this point is apply for residency and see where it goes. I didn't match, and I felt that my minimal work experience was a big factor in my not matching. Having said that, there are plenty of anecdotal tales of students who match with minimal to no work experience. A lot of it is a crap shoot and probably also boils down to how much they like you in general.

Is it possible for you to volunteer in a pharmacy somewhere? It might help you bridge the gap a little if you can show you were at least in an unpaid pharmacy position.

 

[Angela1234]

Can you volunteer at a local hospital? I applied to 15 residences, had an A average, volunteered at a hospital, and still didn't get any interviews. It is a tough job market.

 

[samisab786]

most places I know of don't allow volunteering but I could try again. Did you volunteer at the hospital as a general volunteer or in the pharmacy?

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I had no work experience through pharmacy school, and I think that's one of the things that prevented me from getting interviews/matching. Other than that, I thought and was told my CV was pretty competitive. Like mustang sally said, you pretty much just have to apply with what you have. Do the best you can on rotations, make connections with your preceptors and at the places you're rotating, try to get in on a potential project with your preceptors. Those things are basically all you can do this year. If you get offered interviews, go prepared. Don't rule yourself out just yet.

I didn't match, but I was able to scramble, so all the other things that I did during school still helped me in the long run.

 

[BMBiology]

I am sure you have worked hard and capable but I think you need to also be realistic.

Most likely you won't be granted an interview for residency.

Try to volunteer at an independent pharmacy or ask your rotation preceptors if you can volunteer there. Good luck to you.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I am sure you have worked hard and capable but I think you need to also be realistic.

Most likely you won't be granted an interview for residency.

Try to volunteer at an independent pharmacy or ask your rotation preceptors if you can volunteer there. Good luck to you.

I think that's a little harsh. I applied to 13 programs, and got 4 interviews (majority were university affiliated programs). It depends on what type of programs he/she applies to as well. If he/she applies broadly, I think they can at least get an interview. Matching is another thing all together though.

 

[metallideth]

Can you volunteer at a local hospital? I applied to 15 residences, had an A average, volunteered at a hospital, and still didn't get any interviews. It is a tough job market.

What type of residencies did you apply to? VA, University affiliated, community hospitals? Did you have any extracurricular activities? Did you so research? Did you have any leadership positions?

 

[samisab786]

I think that's a little harsh. I applied to 13 programs, and got 4 interviews (majority were university affiliated programs). It depends on what type of programs he/she applies to as well. If he/she applies broadly, I think they can at least get an interview. Matching is another thing all together though.

lol, thanks for giving me some hope; I haven't given up yet despite the fact I don't have any experience and still plan to attend mid-year and apply. What exactly is scrambling? I remember the P4s last year mentioning it.

 

[samisab786]

oops posted that twice

 

[metallideth]

I think that's a little harsh. I applied to 13 programs, and got 4 interviews (majority were university affiliated programs). It depends on what type of programs he/she applies to as well. If he/she applies broadly, I think they can at least get an interview. Matching is another thing all together though.

If you don't mind sharing what were your stats? GPA, Extracurricular, Research, Community service, Leadership positions?

lol, thanks for giving me some hope; I haven't given up yet despite the fact I don't have any experience and still plan to attend mid-year and apply. What exactly is scrambling? I remember the P4s last year mentioning it.

If an individual that participated in the matching process didn't match to any residency spot that they had ranked, this individual can reapply to any open unmatched residency slots in hopes of getting something.

 

[Silvermist]

I think it depends on the site. You also need to know why the site wants work experience, because it can vary. One residency director for a major academic medical center happens to be my advisor, and said that for her institution, a job is a way they can tell that you can manage your time with multiple responsibilities. For them, it has nothing to do with knowing processes or knowing how to fill Pyxis machines or find expired drugs - it's not about "having a job" it's about handling a big workload. So if the candidate can demonstrate another way in which they have managed multiple experiences and a big workload, not having a job wouldn't hurt them. My advice would be to ask the programs you are interested in why having a job (or not) matters to them, and then to address that issue in your LOI explaining other ways you have demonstrated that skill.

 

[Angela1234]

I applied to every residency program in 4 different states in the Southeast where I wanted to live. I knew not to be picky. I also did the scramble or whatever it is called for people who did not match for another 8 residency sites. I was not granted any interviews for those either. I do have several extracurricular activities, such as joining several clubs, doing volunteering at a hospital pharmacy, etc., A average in school. A lot of these residency sites probably already know some of the applicants from them doing rotations there though.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

If you don't mind sharing what were your stats? GPA, Extracurricular, Research, Community service, Leadership positions?



If an individual that participated in the matching process didn't match to any residency spot that they had ranked, this individual can reapply to any open unmatched residency slots in hopes of getting something.

3.5 GPA, newer pharmacy school (less than 10 years old), heavily active in different organizations (president, secretary, chair member), TONS of community service, I was a pharm tech when I was in undergrad but not pharmacy school, did research in undergrad, elective rotations were all clinical and done in a top university affiliated hospital, attended many meetings and leadership events.

 

[metallideth]

3.5 GPA, newer pharmacy school (less than 10 years old), heavily active in different organizations (president, secretary, chair member), TONS of community service, I was a pharm tech when I was in undergrad but not pharmacy school, did research in undergrad, elective rotations were all clinical and done in a top university affiliated hospital, attended many meetings and leadership events.

Your stats are very impressive. Why do you think you had a hard time matching?

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

Your stats are very impressive. Why do you think you had a hard time matching?

I didn't apply broadly for one. Every place I applied to initially was university affiliated. Residency in general is competitive, but I think I should have applied to some of the smaller programs. The big name places have people that are tons better than me to pick from.

I think lack of work experience hurt me as well. Some places narrow down their applicants that way.

Lastly, I think my interview skills were lacking. I'm a shy person in general, and it seemed that the residency programs I interviewed at like the big personalities. I'm not one of those people. It's something that I am and will always have to work on, but I am comfortable talking to patients and doing my job.

 

[knight on horse]

You sound pretty dour OP. Chipper up and people may like you more. Be more aggressive and optimistic

I was in even worse situation than you just now (not that I recommend it) and landed a sweet full time retail job (lol) (not that I recommend it)

But the point is, have some energy and optimism and whatever things you are capable of making happen, will happen. I had a problem on the other end of disengaging too much from school and life, but people had always expected great things from me

 

[samisab786]

You sound pretty dour OP. Chipper up and people may like you more. Be more aggressive and optimistic

I was in even worse situation than you just now (not that I recommend it) and landed a sweet full time retail job (lol) (not that I recommend it)

But the point is, have some energy and optimism and whatever things you are capable of making happen, will happen. I had a problem on the other end of disengaging too much from school and life, but people had always expected great things from me

lol dude, thanks for the good vibes. I'm trying (and should try harder, eh). I'm in a 0-6 program and yea, it was cool, I was involved and did some fun things in school, but I had to deal with some rly bad (non-pharmacy situations) with friends and all, it was depressing and I really didn't end up having much of a social life either. Wanted to enjoy my undergrad years a lot more than I did, and in addition to that, looking at my lack of experiences and the stories of unemployment on the forum are kind of gloomy. But regardless, I should keep my head up, thanks again 🙂

 

[joetrisman]

One thing that could be potentially problematic with your scenario is a lack of extern hours depending on which state your desired residency is in. Some state boards are more flexible than others about this. However, not having hours of externship is already limiting your choices.

 

[samisab786]

One thing that could be potentially problematic with your scenario is a lack of extern hours depending on which state your desired residency is in. Some state boards are more flexible than others about this. However, not having hours of externship is already limiting your choices.

hm, do you know what states may be more lenient? I would ideally love to be able to do a residency in New England, Mid-Atlantic region, however I undersand that is very competitive, and considering that my experiences are also lacking, I will be willing to expand my options elsewhere in the country.

Also, if i don't get a residency, will it also be hard for me to get a job in general? I don't really love retail, but if it comes to that, I will do it. I talked to a CVS recruiter, and she already flat out said that not having internship experience, esp with CVS, would basically give me no chance to be a future employee of theirs. The Walgreens and Target recruiters seemed to be more open-minded in that matter. And what about hospital/clinical jobs in general? Are they also difficult to get without experience? From the way I am reading in these forums, it seems like finding jobs in general are already as hard as it is and I'm concerned not having much experience on my resume.

 

[pharmd718]

hm, do you know what states may be more lenient? I would ideally love to be able to do a residency in New England, Mid-Atlantic region, however I undersand that is very competitive, and considering that my experiences are also lacking, I will be willing to expand my options elsewhere in the country.

Also, if i don't get a residency, will it also be hard for me to get a job in general? I don't really love retail, but if it comes to that, I will do it. I talked to a CVS recruiter, and she already flat out said that not having internship experience, esp with CVS, would basically give me no chance to be a future employee of theirs. The Walgreens and Target recruiters seemed to be more open-minded in that matter. And what about hospital/clinical jobs in general? Are they also difficult to get without experience? From the way I am reading in these forums, it seems like finding jobs in general are already as hard as it is and I'm concerned not having much experience on my resume.

not having a residency will not make it hard for you to get a job in general.

avoid CVS if you can. 10 years ago they would hire the worst pharmacists just as long as they had a license simply because of the demand. so once the pharmacy programs add another year and the number of graduates decline...they will be begging you to work for them.

If you can get a hospital job it would be the best thing IMO. if you do a residency and specialize in a particular field, you will be limiting yourself to a specific market (ex: very few clinical positions for psych pharmd out there). If you would like to do a residency, do a 1 year residency and apply for a hospital job.

As far as applying for a residency...here is a little secrete that recruiters don't tell you:

Every applicant comes to the table with a different skill set. Some are A students while others are C. THE WAY THE RECRUITERS CHOOSE THEIR RESIDENTS IS BASED ON ENTHUSIASM! If you are really excited about the residency and have researched that hospital before the interview your rate of matching is much much higher.

good luck...and don't give up. 2 years from now you will be at a different place in your life.

 

[Rockinacoustic]

If you couldn't seal the deal on an intern job during school, what makes you think you'll be more successful with residency interviews?

 

[samisab786]

not having a residency will not make it hard for you to get a job in general.

avoid CVS if you can. 10 years ago they would hire the worst pharmacists just as long as they had a license simply because of the demand. so once the pharmacy programs add another year and the number of graduates decline...they will be begging you to work for them.

If you can get a hospital job it would be the best thing IMO. if you do a residency and specialize in a particular field, you will be limiting yourself to a specific market (ex: very few clinical positions for psych pharmd out there). If you would like to do a residency, do a 1 year residency and apply for a hospital job.

As far as applying for a residency...here is a little secrete that recruiters don't tell you:

Every applicant comes to the table with a different skill set. Some are A students while others are C. THE WAY THE RECRUITERS CHOOSE THEIR RESIDENTS IS BASED ON ENTHUSIASM! If you are really excited about the residency and have researched that hospital before the interview your rate of matching is much much higher.

good luck...and don't give up. 2 years from now you will be at a different place in your life.

Oops, what I meant was that would it be hard for me to find a job in general without experience, not without residency.
But this is really uplifting, I am really interested and have already started to look at some programs.
Thank you 🙂

 

[samisab786]

If you couldn't seal the deal on an intern job during school, what makes you think you'll be more successful with residency interviews?

I've had several people, including my neighbor who is a speech pathologist, review my interviewing skills with me and give me an honest assessment of how I interview while I was looking for intern jobs. Mostly everybody had positive things to say about my style. In addition, I've taken a resume building class and plan to review my resume with my school's career center. I have done a lot more in terms of involvement than many of my friends who do have intern jobs have, so I don't know why I could not "seal the deal" on getting an intern job, but that doesn't stop me from at least trying at a residency.