No more wailing and gnashing of teeth, OK kids?

[Goro]

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I know that is anxiety season, with apps and all getting done and sent out, but this bus is coming. So more fussing, OK?


AOA House of Delegates Votes to Support Single GME Accreditation System

Delegates representing the nation’s more than 104,000 osteopathic physicians and osteopathic medical students voted today to support a decision by the AOA Board of Trustees to pursue a new, single accreditation system for graduate medical education.

This historic vote during the annual meeting of the AOA House of Delegates comes after an announcement in February that the AOA, the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) had reached an agreement to work together to prepare future generations of physicians.

When fully implemented in July 2020, the new system will allow graduates of osteopathic and allopathic medical schools to complete their residency and/or fellowship education in ACGME-accredited programs and demonstrate achievement of common milestones and competencies.

The AOA strongly believes the public will benefit from a single standardized system to evaluate the effectiveness of GME programs for producing competent physicians. Through osteopathic-focused residency programs, the new GME accreditation system will recognize the unique principles and practices of the osteopathic medical profession and its contributions to health care in the U.S.

For more information on the single GME accreditation system, visit www.osteopathic.org/singleGME.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I know that is anxiety season, with apps and all getting done and sent out, but this bus is coming. So more fussing, OK?


AOA House of Delegates Votes to Support Single GME Accreditation System

Delegates representing the nation’s more than 104,000 osteopathic physicians and osteopathic medical students voted today to support a decision by the AOA Board of Trustees to pursue a new, single accreditation system for graduate medical education.

This historic vote during the annual meeting of the AOA House of Delegates comes after an announcement in February that the AOA, the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) had reached an agreement to work together to prepare future generations of physicians.

When fully implemented in July 2020, the new system will allow graduates of osteopathic and allopathic medical schools to complete their residency and/or fellowship education in ACGME-accredited programs and demonstrate achievement of common milestones and competencies.

The AOA strongly believes the public will benefit from a single standardized system to evaluate the effectiveness of GME programs for producing competent physicians. Through osteopathic-focused residency programs, the new GME accreditation system will recognize the unique principles and practices of the osteopathic medical profession and its contributions to health care in the U.S.

For more information on the single GME accreditation system, visit www.osteopathic.org/singleGME.

Goro I have two questions about this. I know some do students take both the uslme and comlex. Will this change? I'm graduating from do school in 2019 so would waiting a year change my residency process then?

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

I have wondered the same thing... Not that there has been much particulars on a unified board exam or the specifics of applying to residency via one GME process. But those are the things I am really curious of. I figure most solid programs will get on board for accreditation as soon as they can, but still. I am curious as to how it will look graduating 2019. I can just imagine like finishing the COMLEX and USMLE and then finding out that the next years class only has to take a single test or something haha...
Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

 

[Goro]

My speculation is that COMLEX will be more accepted as a qualification exam. I can't imagine that the AOA will eliminate COMLEX, because how would one assess OPP?

Goro I have two questions about this. I know some do students take both the uslme and comlex. Will this change? I'm graduating from do school in 2019 so would waiting a year change my residency process then?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

My speculation is that COMLEX will be more accepted as a qualification exam. I can't imagine that the AOA will eliminate COMLEX, because how would one assess OPP?

Why does there need to be a standardized test for opp? Can't the tests the individual med schools give be sufficient?

If I might consider an allopathic residency is taking just the complex a bad idea?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I have wondered the same thing... Not that there has been much particulars on a unified board exam or the specifics of applying to residency via one GME process. But those are the things I am really curious of. I figure most solid programs will get on board for accreditation as soon as they can, but still. I am curious as to how it will look graduating 2019. I can just imagine like finishing the COMLEX and USMLE and then finding out that the next years class only has to take a single test or something haha...
Sent from my RM-917_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk

This situation is what I'm worried about. I would be kinda mad.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

My speculation is that COMLEX will be more accepted as a qualification exam. I can't imagine that the AOA will eliminate COMLEX, because how would one assess OPP?

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

Heyyy that was my point

 

[Goro]

The problem is that people at different schools emphasize different things. Hell, even the OMM faculty at my own school each teach things in different ways. Even in my own subject, I'll wager that not all of what I emphasize is emphasized at other schools.

When I was on faculty at IUSM, the 8 different centers plus the big IU school in Indy, had a state-wide exam in my subject. I think 80% of the material assessed had to be the same at each school (let's pretend one thing was function of the cranial nerves). Another 20% could be instructor or school specific, so each school had a unique exam, but with huge overlaps with the other school's exams. This could be a model for a mandatory mastery exam of OPP, with a single board exam for all med school students.

It's no use getting upset or worried about things that haven't happened yet, when even the participants plus the movers and shakers don't know what the next step is.


Why does there need to be a standardized test for opp? Can't the tests the individual med schools give be sufficient?

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

The problem is that people at different schools emphasize different things. Hell, even the OMM faculty at my own school each teach things in different ways. Even in my own subject, I'll wager that not all of what I emphasize is emphasized at other schools.

When I was on faculty at IUSM, the 8 different centers plus the big IU school in Indy, had a state-wide exam in my subject. I think 80% of the material assessed had to be the same at each school (let's pretend one thing was function of the cranial nerves). Another 20% could be instructor or school specific, so each school had a unique exam, but with huge overlaps with the other school's exams. This could be a model for a mandatory mastery exam of OPP, with a single board exam for all med school students.

It's no use getting upset or worried about things that haven't happened yet, when even the participants plus the movers and shakers don't know what the next step is.

Why does there need to be a standardized test for opp? Can't the tests the individual med schools give be sufficient?

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

So couldn't there be a standardized test for just opp then? Why does it need to be on everything? The uslme already handles the rest.

 

[Goro]

Could be. A COMLEX-lite, perhaps?

So couldn't there be a standardized test for just opp then? Why does it need to be on everything? The uslme already handles the rest.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Could be. A COMLEX-lite, perhaps?

Exactly!!! Saves the trouble of making a group of med students take both!! Someone inform aoa about this.

 

[nontrad78]

I was sort of under the impression that there were already a fair amount of ACGME programs that accepted COMLEX scores, and the number of those programs were on the rise. Would it not just dramatically increase in the lead up to the merger? I don't do a ton of research on residency requirements yet, but I thought I remembered seeing this in at least a handful that I'd looked at.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

The problem is that people at different schools emphasize different things. Hell, even the OMM faculty at my own school each teach things in different ways. Even in my own subject, I'll wager that not all of what I emphasize is emphasized at other schools.

When I was on faculty at IUSM, the 8 different centers plus the big IU school in Indy, had a state-wide exam in my subject. I think 80% of the material assessed had to be the same at each school (let's pretend one thing was function of the cranial nerves). Another 20% could be instructor or school specific, so each school had a unique exam, but with huge overlaps with the other school's exams. This could be a model for a mandatory mastery exam of OPP, with a single board exam for all med school students.

It's no use getting upset or worried about things that haven't happened yet, when even the participants plus the movers and shakers don't know what the next step is.

Why does there need to be a standardized test for opp? Can't the tests the individual med schools give be sufficient?

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

Yah, I suppose converting the COMLEX to be a side exam for OMM competence is probably going to be the best route to take with it all.

 

[cliquesh]

Why does there need to be a standardized test for opp? Can't the tests the individual med schools give be sufficient?

If I might consider an allopathic residency is taking just the complex a bad idea?

Yes. A decent number of anesthesia programs, for instance, have a 220 usmle (40th percentile) or 600 Comlex (90th percentile) minimum score requirement.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Yes.

But I also risk then taking two tests unnecessarily

 

[cliquesh]

I don't think anything is going to change anytime soon. Comlex will still be required to get licensed, some residency program directors will be fine with Comlex scores only and some won't.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I don't think anything is going to change anytime soon. Comlex will still be required to get licensed, some residency program directors will be fine with Comlex scores only and some won't.

Well at least by 2020 things are sure to change

 

[cliquesh]

Well at least by 2020 thinks are sure to change

Acgme doesn't have anything to do with licensing so I don't know how much will change.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

I mean isn't that what your OMM class is supposed to do? Assess and teach you OPP/OMM? I don't quite see the point in needing a standardized assessment honestly for a physical technique that you test well... physically come COMLEX 2.

Extend this argument to any subject in med school. Aren't all med schools supposed to teach you about the nervous system, heart, etc.? The best compromise is taking the USMLE and then having an OPP only test. This way everyone wins. AOA keeps making money from us (which is what they really want) and we get to only take 1 big test.

 

[koan]

Yes. A decent number of anesthesia programs, for instance, have a 220 usmle (40th percentile) or 600 Comlex (90th percentile) minimum score requirement.

And this is one problem with relying on ACGME programs to accept your COMLEX score. Like cliquesh mentioned, they equate a below-average USMLE (220) with a very very high COMLEX (600). Part of this is based on some archaic conversion formula that was published years ago and tends to underestimate USMLE scores profoundly. The rest is either an inability or unwillingness on the part of PDs to accurately interpret the COMLEX. For the foreseeable future, taking both exams keeps the most doors open, so you can be compared apples-to-apples with MD students.

 

[koan]

Extend this argument to any subject in med school. Aren't all med schools supposed to teach you about the nervous system, heart, etc.? The best compromise is taking the USMLE and then having an OPP only test. This way everyone wins. AOA keeps making money from us (which is what they really want) and we get to only take 1 big test.

It seems like the perfect solution. Take the current OMM shelf exam (COMAT) that we all take during 3rd year (125 questions) and tack it on as a module to USMLE. Problem is that NBOME will never be able to charge $500+ for that module and they have no incentive to move in that direction.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

It seems like the perfect solution. Take the current OMM shelf exam (COMAT) that we all take during 3rd year (125 questions) and tack it on as a module to USMLE. Problem is that NBOME will never be able to charge $500+ for that module and they have no incentive to move in that direction.

Tack it onto training for MDs who wish to practice OMM and they'll have 5x what they originally had.

 

[conrad101]

.

 

[QueenJames]

So what effect does this have for a student who JUST came back from.. let's say... Ross from the Caribbean and just took his step 1 .... and has not applied for residency yet...

 

[Mad Jack]

So what effect does this have for a student who JUST came back from.. let's say... Ross from the Caribbean and just took his step 1 .... and has not applied for residency yet...

Graduating now? Pretty much no affect. Graduating in the next 4-6 years? Likely lower match rates.

 

[QueenJames]

No.. For a student about to start rotations (year 3) in a month I believe...

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

No.. For a student about to start rotations (year 3) in a month I believe...

Nobody knows because right now they're moving ahead with planning the merger and ironing out the details. It could very well mean that those Ross students may apply to the programs that have transitioned into the new ACGME.