Nobody annoyed about Obama spying on people?

[yappy]

Fair enough. But, what on? What do you disagree with?

I disagree with the notion that an "us vs them" mentality is wrong or that it doesn't exist.

There is an "us" in the U.S. even if most people don't realize it right now. Perhaps we've allowed the chasm between citizen and soldier widen too much; however, once mainstream America gets pulled into the world from their station of lofty-selfloathing-idealist, and are confronted by a foreign force that does not care for their well being, the "we're all one world" paradigm will melt away like the facade that it is.

Like any other nation we advance our own interests abroad to maintain a strategic advantage. You're looking at individual situations without considering the broader context of the world - you have to play with the cards that you're dealt - those forces may not represent American values but they may support our interests for a time and that all is that matters. I've dealt with groups that I wouldn't trust my family around; but, given the options they were the best group to cooperate with to get some jobs done.

I guess I'm not evolved enough to join the United Federation of Planets yet...

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[gasattack3]

I disagree with the notion that an "us vs them" mentality is wrong or that it doesn't exist.

There is an "us" in the U.S. even if most people don't realize it right now. Perhaps we've allowed the chasm between citizen and soldier widen too much; however, once mainstream America gets pulled into the world from their station of lofty-selfloathing-idealist, and are confronted by a foreign force that does not care for their well being, the "we're all one world" paradigm will melt away like the facade that it is.

Like any other nation we advance our own interests abroad to maintain a strategic advantage. You're looking at individual situations without considering the broader context of the world - you have to play with the cards that you're dealt - those forces may not represent American values but they may support our interests for a time and that all is that matters. I've dealt with groups that I wouldn't trust my family around; but, given the options they were the best group to cooperate with to get some jobs done.

I guess I'm not evolved enough to join the United Federation of Planets yet...

No, this is where I think you're dead wrong.

"We" don't advance "our" interests as a nation. The power elite in the world have a LOT more in common with each other that they do with YOU. Make no mistake about this.

So, private interests take us into silly foreign wars. In YOUR best interests? Well, you are paying for it. I hope you're right.

Special interests keep our southern border a mere joke. In YOUR best interests? Your kids?? Again, you are paying for it (it's not an "immigration" issue). They are cheapening the whole idea of U.S. citizenship.

We are riddled in debt yet special interests make sure that our wealthy "ally" Israel gets billions of dollars in aid each year. Other nations too, but none as "special" as that one.
No, this is not Israel-bashing. It is what it is. But, in YOUR best interests?


We've been dicking around in the Middle East for decades. Are YOU paying less for energy for it? For gas? Paying off eh? No, but of course some large multinational corporations are benefiting from our "interests" in that region.

There is no more "us" in the U.S. This is the reality. Maybe, it's US against the power elite which do in fact run our country. But, THEY don't consider YOU part of the club. I assure you of this. I had a hard time accepting this also when I first began realizing it. It's not comfortable.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

There is no more "us" in the U.S. This is the reality. Maybe, it's US against the power elite which do in fact run our country. But, THEY don't consider YOU part of the club. I assure you of this. I had a hard time accepting this also when I first began realizing it. It's not comfortable.

Time to revolt French Revolution style?

 

[yappy]

Like I said - we'll agree to disagree. Enjoy your Infowars, etc

 

[Pooh & Annie]

No, this is where I think you're dead wrong.

"We" don't advance "our" interests as a nation. The power elite in the world have a LOT more in common with each other that they do with YOU. Make no mistake about this.

So, private interests take us into silly foreign wars. In YOUR best interests? Well, you are paying for it. I hope you're right.

Special interests keep our southern border a mere joke. In YOUR best interests? Your kids?? Again, you are paying for it (it's not an "immigration" issue). They are cheapening the whole idea of U.S. citizenship.

We are riddled in debt yet special interests make sure that our wealthy "ally" Israel gets billions of dollars in aid each year. Other nations too, but none as "special" as that one.
No, this is not Israel-bashing. It is what it is. But, in YOUR best interests?


We've been dicking around in the Middle East for decades. Are YOU paying less for energy for it? For gas? Paying off eh? No, but of course some large multinational corporations are benefiting from our "interests" in that region.

There is no more "us" in the U.S. This is the reality. Maybe, it's US against the power elite which do in fact run our country. But, THEY don't consider YOU part of the club. I assure you of this. I had a hard time accepting this also when I first began realizing it. It's not comfortable.

If the power elite ran everything, and government never had our interest in mind, we'd be much more like Russia and our middle class would be in much worse shape then it is now.

Agree with the war stuff. Bush/Cheney put more effort into ruining this country then I ever would have thought possible by any single presidency. Big money interests seemed to have free reign at government, and cost us ridiculous sums of money and lives. Worst admininistration in modern history; maybe ever.

I'm half with you on the border stuff. It is a joke and we could SO easily protect it if we really wanted to. As soon as someone sneaks a dirty bomb across the border they'll get serious, and all the politicians that have been ****ing around with the border issue will have serious questions to answer. As far as it costing us, I don't know. Yes illegals don't pay income tax, but cheap labor results in cheap Walmart products. And they pay sales tax. And they don't utilize state and federal resources nearly as much as people seem to think they do. But it IS an embarrassing joke that with all our security and monitoring concerns we don't even control our border.

The vast majority of the aid we give Israel is by law used to by AMERICAN defense products, so American businesses benefit. The Israeli military presence in the Middle East, both in itself and as a staging ground for our military, is huge. And I guarantee we get more valuable middle east intel from Israel than from our own intelligence agencies.

If you think our involvement in the rest of the Middle East is as simple as "dicking around" for gas, I don't have the time to go into that part.

 

[adenocard]

Some of the comments about allowing illegal search and seizure willingly in this thread are truly terrifying

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-up-this-much-liberty-to-fight-terror/276695/

But they're doing it to protect us from the terrorists!!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUaEtf1s23w[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeIwVdz9bQ[/youtube]

 

[adenocard]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMbN5P-90AE[/youtube]