Non-Calc Physics

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lainey234

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My school offers two versions of physics: one algebra based, one calc based. Is there any draw back to taking the algebra based class?
 
one draw back is the fact that in alg. physics you will have to memorize more. you probably won't believe me, but calc physics is easier since you memorize less. in calc physics you only need to memorize a handful of equations and you can derive the rest using elementary calculus. in algebra physics you will simply have to memorize every equation (unless you are allowed to use a notecard w/ equations for tests).
 
lainey234 said:
My school offers two versions of physics: one algebra based, one calc based. Is there any draw back to taking the algebra based class?
Click to expand...

Unless you want to do MSTP definitely take the non-calc physics.
 
Want to actually learn physics? Take the calc-based. Algebra-based physics is a neutered class that teaches you equations, not physics. There is more to it than the math; there are concepts that are entirely unexplainable without calculus.

Want to satisfy the requirement for med schools and learn just enough physics to take the MCAT? Want an easier course with a much more forgiving curve (since there are so many pre-med students in your class)? Take the algebra-based course.
 
If you're looking for the easy way out, go algebra. An adcom will never know the difference. I would recommend the calc based if you have a knack for math, as you really learn the big picture and the true concepts behind the formulas (which can help you if you happen to forget one in a need-to-know situation - like on the MCAT).
 
_ian said:
Want to actually learn physics? Take the calc-based. Algebra-based physics is a neutered class that teaches you equations, not physics. There is more to it than the math; there are concepts that are entirely unexplainable without calculus.

Want to satisfy the requirement for med schools and learn just enough physics to take the MCAT? Want an easier course with a much more forgiving curve (since there are so many pre-med students in your class)? Take the algebra-based course.
Click to expand...
Seconded.
 
I've taken both. I don't think it really matters for the MCAT. I'd say take the one which fits your schedule better.
 
I took algebra based physics with no HS physics whatsoever and ended up with a 15 on the PS section of the MCAT. It's enough. If you have special interest in physics, take calc-based physics.
 
d^2f(t)/dt^2=af(t) (where a is just a constant)

if you can easily think of a function f(t) that works for this equation (which describes the harmonic oscillator, and i am 100% sure you know the answer if you took calc I), then you should easily pass calc physics I and II with flying colors. all you have to do is think in more general terms. i found that my classmates who were struggling with calc physics were thinking too hard about the math and not about what the equations were really saying. like one of the previous posts said, take calc physics to learn physics, take alg physics if you want to memorize and regurgitate. really, calc physics is not that hard. it is an intro class.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Seconded.
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Amen to that. Newton was a physics rockstar because of the calculus. It's just the easiest way to talk about physics. Doing physics without calc is kind of like reading Shakespeare in Chinese - you can do it, but why should you?

I've heard (but never had the impetus to check on this, so it's probably a weird prank somone pulled on me that's only now coming to fruition) that in the U.K. mechanics is taught as an applied math class because there are so few physical ideas (gravity, springs) and so much is about how math ties them together.

- LBQ
 
I have took both physics AP Phy (B) with a 5 and I have just got my A+ in college Physics for Sci and eng " definitely take the calc physics " non-calc physics is a joke under comparison and don't really teach you any concept... 😉 this is true to me and I don't care how good your professor can be. Giving said Cal-Phy dont have much if any Calculus involved, so don't worry! Which is kind of disappointing, I think they really should teach Physics with Math pre-requirements such as multivariable Cal and Differential Equations, but that's just my humble opinion. :laugh: imagin how much more fun can be learn from intro physics.
 
Harvard's HST program requires calc-based physics, FWIW.
 
Take calc-based physics.

If you know Calculus and just try proving the concepts of Physics, not only does it become much clearer, it also becomes more interesting.

Surely, algebra-based physics is enough to do well on the MCAT. But critical thinking is even more vital, and calculus-based physics will surely improve your critical thinking skills because difficult Physics requires more theory and conceptual knowledge than it does formulas.

Do it for Newton. 🙂 He's dead, you know. 🙁
-Dr. P.
 
I took algebra-based physics, partly because I haven't taken any math since BC Calc in 11th grade and partly because my awful physics teacher in HS completely turned me off the subject. Physics I (mechanics, force, etc) was simple; some of the stuff in Physics II (e.g. E&M) was more confusing, and my physics-major friends assure me that E&M without calculus is nonsensical. Still, I did well in both semesters and got a 14 on the PS of the MCAT.

If you want to do MSTP, one of your favorite schools requires calc-based physics, or you like calculus, go for calc-based physics. If not, algebra-based physics is just fine. Don't feel pressured to taking the more advanced course just to impress adcoms.
 
My personal opinion is that you should take calc based physics, because all the different concepts and equations will be so much more clearer and will make sense as opposed to algebra based where you basically memorize all of them and then plug in, without really understanding what is going on in the process.

Calc based physics is not much harder than algebra based physics. In the class I took at least, we never really used calculus in our problems, we used it to understand where the equations came from.
 
to use antideriviatives on acceleration to actually understand the formula for position is an amazing feeling
 
Just remember everyone, sometimes calculus isn't everyone's thing. So realistically ask yourself if you did well in calculus, and are up for a bit of a challenge and more hollistic understanding. But, it's not worth getting a C+ in the Calc-based versus an A in the Algebra, because the Adcom won't know the difference in difficulty between the classes (they don't have every curriculum memorized, nor the time to look it up).
 
If you are asking for med school app purposes, nobody knows or cares which one you take. I'd take whichever one I thought it would be easier to do well in. Whether that be the easier course, or the harder one with a better curve 😉
 
lainey234 said:
My school offers two versions of physics: one algebra based, one calc based. Is there any draw back to taking the algebra based class?
Click to expand...

The alegbra-based physics was required for my bio degree while the calc-based physics was required for all engineers, CS, etc... My wife took calc-based while I was taking the algebra-based and there is no doubt that the calc-based is harder but I think you would probably learn more.
 
lainey234 said:
My school offers two versions of physics: one algebra based, one calc based. Is there any draw back to taking the algebra based class?
Click to expand...

Non-calc physics at my school is also known as pre-med physics.

The only people who take calc-based physics fall into 3 categories:

1. People who require it for their degree (physics, engineering, etc.)

2. People who don't require it for their degree and are simply *****s.

3. This guy:
andrev_nerd.jpg
 
novawildcat said:
d^2f(t)/dt^2=af(t) (where a is just a constant)

if you can easily think of a function f(t) that works for this equation (which describes the harmonic oscillator, and i am 100% sure you know the answer if you took calc I), then you should easily pass calc physics I and II with flying colors. all you have to do is think in more general terms. i found that my classmates who were struggling with calc physics were thinking too hard about the math and not about what the equations were really saying. like one of the previous posts said, take calc physics to learn physics, take alg physics if you want to memorize and regurgitate. really, calc physics is not that hard. it is an intro class.
Click to expand...

Ummm it is once you can do the calculus and understand the calculus that the physics makes sense. I remember the day i finally understood what i was really doing in vector calc in terms of parameterization. it was a beautiful day.

oh and uhh... f(t) = C1exp(root a)t + C2exp(root a)-t or the equivalent sinh/cosh linear combination, is that it?
 
taylormade44 said:
you dont get out much, do you?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your helpful comment! Your the best!
 
another vote for calc-based.

unless your terrible at math, i feel its waaaay easier to understand, apply, and learn permanently. algebra-based is the quickie, "memorize these equations but don't understand them" route to learning physics.
 
.surgical. said:
another vote for calc-based.

unless your terrible at math, i feel its waaaay easier to understand, apply, and learn permanently. algebra-based is the quickie, "memorize these equations but don't understand them" route to learning physics.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to learn it permanently?

You won't ever use it in medical school.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Why would you want to learn it permanently?

You won't ever use it in medical school.
Click to expand...

Because some people like to learn stuff for the sake of learning rather than go the easy way just to get an A.
It's called being well rounded.
 
MinnyGophers said:
Because some people like to learn stuff for the sake of learning rather than go the easy way just to get an A.
It's called being well rounded.
Click to expand...

Some people would rather have a social life.

I'd rather party and socialize than learn physics and calculus to become more "well-rounded."

You won't be a better physician by learning, and you are only making yourself a better candidate to join Lambda Lambda Lambda.......
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Some people would rather have a social life.

I'd rather party and socialize than learn physics and calculus to become more "well-rounded."

You won't be a better physician by learning, and you are only making yourself a better candidate to join Lambda Lambda Lambda.......
Click to expand...

Oh please, because I find physics interesting makes me a nerd who sits in a room lightened by candles all day? 🙄
Obviously if you hate physics, you don't have to force yourself to like it.

I'd like to think that pre-medical students out there do not solely think about being "better" physicians and do not always choose the easy way at going at it.
 
MinnyGophers said:
Oh please, because I find physics interesting makes me a nerd who sits in a room lightened by candles all day? 🙄
Obviously if you hate physics, you don't have to force yourself to like it.

I'd like to think that pre-medical students out there do not solely think about being "better" physicians and do not always choose the easy way at going at it.
Click to expand...

Enjoy your fantasy world........
 
MinnyGophers said:
Nevermind.

God bless the poor patients.
Click to expand...

Yes, because they will need to be treated with calculus........ 🙄
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Yes, because they will need to be treated with calculus........ 🙄
Click to expand...

Stop being a *****. You are way off the boat.

I didn't say that you should take whatever difficult class just to be "well rounded", what i meant is that people should learn for the sake of learning instead of always being a wuss and finding the easiest classes. It doesn't mean either that you need to take quantum mechanics if you hate the stuff.

But obviously it's not the case for everyone here because God forbid, if i don't keep my GPA at 3.9999, it means I will never make a good doc 🙄
 
MinnyGophers said:
Stop being a *****. You are way off the boat.

I didn't say that you should take whatever difficult class just to be "well rounded", what i meant is that people should learn for the sake of learning instead of always being a wuss and finding the easiest classes. It doesn't mean either that you need to take quantum mechanics if you hate the stuff.

But obviously it's not the case for everyone here because God forbid, if i don't keep my GPA at 3.9999, it means I will never make a good doc 🙄
Click to expand...

I'm a ***** because I don't like calculus?

Wow. It sounds like we are projecting, doesn't it?
 
MinnyGophers said:
Stop being a *****. You are way off the boat.

I didn't say that you should take whatever difficult class just to be "well rounded", what i meant is that people should learn for the sake of learning instead of always being a wuss and finding the easiest classes. It doesn't mean either that you need to take quantum mechanics if you hate the stuff.

But obviously it's not the case for everyone here because God forbid, if i don't keep my GPA at 3.9999, it means I will never make a good doc 🙄
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, med schools don't reward that type of mindset. It's all about the numbers, not the courses you take. Just ask the engineers out there with their respectable 3.2's who get rejected every year.
 
SeventhSon said:
Ummm it is once you can do the calculus and understand the calculus that the physics makes sense. I remember the day i finally understood what i was really doing in vector calc in terms of parameterization. it was a beautiful day.

oh and uhh... f(t) = C1exp(root a)t + C2exp(root a)-t or the equivalent sinh/cosh linear combination, is that it?
Click to expand...


your probably thinking about it too hard (i.e. don't start solving diff eqs.). all i was asking was basically "the derivative of what function 2 times is equal to the original function times a constant." the sine or cosine functions by themselves would work perfectly. often times in physics texts you will see x(t)=Asin(omega*t+phi)+Bcos(omega*t+phi) for the harmonic oscillator. Something like e^i(omega)t would also be a solution, which decomposes into the previous equation from euler's formula (which they teach you in high school). All that can be derived in less than 1 minute just by knowing F=-kx for the oscillator and that the second derivative of sine or cosine is again sine and cosine. Calc physics is all like that. If you think in simpler terms, physics calc actually becomes easier. Alright im done being a super nerd for now, but i really do enjoy talking about this kind of stuff whenever i get the chance.
 
bbas said:
Unfortunately, med schools don't reward that type of mindsight. It's all about the numbers, not the courses you take. Just ask the engineers out there with their respectable 3.2's who get rejected every year.
Click to expand...

I have to stick up for MinnyGophers here. The point he/she is trying to make, I think, is not that med schools reward harder/more esoteric classes; it's that those classes are best taken if you actually have an interest in the subject, regardless of whether you're applying to med school, engineering programs, etc. If OSUDoc values partying more than academic exploration, that's fine; different people value different aspects of their lives. Some people will ONLY take those courses that make them a better physician. However, I do firmly believe that a path like this results in a somewhat narrowed scope of things (mean that in the best way possible) and that immersion in different subjects, with an actual curiosity for them, is good for the mind.

Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would take classes for the purpose of learning and not just to get into med school; too bad we don't live in a perfect world. 🙂
 
SoupWithAFork said:
I have to stick up for MinnyGophers here. The point he/she is trying to make, I think, is not that med schools reward harder/more esoteric classes; it's that those classes are best taken if you actually have an interest in the subject, regardless of whether you're applying to med school, engineering programs, etc. If OSUDoc values partying more than academic exploration, that's fine; different people value different aspects of their lives. Some people will ONLY take those courses that make them a better physician. However, I do firmly believe that a path like this results in a somewhat narrowed scope of things (mean that in the best way possible) and that immersion in different subjects, with an actual curiosity for them, is good for the mind.

Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would take classes for the purpose of learning and not just to get into med school; too bad we don't live in a perfect world. 🙂
Click to expand...

yes, i agree, but i wouldnt take osudoc's advice....look what school he ended up at
 
taylormade44 said:
yes, i agree, but i wouldnt take osudoc's advice....look what school he ended up at
Click to expand...

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on that one?
 
A flame war about become more intelligent vs becoming a better physician....

tell me this makes any sense whatsoever.

Just do what the hell you want and stop preaching about it to everyone else.
 
OSUdoc08 said:
I'm a ***** because I don't like calculus?

Wow. It sounds like we are projecting, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

No you are a ***** because you can't read. I'm not talking about calculus, I'm talking about whatever fields people are interested in learning, which doesn't make them as socially inept as YOU are projecting them to be.
Did I say you were NOT well rounded by not taking calc/physics? Did I say anywhere that you need to sign up for thermodynamics and quantum mechanics? No.
 
SoupWithAFork said:
I have to stick up for MinnyGophers here. The point he/she is trying to make, I think, is not that med schools reward harder/more esoteric classes; it's that those classes are best taken if you actually have an interest in the subject, regardless of whether you're applying to med school, engineering programs, etc. If OSUDoc values partying more than academic exploration, that's fine; different people value different aspects of their lives. Some people will ONLY take those courses that make them a better physician. However, I do firmly believe that a path like this results in a somewhat narrowed scope of things (mean that in the best way possible) and that immersion in different subjects, with an actual curiosity for them, is good for the mind.

Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would take classes for the purpose of learning and not just to get into med school; too bad we don't live in a perfect world. 🙂
Click to expand...

thank you, couldn't be put in better words.
It's fine if all you're interested is medicine. But isn't that hypocritical then to project me as a nerd with no social life because I happen to enjoy other stuff? I value learning to expand your horizons and understanding of the world. If you don't, it's your loss. But I'm not criticizing you for this choice.
 
bbas said:
Unfortunately, med schools don't reward that type of mindsight. It's all about the numbers, not the courses you take. Just ask the engineers out there with their respectable 3.2's who get rejected every year.
Click to expand...

But the thing is that I don't care that med schools doesn't reward that. Learning stuff i'm interested in is rewarding enough, and if you're interested in a field, you'll obviously do well in it anyways.
And that is exactly one of the problems of medical school admissions nowadays. It's all about numbers. But numbers do not predict how good a physician a person will turn out to be.
Personally, I'd rather have a doc who knows stuff and remembers that stuff, rather than a doc who just took classes to pass them. Is it how the world works? No. But this is what I value. Do I feel better than people who don't value it as much as I do? No.
 
.surgical. said:
A flame war about become more intelligent vs becoming a better physician....

tell me this makes any sense whatsoever.

Just do what the hell you want and stop preaching about it to everyone else.
Click to expand...

Now tell me, how do you become a "better" physician?
Does more "intelligence" and being well rounded leads to being a "bad" physician?
I'm not preaching anything, I was just stating an opinion to the OP, which is that if he is interested in learning more about how physics work, he should take the calc based version. No where did I tell him that if he didn't, he'd not be fit for med school 🙄
 
OSUdoc08 said:
Non-calc physics at my school is also known as pre-med physics.

The only people who take calc-based physics fall into 3 categories:

1. People who require it for their degree (physics, engineering, etc.)

2. People who don't require it for their degree and are simply *****s.

3. This guy:
andrev_nerd.jpg
Click to expand...

I just saw this post and must say that you are quite the tool.

Now wonder DO's have a negative stigma on these boards, because jackasses like you represent them
 
taylormade44 said:
I just saw this post and must say that you are quite the tool.

Now wonder DO's have a negative stigma on these boards, because jackasses like you represent them
Click to expand...

Money, money, money 😴
 
I took calc because I enjoy math, especially algebra and trig - hence I did well in Calc. However, I'm taking the non-calc-based physics because I really only need physics for the MCAT. And, according to the AAMC, you don't need calc to do well, and I know plenty who never took calc and did well on the PS (SOME had to have had physics questions!).

I have a busy semester coming up, and hopefully the non-calc physics will be easier and I can keep up my As. (hopefully!)
 
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