PhD/PsyD Non-clinical jobs in VA?

[Psychchick09]

Needing some ideas about possible future job options! I’m currently a program manager for a SUD program at the VA and due to various life changes, I’m feeling a need to move away from doing so much clinical work. With that said, the position I’m in now is what I’d been working toward for most of grad school/early career, so I don’t really know what other options exist because I never envisioned doing anything else. One aspect of my current job that I really like is the program development and evaluation I’ve been doing (albeit, somewhat informally). Ideally, I’d love to stay in VA, both because I’ve put a chunk of time into PSLF and I’d like to finish that out, but also because I do feel really strongly about helping/supporting Veterans. Part of me is a little worried that there aren’t really any jobs that would be what I’m looking for, but I thought I’d ask here and see if anyone has any ideas I haven’t thought of? Thanks all!

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[PsychPhDone]

Needing some ideas about possible future job options! I’m currently a program manager for a SUD program at the VA and due to various life changes, I’m feeling a need to move away from doing so much clinical work. With that said, the position I’m in now is what I’d been working toward for most of grad school/early career, so I don’t really know what other options exist because I never envisioned doing anything else. One aspect of my current job that I really like is the program development and evaluation I’ve been doing (albeit, somewhat informally). Ideally, I’d love to stay in VA, both because I’ve put a chunk of time into PSLF and I’d like to finish that out, but also because I do feel really strongly about helping/supporting Veterans. Part of me is a little worried that there aren’t really any jobs that would be what I’m looking for, but I thought I’d ask here and see if anyone has any ideas I haven’t thought of? Thanks all!

Would you be open to being a research study therapist, so maybe some of your duties include clinical work in the context of a study, but you'd be shielded from much of the bureaucracy? I have a bunch of ideas but this will impact what I suggest.

 

[Psychchick09]

Would you be open to being a research study therapist, so maybe some of your duties include clinical work in the context of a study, but you'd be shielded from much of the bureaucracy? I have a bunch of ideas but this will impact what I suggest.

I’d be open to considering it, but surprisingly enough, it’s not the bureaucracy but the clinical work itself that I’m struggling with. Although, it’s also the work-life balance difficulties, so maybe something like that could be good. And I do enjoy research, so bring forth the suggestions! Thanks!

 

[summerbabe]

How interested are you in climbing the managerial ladder and getting a 0% clinical role? And is there turnover at your VA at those levels?

Alternatively, if you can get another position like training director, practicum coordinator, workplace violence prevention coordinator, MST coordinator, etc that can potentially buyout sone clinical time. But depending on the extra role and your VA, it may or may not be possible to hold onto your SUD program manager role.

The VISN5 MIRECC in Baltimore focuses on SUD research but that would be a drop in pay, require relocation, and you'd need a strong research CV/grant history.

The only other thing I can think of that is 100% nonclinical are VISN based caregiver support program (I think) clinical review positions.

 

[Psychchick09]

How interested are you in climbing the managerial ladder and getting a 0% clinical role? And is there turnover at your VA at those levels?

Alternatively, if you can get another position like training director, practicum coordinator, workplace violence prevention coordinator, MST coordinator, etc that can potentially buyout sone clinical time. But depending on the extra role and your VA, it may or may not be possible to hold onto your SUD program manager role.

The VISN5 MIRECC in Baltimore focuses on SUD research but that would be a drop in pay, require relocation, and you'd need a strong research CV/grant history.

The only other thing I can think of that is 100% nonclinical are VISN based caregiver support program (I think) clinical review positions.

I think I’d be interested I those positions, but it doesn’t seem like there’s a ton of turnover in them. Definitely something to keep an eye on though! And some of those roles you’ve mentioned don’t get a ton of protected time at my VA, and like you said, I don’t know how much support there’d be for me to do those while keeping my current position.

You identified one of my biggest weaknesses in terms of moving into a more research-based position, which is that I essentially have no post-doctoral experience related to research, and even in grad school I was more focused on clinical work so my CV is SUPER light on things like grant-writing and pubs.

I hadn’t thought about looking at the caregiver support program; thanks for the suggestion!

 

[PsychPhDone]

How interested are you in climbing the managerial ladder and getting a 0% clinical role? And is there turnover at your VA at those levels?

Alternatively, if you can get another position like training director, practicum coordinator, workplace violence prevention coordinator, MST coordinator, etc that can potentially buyout sone clinical time. But depending on the extra role and your VA, it may or may not be possible to hold onto your SUD program manager role.

The VISN5 MIRECC in Baltimore focuses on SUD research but that would be a drop in pay, require relocation, and you'd need a strong research CV/grant history.

The only other thing I can think of that is 100% nonclinical are VISN based caregiver support program (I think) clinical review positions.

Adding to these ideas since my list was mostly these haha

There may be the possibility of finding a research funded role, not as a PI, but as a PhD level research coordinator/study therapist. It may result in you losing a permanent staff role in favor of being temporary, but the right role could potentially be a good fit. PIs tend to be loyal and care about their staff's funding when they're able to. I have a grant under review now that has a 100% fte position set in the budget for this for example and it's entirely possible you could find something that's fully remote in this type of role.

It's also possible that something like one of the clinical resource hubs for suicide prevention or similar would offer a different admin/clinical mix.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I don't have much experience with it myself, but it sounds like what might be the best VA fit would be trying to continue moving up the leadership ladder. You're already a PM, so the next step would probably be either trying to identify a lead psychologist or associate chief of staff position. You'll probably still have some clinical duties, but they'd at least be attenuated. And the you just keep going up from there. The sticky part is that this can sometimes involve moving and/or temporary duty relocations, especially for senior management positions.

I'm sure there are various more administrative/less clinical roles in central office, but I don't know how often they become available.

Someone above mentioned training, which is also certainly an option. But if you aren't already involved in training in some capacity, jumping right into a director of training role would probably be both unlikely to happen and tough on you (there are a lot of administrative intricacies when it comes to VA training, as I'm sure you can imagine from your current PM work).

Last thing I can think of is to try looking at your and other VAs' employee education departments. I know psychologists who've moved into employee training roles (with, I believe, 0% clinical time allocation) who loved it.

 

[cara susanna]

Some VAs have full time coordinator jobs, too, and those are mostly admin.

 

[Sanman]

How interested are you in climbing the managerial ladder and getting a 0% clinical role? And is there turnover at your VA at those levels?

Alternatively, if you can get another position like training director, practicum coordinator, workplace violence prevention coordinator, MST coordinator, etc that can potentially buyout sone clinical time. But depending on the extra role and your VA, it may or may not be possible to hold onto your SUD program manager role.

The VISN5 MIRECC in Baltimore focuses on SUD research but that would be a drop in pay, require relocation, and you'd need a strong research CV/grant history.

The only other thing I can think of that is 100% nonclinical are VISN based caregiver support program (I think) clinical review positions.

These are non-clinical based jobs (mostly chart review). However, they are fairly competitive and the folks I know who have these jobs are board certified geropsych folks.

 

[erg923]

Needing some ideas about possible future job options! I’m currently a program manager for a SUD program at the VA and due to various life changes, I’m feeling a need to move away from doing so much clinical work. With that said, the position I’m in now is what I’d been working toward for most of grad school/early career, so I don’t really know what other options exist because I never envisioned doing anything else. One aspect of my current job that I really like is the program development and evaluation I’ve been doing (albeit, somewhat informally). Ideally, I’d love to stay in VA, both because I’ve put a chunk of time into PSLF and I’d like to finish that out, but also because I do feel really strongly about helping/supporting Veterans. Part of me is a little worried that there aren’t really any jobs that would be what I’m looking for, but I thought I’d ask here and see if anyone has any ideas I haven’t thought of? Thanks all!

Bumping this cause I saw it the day I went on vacation and couldn't respond at that time.

1. Veterans Health Administration (VHA) National Center for Organization Development (NCOD).....
--Have mentioned this before but always wondered what this group actually does? If you can find out let us know because they are either too small to make a substantial impact or are seemingly terrible at their job?

2. There is also this:

Employment

Employment Opportunities within VA R&D

www.research.va.gov

3. Occasionally there are openings at several large VAs that have "10% clinical time" for their combined Internship and Post-Doc TD position. I'm betting in reality they don't see any patients at all. But man, I bet that is alot of excel spreadsheets and APA nonsense. You'd definitely have more than 2 computer monitors on your desk. 🙂

4. Years ago (2016, 2017), I heard the EBT trainer positions were not all what they were cracked up to be and many were being reduced and thus individuals forced back into clinical or mid-level manager roles.

You might have better luck with managed care orgs-Population Health Clinical Officer, Clinical Operations Director, Grievance and Appeals Director, UM Director, etc.
Humana, Centene, UBH (Optum), BCBS all have these openings from time-to-time.

 

[cara susanna]

Bumping this cause I saw it the day I went on vacation and couldn't respond at that time.

1. Veterans Health Administration (VHA) National Center for Organization Development (NCOD).....
--Have mentioned this before but always wondered what this group actually does? If you can find out let us know because they are either too small to make a substantial impact or are seemingly terrible at their job?

2. There is also this:

Employment

Employment Opportunities within VA R&D

www.research.va.gov

3. Occasionally there are openings at several large VAs that have "10% clinical time" for their combined Internship and Post-Doc TD position. I'm betting in reality they don't see any patients at all. But man, I bet that is alot of excel spreadsheets and APA nonsense. You'd definitely have more than 2 computer monitors on your desk. 🙂

4. Years ago (2016, 2017), I heard the EBT trainer positions were not all what they were cracked up to be and many were being reduced and thus individuals forced back into clinical or mid-level manager roles.

You might have better luck with managed care orgs-Population Health Clinical Officer, Clinical Operations Director, Grievance and Appeals Director, UM Director, etc.
Humana, Centene, UBH (Optum), BCBS all have these openings from time-to-time.

I'm an EBT trainer and I rather like it, but you definitely need leadership support to give you more admin time.