Non-ED job options

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avatarism

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Hello all, I was wondering what opportunities outside the ED are available to a board-eligible EM physician without a fellowship? Call it burnout or whatever, but I really can't stand being in the ED for much longer. I used to love my job, but residency has pretty much beaten any passion for clinical medicine out of me. I'm almost done with residency so it makes sense to finish, but I need to find something else to do to pay my bills when I'm done! :bang:
 
You could always be the spokesperson for Hydroxycut; right now all they have is a "resident physician". You could usher in a new era for Hydroxy cut...
 
You could always be the spokesperson for Hydroxycut; right now all they have is a "resident physician". You could usher in a new era for Hydroxy cut...

Mwa Ha Ha Ha! Awesomezore!

I always love the before picture that has a pasty white dude who is in decent shape pushing his stomach out and the after is the same guy in a little bit better shape with a spray tan sucking his belly in... 🙂
 
or realize residency can be really stressful/painful. Try a decreased load. half time, locum tenems.
 
or realize residency can be really stressful/painful. Try a decreased load. half time, locum tenems.

aah... the voice of reason.
 
Roja has struck again with sagely advice. I can sympathize with what you feel. I would add, give the job a shot, maybe a year contract somewhere nice and easy to make money, get your bearings, and gain some sanity back if you feel like you lost some. If it's still not working out, then you have time and most importantly some money to start planning other options. This will be very hard to do right now especially if you are in your last year of residency. Carol Rivers CD about career change may be helpful. Her website is Emergency medicine educational enterprises INC. Google search it. I can also send you the CD if you like, just email me back.

Good luck and love it come what may.
 
Scribe: probably not, I've got bad handwriting

Be a consultant: maybe, who could I consult for?

Be a cruise doc: one word---seasickness.

Work in an urgent care clinic: ugh, that's worse than being in the ED!

Do another residency or go to back to school: no way in hell

Spokesperson for Hydroxycut: even I wouldn't stoop that low

G
ive the job a shot for a year: from what I heard from our alumni, the first year out sucks even more than residency, even at the cush places. No thanks.

Maybe I'll go be a high school teacher.
 
can you tell us about your background? traditional/non-traditional, why med school, why EM. 2nd and 3rd specialty choices. what your pros and cons are, how have you evolved year by year since med school, best and worst moments. it might help answer the question.
 
give the job a shot for a year: from what I heard from our alumni, the first year out sucks even more than residency, even at the cush places. No thanks.
.

forreals? please explain...
 
forreals? please explain...
First year out bites pretty hard. You are now THE MAN. You are the final say. You have to make the dicisions about who to admit, who to discharge, when to intubate, what procedures to do and so on. There's no one to present to who will guide you to the disposition. If you're single coverage then there's not even anyone to help with the volume. Since you're new you don't know anyone and you don't know the tricks of that particular ER. I had shifts where I went home and cried and shifts where I went home and looked up info about switching professions. I had a few shifts where I went home 8 hours late because I just couldn't get a patient dispoed.

It does get better. But the first year out can be pretty bleak.
 
Oh crud, I want to switch out too!!!
 
Could also start your own web site and sell stuff. The Er-Doctor.com seems to have done something like that. The site is interesting, but there is so much stuff for sale on there he seems like a snake oil salesman...
 
Maybe you could do an EMS fellowship and be a medical director for a city or county, or find some other way to get into an administrative position. Raytheon Polar Services hires docs for the Antarctic research stations. Also, I think the State Department will take EM physicians for Regional Medical Officer positions. That's kind of a big commitment, though.
 
Doing a fellowship may help:
critical care--get out of the ED and into the ICU
hyperbarics--go do dive medicine stuff in the Caribbean
Wilderness med--spend your time in the outdoors and far, far away from medicine
Research--do you like lab or bench type work?
...I'm sure there are more fellowships that could take you much farther away from the ED....

Other options--
International medicine--doctors w/o borders in some african village may help re-inspire you
Go to law school--an MD/JD is a pretty good deal and wouldn't make your MD a waste of time

Are you sure it just isn't they type of ED you're training in? Maybe a more rural, low volume hospital with a small ED. Away from the county patients that break my (maybe your) spirit.

Good luck, sounds like a pretty bummer place to be in when you've devoted so much time and energy into it.
 
I feel the same way as Avatar!! The difference is that I am only 5 months into internship.

I know internship is supposed to be difficult but I am unhappy and there is a difference. If I am honest, I think I severely over-estimated how much I wanted to "Help" people. And 20+ years of sacrificing my health and well being so that I can get Mr. Smith's BS chest pain workup done faster is not what I signed up for.

So my options are: finish up, its only 2.5 years and then figure out what to do or switch. The leading contender is Anesthesia.

Lost Soul I am right now......
 
I feel the same way as Avatar!! The difference is that I am only 5 months into internship.

I know internship is supposed to be difficult but I am unhappy and there is a difference. If I am honest, I think I severely over-estimated how much I wanted to "Help" people. And 20+ years of sacrificing my health and well being so that I can get Mr. Smith's BS chest pain workup done faster is not what I signed up for.

So my options are: finish up, its only 2.5 years and then figure out what to do or switch. The leading contender is Anesthesia.

Lost Soul I am right now......

Curiosity question - How many rotations did you do in the ED? I'm assuming you did a few to get SLORs and to be seen. Did you not see this when you did the rotations? Is it a change in location from where you were (and therefore different types of patients)?
 
There are many options for clinicians who are interested in pursuing non-clinical opportunities. I'd encourage you to take a look at my blog and start building your network.
 
Hope no one minds me bumping this old thread, but I have the same question as the initial poster. I'm one month into my last year of a miserable residency experience. It's not even so much that I hate EM as that I am in a program that is such a bad fit in every sense of the word. Burned out and situationally depressed don't even begin to describe how I feel. My adviser is bugging me to start putting together a CV and cover letter to look for jobs, and I just don't have it in me enough to care. My main focus is on clearing out of here as quickly as possible, without even passing go long enough to attend my graduation.

Initially I thought I'd do a fellowship and go into academic medicine. Now I don't think I'll end up doing either. I can't exactly imagine the administration at my program enthusiastically recommending me to their friends at other academic programs as a great addition to their faculty. I do still have interest in the fellowship, but I don't think I can handle going straight into another year of working 60+ hours on top of being a new attending, taking my boards, etc. It's obvious to me that I need to at least take this year off, and maybe next year too, before even thinking about applying for a fellowship.

So, I'm thinking about what to do in the meantime. Unfortunately, I can't afford to not work at all. I'd be ok with working part time even if it means taking a major pay cut. I'd be ok with doing urgent care. I'd be ok with stocking shelves at Walmart if that's what it comes to. I just don't want to be here, and I don't want to be working this much. But if I did do something part time that's not truly EM, like urgent care, will I still be able to do a fellowship later if I decide I want to? I don't want to have gone through the residency from hell and then wind up as a career urgent care doctor. :/

Also, avatarism, if you're still around, I'd really appreciate knowing what you decided to do.
 
what do you hate most Olliver? admin issues? aggravating patients? the hours?

might help us narrow it down.

i didn't love my residency, not from day 1. actually day 0, my internship... took a lot of effort for me to make it through. i enjoy work much more as a community attending, but i have carefully chosen my jobs.
 
what do you hate most Olliver? admin issues? aggravating patients? the hours?
The hours and the people at my program. I mean other residents/faculty/administration, not just the patients. Or even primarily the patients. Not that the patients are easy to deal with either sometimes. It's a tough inner city crowd. Like I said, I am a really bad fit for this program in so many ways. :/

I also want to leave this city, and I'm completely flexible about where to go next. Just don't want it to be here, and don't want to be stuck in some dead end urgent care job for the long term if I can avoid it. But I'd do urgent care, or just about any other job I'm qualified for, if it meant I could support myself and it wouldn't be here.
 
The hours and the people at my program. I mean other residents/faculty/administration, not just the patients. Or even primarily the patients. Not that the patients are easy to deal with either sometimes. It's a tough inner city crowd. Like I said, I am a really bad fit for this program in so many ways. :/

I also want to leave this city, and I'm completely flexible about where to go next. Just don't want it to be here, and don't want to be stuck in some dead end urgent care job for the long term if I can avoid it. But I'd do urgent care, or just about any other job I'm qualified for, if it meant I could support myself and it wouldn't be here.

Sorry you didn't have a great residency experience. That sucks and is definitely illustrative of why everyone makes such a big damn deal about fit during the "What's the best residency?" threads. But you're not thinking rationally about the future.

Unless you signed some sort of contract requiring you to become an attending at your current program then nothing you're describing effects your future in a substantial way. In terms of fellowship, most programs are not competitive and even black sheep usually get recommendations for fellowship spots. In terms of going into the community, most jobs are going to be in the 30-40 hrs/wk range starting off. You usually can find a job that fits your requirements in terms of pt population, etc if you're even vaguely flexible in terms of geography. Not every shop is an inner-city adrenaline and testosterone fueled gaunlet of pain. But you do need to start looking for a job and possibly a psychiatrist if you can't get your head straight enough to contemplate life outside of your current situation.
 
Not every shop is an inner-city adrenaline and testosterone fueled gaunlet of pain.

That is a great line. I love the way it reads. That would make a great title for a blog post. Can I steal that?

"The Inner City, Adrenaline and Testosterone Fueled Gaunlet of Pain

By ------ M.D."

Awesome.
 
Hope no one minds me bumping this old thread, but I have the same question as the initial poster. I'm one month into my last year of a miserable residency experience. It's not even so much that I hate EM as that I am in a program that is such a bad fit in every sense of the word. Burned out and situationally depressed don't even begin to describe how I feel. My adviser is bugging me to start putting together a CV and cover letter to look for jobs, and I just don't have it in me enough to care. My main focus is on clearing out of here as quickly as possible, without even passing go long enough to attend my graduation.

Initially I thought I'd do a fellowship and go into academic medicine. Now I don't think I'll end up doing either. I can't exactly imagine the administration at my program enthusiastically recommending me to their friends at other academic programs as a great addition to their faculty. I do still have interest in the fellowship, but I don't think I can handle going straight into another year of working 60+ hours on top of being a new attending, taking my boards, etc. It's obvious to me that I need to at least take this year off, and maybe next year too, before even thinking about applying for a fellowship.

So, I'm thinking about what to do in the meantime. Unfortunately, I can't afford to not work at all. I'd be ok with working part time even if it means taking a major pay cut. I'd be ok with doing urgent care. I'd be ok with stocking shelves at Walmart if that's what it comes to. I just don't want to be here, and I don't want to be working this much. But if I did do something part time that's not truly EM, like urgent care, will I still be able to do a fellowship later if I decide I want to? I don't want to have gone through the residency from hell and then wind up as a career urgent care doctor. :/

Also, avatarism, if you're still around, I'd really appreciate knowing what you decided to do.

I feel your pain. Take comfort in knowing that per several surveys you have what 2/3 of Emergency Physicians describe having some feeling of:

Burnout.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/05/emergency-physicians-burning.html

In fact, if you didn't have some some element of it, then you would be the weird one. I realize that might not make you feel any better, but knowing you are far from alone, may.

The good news: there are many options for you to turn this around. Since I don't know you specifically, I can't tell you what to do, but here are some options:

1-Finish residency and take the job where you work the least shifts per month possible. I bet if you can find a job with less than 100 hours per month, you'll see things more clearly. You might realize you like EM much more when you are better rested, and when you are getting paid for your work, rather than your work putting money in your attending's pocket.

Most importantly, RENT, RENT, RENT so if your first job sucks you can peace out ASAP! You won't be stuck for three years like residency. And you'll be making enough money to pay a lease break penalty on an apartment if you need to jet. You're almost free!

2- Consider alternative fellowships, such as Palliative Care or Critical Care, or others which would allow you to essentially make a complete specialty change yet build on your hard work in EM without technically "leaving the specialty." Consider them because they are so different from what you thought you'd ever do.

3-Think outside the box with non-clinical careers. Again, building on your EM background and training without "starting over."

http://www.nonclinicalcareers.com/

4-Being done with residency absolutely is better than being a resident, in any form. It's not perfect, all easy, or without a learning curve, but definitely better. You'll find your "fit" somewhere. Some programs are just weird, and stuffy. It may not be you.

Just some ideas..

Good luck.
 
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Sorry you didn't have a great residency experience. That sucks and is definitely illustrative of why everyone makes such a big damn deal about fit during the "What's the best residency?" threads. But you're not thinking rationally about the future.
You're right, I'm not. I guess the problem is that I don't see a "30-40 hrs/wk" job working in the ED as something I want to pursue. How many legit jobs will be interested in me after I tell them I want to work half time because I'm too fried to work full time? But I'm very flexible with regard to geography and shifts worked. I'm single no kids, so one day is the same as another for me. Working all nights or weekends would be something in my favor and I'd be willing to do it.

1-Finish residency and take the job where you work the least shifts per month possible. I bet if you can find a job with less than 100 hours per month, you'll see things more clearly. You might realize you like EM much more when you are better rested, and when you are getting paid for your work, rather than your work putting money in your attending's pocket.
This is probably true.

Most importantly, RENT, RENT, RENT so if your first job sucks you can peace out ASAP! You won't be stuck for three years like residency. And you'll be making enough money to pay a lease break penalty on an apartment if you need to jet. You're almost free!
Good point. I have no plans to buy a house any time in the near future.

2- Consider alternative fellowships, such as Palliative Care or Critical Care, or others which would allow you to essentially make a complete specialty change yet build on your hard work in EM without technically "leaving the specialty." Consider them because they are so different from what you thought you'd ever do.
So, fellowships. I do think I still want to do one eventually but not sure what. The list of EM fellowship options on the ABMS website are critical care, EMS, palliative care, med tox, peds EM, sports med, or hyperbaric. (Not sure where ultrasound is on that list. I guess it's not boarded?)

I could maybe see myself doing palliative care, although I worry it would burn me out too. Cross peds EM out for sure. I'm not a kids person. Not that into EMS or sports med either. Haven't had any hyperbaric experience so who knows. Critical care is ok, but my residency experiences with ICU rotations didn't leave me with a burning desire to do it for a career. Tox seems cool and I'd consider ultrasound if I could get boarded in it, but I don't know how much sense it makes to do one of those two fellowships if my goal was to spend less time working in the ED.
 
Do locum tenens and then you can see what is out there at your own pace. You can work in a small rural ED where you are lucky if you see 6 patients in a 24 hour shift (I've done that, but it was usually 1 patient an hour most of the time) or you can try out a huge ER with a volume of 140k/year. You can work 1 shift a month or 20 shifts a month and no one will care other than your bank account. Some places will pay you close to 300/hr to moonlight, especially if it is last minute and you are able to cover. Working 4 shifts per month at 12 hours per shift at 250 will give you close to 150k for the year before taxes.

Look, residency sucks and if it is a bad residency even worse than normal. It is much better when you get out. The first year is rough because of the change in responsibility, not completely the time commitment. However, like I said, you can go at it slowly or balls to the wall.

I wouldn't just say f* everything right off the bat and not give it a try post residency.
 
have worked in everything from urban county to suburban freestanding to semirural sees everything, with some time with the rich and a few famous... they all have their pluses and minuses. currently do a mix of the middle 2, which i prefer over the extremes.

give yourself some time out of residency. DON'T overextend yourself in 1. hours, 2. overhead and you'll be more than fine financially working even half time unless your loans are gargantuan. i'm way, way happier with my current practice than i was with residency. couldn't wait to get out and had a countdown timer most of the time. it wasn't all bad - loved most of the residents and got great training - but it was at times brutal for a variety of work and personal reasons. hang in there... it gets better for the vast majority of people.
 
I second the locums idea. It'll offer you a lot of flexibility, get you out of your dreaded area, and they wont care why you want to work a reduced load, they'll just be happy to get a doc.
 
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