Non-science prof recommendation - really a requirement?

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OoohShiny

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Browsing these forums and pre-med sites, I've gathered the generally consistent rule of: 2 science profs, and 1 non-science prof. However, having gone through every California MD school's website, most of the rec requirements are VERY chill - usually along the lines of "we want 3-6 recs, recommend/require at least 1 from a science professor."

Now, I'm new to the process and haven't looked at any others beyond CA, but I feel like I'm missing something here since ALL the CA schools don't seem to really require who the recs come from as long as they get three. Is CA just an exception and most med schools do require the 2 science, 1 non science? Or am I missing something and it's an unspoken requirement for CA med schools too?

Also, do most schools specify non-science *professor* or can any non-science, e.g. work employer, rec be sufficient?

Thanks! :)
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OoohShiny said:
Browsing these forums and pre-med sites, I've gathered the generally consistent rule of: 2 science profs, and 1 non-science prof. However, having gone through every California MD school's website, most of the rec requirements are VERY chill - usually along the lines of "we want 3-6 recs, recommend/require at least 1 from a science professor."

Now, I'm new to the process and haven't looked at any others beyond CA, but I feel like I'm missing something here since ALL the CA schools don't seem to really require who the recs come from as long as they get three. Is CA just an exception and most med schools do require the 2 science, 1 non science? Or am I missing something and it's an unspoken requirement for CA med schools too?

Also, do most schools specify non-science *professor* or can any non-science, e.g. work employer, rec be sufficient?

Thanks! :)
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The average applicant applies to 14 schools. Within the mix of schools you eventually apply to, there will be some schools with strict requirements and there will be some schools that are very lax. When it comes time to actually apply, you don't want to be surprised that you don't meet a school's requirements. So while the CA schools might not have strict rules regarding their LORs, a lot of schools do. It sounds like you are a CA resident, in which case you will find yourself applying to a lot of OOS schools since CA schools are notoriously difficult.

The non-science letter is referring to a non-science professor.
 
As previous poster said, its a case by case basis. To make your application as well rounded as possible, you should definately try to get a non-science LOR. It can only help.
 
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sector9 said:
The average applicant applies to 14 schools. Within the mix of schools you eventually apply to, there will be some schools with strict requirements and there will be some schools that are very lax. When it comes time to actually apply, you don't want to be surprised that you don't meet a school's requirements. So while the CA schools might not have strict rules regarding their LORs, a lot of schools do. It sounds like you are a CA resident, in which case you will find yourself applying to a lot of OOS schools since CA schools are notoriously difficult.

The non-science letter is referring to a non-science professor.
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Out of curiosity, I know this is the average number of applications per applicant based on aggregate data, but do data actually exist for this? Do we know a median?
 
gettheleadout said:
Out of curiosity, I know this is the average number of applications per applicant based on aggregate data, but do data actually exist for this? Do we know a median?
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I don't think they reveal that level of detail about the number of applications per applicant. The data for 2011 matriculating class was 609,312 applications from 43,919 applicants, so a mean of 13.874 applications per applicant.
 
I applied to 20 schools, state and private. Exactly one required a non-science professor. I am a nontrad student and when I explained to them that my last non science class was in the 1900s they let me substitute another science prof instead.
 
what kinds of things are the adcom trying to get from a non-science recommendation? I'm suggesting to a soc professor what to highlight in my letter..
 
every school will/may want something different and every school I applied to was very clear about their requirements.
 
By science, you all mean bio Chem physics? My pre med advisor said psych teachers wouldn't count towards science LOR. Is that correct?
 
is a committee letter "non-science?" This has always confused me.
 
PSiloveU2013 said:
By science, you all mean bio Chem physics? My pre med advisor said psych teachers wouldn't count towards science LOR. Is that correct?
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Yes, by science they mean basic science. My general rule of thumb is if the course grade factors into your science GPA then the professor's letter would be a science letter. A physiological psychology course professor could then count as a science letter (though more commonly letters are from BCPM course professors.) The exception may be math courses, as apparently some schools won't consider a math professor's letter to be a science letter. If you're going with a math prof, you might check with schools individually.
 
Where do you find the specific letter requirements for each school? I've checked the website and MSAR for two different schools so far, and I can't find letter requirements anywhere. I'm guessing I'm looking in the wrong place(?)
 
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The non-science letter adds another dimension to your academics. If you're a science powerhouse and an English professor says "He was one of my best students", that shows that you can critically think in areas other than science. Just like volunteering or research, it simply makes you a more well-rounded applicant.
 
Does non-science necessarily mean from a non-science faculty? Or can this come from a MD you shadowed?
 
Caveman7 said:
Does non-science necessarily mean from a non-science faculty? Or can this come from a MD you shadowed?
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it is a "non-science academic". So unless the MD officially taught you basket weaving at your university, it doesn't count.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
it is a "non-science academic". So unless the MD officially taught you basket weaving at your university, it doesn't count.
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I actually have an interesting situation concerning this...what if an MD taught me in a non-science mental health course (he's a psychiatrist). Would this count as a non-science letter?
 
SixStringPsych said:
I actually have an interesting situation concerning this...what if an MD taught me in a non-science mental health course (he's a psychiatrist). Would this count as a non-science letter?
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maybe.... yes, he can offer you a letter for the course. I dont know where the boundaries lay on science vs. non science. psych has many soft science aspects and is open to interpretation.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
maybe.... yes, he can offer you a letter for the course. I dont know where the boundaries lay on science vs. non science. psych has many soft science aspects and is open to interpretation.
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Yeah I agree. But given that its not going in my BCPM (trust me, I would love for them to since I got A's in both courses), I think that's the way they would set the boundary. Guess ill just have to wait and see :)
 
What about a statistics professor? Statistics is considered humanities but it seems like a bit of a gray area...any ideas
 
UltimateforFun said:
What about a statistics professor? Statistics is considered humanities but it seems like a bit of a gray area...any ideas
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Technically, statistics should be considered math (see my signature). Since your university places statistics as a humanities course, I wouldn't consider that as part of science GPA.
 
If you were on an adcom wouldn't you prefer someone who included a great LOR from someone in a non-scientific field?

I know I would. It shows me this person is well-rounded enough to excel/impress in other areas of life instead of just in science. I personally would lump things like math and psych into the science category as well.
 
Akali said:
If you were on an adcom wouldn't you prefer someone who included a great LOR from someone in a non-scientific field?

I know I would. It shows me this person is well-rounded enough to excel/impress in other areas of life instead of just in science. I personally would lump things like math and psych into the science category as well.
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Maybe, I think this depends on someone's UG course selection. I did all of my lib arts requirements as a freshman and was stuck almost exclusively taking science classes for my major the last three years. I don't think an adcom would want a random letter from some professor I had my freshman year just because it was non-science (thankfully I was able to get out of a non-science letter via committee letter).
 
Just wanted to add in that Loyola and NYMC are 2 schools that are firm in the non-science academic LOR requirement. You can still apply, but your application will be considered significantly weaker (via the admissions office of both schools).
 
mcloaf said:
Maybe, I think this depends on someone's UG course selection. I did all of my lib arts requirements as a freshman and was stuck almost exclusively taking science classes for my major the last three years. I don't think an adcom would want a random letter from some professor I had my freshman year just because it was non-science (thankfully I was able to get out of a non-science letter via committee letter).
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Wait so a committee letter actually gets you out of the non-science letter requirement? I thought you'd have to have the 2 science and 1 non science thing anyway, since the letters will be sent with the packet and written about
 
SixStringPsych said:
Wait so a committee letter actually gets you out of the non-science letter requirement? I thought you'd have to have the 2 science and 1 non science thing anyway, since the letters will be sent with the packet and written about
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IIRC most schools say 2 science 1 non-science OR a committee letter. All I know is I don't/didn't have a letter from a professor outside of science courses. I had >2 science prof letters, one from a summer research supervisor, and one from a doc I shadowed.
 
Gotcha, thanks guys, I totally didn't realize this. I'm trying to get all the different letters I possibly can anyway, but it's good to know
 
Definitely get a non-science letter just in case.. unless u know exactly which schools u r applying to and they dont require one. I applied to 31 schools from every "tier" and in popular locations. Many many wanted a non science letter. Just be safe and start building a relationship with a professor or TA... who can cosign or write it on behalf of the professor.

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Imo non-science means non-science, not non-BCPM.

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MedPR said:
Imo non-science means non-science, not non-BCPM.

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Sounds like the same thing to me lol.

It would seem unfair for schools to not consider Psychology courses as BCPM, and then count a letter from a professor from a Psych-related course as a science letter, even if it was taught by an MD. I could try to list these courses as BCPM on my AMCAS, but I think that they would most likely be changed in verification due to the course title.

I was a Psych major and any core studies humanities classes I took were too long ago and I didn't really have close relationships with the professors, so I'm probably just going to go with a Social Psych prof who liked me a lot to make sure I don't get looked down upon for not having a "non-science" letter. Obviously a letter from a writing professor or some philosophy prof would be best to show your academic diversity, but I guess I'm just going to go with what I can.
 
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