Non-trad applicants, please share your application tips

[PizzaButt]

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I'm a non-traditional applicant who will be applying to schools this December (clinical and counseling PhD programs). I have no advisor and am basically just using the Insider's Guide and the advice from this site to apply, but I still don't know if I'm doing everything right. I wondered if any non-trads could share their application tips, etc. What were the most difficult parts of the application for you?

Specifically, if you could talk about:

1. LORs. Who did you get to write yours? I've been out of undergrad nearly 10 years, and I'm sure none of my profs remember me. I'm going to ask my PI supervisor, and a recent prof from whom I took some psych pre-reqs lately, but I don't have someone to ask for my third. I could ask a previous employer (non-psych). This is stressing me out. Is asking previous non-psych employers ok?

2. How many schools did you apply to? I'm thinking about 12, but nearly all my schools admission stats are about 1 in 20, so I'm concerned.

3. Personal statement. What kinds of things did you write in there? I just decided to change careers in the spring. I'm wondering if this will cause me to not have a very strong personal statement. How did you discuss your previous career as it relates to psych?

4. General reception. How were your applications received? I am feeling kind of pessimistic about my admission chances.

5. I'm concerned about how to spin my JD. I know that I'm going to get questions about it. The thing is is that law school was a big mistake and I had no interest in law. I don't have any tie-in between law school and my current interest in clinical psych. Is that bad?

Thanks!

 

[RayneeDeigh]

The only thing that's bad is if you tell them that law school was a mistake (I'd actually be careful about posting that online, you never know who's reading). If you tell them that you got a degree you had no interest in they'll wonder what makes psych any different for you.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would instead look at your training as a life experience. I am (literally...as in the last 2 minutes) writing about my previous career and how it was a positive contribution to my clinical training. It wasn't all good, but I think it is important to identify the positive aspects that enhance your application (analytical skills, proven ability to handle a heavy academic workload, in depth understanding of ethical considerations....which is very important for IRB stuff, etc) I think what makes clinical great is that we are not all cut from the same mold. Take some time to reflect on why your mold is right for this work.

-t

 

[Reem16]

Hey PizzaButt

I am somewhat of a non-trad applicant myself, having a Master's degree in a completely unrelated field before going into Psychology. Overall, I am very happy that I didn't go into psychology during undergrad, since I don't think I would have learned from it as much / enjoyed it as much. I second everybody else's comments that your first career should not be presented as a mistake. At the time, it was probably the best choice you could have made, a choice without which you wouldn't be making the choices you are making today (if that makes any sense). You should definitely emphasize the diversity of your experience in your SOP as an asset, not a disadvantage.

Responses to your questions:

1 - LOR: I agree, it's stressful, we probably have less contacts than traditional students. I was lucky because the lab I work at has 2 PIs, so that made life easier for me. However, I also contacted an old professor and I was relieved to see that he was willing to recommend me. I hate asking for LOR, but profs know about the system, so I think that if you just take the risk and ask someone, even from a long time ago, they'll be happy to help you out.

2 - Schools: I am applying to 14. The task seems a little overwhelming right now, but hopefully it'll get better. Sounds like 12 is also a reasonable number of schools to apply to (large enough!) as long as you have a range (little known to really well known programs).

3 and 5- SOP and JD: I don't think we necessarily need to relate our past careers to psych (although if you can find a link, that's cool too!). As said earlier, I just want to present myself with an interesting background (because different), and a somewhat solid maturity. And then spend most of my SOP insisting on my experience in psychology itself.

4 - I am in the process of applying right now, so I have NO idea how my apps will be received.

Well, I don't know if this helps, but at least now you know you are not alone in the nontrad applicant process. I have so many things left to do before the deadlines... Good luck with your apps, and be proud of your nontrad background🙂

 

[wdd]

This is a really helpful thread!

A question for Reem16 and pizzabutt, from another non-trad, potential student:

Given your non-psych backgrounds, where are you with some of those classes admissions likes to see on your applications? That is, are you versed in statistics, research methods, etc? (Reem, it looks like you work in a lab, so I guess that answers that.)

I would prefer to not go the MA-then-PhD route, move twice, and go through the application process again in two years, but I'm concerned about the same things you are, pizzabutt, and also that I haven't taken any stats or research methods classes. (I'm also looking short one LOR, having been out for a while myself.)

 

[Reem16]

Hey WDD

I went the safe route and I took a bunch of classes to fulfill my pre-reqs, including stats and research methods (+ the actual hands-on experience helps). I didn't take as many classes as a psych major would have, but enough I think. Another thing to consider if that if you get a good grade on the Psychology GRE subtest, admissions people may be more lenient if you haven't taken all the classes necessary/weren't a psych major. Pizzabutt what's your strategy?

 

[wdd]

Reem, did you take these during undergrad, in an MA program, or at a community college, or some other way?

I don't think I'm the only one here, but I sort of feel like the flailing non-trad student, awash in a sea of "maybe" ... maybe I'll go for an MA to fill the gaps and get some research experience, maybe I'll have to take classes at an undergrad institution, maybe I can get into a decent clinical PhD right away instead and have two years of my life back, maybe I can get an RA job, with no science background, to beef up my experience. Maybe, just maybe, I'm crazy.

Here's what I've got:

18 credits of psych (intro, abnorm, sens&perc, bio, developmental, personality) with a 3.9 in my psych classes (damn that B in intro). Graduate work in linguistics, but no real interest at this point in going down that road. 5 years in the pharma industry doing something totally unrelated. That's it.

Hey WDD

I went the safe route and I took a bunch of classes to fulfill my pre-reqs, including stats and research methods (+ the actual hands-on experience helps). I didn't take as many classes as a psych major would have, but enough I think. Another thing to consider if that if you get a good grade on the Psychology GRE subtest, admissions people may be more lenient if you haven't taken all the classes necessary/weren't a psych major. Pizzabutt what's your strategy?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This seems like a good time to give my, "it is important to understand your unique strengths and how to package yourself so you are a competitive applicant for your programs" post.

FIT more than anything else is what gets people placed in programs. Grades show a track record. Letters of recommendation vouch for your abilities. Research shows knowledge in the field and developing skills. Applied experience can shower a greater depth of understanding.....but in the end it is about how you FIT with the professor/program you are applying to.

There are many qualified applicants out there (way more than make the cut), but what makes Candidate A get the spot of Candidate B is not the extra 6 months of RA'ing or an extra class they took their junior year of undergrad, but instead how they fit better in with what the program was looking for.

You won't know a lot of the time what the program wants, but you can do some legwork to find out more information about the programs, labs, professors, research, etc. I think one of the major advantages a non-traditional student has over someone right out of school is that they may be able to navigate the back-waters of academia better, and be more comfortable talking with the right people, be more poised to ask the hard questions, and have the confidence to trust in your abilities to make tough choices. I am biases since I was a non-trad of sorts, but I think maturity and experience can make up the gap in some of the applied knowledge because you can always teach applied knowledge, but you can't always teach maturity and experience. This isn't a knock on people coming right from undergrad, but I've seen a difference in the comfort level of some faculty with slightly older students compared to younger students. I know I've been approached by multiple faculty because of skill sets I picked up before grad school (managing large-scale projects, my presentation ability, my ability to produce under deadline, etc.) Sometimes I forget that pre-grad school I was pretty damn good at what I did, and the insecurity many non-trads feel because they have been 'out of the loop' is misplaced.

So identify your strengths, understand your areas that you need to improve upon, and look at how you can package that so you can be the answer to a lab's question of who they think can fill an important role in their program.

Oh, and try to work smarter, not harder......with age comes wisdom, or something like that.

-t

 

[PizzaButt]

I have about 12 hours of psych credits, that I took between the time I decided to change careers (this spring) and now. I was not a psych major in undergrad so I needed to take a bunch of stuff now. I included stats and research methods in these classes. For the schools I'm applying to, it's enough, though I will be taking classes this winter as well, while my applications are being processed.

I am not taking the psych GRE--I just don't have time right now and most of my schools don't require it. I'm hoping that taking a bunch of pre-reqs will be okay instead of taking the psych GRE. I'll probably take it if I have to re-apply.

I have some recent research experience and some recent clinical work, but both are just part-time. I have an RA job that I started in the late spring, that is part-time.

My biggest application issue is the schools I'm applying to. Because of my husband's preferences (i.e. where he thinks he can find a job), I'm limited to the larger metropolitan areas, which also seem to have the schools with the lowest admission rates. So pretty much every school I'm applying to is like a 1 in 20 chance of acceptance. This is scary, and the big reason why I'm not feeling optimistic about my admissions chances.

I'm also concered about what I'm going to discuss in my personal statement. Like I said before, I have some exposure to psychology--the pre-req classes, my RA job in psych, clinical experience, and tons of informational interviews with psychologists in a variety of settings, but I still don't really know what my research interests are or how to discuss why I'm interested in them. This is the part of my application that I really need help with. Any tips/suggestions about that?

Thanks!

 

[socialcog]

I'm also concered about what I'm going to discuss in my personal statement. Like I said before, I have some exposure to psychology--the pre-req classes, my RA job in psych, clinical experience, and tons of informational interviews with psychologists in a variety of settings, but I still don't really know what my research interests are or how to discuss why I'm interested in them. This is the part of my application that I really need help with. Any tips/suggestions about that?

Thanks!

First off I am not applying to clinical, but I am a clinician professionally. In your PS, shouldn't you mention an area of clinical (pathology, trauma, family/relationships) that you are particularly interested in empirically? I think you should start by finding what faculty are researching at the schools you are applying to. See what they are researching in their lab. Then, somehow, get a hold of their research and read it and develop a way to speak intelligently about it. Get familiar with certain bits of their work (a paradigm they use, what the findings tend to suggest repeatedly...etc). In your PS, you could talk about your own research interests in terms of what interested you the most in the research you read about.

From there, you might be able to glean from that some broader research interest that might develop into some future research goal and write about that.

This is hard. Hang in there. 😉

 

[danzgymn86]

I have about 12 hours of psych credits, that I took between the time I decided to change careers (this spring) and now. I was not a psych major in undergrad so I needed to take a bunch of stuff now. I included stats and research methods in these classes.

Research methods IS a Psych course, but stats is not. Regular Stats is just a pre-req for research methods. It does not calculate into your Psych GPA. ...at least at my school, it doesn't.

 

[terrybug]

It seems like psych depts. look favorably on returning students who have law degrees. And that's not just in legal psych departments, either.

I applied after being out of school for 13 years and got in, so yes it's possible. I applied to 22 schools, maybe 5 of which were very strong matches (the rest were just interesting professors doing research I could see myself doing) and I'm now a 1st year at the school where I had the strongest or 2nd strongest match.

Most schools will be skeptical of someone who *suddenly* decided to switch careers - just think about all the applications they'll be getting from kids who were born and raised to get PhD's in clinical psych. We are definitely dark horses in this race compared to applicants who have been doing NOTHING BUT PSYCH since high school. I'm just suggesting your argument will need to be pretty persuasive because getting a PhD is a marathon endeavor, not a sprint. Schools don't want to accept people who won't finish the program or take forever to hit all the milestones. That makes them look bad and they will probably be very conservative about taking a risk on an outsider application.

I volunteered my time for free as an RA at 2 labs for about 1.5 years before applying to schools. I think this showed my level of dedication. I got 2 LoR's from the 2 PI's and then I had to decide between getting a letter from the head of the counseling center where I'd been leading groups or a letter from one of my college profs. The advice I got was to stick with academia, so I called up my prof who I hadn't talked to in about 13 years and asked if he could update the original LoR he had written for me back then.

If I hadn't gotten in his year, I would have been depressed for a few weeks but then I would have focused on getting more RA experience, more pubs, more conference experience, etc. and making my application completely unstoppable the next time around. if it doesn't work out for you this time, just know that the whole process is very tough and if you are sincere about getting into a program, you'll find a way to get more experience and apply again next year - and it will probably pay off because you'll prove your dedication to those schools that might have been interested in you the 1st time around but questioned your dedication.

best of luck

 

[PizzaButt]

Thanks for all your replies, they've been very helpful.

For those non-trads who are career changers, how did you discuss your previous career and why you want to make the switch? The thing is, I don't have anything positive to say about my previous career. I don't know how to discuss why I made the switch and what I'm interested in now. For instance, if I was interested in forensic psych, well then that would make for a logical and coherent personal statement. But my research interests have nothing to do with law. I am really stressing about this, and I don't have an advisor or anyone to help with this. Any suggestions?

Thank you!