Non-trad reapplying, need advice on pre-med advisor and gap year

[premed23456]

Hey all,

I'm a nontrad student mainly because I have a DUI conviction and an academic violation from 2010 which required me to take as much time as possible to prove myself. In the meantime, I've graduated with a double-major in Biology and Spanish, clocked in hundreds of hours of healthcare volunteer experience, did a research grad degree of a masters in molecular biology, held multiple leadership positions, founded a student org, did vaccine research at the NIH, and went abroad to do public health work on a prestigious public health fellowship for a year. I have a ugpa of 3.33, science gpa of 2.98, grad gpa of 3.87, and MCAT score of 512 (88th percentile).

I applied to med school in 2016 and received 2 interviews, yet ended up rejected from both. I'm preparing to reapply but my pre-med advisor is currently discouraging me from reapplying, saying that the stigma of being a reapplicant in addition to the stigma already on my application is insurmountable. I will still reapply since I am not ready to give up on my lifelong goal after just one application cycle. I need some advice:

1. In my situation, would you say that a postbac is more suitable or an SMP?
2. Do you think that a postbac or an SMP is worth doing in my gap year, in order to increase my chances of getting in? Since I can't change the incidents on my record, I figured that targeting my other weakness, my GPA, would be best to do next year before reapplying.
3. Do med schools look down upon a DIY post-bac vs a formal post-bac program?
4. Should I reapply right away this year (2017), or should I take another year off and then reapply in 2018? 2018 would be the last year that I can use my MCAT score before it expires.
5. I am 4 years out of undergrad but my undergrad premed office still offers alumni their services of writing committee letters. Given this info, would you say that it's better to still apply with a committee letter, or do you think it's possible for me to get in without a committee letter this time around? The reason I ask is because I don't want to chance having a poor committee letter.

Thank you so much community! Looking forward to your thoughts.

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[gyngyn]

1. Either could work. An SMP is higher risk (you must perform well).
2. If you do either, it would be more effective to apply when the fruit of your labor is woven into your primary application. That would mean sitting out at least one application cycle.
3. They are both fine.
4. See 2 above.
5. It is common to see no committee letter from those who are more than a few years out from graduation.

 

[premed23456]

Thank you for your feedback! If doing a SMP vs post-bac doesn't really matter as you advise, then I'll go forth with researching my options and seeing what works best for me in terms of med school linkage and the tuition costs. It seems like doing a DIY-postbac often ends up being cheaper, so I'm leaning towards that. However, does it matter if I do that through a community college or a 4-year institution?

Also, as for question #2, do you think that aiming to raise my GPA at least a little should be my goal during this gap year? Or do you think there is a different weakness in my profile that is more worthwhile to spend my time fixing?

 

[gyngyn]

However, does it matter if I do that through a community college or a 4-year institution?

Also, as for question #2, do you think that aiming to raise my GPA at least a little should be my goal during this gap year? Or do you think there is a different weakness in my profile that is more worthwhile to spend my time fixing?

CC is a common route for post bac courses. The schools that are likely to look closely at your application won't mind.
What is your state of residence?
Trend is going to be the saving grace of your application. How many units went into that Sgpa?

 

[premed23456]

My state of residence is VA. The Sgpa consists of 69 hours. The graudate Sgpa (3.87) consists of 31 hours, if that matters at all (I assume it doesn't, just throwing it out there).

Yes, I hope that the continued trend of keeping my act together, showing leadership, and testing my character along with an upward trend in grades will help me. Thank you for your input @gyngyn.

Anyone else have anything to add? Thank you all in advance!

 

[gyngyn]

My state of residence is VA. The Sgpa consists of 69 hours. The graudate Sgpa (3.87) consists of 31 hours, if that matters at all (I assume it doesn't, just throwing it out there).

Yes, I hope that the continued trend of keeping my act together, showing leadership, and testing my character along with an upward trend in grades will help me. Thank you for your input @gyngyn.

Anyone else have anything to add? Thank you all in advance!

Ouch! It would take a long time to get that over 3.0...
Yes, you are going to have to commit to a very strong post bac or SMP.
VA is the toughest state in the South at only 21% IS matriculation, but you will may get some regional attention.

 

[sammiesings]

I'm not sure why no one has mentioned this yet, but how are your interview skills? Two outright rejections post-interview seems odd. Were they schools that typically outright reject a good portion of interviewees or something? Otherwise, think about how you come across in interviews.

 

[Localnative]

Hey all,

I'm a nontrad student mainly because I have a DUI conviction and an academic violation from 2010 which required me to take as much time as possible to prove myself. In the meantime, I've graduated with a double-major in Biology and Spanish, clocked in hundreds of hours of healthcare volunteer experience, did a research grad degree of a masters in molecular biology, held multiple leadership positions, founded a student org, did vaccine research at the NIH, and went abroad to do public health work on a prestigious public health fellowship for a year. I have a ugpa of 3.33, science gpa of 2.89, grad gpa of 3.87, and MCAT score of 512 (88th percentile).

I applied to med school in 2016 and received 2 interviews, yet ended up rejected from both. I'm preparing to reapply but my pre-med advisor is currently discouraging me from reapplying, saying that the stigma of being a reapplicant in addition to the stigma already on my application is insurmountable. I will still reapply since I am not ready to give up on my lifelong goal after just one application cycle. I need some advice:

1. In my situation, would you say that a postbac is more suitable or an SMP?
2. Do you think that a postbac or an SMP is worth doing in my gap year, in order to increase my chances of getting in? Since I can't change the incidents on my record, I figured that targeting my other weakness, my GPA, would be best to do next year before reapplying.
3. Do med schools look down upon a DIY post-bac vs a formal post-bac program?
4. Should I reapply right away this year (2017), or should I take another year off and then reapply in 2018? 2018 would be the last year that I can use my MCAT score before it expires.
5. I am 4 years out of undergrad but my undergrad premed office still offers alumni their services of writing committee letters. Given this info, would you say that it's better to still apply with a committee letter, or do you think it's possible for me to get in without a committee letter this time around? The reason I ask is because I don't want to chance having a poor committee letter.

Thank you so much community! Looking forward to your thoughts.

Jumping the gun here.... wouldn't a DUI conviction present a challenge during application for medical licensure?

 

[premed23456]

Ouch! It would take a long time to get that over 3.0...

Ah! I just realized that on my original post, I put "2.89" as my sGPA instead of 2.98. My actual sGPA is 2.98, I apologize for the confusion! I went back and changed it on the original post just now. With a 2.98, I suppose it shouldn't take too long to get it 3.0, but of course I should still shoot for the highest sGPA I can get above 3.0. Thank you for the continued advice everyone. I will look into and apply to post-bacs and SMPs that I am eligible for now. However, in which scenario would you choose an SMP over a post-bacc and vice-versa? These two types of programs and their respective purposes confuse me a bit, so if you have any insight would be greatly appreciated so that I can choose what is best for my scenario.

I'm not sure why no one has mentioned this yet, but how are your interview skills? Two outright rejections post-interview seems odd. Were they schools that typically outright reject a good portion of interviewees or something? Otherwise, think about how you come across in interviews.

You're right, it may be that my interview skills are not up to par, although I usually feel my best during the interview part of any application process, and these 2 interviews were no different. I loved meeting people at these schools, touring the school, and doing the actual interviews and did not feel like anything went wrong. I studied each school extensively before interviewing and participated in 2 mock interviews. I do have an issue of being too verbose sometimes though, and maybe other issues I have not realized. Next time I will aim to do more mock interviews, actually videotape myself like everyone suggests, and be more meticulous in my interview prep. On the other hand, it could be that these 2 schools saw my application and decided to take a chance on me, and then just denied me in the end because of the 2 violations on my record and the GPA issues.

Jumping the gun here.... wouldn't a DUI conviction present a challenge during application for medical licensure?

I've thought about and researched on this extensively. From what I have found, it will depend on the state so I will just have to find a state that is friendly toward my application. For example, for California, I have seen that a single felony DUI, or more than one misdemeanor DUI (mine is a misdemeanor), may affect the physician’s license, leading to discipline. I am talking to a lawyer about this topic on Friday, actually so that I can be more informed. I have additionally heard that when medical schools make decisions on applicants they also think about this very question, and will not accept those who they do not think are worth investing in because they will be unable to practice later.

Lastly, as of last night, my pre-med advisor threw another curve ball in my reapplication process. This is the pre-med advisor that discouraged me from reapplying. When I told her that I want to reapply and asked her the same questions I asked on this thread, she said-- fine you can reapply but there is no point in waiting until 2018 to reapply since you will be delaying your alternate career path if you do this, and there is no point right now in trying to improve your academics. She said to just get a job related to an alternate career path, continue volunteering and getting some healthcare exposure, and reapply this year. This is very different advice from what I've gotten from anyone else so far about how to best apply for medical school. Judging by my interactions with her in the past 4-5 years and this advice, I personally think that she has little faith in me. It sounds like she is preparing me for failure already since she is focusing this much on my alternate career instead of giving me the advice that would help me create the best application possible for medical school. I see all over SDN about discouraging pre-med advisors, and pre-meds who go forth with their plan anyway and end up being succeeding in medical school admissions. From what I know, oftentimes advisors have special interests in keeping their admissions numbers high, only encouraging the most promising candidates while doing the opposite to the others. I feel like that is my situation right now. Is this assessment of her response and my situation wrong?

I am inclined to politely suggest to her the advice you all have given me, of sitting out a year while I work on my GPA and then reapplying in 2018, since I am pretty convinced that her advice may not be right for me. What do you guys think? Also, apologies that this post is long and thank you for reading!

 

[Localnative]

i practice in FL. i have colleagues with a distant past of run -ins with substance abuse issues and their legal ramifications. after going through mandated counseling, CE, etc they were able to obtain licenses, some with restrictions. Nonetheless, they area able to practice and live a productive financially successful work life.

You sound like you have done many things to redeem yourself. Think about where the premed advisor is coming from. perhaps she has alot of experience advising, however she is still at the college level. best bet is to talk with med school ad people, board of med reps and an attorney skilled in the area.

10 yrs from now this should all be an afterthought minus any ego deflating educational/counseling stuff that you will have to do to satisfy the big guys. Remember, you don't actually own that license once its in your hands. Its on loan by the Board of Medicine and they are granting you the privilege to practice your craft. So practice safe conservative medicine/surgery, stay under their radar, and always do the right thing! I even know of one doc who is on the Board who has a similar past. Anything is possible my friend.

M

 

[premed23456]

OKAY so I just realized today that my MCAT score may be expiring.. I took it in Aug 2015 and if I were to sit out a cycle of applications and apply in 2018 for entry in fall 2019, then I've read on here that at most schools, they only accept scores that are within 3 years of matriculation date, making my MCAT score too old. Is this right? If so, I can now either choose to apply this year with the current score or sit out this year, re-take it, and apply next cycle. The thought of re-taking it is dreadful so I'm inclined to apply this cycle. Do you still think I should sit out a cycle before re-applying despite having to re-take the MCAT?

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Are you applying to DO schools?

 

[premed23456]

Yes but not enough. I only applied to 3 last time, alongside 16 MD schools that I think were out of my reach to start with. If I improve my school list, I think I may have a better shot.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

You should be applying to mostly DOs with that GPA.