Non-Trad "Secrets" of Application Success

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you think it would be a wise thing to send copies of my publications to schools? there was no place to cite them in the application. and what would you write in an update letter? that youre interested in the school?

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you think it would be a wise thing to send copies of my publications to schools? there was no place to cite them in the application. and what would you write in an update letter? that youre interested in the school?
I would not send anything that a school did not specifically request from you without first asking for their permission. Call each school (or email them) and ask if they would accept a list of your pubs (references) and/or the actual reprints themselves. However, I think you're better off bringing copies of the actual articles with you to interviews rather than swamping your file with them.

An update letter will tell the school about new activities, grades, or other things about your app that have changed since you submitted it. For example, if you published a new paper, you could update the school about it. My opinion is that update letters can be helpful if the activity is a relevant EC, grades, etc. But if you don't have anything new to add to your file, then you are probably talking about writing a letter of interest or intent. It's debatable how much those even help, but I think that September is a bit early to be writing them, especially considering that no acceptances have even gone out yet for regular decision!
 
thanks Q. I recently had a paper published about a significant discovery in alzheimers that made the news all over the country. maybe i could let them know about that.
 
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thanks Q. I recently had a paper published about a significant discovery in alzheimers that made the news all over the country. maybe i could let them know about that.
Congrats, and I don't blame you for wanting to let the schools know about that little EC. :) But I'd still contact them and find out what each schools prefers that you do to update your file. :luck: to you. :)
 
What if a non traditional applicant has High GPA (both science and Total)...graduated top of his class at an ivy league school and completed u of penn post bacc. with a high GPA. Work experience for two and a half years with a rad. onc. company that is global....member of many honor societies in college.....shadowed physicians and 30 or above on MCAT.....Excellent LOR.....

But not tons of EC's like the rest of you. Is that still ok???? It is too late I guess if it is not ok....
 
What if a non traditional applicant has High GPA (both science and Total)...graduated top of his class at an ivy league school and completed u of penn post bacc. with a high GPA. Work experience for two and a half years with a rad. onc. company that is global....member of many honor societies in college.....shadowed physicians and 30 or above on MCAT.....Excellent LOR.....

But not tons of EC's like the rest of you. Is that still ok???? It is too late I guess if it is not ok....

No volunteer experience whatsoever, even non-health volunteering? If not, I think you're still in a great position for most schools, but some (like Loyola) definitely want to see community service/volunteer experience. Regardless, just apply broadly and don't sweat it. :luck:
 
What if a non traditional applicant has High GPA (both science and Total)...graduated top of his class at an ivy league school and completed u of penn post bacc. with a high GPA. Work experience for two and a half years with a rad. onc. company that is global....member of many honor societies in college.....shadowed physicians and 30 or above on MCAT.....Excellent LOR.....

But not tons of EC's like the rest of you. Is that still ok???? It is too late I guess if it is not ok....
If you have no health care related experience, then yes, that will probably be an issue for you. But, it sounds like you do, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned. Quality matters more than quantity. :)
 
Hi all.

I am a third year medical student at USF COM and remember being in your shoes a few years ago. Although everyone's experiences, I thought I would make some general recommendations to help non-trads succeed in the med school application process as well as first year of medical school itself.

The application
1. Showcase your unique attributes and experiences in your application- this is how you will shine and get into an MD/DO program.
-I was a lawyer and I used that in my PS and my application.
-if you are a medical artist, RN, MBA/financial consultant etc, use that experience to show what you will add to a medical school class.
-older students should have a very refined and well-written statement.

2. The personal statement should be elegant, engaging and very well written
-we are older, have more experience to draw upon- we therefore have more to choose from.
-Make sure that the statement is interesting and explains why you are choosing medicine as opposed to your other career and why you are making the switch now.
-a good PS takes months to prepare and will involve multiple drafts.
-Have a doctor look at it. Have a professor (PhD) in science look at it. Have an english/humanities person look at it. Have a regular person read it. Remember the ADCOMs are composed of many different types of people. Different things appeal to different people.
-I will do my best to look at PS when I have time but I am on third year so I won't always be able to get to them in a timely manner.

3. Science GPA
-maybe you have some classes from undergrad and do not have a high sci GPA, if this is the case, consider doing a post-bac program. It can be a formal or informal program.
-if you do not have science classes, you will need to enroll in a post-bac program.

4. Formal v. informal post-bac
-formal post bac programs have experience in dealing with older students and can help you tailor your application. Some programs are very expensive and have absolute requirements with respect to admission (UGPA 3.0 or higher). They generally have a composite letter from your various courses and have more in the way of formal guidance.
-informal programs are just a college or community college where you take courses and chart your own course. There may be a premed advisor but their experience with older students may be greatly variable. These programs are often cheaper and may have evening classes that permit you to continue working full-time and are very good for students with families or who have obligations and cannot go to school fulltime during the day.

5. MCAT
-this is often the slayer of older students' medical school dreams. Take it very seriously.
-I recommend examcrackers for students whose backgrounds are not in english to help conquer the verbal section. For those of you with humanities background, it will help you master the section.
-Formal prep courses are what you put into them and also are variable. The Kaplan course I attended in NYC was horrible because our lecturer was horrible. Ask around in your city for a good lecturer.

6. LORs
-Lay the groundwork for these from day 1. Research your professor. Know what they wrote- books/articles and speak to them about it. Let them get to know you.
-when possible, take more than 1 course with the same professor or some research with the professor- this way they can speak to your abilities in multiple courses and this will have more weight.
-I believe DO programs require that you shadow a DO and it is usually helpful to have a letter from a DO. However, someone more knowledgeable than I can speak to this.
-Get as many good LORs as you can. If a professor asks you to write your own letter, take this as an opportunity not a slight. If you do not have a sample, PM me and I will send you the template that I used and you will need to alter for your background.

7. ECs
-show leadership- medical schools want future leaders in the profession. We are responsible for working with/directing a team of nurses, techs, residents, students etc. You need to show you will be a good leader and a good team player at the same time.
-if a club does not exist at your school start it. This is the quickest way to get leadership points. I started an international medical relief team at my post-bac program, which raised medical supplies and donations for hospitals in the third world.

8. Clinical experience
-this can be tricky to work into an already busy schedule. However, the emergency department is open 24 hours/day. You can do a shift at 3 in the morning or on a weekend.
-EMT/paramedic- this was a great experience if you can work it into your schedule. I took a class in NYC on Thursday evenings and Sundays for four months. I then volunteered as an EMT with a volunteer squad.

9. Research
-If you can fit it in, so much the better.
-this is the icing on the cake. Clinical research is generally easier and quicker to get involved in than basic science or lab research.
-contact the research directors of the various hospital departments and you will be amazed at the number of projects that are ongoing.
-make sure you know what the rules are in advance of committing to a project (i.e., will you be an author- if not, it can still be a valuable experience but know where you stand going in).

First year medical school
10. Preparation
-Regardless of whether your post-bac program requires it, take anatomy and physiology. This will help you considerably as most of the other students in the class will have had this and it is much easier to learn the second time around. Biochem is also useful.
 
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Q, how do you ask the permission to use employment letter for the non-scicence faculty letter. Did you just ask them when you send in the supplementary application? or you asked beforehand to get their permission.

Use an employer instead of a teacher who doesn't know you as well. I have been out of school for ten years now so I really didn't have access to my old science profs anymore. I used two letters from employers among my three. If you have two science profs, DO use them. Not having two has meant dropping a lot of schools for me, but I do have two interviews in the back so it's not a total black mark. Get people who know you well and can speak well of you both as a student and as a person.
 
Hi! I am new member to SDN. I am 29 years old and have been a biology and chemistry high school teacher for the past 7 years. I have always wanted to pursue medical school, but have been an "active procrastinator." Anyway, I have recently taken the MCAT, and my scores certainly need improvement. I studied independently for the exam, using the Exam Kracker review materials. I was scoring higher on the practice exams than I did on the actual exam, by about 5 points. I think I had a bit of a meltdown during the exam. Test anxiety caused me to manage my time ineffectively, and lose my focus throughout the exam. I am not sure if I should take a review course to learn strategies to deal with such anxieties and improve my confidence on test day, or see somebody (therapist, etc.) about my test anxiety problem. Has anyone out there had similar problems? Any advice?

In addition, can anyone recommend a good test prep company, specifically geared toward the new CBT? I was having timing problems even on the practice exams.

Thanks for your help!
 
In addition, can anyone recommend a good test prep company, specifically geared toward the new CBT? I was having timing problems even on the practice exams.

I am happy to tell you about the strategy I used that worked for me. First, I took a Kaplan MCAT classroom course. I found that the quality of the classroom component varied according to who was teaching that day. Some teachers had a lot of energy and humor, and others seemed to drain the room of energy.

By far the MOST important aspect of the Kaplan course for me was the online practice materials. The Kaplan online syllabus had a ton of practice materials. More than I think would be humanly possible to do. Every chapter had online pre-chapter intros and post-chapter quizzes. Plus there were online sections tests and subject tests. Lots of them. Best of all, there were ten or twelve Kaplan-designed full-length tests, AND eight (?) AAMC-produced online tests. Basically, Kaplan purchased the rights to all of the online AAMC tests that are available for purchase on the AAMC website, and included them in the cost of the course.

Kaplan provided so many online practice test materials that I felt thoroughly familiar with the CBT format long before my test date. I felt saturated with CBT. Really. :/ I supplemented my study with the ExamKrackers books and other random books inherited from friends. I sometimes found that these other books explained concepts differently from Kaplan. Repetition was crucial for me, and seeing the same ideas explained from mulitple angles helped drill in the concepts.

In the three weeks or so leading up to the test, I did a full-length Kaplan or AAMC test every second or third day. (All of this was online). Towards the end, I was happy with the range I was scoring in, and I felt pretty confident that I had the stamina to take the test. My actual score ended up being a point higher than the high end of my range. I was pleased beyond belief.

My strategy is just one strategy... there are certainly other approaches out there, and there are lots of variants on the approach I used. I am sure you can find a ton of useful information in the MCAT Forum, especially on the "Secrets of MCAT Success" thread. As you peruse that thread, I think you will quickly see some common themes, including being very familiar with the basic concepts, repetition, and taking lots of full-length exams.


Test anxiety caused me to manage my time ineffectively, and lose my focus throughout the exam. I am not sure if I should take a review course to learn strategies to deal with such anxieties and improve my confidence on test day, or see somebody (therapist, etc.) about my test anxiety problem. Has anyone out there had similar problems? Any advice?.

Talking with someone who has experience helping people with text anxiety sounds like it could only be beneficial, especially if you have had test anxiety in the past.
 
thanks for your response. i appreciate you taking out the time to respond so thoroughly and thoughtfully.

i'll look into kaplan, although, my one fear is paying the insanely high price to take the course and then wind up with a poor instructor! did they give you helpful tips for pacing the cbt?
 
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thanks for your response. i appreciate you taking out the time to respond so thoroughly and thoughtfully.

i'll look into kaplan, although, my one fear is paying the insanely high price to take the course and then wind up with a poor instructor! did they give you helpful tips for pacing the cbt?

I know what you mean about the cost of the Kaplan course. Ouch. I don't want to sound too hard on the instructors... they all had a solid understanding of the material. It's just that some were a lot more engaging in their delivery than others.

The course instructors did offer a number of tips about pacing. I ended up not really using their pacing guidelines, but I think it's very useful to try them and see if they work for you.

I believe Kaplan offers an online-only prep course that includes all the online practice materials, minus the live classroom instruction. I think that package costs significantly less than the classroom version, and it might be a very good value.

I wish you the best of luck! :luck: I was petrified of the MCAT before I started, but it IS managable. Give yourself a lot of time before your test date to try out different timing and pacing strategies on section tests and full-length exams. I am sure you will find a strategy that works for you. As you see the same concepts and questions over and over and over, the material starts to coalesce, and I think you will find yourself handling the passages more quickly and fluidly.
 
thanks for your response. i appreciate you taking out the time to respond so thoroughly and thoughtfully.

i'll look into kaplan, although, my one fear is paying the insanely high price to take the course and then wind up with a poor instructor! did they give you helpful tips for pacing the cbt?

The best advice about timing that I received was not allowing yourself to get "stuck" on a passage.
How to do that? Trust the "mark" features on CBT, and use it whenever you are spending more than a minute or so on a given question. The e-mcats put out by AAMC will break down how much time you spent on questions (in the results at the end), and I distinctly remember, for myself, the more time I looked at the question, the more likely I answered it wrong.

If as you practice, you mark questions which are time drains, then you are also automatically marking questions for review/study.

If you're stuck in verbal, read, read, read (Russian novels, biographies, the NY Times), maybe take a lit class.

In the "real thing" I didn't take my own advice and got really hung up in the PS on a passage, and almost didn't finish -I think, given my score, that passage had to have been experimental and not counted, or I got really lucky.

I just couldn't make myself spend the cash on Kaplan, but took most of my prereqs shortly before the exam.:luck:
 
thanks for your response. i appreciate you taking out the time to respond so thoroughly and thoughtfully.

i'll look into kaplan, although, my one fear is paying the insanely high price to take the course and then wind up with a poor instructor! did they give you helpful tips for pacing the cbt?

I forgot to mention the one Kaplan pacing tip that I did always use. On the PS and BS sections, I always did the discrete questions first, then the passages. I found the discrete questions to be a nice way to "warm up." They frequently seemed more straighforward to me, and they helped build my confidence going into the passages. Plus, it felt nice to be able to periodically click past chunks of completed questions while working through the passages.

I have heard other people say they liked working through the PS and BS sections as written. These folks found the discrete questions to give them a bit of a mental break from the passages.

Try both strategies and see what works for you! :luck:
 
Wow. Thanks Q!

Shame none of your background will ever apply to me; I spent my 20s doing a whole other career and building a portfolio as a graphic artist. I spent my off time just playing AD&D/other games (anyone here who is a gamer/ex-gamer/acquainted with gamers, will know how much of a lifesuck these games are), going to sci-fi conventions, wearing goth makeup, taking the occasional class, and generally being a slacker. I had ADHD type issues (still no formal diagnosis though), and long-term depression, and didn't feel good about my work.

I'm still two years away from transferring to UC Davis (because of major change; I was an art major and am now a science major). Really. Medicine is the *only* thing I have ever felt serious about and really felt good about. I did poorly on some of my jobs because I would spend the whole day reading PathGuy and science/disease stuff on the internet. I did well in school when I went, but I spent my off time trying to be a graphic artist and playing AD&D, not getting ECs. Not only that, all of my resume-building experiences were aimed at graphic arts, not medicine or science. I wasn't very successful at my career, and eventually I went back to school and decided to pursue something else.

My life didn't turn around until I 1) started getting therapy and medication for the depression, 2) started actually taking advantage of school services like tutoring, and 3) actually resolved to change careers. I'm now coming off the medication and my life is changed.

So I am 32, but am in the same situation now that a 22 year old would be. Unfortunately, I'm going to be judged as a 30something, not as a 20something.

If I wanted to go the Masters/Ph.D. route I would probably be 60 by the time I started med school.

How to spin my past now that I AM a serious person, is a good question. I don't have a great work history (I was a contractor and worked intermittently, then after the dot-bomb, didn't work at all sometimes for two years at a stretch) nor do I have any kind of resume-building experiences.

I mention this because for every two nontrad students like you (very serious in their 20s) there has got to be at least one like me... or at least I hope...

I still do graphics a lot. It's a hobby at this point, and it'll never again be a career. I took a lot of my phlebotomy and EMT notes in pictures, and when I have to do presentations, they usually have lots of illustrations. The last had illustrations of heart and lungs and was a powerpoint presentation about Congestive Heart Failure.


I know exactly how you feel Third...im pretty much in the same situation...my life has been consumed with nothing special except my daughter. I decided a year ago that I should stop pretending that i want to be a nurse (no offense) because I knew I wouldnt be content with that career choice. So I lingered in undergrad for about five years or so, still not sure with what I wanted to do but only doing what everyone in my family wanted me to do....Become a Nurse.
I felt really alone when I realized what I wanted to do. I constantly struggle with being the single mom physican hopeful. So now I'm determined to finish the best way I know how. I also don't have any really good life experiences that non-trads are suppose to have. But reading your post made me feel a whole lot better as I'm and not the only one with a not so Special NON-trad life. So thank you and good luck. I see both of us entering the medical world as Excellent Docs. (and that goes for every NON-Trad student)

PunkmedGirl:)
 
This is a great site. Everything i have read is incredible and really gives me some hope. However i do have a few questions for the other Non- trads that have made this trip.

How many of you have prior EMS experience and how did it help you? Aside from the obvious? Did you just use it as a EC or did you make a career choice of it before moving on?

I have been a MICT/paramedic for 3ys and involved in EMS/Firefighting since 1992. I have also been teaching EMS, CPR, and canned courses ( ACLS, PALS, NRP, ect) for a couple yrs. just seeing what others of you have done before taking the big step. This may not be the topic for it but i have been looking and haven't seen where this may have been covered before.

Thank you all for your time
 
Just a few thoughts on the PS...
I know that I had a hard time writing mine for my med school application (and an even harder time writing one for my residency applications during the time crunch of med school). I had a hard time getting my ideas together, and as others have mentioned, keeping it from being too "cute" or down-right cheesy.
Lots of posters here have recommended having multiple people review your ps, but another great idea is to have a professional essay editor work on it. If you google it, there are lots of companies that come up. A national med student group that I'm a member of recommended essayedge.com, and I had great luck with them. Got a lot of complements on my PS. I used their brainstorming services too to generate an outline to write from. While it's a little expensive, when I compared it to all of my other application expenses and considered the peace of mind it gave me, it was well worth it.
Good luck to everyone:luck:
 
I agree entirely with TarHeel. I thought Kaplan did a great job of mapping out the test and letting you know what to expect, and gave good tips like the one TH mentioned about doing discretes first. That said, I also found the teaching to be spotty -- sometimes good, sometimes a grind. If I had been looking for a review of the material, and not for an overview of how to take the test, I think I could have done better elsewhere. I also found it hard to to swallow the Kaplan kool-aid about passage mapping -- they land on that technique very hard, and it never really worked for me. I've met others for whom it worked wonderfully, so I'm not criticizing -- but you really have to put your trust in Kaplan, and put real hours into practicing that method.

Like TarHeel, the thing about Kaplan I really appreciated was the practice material. They provide huge amounts, more than you could possibly use, as TH said. I obsessively took full-length practice tests every weekend starting about 12 weeks out from my test date, with other mini-tests in between. Kaplan does a pretty good job of explaining all your wrong answers, too, so I found it helpful not to simply look at my score, but review each question and understand why I had missed it.

I did do few of the most recent tests from AAMC -- which I recommend, since I felt the format turned out to be a little closer to the actual online test.

Once the test date rolled around, my practice-test scores were pretty consistently in a range I felt comfortable with, and my actual MCAT reflected these. I definitely chalk that up to practicing the test ... in a rather Rain-Man like fashion, I'll admit, but whatever works, right?

I think if I were to do it again, I would have bought the online version of Kaplan and saved myself, what, $600? If you have the motivation to structure your own study time, you may not find the classroom experience worth the money. Just my two-cents worth.
 
there is no magic potion for medical school admission.

about me....
i was a history major as an undergrad who gave up on the science pre-meds at a school to remain nameless because i was tired of fighting with cut throat classmates and disinterested professors.
graduated with a bachelors 2001
finished paramedic school 2004
post bacc 2004 to present
applied 2006 and 2007
accepted in march to two osteopathic schools
it took 13 years from when i decided i wanted to be a doctor in high school.

my ultimately successful route was to work as an EMT and later paramedic, complete paramedic school and a science post bacc program, MCAT and apply. i had to apply twice, the first year i was waitlisted and couldn't get off of it. the second year i took more classes and applied far and wide. my biggest suggestion would be to apply at a TON of schools, allopathic and osteopathic since they both seem to look for different things. i interviewed at both. but i found osteopathic schools where definitely more open to my background (of the 6 secondaries i completed i interviewed at 5 and was either accepted or waitlisted.) i got in to my first choice osteopathic school, PCOM. i haven't heard from the state allopathic school. it is my overall first choice but only due to financial reasons (ie save 80000 over 4 years).

the moral of the story...
you have to have a thick skin about rejections and keep the faith. look at the numbers, lots of people have to get rejected. good people. 21 interviews from 22 apps is RARE. i have two friends with great post bacc GPAs (3.8, 3.9) and MCATs of 38. they both got a ton of rejections to go with a bunch of interviews and acceptances. if you want it and work hard it will be obvious in your application and someone WILL notice. it might take a year or two or even more but if you believe your calling is in medicine it will be worth it in the end.
 
Thanks for sharing! That was really uplifting to hear! At times, this path gets ROUGH....... Good to be reminded of the worth of working hard to reach our goals! I'm gonna keep on keepin' on! :D
 
Here's another suggestion for those of you trying to strengthen your application: Get an MPH

There are now many MPH programs available online. There may be some part-time programs in your area. You can get an MPH while you're working and use this to prove your interest in healthcare.

Additionally, an MPH may help you when you're looking for residency opportunities and/or specialty fellowships. So, the investment may have lasting impacts.
 
Thank you all for the advice, inspiration, and the contributions and clarifications of hyperbole. They are all invaluable to those of us in the early stages of non traditional jockeying towards a medical education.

I've read hundreds of posts and threads that all lead to the same point, and I'm hoping to try and distill the question to a more elemental state: We are all compensating for something - no exceptions - and yet some of us more than others. The message is murky at best about whether there is hope for those of us without perfect records, and nobody wants a gilded lily. So, if you are AVERAGE on paper, and in some areas (ahem, math based science) how, and with what approach can you ever hope to have the opportunity to show the adcoms that you are anything but average in practice?

I'm really looking forward to see what those ahead of me think. Recall that Newton is quoted as saying that, "If I have seen a little further, it is only having stood on the shoulders of giants." Help me get a clear view!
 
The message is murky at best about whether there is hope for those of us without perfect records, and nobody wants a gilded lily. So, if you are AVERAGE on paper, and in some areas (ahem, math based science) how, and with what approach can you ever hope to have the opportunity to show the adcoms that you are anything but average in practice?

Despite what the lunatics in pre-allo would have you believe, there's no-one applying to medical school with a "perfect" record. That said, there are certainly those with stronger applications than most, just as there are those with those with applications weaker than most. The first step to approaching this entire application circus with something resembling rationality is to come to terms with the fact that every applicant is not only on a continuum of applicants in terms of strengths, but that their place on the continuum will, much like beauty, be in the eye of the beholder.

Some AdComs will overlook academics to a degree if other parts of the application are compelling. Others will give far more weight to academics and MCAT than anything else. That's what makes the application process such a crap-shoot: you never know who'll be looking at your application.

My question is this: if you're average on paper, why do you believe you'd be greater than average in practice? If you've got evidence to back up that claim, then that is your opportunity to demonstrate to AdComs that you're more than the sum of your academics. You do this via your Personal Statement. If you're sufficiently compelling, you'll get a chance to drive the point home at an interview.

Consider it from the perspective of the AdComs: what motivation do they have to take an applicant who appears to be average, when they're looking for above-average people whom they can feel certain will thrive in medicine? If you're truly driven and have what it takes to do medicine, then you should have evidence of that in your life (volunteering, life experiences, decent (not perfect!) grades). If you don't, I'd say the question of "why not?" is a far more pressing one right now.
 
The only thing that I have to add is that I had many poster presentations & publications, which is becoming increasingly important for some medical schools.


This was one thing that really stood out & everyone asked me about.


It may be worth it for non-trads to try and gain some research experience if they can find the time!

i have 11 publications so i hope this helps. if i'm lucky i may help find a new treatment for alzheimers.
 
This is really a great thread.
Thank you guys for your great advice
 
I am a non-traditional applicant, married and with a 6-month-old baby, and with a foreign undergraduate education in an Asian country. I applied to medical schools for the entering year of 2009. I have been very lucky in this application cycle, with 7 acceptances already and still waiting to hear back from a few others (post-interview and post-secondary). Before and during my application, like many non-traditional applicants, I was stressful and a little scared, not sure what would happy. I got tremendous help and encouragement from many kind SDNers. I would never have done it so successfully without all your help. Today I am writing my story and my insight regarding the application process based on my own experience. Hopefully it will be helpful for some non-traditional applicants. :luck:

1) Undergraduate degree and prerequisite courses

I did my undergraduate in an Asian country, so English is my second language. I came to the U.S. for a Ph.D. degree in Physics. During my third year of my Ph.D. program, I realized that I wanted to pursue medicine. I went to a medical school counseling and they basically told me that it was almost impossible for me to get in medical school (at that time, I did not know about SDN). They said that I had to have an undergraduate degree in the U.S. to apply (which is NOT true) and I had to take all the prerequisite courses in the U.S. including math and physics even though I was in a Physics Ph.D. program (again, not completely true, see below).

For my undergraduate degree, I could not change the fact that it was done in a foreign country. I figured since I would be holding a U.S. advanced degree, it should be all right. It turned out I was right. But I did take the advice of using credential evaluation service WES to evaluate my undergraduate degree and transcript. I was planning to order one report from WES to every school, so whenever possible during the secondary application (such as in place of "do you have any other comments") I would write that I had done a WES evaluation and would order an official report to be sent from WES. However, ordering report from WES was too costly (~$20 per copy) and I decided to hold a while to see if I would get interview invitations without the report from WES. Fortunately, interview invitations started to roll in at mid-August. So I haven't ordered any copy from WES yet and I think I probably only need one copy for my final-decision school. Isn't that sweet? :p:p:p

For the prerequisite courses, I took them selectively. Since I have taken many physics on the graduate level I figured they should be able to substitute the general physics, so I did not retake the general physics as those counselors suggested. I did not retake math neither, because I figured I had taken many in my foreign college and my math skills should not be doubted because of my advanced degree in Physics. For general chemistry (w/ lab), organic chemistry (w/lab), biology (w/lab) and English, I decided to take them in the U.S. But as a graduate student working in the lab full time, I could only take one course per semester as allowed by my Ph.D. advisor. I laid out a time frame, and it did not seem that I had enough time to finish all four courses before 2008, the year of my application. I prioritized the courses in the order of: organic chemistry, biology, general chemistry, English. My graduate school is a very good private school, so I took organic chemistry and biology at my graduate school in two years, while took general chemistry and English in a state public school during two summers. In this way, I finished all the 4 courses in two years while doing my Ph.D. study at the same time.

I learned from some SDNers that an applicant with a foreign undergraduate degree need to have >= 90 class credits (or >=60 for some schools) in the U.S. to be considered in medical school application. I am not sure how strict that requirement is, but I did not have that many credits. Combing the undergraduate prerequisite classes and my graduate classes, I had only 68 credits, and this did not seem to be a problem for most schools (I applied to 20 schools in total, have received 13 interviews).

2) Mcat

I knew I had to have a good mcat score to succeed in the application, so I took this beast with a lot of respect :D. I took Kaplan online course, together with Exam Crackers books. There was a lot of excellent advice given on SDN regarding how to attack each session and I do not really have much to say. I just want to stress the importance of "smart" practice--taking notes of the mistakes you made and understanding every question you got right. Since English is my second language, Verbal session was my biggest challenge. I remember I started with a 4 or 5 in Kaplan practice, and got really concerned when it did seem to improve after I reached 8 or 9. I got Exam Crackers 101 and practiced a lot. Before the real exam, my verbal was around 9/10 (or 8 if I was not giving my full concentration). I told myself to stop freaking out and just try my best to score 9 or 10. Fortunately I got 10 in the real mcat. I think CONCENTRATION is the key to do well in mcat. During Verbal session, I was fully focused on just my screen and did not really notice when people around me getting up and going in and out the room. I got really hungry during my last Bio session (I was about 4-month pregnant :p) and got distracted. I barely finished the bio session and got 11, which is lower than my practice (~12-13). So CONCENTRATION is the key. In case you wonder, my mcat score is V10+P14+B11 =35 O.

For those who are struggling on verbal, do not give up. If I can do it, you can do it. Practice and Concentration!

3) Clinical experience


I started to volunteer at a hospital at the same time I started to take the prerequisite courses. Because of my tight schedule, I only did one ~4 hour shift every week on Sundays for about 1.5 years. I figured that since I was going to be weak in this area compared to other applicants who might have done clinical work for many years, I needed to make my volunteer experience really valuable. So I chose a volunteer work that had a lot of patient contact. It turned out this was very important because I got asked about my volunteer work during almost every interview and the interviewer was happy to learn that I had the experience of close patient contact so I knew what it was like to work with patients. Therefore I highly recommend doing volunteer work that involves a lot patient contact.

I stopped my volunteer work when I got really busy preparing for Mcat. I was not sure if my 1.5 years of volunteer work was enough in the category of clinical experience. After I got back my mcat score and decided for sure that I was going to apply in the summer of 2008, I asked for advice from a few SDNers. They all told me that my clinical experience was too scarce and I needed to do some more. They especially recommended shadowing with doctors. I knew that shadowing with doctors was standard clinical experience for almost every medical school applicant, so in the early March of 2008 (when I was ~6 month pregnant) I decided to do some shadowing. However, I could not really find a doctor to shadow. So I went back to my ex volunteer coordinator to see if she had anything for me. My coordinator kindly arranged me a volunteer work where I could have even more in-depth patient contact (I interviewed a lot of patients and selectively enroll them in some patient-care program). It turned out this rather short two-month volunteer experience (had to stop it because my baby was coming :) ) was very important because during the interview when being asked "what ELSE clinical experience do you have?" I had something nice to say. I would not have done this two-month volunteer work if not for the advice I got from those SDNers. Therefore, it is very important to get feedback about your application package before you apply, and be sure to leave some time to fix those weak points.

As for shadowing with doctors, I think it is a necessary for traditional applicants because the AdCom need to make sure that you know what you are getting yourself into. But for non-traditional applicants, especially those who have explored other career choices and in their late-20s or early 30s, I feel shadowing may not be a necessary. Do it if you have the opportunity, but do not loose hope if you just cannot find a doctor to shadow with. Just make sure you have two or more than two clinical experiences that involve some patient contact. During one of my interview, when being asked "what do you think is a weakness in your application?" I mentioned my lacking of shadowing experience. My interviewer told me that shadowing was not necessarily needed for my case. He said that giving my life experience and my age, he knew that I was mature enough to have a realistic view toward medicine.

4) Application
Again, the general wisdom, APPLY EARLY. I submitted my primary application on the very first day when it was open, and submitted all the secondary within 2 or 3 weeks after getting it. That was one reason why I got interview invitations in August. After I submitted my primary, I actually added Vanderbilt about 1 month later after learning that I only needed to submit secondary if got an interview. But let me tell you, I have not heard a word from Vanderbilt yet. I would think I was a good candidate for Vanderbilt giving my research background and apparently just applying a month late hurt my chance (maybe Vanderbilt did not want me even I applied on June 1st :p ).

Everybody knows the importance of PS. So be sure to find as many readers as possible. I got a lot of help from the volunteer readers on SDN. In total my PS was read by about 12 people and I got a lot of valuable advice. If you get similar critical advice from many readers, then that is something you want to change. Based on the advice I got, I made major changes 3 times regarding to the content of my PS and I think these changes really made a difference in my application. For my secondary essays, I got help from one kind SDNer with grammars and flows.

5) Interview
During an interview, you really have to stand out among all the promising candidates to get an acceptance. My interviews overall went pretty well and I have a few tips here.
1) Being confident
Do not be nervous. When you are selected for an interview, you must have certain qualities the school likes and you must be a promising candidate. So be confident. Walk into the interviewing room with a confident smile.

2) Think before you give an answer.
It is OK to take a few seconds to think about your answer when being asked a question that you do not have a ready answer. Actually this is much better than rushing out a quick answer without thinking, because that few seconds' thinking demonstrates your maturity.

3) Knowing your strength and weakness.
Be prepared to address your weakness. Do not bring it up voluntarily, but be prepared to talk about it when being asked. When talking about it, do not sound too defensive, but provide the reasons for your weakness and ways to improve it if you can.

Knowing your strength, this is the most important part, in my opinion, more important than knowing your weakness. You have to make sure that after the interview your interviewer knows your strength—the qualities in you that will make you a successful student and a good physician, and what you can bring to the school. Sometimes you have to use a little bit communication skills to get these points crossed. For example, when being asked about what I do for fun, I would tell them about my hobbies and how these hobbies helped me deal with stress (which lets the interviewer know that I could handle the stress in medical school); I would also indicate how these hobbies make me unique and interesting (which lets the interviewer know that I could add to the diversity of the class). Sometimes if your interviewer did not give you the chance to talk about your strength X, you could direct the conversation by saying something like " Oh, I have not got a chance to talked about X," 99% of possibility your interviewer would say "Yes, tell me about it." Then you could go on and talk about your strength X. Therefore you, as the interviewee, has some control over where the conversation goes.

I realize how long this post is. It is the longest one I ever posted online. :p Thank you for your patience to read it through, and I hope it is helpful to you in some way. :luck:
 
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My responce wont be as long as Q's.

I actually think that it helps to have no undergrad GPA than a poor one.

In any case, as someone who had to overcome a poor undergrad GPA, I think what made a difference with me was persistence.

I did alright on my MCAT. Nothing spectacular but not poor either.

I did go to grad school and did very well (4.0) and while this helped, MD schools DWELLED on my undergrad GPA. I even had one school tell me that they wouldn't accept me because of my undergrad GPA alone.

I contacted deans of admissions and was always updating them with things I was doing and asking for their advice. This really helped in getting interviews at some schools.

I had some really good LORs from people that the admissions committes knew and a lot of varried and long standing extra curricular activities although I'm not sure in the end how much weight either of these categories carried.

As it turns out the school that I got into was not one that I had contacted ahead of time and it was one I applied to late. I was very lucky in that it turns out the school is a great match for me.

They saw in my application the effort I had put forth in trying to get into med school and saw that I really was dedicated to becoming a doctor - I was told this at my interview.

In retrospect I would have majored in something that I knew I would have gotten good grades in when I was in undergrad. After that I would have done post bacc work to increase my GPA rather than go to grad school. This is because of the way AMCAS averages GPAs. And after that I would do what I did and keep working and improving your application.
Did you call the deans of admissions personally to update them after you applied? Is there a good way to start a relationship with them before you apply to Med School?
 
I am really excited to be able to post here, because it means that I am one of the "success stories." I am still getting used to the fact that I was accepted at a U.S. MD program, and I still wake up most mornings with this feeling of "I hope I get into med school" hanging around in my mind, before I remember that I already did. It's a crazy feeling and I hope some of my tips will be useful to someone.

I finished undergrad about 10 yrs ago with a GPA of 2.75. I've taken about 30 credits of post-bacc classes (all science, all A's except for 1 B), worked in the health care field since college, 32P on my MCAT. With the post-bacc classes, it brought my AMCAS GPA above 2.9, but still <3.0.

*Grades Obviously my main weakness was my GPA. I did NOT address my crappy ug grades in my PS, (I addressed it indirectly by commenting on my current academic success, and I addressed it directly in secondaries). But if it comes up, this is important: NO EXCUSES…just explain what happened, and why it won’t happen now. I went into the process with the mindset of “obviously that was when I was young and naïve, of course I’m older and wiser now” and I think by projecting that confident mindset (in essays and in interview) it helped the admissions folks to accept that it was true. I sold it by believing it myself. And I only believed it because I've done so well recently. I had wanted to try to apply before taking (or retaking) many of the classes but one of my good advisors pointed out that I need to do well in classes not just to prove to admissions committees that I can do it, but prove it to myself as well.

*Letters use interfolio, use interfolio, use interfolio. Also, get extra letters. One of my primary letter-writers had to back out (mid-August) due to family emergency, and my backup wasn't available either. I never thought that would happen! It was hard enough for me to get all the appropriate letter-writers for the different schools, and to think of ANOTHER one was very stressful, so get extra extras if possible.

*Interview attire I wore a non-black suit to my interview and I felt awesome. I even heard someone in my group say that they wore black because they didn't want to stand out from the other applicants. HUH?? :confused: Personally, my difference empowered me and made me feel confident. Relax, the interview is where nontrads can shine.

*Advisors In agreement with previous posters, typical premed advisors do not know what to do with us nontrads. Avoid people (advisors, family members, other) who try to discourage you. There's a difference between constructive criticism of your portfolio (ex: if you don't get accepted, these are things you could do to strengthen your app) and people who just constantly ask you if you're interested in something else, or ask what you'll do when you don't get accepted at every single visit to their office. I like pragmatic optimism. I am very lucky to also have an incredibly supportive spouse.

*Personal Statement Get multiple letter-readers. I started mine out with a story and someone suggested to start off with my 10 years of health care experience instead. DUH. :p But only one of the 5 or 6 readers suggested this, and it was great advice. The more the better.

*Apply Early Many people fear they were rejected because they didn't apply early enough. Don't let this be a possible reason for your rejection--it's one of the few things within your control.

*Professional experience My main strength was a good deal of interesting work and volunteer experience in public health, including a significant amount of time in a developing country with a certain federal volunteer program. But I agree with previous nontrads that any career experience can show that you have leadership skills, professionalism, initiative, cultural competence, and a lot of other skills crucial to being a physician. I think I actually focused on these attributes more than specific healthcare skills in my PS.

*SDN Beware of extreme statements on SDN: you’ll ONLY get in if your GPA is X.XX, your MCAT is XX, etc. Many of these GPAs, MCAT scores, etc are good guidelines on how to definitely get in, but if you don’t fit the mold in some area, it doesn’t mean that you CAN'T get in.

*Admissions Contact admissions BEFORE your application year for questions about process. The director of admissions for one school sat down with me and explained their whole process, I was shocked at how transparent she made it...I thought it was all a big secret! Apparently, it's not, as long as you ask.

Good luck everyone!!!!
 
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Seeing as how my application cycle is probably over I figured it was about time I posted in this thread.

Here's the overview:
15 schools
5 post-secondary rejections
3 withdrawals (2 pre-interview, 1 post-interview invite)
7 interviews
2 waitlists
1 post-waitlist acceptance
6 acceptances


I know this thread is titled "Non-trad secrets of success", but I'm a little uncomfortable with that title because I don't think there was anything secret about how I got into medical school. Plus, I don't think mine is necessarily the best way to get into medical school or the best approach for everyone. There's still a lot of arguments about various aspects of the application process and I won't pretend to be an arbiter of what really works best. I have my opinions, but that's all they really are. I'll leave it up to others to decide for themselves what I did right and what I did wrong.

So here goes...

GPA Repair:

1)The indiscretions of youth: Like so many other non-trads, my GPA was the weak part of my application. I attended college for 6 years, leaving a few credits shy of graduating with ~3.1 cGPA/scGPA. My GPA wasn't catastrophically low, but my transcript had the added downside of having a lot of W's as well. While it is true that I spent most of this part of my undergraduate career working while taking classes and taking time off to save money, I honestly chalk up my poor performance to my lack of maturity and wherewithal to handle everything that I had on my plate. Others have had way more adversity than I ever had and have exceled. Plus, I've learned at this stage that life doesn't stop throwing you curveballs just because you have career goals. It's still up to you to take responsibility for your goals, happiness, and success despite the unexpected events and mistakes that roll your way.

2) How I turned it around: Around the age of 31 I had a medical emergency which forced me to take stock of my life. It also forced me to withdraw from some classes at a local college I was taking (for which AMCAS gave me F's). About two years later in 2006 I decided that medicine was what I wanted to do with my life and started taking classes to repair my GPA. Here's the approach I took:

a) I knew with my choppy and mediocre prior academic performance that adcoms would always wonder whether I could really hack a rigorous medical school curriculum or just crash & burn. I decided that the only way to allay those fears would be for there to be a clear demarcation line in my transcript showing when I turned myself around. I committed myself to getting ALL A's in every one of my classes NO MATTER WHAT. I wanted the adcoms to see a long string of A's at the end of my transcript that would leave little doubt in their minds that my days of inconsistent academics were behind me.

b) My major was in biology so I had taken all the med school prereqs already. The traditional post-bacc wasn't really for me, and at this stage I'd never even heard of an SMP. I decided to just take as many upper-level science classes as I could before applying. I got a job at a university which had tuition benefits for employees. This allowed me to take two classes free every quarter. Over two years I took 13 classes (10 science, 2 literature, 1 psychology) without paying a cent. I got an A in every single class and my final GPA was 3.35cGPA/3.50scGPA. I also transferred the 2 literature credits to my college and got my diploma in Dec 2007 (16 years after I started!).

MCAT: This is the area where my approach will probably be the least helpful. While I didn't do great on the MCAT for SDN standards, my score was a major plus for most of the schools that I applied to. I had a balanced 34R (11PS, 11VR, 12BS). I'm one of those people who tend to do well on standardized tests and I didn't really spend a lot of time preparing for the MCAT. I took two weeks of vacation from work. I spent one entire week on content review. I basically sat in my boxers and a t-shirt at home all day and night studying and napping. Then I took a timed practice MCAT each day for the next week and reviewed content that gave me trouble on the tests. I think the fact that I used to be a high school science teacher helped a lot. Having to make up and grade tests tends to give you a lot insight into the psychology of standardized tests.

ECs: This was another area of strength in my application. Not so much for the top tier schools, but definitely for the other schools that I applied to. I think that many schools really liked that I had variety in my background.

1) Research - I did alot of research (4 years part-time, two labs) during my first undergrad stint so I was qualified for a lot of lab positions when I left college. I did full-time research at two different labs (almost 6 years experience) and got several co-authorships as a result. Being able to speak intelligently about research and experimental design helped a lot in interviews. Plus, my research background spanned a lot of topics (molecular, biochemistry, neurology, immunology, rheumatology).

2) Education - I spent 4 years volunteer tutoring in public schools and 1 year as a high school biology/algebra teacher. Oddly enough, this experience was what I was asked about most often in interviews. My year teaching at an urban public high school was something that many interviewers seemed fascinated by. Plus, it helped me grow as a person and an interviewer. Spending 5 days a week for a year constantly talking and teaching really obliterated any nervousness I ever had about speaking in public or understanding how to present my ideas in a clear and concise manner.

3) Patient care - When I decided I wanted to apply to medical school, I wanted some patient contact that went beyond the hospital volunteering I had done in the past. I got a job at a university hospital as a nurse's aide on a high acuity inpatient unit. Getting a job like this proved much more difficult than I thought. I sent out resumes and online applications without much success. It wasn't until I got a job as a unit clerk (from a temp agency) and got to know some nurse managers that I got the patient care gig. It's been an amazing experience to spend so much quality time with patients and work with so many great nurses and doctors.

4) Volunteering - Even before I decided on medical school, I always tried to find ways to volunteer. I think it meant a lot to adcoms that I had a long track record of service rather than a burst of volunteering right before applying. Since 1999 I don't think I ever went more than a year without volunteering somewhere. I volunteered at public schools and hospitals, and even volunteered as a researcher for a psychology department.

5) Hobbies - Again, I think the variety of my interests was a big selling point to a lot of interviewers. I could speak competently about a lot of topics from literature, politics, music, traveling, and even ballroom dancing. I think the fact that I made time during my twenties to try different pursuits (like poetry, dancing, working at a live music venue, playing cello and guitar) enhanced my application and reassured adcoms that I was a well-rounded individual.

LORs: This was also a strong point of my application. I had great relationships with several former bosses as well as my present one. So I ended up with letters from three PIs, a hospital volunteer supervisor, a nurse manager, and a science professor. While it may seem Machiavellian to cultivate LORs at ever turn, it is something you should get used to. Every class, every job, every volunteer gig, you should be trying to conduct yourself in a manner and build relationships that will leave you with great references. My letters were all handled through my Pre-med Committee at my undergrad. While getting a committee letter was time-consuming (a full day of interviews and I had to write about 10 essays), it gave me the opportunity to send 6 letters to schools regardless of their letter requirements. My pre-med committee was great and very helpful. The only downside to the committee letter is that they didn't release the composite letter until August 1st. So my applications weren't complete until mid/late August.

Essays: Ugh. This is an area that I don't think I did as well as I could have. I really do cringe when I read over my PS and secondaries. And I'm convinced that a couple of my secondary essays ruined my chances at several schools (I only got two interviews at schools that required secondary essays). I wish I could say I had a lot of people read my essays, but I didn't. I had one friend give me feedback and that was it. All I can say is that in my opinion it's best to say fewer things (meaningfully and from the heart), than try to cram everything in. Some of my better essays were written off the cuff and where I didn't try to say too much. While I didn't particularly like my PS, I did get several compliments from interviewers about it. I tried to center the essay around a single experience with a patient I had as a nurse's aide and interweave it around my overall path to medicine. I just tried to present my journey in way that adcoms would see my application as a natural evolution of my experiences. I wanted my whole story to arrive organically (and not via some cheap epiphany) at a medical career. I wanted them to read it and think "Oh yeah! It totally makes sense that he's at this point and applying to medical school." One of my interviewer's said that she loved my PS because it dealt with the fact that I loved the complexities of patient-caregiver interactions even difficult ones and wasn't a standard "I want to heal people" essay. She also appreciated that I addressed the importance of caregivers when science reaches it's limits. My PS wasn't overly clever or literary. It was plain unassuming prose and I tried to be sincere. Oh Yeah, here's a big pointer - MOST SCHOOLS DON'T CHANGE THEIR SECONDARY PROMPTS YEAR TO YEAR. I wish I knew that before so I could have worked on them earlier.

Application Timing:
1) APPLY EARLY: There's a lot of debate about whether being complete in September/October vs. July/August really hurts your chances that much. But here's the best reason for applying early: the chance at an early acceptance in October. I can't tell how much less stressful this process was for me after having gotten an acceptance letter in October. That's reason enough to want to get this stuff done early. I can't imagine how painful it would be to be sweating bullets on into the new year and trying to figure out if you should be preparing for a reapp. Also try to send in your primaries on day one. AMCAS verification times seemed to increase a ton for those who submitted a week or two later vs. those who submitted on day one. The sooner you're verified, the sooner you can concentrate on secondary essays, and the sooner your app will be complete.

Interviews: Honestly, I only had one uncomfortable interview and the rest were completely relaxed. I think most interviewers aren't out to get you, but are really just trying to get to know you. I had 7 interview (6 acceptances) so I feel like I was pretty good at interviewing. Being older and having a good sense of myself helps alot. I've dealt with enough in my life that I don't really get flustered anymore (even in codes). I was actually surprised how little interviewers cared about my shoddy record in undergrad. I wasn't asked about it once. Most questions were about things I did after leaving my undergrad. But the weirdest thing that I think helped me (it also helped tons with the VR section on the MCAT) was the fact that I listen to NPR, read alot of periodicals (Economist, New Yorker, Harper's, almost every major newspaper, etc.), and watch alot of documentaries. It gave me the broad knowledge (and vocabulary) to speak intelligently about almost anything an interviewer threw my way. I also made sure to go over my file before every interview to refresh my memory about my journey and ECs. I made a lot of use of SDN's interview feedback forum. I wore the same suit to every interview ($120 at SK menswear). I sent thank you emails to my interviewers at first, but sadly got tired of writing them. I know I should have as a courtesy (I don't think it affects admission decisions AT ALL.). I was just lazy. I stressed about asking questions at my first couple of interviews, but quickly realized that I didn't have that much to ask and stopped agonizing over it. (I limited my questions to interviewers to tips about the city or balancing family life with a medical career.) I did like asking med students about the thing they least liked about their school - that question often gave revealing answers.

Apply broadly: I took my pre-med advisors advice and divided the schools I applied to into three categories: Longshot, Hopeful, Competitive (there's no such thing as a safety). I applied to 3 longshots, 5 hopefuls, 7 competitives. I probably should have bought the MSAR, but instead used US N&WR. One thing I should have paid more attention to rather than just avg GPA/MCAT when I chose my schools was total # of applicants. While your scores might be competitive at a school it does matter if you're competing with 4k applicants or 10k applicants. This frequently becomes a problem with private schools with no instate preference. Also make sure you know what percentage each school reserves for IS applicants. Don't immediately discount a school because it's a public school. Some schools accept almost no OOS, but many do accept significant #'s OOS.

State of Residency: It definitely didn't escape my notice that of the 6 schools I got accepted to 5 of them are public schools that favor IS applicants. I know that if I was from say CA, I would be holding only one acceptance. For those of you who have middling stats like mine, consider where you live. How many IS friendly schools you have and how populous your state is will greatly impact your chances of getting into medical school. If you live in CA, you're in for a world of hurt. Same to you NY. For my tastes, OH can't be beat for the carpetbagger. 6 public medical schools (2 are ranked) and lax residency rules.

I know that this was extraordinarily long, but hopefully it was helpful to some.
 
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thank you all for your amazing posts.
they have been of great help and have shed some light on the whole process!
 
Thank you all for really useful information!

Question, in the earlier threads, many of you reference Pre-med Advisors.

Who are they?/How do you come across them being a non-trad out of UG for a while?

Are you just going back to the Pre-med Advisors at your UG school? If it is not in the same state, where are you going? They sound like they can be quite useful, but proximity would be ideal.

Or, are you going to your post-bac school pre-med advisor?

I would love suggestions on finding one in NYC.
 
Seeing as how my application cycle is probably over I figured it was about time I posted in this thread.

Here's the overview:
15 schools
5 post-secondary rejections
3 withdrawals (2 pre-interview, 1 post-interview invite)
7 interviews
2 waitlists
1 post-waitlist acceptance
6 acceptances


I know this thread is titled "Non-trad secrets of success", but I'm a little uncomfortable with that title because I don't think there was anything secret about how I got into medical school. Plus, I don't think mine is necessarily the best way to get into medical school or the best approach for everyone. There's still a lot of arguments about various aspects of the application process and I won't pretend to be an arbiter of what really works best. I have my opinions, but that's all they really are. I'll leave it up to others to decide for themselves what I did right and what I did wrong.

So here goes...

GPA Repair:

1)The indiscretions of youth: Like so many other non-trads, my GPA was the weak part of my application. I attended college for 6 years, leaving a few credits shy of graduating with ~3.1 cGPA/scGPA. My GPA wasn't catastrophically low, but my transcript had the added downside of having a lot of W's as well. While it is true that I spent most of this part of my undergraduate career working while taking classes and taking time off to save money, I honestly chalk up my poor performance to my lack of maturity and wherewithal to handle everything that I had on my plate. Others have had way more adversity than I ever had and have exceled. Plus, I've learned at this stage that life doesn't stop throwing you curveballs just because you have career goals. It's still up to you to take responsibility for your goals, happiness, and success despite the unexpected events and mistakes that roll your way.

2) How I turned it around: Around the age of 31 I had a medical emergency which forced me to take stock of my life. It also forced me to withdraw from some classes at a local college I was taking (for which AMCAS gave me F's). About two years later in 2006 I decided that medicine was what I wanted to do with my life and started taking classes to repair my GPA. Here's the approach I took:

a) I knew with my choppy and mediocre prior academic performance that adcoms would always wonder whether I could really hack a rigorous medical school curriculum or just crash & burn. I decided that the only way to allay those fears would be for there to be a clear demarcation line in my transcript showing when I turned myself around. I committed myself to getting ALL A's in every one of my classes NO MATTER WHAT. I wanted the adcoms to see a long string of A's at the end of my transcript that would leave little doubt in their minds that my days of inconsistent academics were behind me.

b) My major was in biology so I had taken all the med school prereqs already. The traditional post-bacc wasn't really for me, and at this stage I'd never even heard of an SMP. I decided to just take as many upper-level science classes as I could before applying. I got a job at a university which had tuition benefits for employees. This allowed me to take two classes free every quarter. Over two years I took 13 classes (10 science, 2 literature, 1 psychology) without paying a cent. I got an A in every single class and my final GPA was 3.35cGPA/3.50scGPA. I also transferred the 2 literature credits to my college and got my diploma in Dec 2007 (16 years after I started!).

MCAT: This is the area where my approach will probably be the least helpful. While I didn't do great on the MCAT for SDN standards, my score was a major plus for most of the schools that I applied to. I had a balanced 34R (11PS, 11VR, 12BS). I'm one of those people who tend to do well on standardized tests and I didn't really spend a lot of time preparing for the MCAT. I took two weeks of vacation from work. I spent one entire week on content review. I basically sat in my boxers and a t-shirt at home all day and night studying and napping. Then I took a timed practice MCAT each day for the next week and reviewed content that gave me trouble on the tests. I think the fact that I used to be a high school science teacher helped a lot. Having to make up and grade tests tends to give you a lot insight into the psychology of standardized tests.

ECs: This was another area of strength in my application. Not so much for the top tier schools, but definitely for the other schools that I applied to. I think that many schools really liked that I had variety in my background.

1) Research - I did alot of research (4 years part-time, two labs) during my first undergrad stint so I was qualified for a lot of lab positions when I left college. I did full-time research at two different labs (almost 6 years experience) and got several co-authorships as a result. Being able to speak intelligently about research and experimental design helped a lot in interviews. Plus, my research background spanned a lot of topics (molecular, biochemistry, neurology, immunology, rheumatology).

2) Education - I spent 4 years volunteer tutoring in public schools and 1 year as a high school biology/algebra teacher. Oddly enough, this experience was what I was asked about most often in interviews. My year teaching at an urban public high school was something that many interviewers seemed fascinated by. Plus, it helped me grow as a person and an interviewer. Spending 5 days a week for a year constantly talking and teaching really obliterated any nervousness I ever had about speaking in public or understanding how to present my ideas in a clear and concise manner.

3) Patient care - When I decided I wanted to apply to medical school, I wanted some patient contact that went beyond the hospital volunteering I had done in the past. I got a job at a university hospital as a nurse's aide on a high acuity inpatient unit. Getting a job like this proved much more difficult than I thought. I sent out resumes and online applications without much success. It wasn't until I got a job as a unit clerk (from a temp agency) and got to know some nurse managers that I got the patient care gig. It's been an amazing experience to spend so much quality time with patients and work with so many great nurses and doctors.

4) Volunteering - Even before I decided on medical school, I always tried to find ways to volunteer. I think it meant a lot to adcoms that I had a long track record of service rather than a burst of volunteering right before applying. Since 1999 I don't think I ever went more than a year without volunteering somewhere. I volunteered at public schools and hospitals, and even volunteered as a researcher for a psychology department.

5) Hobbies - Again, I think the variety of my interests was a big selling point to a lot of interviewers. I could speak competently about a lot of topics from literature, politics, music, traveling, and even ballroom dancing. I think the fact that I made time during my twenties to try different pursuits (like poetry, dancing, working at a live music venue, playing cello and guitar) enhanced my application and reassured adcoms that I was a well-rounded individual.

LORs: This was also a strong point of my application. I had great relationships with several former bosses as well as my present one. So I ended up with letters from three PIs, a hospital volunteer supervisor, a nurse manager, and a science professor. While it may seem Machiavellian to cultivate LORs at ever turn, it is something you should get used to. Every class, every job, every volunteer gig, you should be trying to conduct yourself in a manner and build relationships that will leave you with great references. My letters were all handled through my Pre-med Committee at my undergrad. While getting a committee letter was time-consuming (a full day of interviews and I had to write about 10 essays), it gave me the opportunity to send 6 letters to schools regardless of their letter requirements. My pre-med committee was great and very helpful. The only downside to the committee letter is that they didn't release the composite letter until August 1st. So my applications weren't complete until mid/late August.

Essays: Ugh. This is an area that I don't think I did as well as I could have. I really do cringe when I read over my PS and secondaries. And I'm convinced that a couple of my secondary essays ruined my chances at several schools (I only got two interviews at schools that required secondary essays). I wish I could say I had a lot of people read my essays, but I didn't. I had one friend give me feedback and that was it. All I can say is that in my opinion it's best to say fewer things (meaningfully and from the heart), than try to cram everything in. Some of my better essays were written off the cuff and where I didn't try to say too much. While I didn't particularly like my PS, I did get several compliments from interviewers about it. I tried to center the essay around a single experience with a patient I had as a nurse's aide and interweave it around my overall path to medicine. I just tried to present my journey in way that adcoms would see my application as a natural evolution of my experiences. I wanted my whole story to arrive organically (and not via some cheap epiphany) at a medical career. I wanted them to read it and think "Oh yeah! It totally makes sense that he's at this point and applying to medical school." One of my interviewer's said that she loved my PS because it dealt with the fact that I loved the complexities of patient-caregiver interactions even difficult ones and wasn't a standard "I want to heal people" essay. She also appreciated that I addressed the importance of caregivers when science reaches it's limits. My PS wasn't overly clever or literary. It was plain unassuming prose and I tried to be sincere. Oh Yeah, here's a big pointer - MOST SCHOOLS DON'T CHANGE THEIR SECONDARY PROMPTS YEAR TO YEAR. I wish I knew that before so I could have worked on them earlier.

Application Timing:
1) APPLY EARLY: There's a lot of debate about whether being complete in September/October vs. July/August really hurts your chances that much. But here's the best reason for applying early: the chance at an early acceptance in October. I can't tell how much less stressful this process was for me after having gotten an acceptance letter in October. That's reason enough to want to get this stuff done early. I can't imagine how painful it would be to be sweating bullets on into the new year and trying to figure out if you should be preparing for a reapp. Also try to send in your primaries on day one. AMCAS verification times seemed to increase a ton for those who submitted a week or two later vs. those who submitted on day one. The sooner you're verified, the sooner you can concentrate on secondary essays, and the sooner your app will be complete.

Interviews: Honestly, I only had one uncomfortable interview and the rest were completely relaxed. I think most interviewers aren't out to get you, but are really just trying to get to know you. I had 7 interview (6 acceptances) so I feel like I was pretty good at interviewing. Being older and having a good sense of myself helps alot. I've dealt with enough in my life that I don't really get flustered anymore (even in codes). I was actually surprised how little interviewers cared about my shoddy record in undergrad. I wasn't asked about it once. Most questions were about things I did after leaving my undergrad. But the weirdest thing that I think helped me (it also helped tons with the VR section on the MCAT) was the fact that I listen to NPR, read alot of periodicals (Economist, New Yorker, Harper's, almost every major newspaper, etc.), and watch alot of documentaries. It gave me the broad knowledge (and vocabulary) to speak intelligently about almost anything an interviewer threw my way. I also made sure to go over my file before every interview to refresh my memory about my journey and ECs. I made a lot of use of SDN's interview feedback forum. I wore the same suit to every interview ($120 at SK menswear). I sent thank you emails to my interviewers at first, but sadly got tired of writing them. I know I should have as a courtesy (I don't think it affects admission decisions AT ALL.). I was just lazy. I stressed about asking questions at my first couple of interviews, but quickly realized that I didn't have that much to ask and stopped agonizing over it. (I limited my questions to interviewers to tips about the city or balancing family life with a medical career.) I did like asking med students about the thing they least liked about their school - that question often gave revealing answers.

Apply broadly: I took my pre-med advisors advice and divided the schools I applied to into three categories: Longshot, Hopeful, Competitive (there's no such thing as a safety). I applied to 3 longshots, 5 hopefuls, 7 competitives. I probably should have bought the MSAR, but instead used US N&WR. One thing I should have paid more attention to rather than just avg GPA/MCAT when I chose my schools was total # of applicants. While your scores might be competitive at a school it does matter if you're competing with 4k applicants or 10k applicants. This frequently becomes a problem with private schools with no instate preference. Also make sure you know what percentage each school reserves for IS applicants. Don't immediately discount a school because it's a public school. Some schools accept almost no OOS, but many do accept significant #'s OOS.

State of Residency: It definitely didn't escape my notice that of the 6 schools I got accepted to 5 of them are public schools that favor IS applicants. I know that if I was from say CA, I would be holding only one acceptance. For those of you who have middling stats like mine, consider where you live. How many IS friendly schools you have and how populous your state is will greatly impact your chances of getting into medical school. If you live in CA, you're in for a world of hurt. Same to you NY. For my tastes, OH can't be beat for the carpetbagger. 6 public medical schools (2 are ranked) and lax residency rules.

I know that this was extraordinarily long, but hopefully it was helpful to some.

I really enjoyed your post. Thanks for taking the time.

Also thanks to Q for taking the time, I read your posts and am educated everytime.

I appreciate your help guys.
 
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I mention this because for every two nontrad students like you (very serious in their 20s) there has got to be at least one like me... or at least I hope...

.
I'm in a similar situation. I'm going to be 28 in the fall and I've jumped around from job to job since college. During college, I was very involved in activities like student government, film club, toastmasters, etc but I didn't try hard enough in school.

After graduating I was a manager of a gym, then an admissions advisor at a private college, working in film production and acting for two years and then a year in publishing.

I've taken three classes in the past few months and I love going back to school for science and really WANTING to learn this time. I'm having so much trouble writing my essay for the post-bac program because I don't know how to make my very unsteady history look like an asset.
 
I disagree. I think my 3.5 years as an ICU nurse (very different than shadowing/volunteering--I actually made decisions, had a professional license to maintain, worked full-time in a hospital...) was a little more impressive to them than the standard clinical experience. Would I suggest becoming a nurse just to get into med school? Of course not, but depth of experience can carry a little weight.

Thanks asunshine, and forbidden, too. Forbidden, I really liked nearly everything you said, but I disagree with your statement about clinical experience. Volunteering in a clinical setting a few hours a week is valuable, but not the same as working in medicine full-time. I believe that nurses applying to medical school have a distinct advantage. They really KNOW what medicine is all about, and they're experienced in dealing with the long-term physiological and emotional aspects of patient care. Those of you who are med students or residents (or even attendings) can almost certainly attest to how much you relied on nurses to teach you some of the most important lessons you've ever learned.

Traditional students who are passionate about medicine have tremendous drive and ability, but most of them haven't assisted in codes, or talked to family members, or invested themselves completely into someone's survival in a long hospital stay. It's not the same...and even if it is on paper, I don't think it comes across the same way in an interview.
 
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Come to think of it, it's high time we got some input from the incoming c/o 2010. Congrats to all of you nontrad incoming M1s, and please share your wisdom and success stories for future nontrad applicants.
 
well, since you asked...:) I think an important thing to emphasize during the interview process is how you will fit in with a class of mostly 20-somethings (as that is what your med school class will be like). it really wasn't an issue for me, since I had gone back to school and taken the prereqs with mostly undergraduate students and it was fine. I actually made some really dear friends who are 20/21/22 et seq. also, people generally think I'm in my 20s but that's beside the point (wear your sunblock, kids). I see some posts on this board by nontrads who feel it necessary repeatedly to point out how they are going to be so much better than everyone else at med school/patient care because they are nontrads, have life experience, etc. well, maybe, maybe not. certainly our experiences are valuable and hopefully will play a part in making us good doctors, but some people's posts emanate this attitude of superiority over our traditional applicant colleagues. I find it off-putting to read and if I was an adcom I'd probably find it off-putting in an interview and as a classmate I'd find it off-putting, no matter my age. my point being, emphasize your strengths and experience in a positive light, not by pointing out how they make you so much better of a candidate than someone just out of college. it takes all kinds
 
Very nice thread. Very helpful. It underscores what I would think is the true purpose of SDN. :thumbup:

Thanks Q and contributors!
 
Does this post belong to be right under the Non-Traditional FAQs in the reserved section?
 
Does this post belong to be right under the Non-Traditional FAQs in the reserved section?
It's already there, the very first link in the FAQs sticky. There are links to lots of other helpful threads in that sticky as well. I highly recommend checking it out. :)
 
Great thread! Where can I find your study habits post? Searched but couldn't find it. Any PM would be immensely helpful. Thanks in advance!
 
Great thread! Where can I find your study habits post? Searched but couldn't find it. Any PM would be immensely helpful. Thanks in advance!
If you're talking to me, go to the MCAT Q & A subforum and look at the sticky in there. A group of us wrote several posts for studying each subject on the MCAT, all of which are linked in that forum.

Just FYI, I took the MCAT when it was still pen and paper. If you want specific test-taking advice, you are probably better off reading the 30+ MCAT CBT Study Habits thread, which can be found in the main MCAT forum. Best of luck. :)
 
This thread was a great confidence booster for me. I'm a 19 year old freshman in NJ, and right now, I sit at a dreadful GPA. I think by reading this, I have enough of an idea of what to do that I just might be able to make it to med. school after all. I had a bad first semester, and this semester was decent, but still not stellar. If I can get myself up to it, I might just get 4.0s for the rest of my time here. I already have three years of clinical experience as an EMT, and I plan on volunteering in many other settings. I was seriously debating giving up on med. school, but I think it might just be worth a shot to keep going.
 
I'm 30 and will be starting med school this fall at a state university.

I took my first science class at 27. Had a BA in history and an MPH. Going back to school with a bunch of 18 year olds kind of sucked, but I went through it and got good grades (except for Physics 1, which felt like a slow decent into hell - but the good thing about classes is they end). The MCAT was the worst part. On everything else I saw results when I put in the effort. I even saw significant results for the MCAT on my practice tests, but then on the real one I scored 6 points lower than my average (don't listen to those people who say O Chem isn't a big part of the bio section - there was A LOT of it on my real one and only a couple of questions on the stuff I had spent months memorizing). I really thought I was completely out of the running when I got my score. But, I applied anyway.

I don't recommend applying with a weak MCAT. But I also don't recommend letting it hold up your life for more than a year if you have really put in effort to fix it. I waited a year to apply because the first time I took it I didn't do well (money saving tip: don't take it unless you are READY. There will be no divine intervention on test day). The second time I was ready (11 months later), and did only a few points better. But I'd had it with that test. I was done. There comes a time when no one is going to know what the best thing for you to do is, and you have to make your own decision. I applied to 2 schools that focused on primary care, made sure to talk about my interest in rural health on my application, and got 2 interviews. I got into the cheaper school and canceled my other interview. During my interview, I was asked about my MCAT score. My verbal was good, but my bio was horrible (7). I told the interviewer that I was taking biochem to improve my biology background, and I said that honestly I just didn't want to put my life on hold any longer. He smiled and said that the verbal was the most important score anyways and correlates best with the USMLE step 1. And that was the end of that line of questioning.

There have been some serious trials. Financially, it was hard as hell. Looking back, I can't believe we pulled it off with our ragtag budget. Also, I really almost went nuts from kinematics and the MCAT took a piece of my happiness. But there have been some windfalls this year. My husband applied as well - and we're going to the same university, which is what we wanted all along but were skeptical would happen. And we both got partial scholarships on top of cheap tuition.

One thing I would highly recommend to nontrads who are looking at paying for their premeds themselves is getting out of a city where you have friends and moving to an isolated small community where rent is cheap and there's not much to do - you will be less aware of what you are missing and more excited to spend time in the library. Let's face it: friends can be distracting and expensive (of course, I had a partner through it all, so I can say such cold things).

Another important thing I think about a lot: I treasure the scientific background I got from all this. I feel so lucky. I mean, I can actually read things like Scientific American now! I think that excitement about learning kept me interested in my classes and at times felt more important than working towards a goal.

Good luck to you all.
 
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Figured I'd share now that I have an acceptance. Maybe it will give some hope to someone. Long post, sorry :laugh:

I'm a web and software developer turned pre-med. I came back to school in summer '09 to take all the pre-reqs and MCAT. I'm proud to say I did it all in a year. Took 11 hours in summer '09 and took 19 hours in both Fall and Spring semesters. All while shadowing, volunteering, and doing research. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.81 sci and 4.0 non-sci. Took the MCAT in May and got a 26M. I know I could have done better but I was too busy doing everything else to effectively study. Turns out to be ok :)

My overall undergrad GPA is a completely different story... I partied way too much in college the first time around. My AMCAS GPA is lowwwwww. So I believed my only viable option was DO schools. After some retakes along with the pre-reqs, I got my AACOMAS GPA up to a 3.16 cGPA and 3.78 sGPA.

I applied and turned secondaries in to 2 MD schools and 8 DO schools. So far I've gotten 1 MD interview invite and 5 DO interview invites. I was waitlisted at my first two schools I interviewed at, making me very nervous. But yesterday I got a letter of acceptance from GA-PCOM!! But I will still interview at the MD school this Tuesday and I'll probably cancel one of my upcoming DO interviews and still go to the other.

So I guess here's what I have to say about my experience and advice I have to give:

1. Yes, it may be a major fluke and have to do with the state I'm from (Georgia), but even if your GPA and MCAT are considered hopeless for MD schools by SDN, you still may have a shot at an MD school because of your non-trad experience, so apply!! I still fully expect to get waitlisted or rejected at the MD school, because it's so unbelievable :laugh: But I fit their mission perfectly, which is very important, so we'll see! The point is, try, and apply logically. I know I'd never get into Emory with my GPA/MCAT, so I didn't apply. But I know the missions of MCG and Mercer, so I applied there. I knew I'm low for MCG too, but their secondary was free - so look into things like that.

2. If you're someone with a low GPA that is hard/impossible to bring up on AMCAS (I had A LOT of hours...it would take me years to get barely over a 3.0 in both AO and Science), be open to DO schools. Their grade forgiveness really helps, and there are some really great DO schools out there. If you really want to be a doctor, then the initials shouldn't matter, so don't be stubborn.

3. Apply early! My AMCAS and AACOMAS were submitted Day 1. Secondaries submitted within a day or two of receipt. Early Primary = Early Secondary = Early Interview = MUCH better chance of acceptance. Don't procrastinate. Get it in.

4. Be prepared for questions in the interview about why you switched careers. And what happened that you had bad grades in undergrad (if applicable). And DON'T give excuses when they ask. Just own up to it. My first interview I said "oh I partied too much and wasn't focused and had a job..." Yeah...that didn't go over so well. I learned on the second interview to just say "I was young and immature, and it isn't a reflection of who I am now or what my standards are today." Leave it at that. Don't give them any reason to keep thinking or talking about it. They'll like you more for not giving excuses.

5. Do study harder for the MCAT than I did. My second interview went extremely well and I was completely in love with the school. When I called to ask why I was waitlisted, they told me it was because of my MCAT. So try a little harder...shoot for a high score. Your MCAT and GPA do matter even after the interview to the adcom. Which brings me to my next point...

6. I did all this in one year. I wouldn't recommend it. Everyone's different and thankfully I was able to handle it. But you may not be able to, or you may do better than I did. You know you. But if I had to go back, I'd spread it out over two years. This semester I'm taking Biochem, Genetics, Anatomy & Physiology 2, Cell Biology (and a couple others). But these classes really would have helped me on the MCAT. They aren't necessary, but I feel like I could bust out a 30+ now having had these. Again, it's up to you. Don't rush it. One more year is just a drop in the bucket.

7. Get your finances straight before you come back to school. I saved up a good chunk from when I was working full-time to help me while back in school. It didn't last as long as I'd liked. Primary/Secondaries and flying to interviews is very expensive. So save up how much you think you'll need, then double it.

That's all I can think of right now. Good luck to all you non-trad pre-meds out there. Be patient, it will happen. I'll update on the MD school and my other DO interviews. But right now, I'm completely excited that I've been accepted somewhere and I'll get to be a doctor!

Edit: WOW, Wall of text...sorry guys. Hope you find this useful and not annoying LOL
 
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Figured I'd share now that I have an acceptance. Maybe it will give some hope to someone. Long post, sorry :laugh:

I'm a web and software developer turned pre-med. I came back to school in summer '09 to take all the pre-reqs and MCAT. I'm proud to say I did it all in a year. Took 11 hours in summer '09 and took 19 hours in both Fall and Spring semesters. All while shadowing, volunteering, and doing research. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.81 sci and 4.0 non-sci. Took the MCAT in May and got a 26M. I know I could have done better but I was too busy doing everything else to effectively study. Turns out to be ok :)

My overall undergrad GPA is a completely different story... I partied way too much in college the first time around. My AMCAS GPA is a 2.6 Overall and 2.8 Science. So I believed my only viable option was DO schools. After some retakes along with the pre-reqs, I got my AACOMAS GPA up to a 3.16 cGPA and 3.78 sGPA.

I applied and turned secondaries in to 2 MD schools and 8 DO schools. So far I've gotten 1 MD interview invite and 5 DO interview invites. I was waitlisted at my first two schools I interviewed at, making me very nervous. But yesterday I got a letter of acceptance from GA-PCOM!! But I will still interview at the MD school this Tuesday and I'll probably cancel one of my upcoming DO interviews and still go to the other.

So I guess here's what I have to say about my experience and advice I have to give:

1. Yes, it may be a major fluke and have to do with the state I'm from (Georgia), but even if your GPA and MCAT are considered hopeless for MD schools by SDN, you still may have a shot at an MD school because of your non-trad experience, so apply!! I still fully expect to get waitlisted or rejected at the MD school, because it's so unbelievable :laugh: But I fit their mission perfectly, which is very important, so we'll see! The point is, try, and apply logically. I know I'd never get into Emory with my GPA/MCAT, so I didn't apply. But I know the missions of MCG and Mercer, so I applied there. I knew I'm low for MCG too, but their secondary was free - so look into things like that.

2. If you're someone with a low GPA that is hard/impossible to bring up on AMCAS (I had A LOT of hours...it would take me 4 years to get barely over a 3.0 in both AO and Science), be open to DO schools. Their grade forgiveness really helps, and there are some really great DO schools out there. If you really want to be a doctor, then the initials shouldn't matter, so don't be stubborn.

3. Apply early! My AMCAS and AACOMAS were submitted Day 1. Secondaries submitted within a day or two of receipt. Early Primary = Early Secondary = Early Interview = MUCH better chance of acceptance. Don't procrastinate. Get it in.

4. Be prepared for questions in the interview about why you switched careers. And what happened that you had bad grades in undergrad (if applicable). And DON'T give excuses when they ask. Just own up to it. My first interview I said "oh I partied too much and wasn't focused and had a job..." Yeah...that didn't go over so well. I learned on the second interview to just say "I was young and immature, and it isn't a reflection of who I am now or what my standards are today." Leave it at that. Don't give them any reason to keep thinking or talking about it. They'll like you more for not giving excuses.

5. Do study harder for the MCAT than I did. My second interview went extremely well and I was completely in love with the school. When I called to ask why I was waitlisted, they told me it was because of my MCAT. So try a little harder...shoot for a high score. Your MCAT and GPA do matter even after the interview to the adcom. Which brings me to my next point...

6. I did all this in one year. I wouldn't recommend it. Everyone's different and thankfully I was able to handle it. But you may not be able to, or you may do better than I did. You know you. But if I had to go back, I'd spread it out over two years. This semester I'm taking Biochem, Genetics, Anatomy & Physiology 2, Cell Biology (and a couple others). But these classes really would have helped me on the MCAT. They aren't necessary, but I feel like I could bust out a 30+ now having had these. Again, it's up to you. Don't rush it. One more year is just a drop in the bucket.

7. Get your finances straight before you come back to school. I saved up a good chunk from when I was working full-time to help me while back in school. It didn't last as long as I'd liked. Primary/Secondaries and flying to interviews is very expensive. So save up how much you think you'll need, then double it.

That's all I can think of right now. Good luck to all you non-trad pre-meds out there. Be patient, it will happen. I'll update on the MD school and my other DO interviews. But right now, I'm completely excited that I've been accepted somewhere and I'll get to be a doctor!

Edit: WOW, Wall of text...sorry guys. Hope you find this useful and not annoying LOL

thank for sharing your story and congrat for your acceptance.
 
Congrats on the acceptance and I think I've seen your user handle on a different forum... :p

Best of luck to you!
 
Congrats on the acceptance and I think I've seen your user handle on a different forum... :p

Best of luck to you!

Thanks n3xa :) I thought that was you when I saw who posted last in this thread :laugh:

And for anyone wondering, the interview at the MD school went very well. So here's hoping the rest of the Adcom looks past my GPA. I really liked their program...It was a world of difference from DO schools since it has a hospital attached (the campus is AT the hospital) They said I'll know something next week :xf:
 
The following post is my complete story. The summary "lessons learned" are in the last paragraph and can be read as a standalone post, if you want to skip the autobiography.

I will be 48 when I start medical school in August. After reading a few posts about why older people should not apply to medical school, I started a thread called "Why I am not discouraged." In that thread I was accused of being arrogant. I confessed the fault, but rejected the cure. The thread was eventually shut down because it got so hostile.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=655410

But the medical school application process damaged my arrogance much more than any poster on SDN could.

A couple of years ago, I was a successful software engineer, working at home for reasonably good wages. I had a great desire to increase my commitment to serving others and had tried several different plans to make that happen. I first attempted to use my job's geographical independence to start a traveling evangelistic ministry. I met enough closed doors to know that wasn't going anywhere. I then attempted to look for ways to work 2 jobs and therefore retire early and do missionary work.

My children were starting college at the time, and I began helping them with their work. To my surprise, I realized that community colleges were actually quite affordable. I started the local community college as a nursing major, thinking that I could do 2 jobs and retire early with a useful missionary skill. During one of the college's career days, some of the admissions department from Oklahoma State University manned a table. After talking to them for a few moments, I realized that I had set my sites too low. I didn't need to work a second job as a nurse. I could be a doctor and be a truly effective part-time medical missionary.

I started investigating if this was possible. This is where I made my mistake. It looked too easy. All I had to do was take a few courses, complete my bachelors, take a standardized test (I'm good at standardized tests) and walk down the carpet into a glorious new profession. I didn't realize that there are millions of people who get good grades and can take standardized tests.

I knew that, at my age, I am in a race against time and I know that I am a good student. I enrolled for 12 hours of courses, including my first, ever, biology course (I had managed to graduate high school without taking biology). The first semester went well, so my arrogance increased.

The next semester I again registered 12 hours including Chem II at the CC. To my disgust, on the first day, I saw that the experienced teacher that I was expecting had been replaced with a new young girl who quoted sentences from the book word for word and didn't answer any difficult questions. I dropped the course, intending to study the subject for myself and CLEP it. This was a big mistake. Again, I was too arrogant to realize that Chem II is not an easy subject for anyone.


Despite this mistake, I managed a 33 on the MCAT, though only 9 on the BS. As I expected, the VR was fairly easy for me. I got a 13 there.

My final, and greatest, mistake was to apply at only 6 schools - excluding the local osteopathic school of OSU. I was pretty stuck on myself and my arrogance reached its height when I got an invitation to interview at Mayo. At this point, I figured that an acceptance Oklahoma University was assured and a Mayo place was possible. I congratulated myself on the wisdom of my applications.

All of this came crashing down around my head in early November when OU rejected me and (pretty rudely, actually) refused to give me any feedback on reasons. I was placed on hold with Mayo. I still had an interview coming up at Creighton, but I was getting the idea that medical school is not a shew-in for anyone.

I rushed to get my application into OSU and completed it on December 14th. On Dec 15th I was offered a January interview and received word yesterday, Feb. 8th, that I was accepted. This is particularly welcome because during this time period my job was outsourced to India and I was approved to received Trade Allowance credits that will pay for half of 2 years tuition and give me unemployment insurance during this time. I also have just started attending a church where I am in the leadership and am needed in the services. I can also keep my home by taking in fellow medical student boarders.

I have learned two things in the process. Firstly, even when I think that I am the bright and shining asteroid of brilliance that God saw when he looked down through the eons of creation, there are plenty of fallen stars who thought the same. No one, no matter how brilliant, is a shoo-in for Medical School. Apply to many schools. Secondly, as Shakespeare said, "There is a tide in the affairs of men, which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune." Sometimes, there is simply a correct path to take. I would simply call it the Will of God. In the past month I have come to realize that I should follow the led path.
 
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