Non-Traditional Applicant / Career Change - First Steps?

[304367]

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Hello, All

I'm interested in getting an MPH (specializing in hospital / health care administration) and I've been perusing this forum a bit to get some information on what my next step should be in gaining admission to a good program.

I have a B.S. in electrical engineering (~3.4 GPA) from a prestigious state school and a law degree from a top 20 law school. I worked in a patent law firm for a few years but was laid off in the current recession, and for a variety of reasons I feel that working in health care administration suits me better than does law.

After reading many threads on this forum, I understand there is a distinction between the science/clinical-based MPH route, which it seems most of you are pursuing, and the business/management-based MPH route.

Is an MPH what I actually want? I understand that an MHA or MHSA probably better suits my goals. I also see that U.S. News has a separate set of rankings for Masters in Healthcare Management programs (apart from MPH): http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ls/top-healthcare-management-schools/rankings

If I plan to apply this fall for admission in 2011, what sorts of experience do I need to have a competitive application? I have literally no research, clinical, or hospital experience, since I was on a different career path prior to the recession.

Is there any chance schools will accept my LSAT (166 - 95th percentile) and GMAT (740 - 97th percentile) scores in lieu of a GRE score if I petition?

Lastly, I would appreciate any additional advice. Thank you!

- JG

 

[FeedMeSushi]

Hi JohnGrisham,

I am also pursuing the business/management-based MPH route.
I suggest that you contact the different schools directly for the information re: types of experience.

With such a good GMAT score why don’t you look into B-schools with strong health administration courses/schools? Or B-schools that allow you to take electives at their public health/health adminstration schools? I feel that b-schools are more prepared/capable to foster and are more accepting of students who want a career change.

I think Yale (they also offer an E-MBA for health professionals) allows its MBA students to take electives in its public health school.

As far as MPHs go, I’m afraid I’m not too helpful. I only researched part time programs, for both MBA and MPH, and decided that Columbia’s MPH program was the only one I wanted to go to…which is why that is the only school I applied to.

Good luck to you!

 

[304367]

I actually took the GMAT with the intent to eventually apply to business school, but since I was laid off, I haven't been working and have only slightly over a year of work experience, which basically takes me out of contention for top programs. I may decide to apply to business schools this fall, but I don't feel good about my a chances of getting into a program such as Berkeley (which happens to have a dual MPH/MBA degree).

 

[JMM051]

I actually took the GMAT with the intent to eventually apply to business school, but since I was laid off, I haven't been working and have only slightly over a year of work experience, which basically takes me out of contention for top programs. I may decide to apply to business schools this fall, but I don't feel good about my a chances of getting into a program such as Berkeley (which happens to have a dual MPH/MBA degree).

My Boston U. catalog lists a dual MBA/MPH program.

 

[304367]

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[304367]

As far as MPHs go, I’m afraid I’m not too helpful. I only researched part time programs, for both MBA and MPH, and decided that Columbia’s MPH program was the only one I wanted to go to…which is why that is the only school I applied to.

FeedMeSushi: What is your impression of Columbia's MPH program in health policy and management (I'm assuming that you'll be specializing in this area since we share the same career aspirations). I don't see Columbia's program listed in the U.S. News rankings (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ls/top-healthcare-management-schools/rankings) and I don't seem to see any info on Columbia's MPH website about career prospects of its recent graduates.

 

[FeedMeSushi]

I actually took the GMAT with the intent to eventually apply to business school, but since I was laid off, I haven't been working and have only slightly over a year of work experience, which basically takes me out of contention for top programs. I may decide to apply to business schools this fall, but I don't feel good about my a chances of getting into a program such as Berkeley (which happens to have a dual MPH/MBA degree).

I'm confused, you only have over a year of experience but you worked a few years at a law firm? Or are you talking about a different job than your law firm job? I'm sure in today's economic environment admissions committees will understand the situation you're in...or I would hope so!

re: your other post

Old thread about why Columbia’s HPM program isn’t part of those rankings:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=609244&highlight=columbia+ranking

It says: “Columbia's School of Public Health is highly regarded and is ranked 6th in the nation. Their health management is considered to be part of the Mailman School of Public Health, so it is not considered for independent ranking within health management. If you're looking for health management within the public health field, it's a great program...”

I did not do research regarding career prospects since I plan to continue to work for the company I am working for now. But Columbia has a strong alumni network and since it’s located in NYC, I believe you will have access to a plethora of resources for jobs..maybe someone who graduated from Mailman can chime in?

Recent grads from Columbia’s MPH program:
http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/students/career-svcs/employers/employment-metrics

I don't know if schools will take your LSAT and GMAT scores in lieu of GRE scores but I would bet from your LSAT scores and GMAT scores you'll do well on the GRE. I found the GRE much easier than GMAT.

 

[304367]

I'm confused, you only have over a year of experience but you worked a few years at a law firm? Or are you talking about a different job than your law firm job? I'm sure in today's economic environment admissions committees will understand the situation you're in...or I would hope so!

re: your other post

Old thread about why Columbia’s HPM program isn’t part of those rankings:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=609244&highlight=columbia+ranking

It says: “Columbia's School of Public Health is highly regarded and is ranked 6th in the nation. Their health management is considered to be part of the Mailman School of Public Health, so it is not considered for independent ranking within health management. If you're looking for health management within the public health field, it's a great program...”

I did not do research regarding career prospects since I plan to continue to work for the company I am working for now. But Columbia has a strong alumni network and since it’s located in NYC, I believe you will have access to a plethora of resources for jobs..maybe someone who graduated from Mailman can chime in?

Recent grads from Columbia’s MPH program:
http://www.mailman.columbia.edu/students/career-svcs/employers/employment-metrics

I don't know if schools will take your LSAT and GMAT scores in lieu of GRE scores but I would bet from your LSAT scores and GMAT scores you'll do well on the GRE. I found the GRE much easier than GMAT.

I worked for a year and three months to be precise (easier to just say a few years, even if it's not totally accurate).

Since Mailman is technically a public health school, do you see any reason why a degree from Mailman, even if it's in health management, would be any less attractive to employers in the private (versus public) sector? If you don't mind me asking, what is the nature of the work that you do now?

I think the key for me at this point is to find relevant work/volunteer experience in the health care field ASAP to convince admissions committees (whether B-School or MPH) that I am serious about this transition by the time I would apply, 9 or 10 months from now. I do see this as a challenge, since my current background doesn't exactly lend itself nicely to a health care.

 

[erikalindsay]

It sounds like an MHA is the route you should look into further. I have an MPH and took one course with the MHA students. They have very very very different career goals (and often perspectives) than those of us who were in the MPH program, and took almost all separate courses from us. The type of work that is done by people with an MPH versus an MHA are usually very different. If you are looking into hospital administration, I'm not sure an MBA/MPH would be the easiest route for you to accomplish that, especially since you already have an advanced degree.

If you're applying for MHA programs, they very well may accept your GMAT score rather than require you take the GRE. You should look around to see what each school you would like to apply to would require. Good luck!

 

[FeedMeSushi]

I'm corporate and less clinical although I am currently in a "clinical" department. I work for a Fortune 50 healthcare insurance company..Please PM if you want more details.

I know at Kaiser, for the healthcare administration rotation/fellowship program there, they accept all types of graduate degrees.

erikalindsay gives great advice. I personally didn't look into MHA degrees bc I couldn't find any schools that offered a part time program that I would want to go to.

I've interned/worked for a not-for-profit company (also interned at a more clinical MOB) and for-profit companies, and I have seen MBA, MPH, MPP, and MHA degrees at the executive level.

 

[lalluraja1]

Hey JG-

I'm in a similar situation. Just wondering what decision you made and if you're found any good reserach on MHA programs and post-grad employment scenario.

Cheers-

 

[Confuzzled2]

Hello, All

I'm interested in getting an MPH (specializing in hospital / health care administration) and I've been perusing this forum a bit to get some information on what my next step should be in gaining admission to a good program.

I have a B.S. in electrical engineering (~3.4 GPA) from a prestigious state school and a law degree from a top 20 law school. I worked in a patent law firm for a few years but was laid off in the current recession, and for a variety of reasons I feel that working in health care administration suits me better than does law.

After reading many threads on this forum, I understand there is a distinction between the science/clinical-based MPH route, which it seems most of you are pursuing, and the business/management-based MPH route.

Is an MPH what I actually want? I understand that an MHA or MHSA probably better suits my goals. I also see that U.S. News has a separate set of rankings for Masters in Healthcare Management programs (apart from MPH): http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ls/top-healthcare-management-schools/rankings

If I plan to apply this fall for admission in 2011, what sorts of experience do I need to have a competitive application? I have literally no research, clinical, or hospital experience, since I was on a different career path prior to the recession.

Is there any chance schools will accept my LSAT (166 - 95th percentile) and GMAT (740 - 97th percentile) scores in lieu of a GRE score if I petition?

Lastly, I would appreciate any additional advice. Thank you!

- JG

Hello JohnGrisham.. I came from a similar situation albeit completely different. I worked form 1 year and 3 months at a consulting firm when I started applying to MBA and MPH programs to get into Healthcare Management, a more business focused degree. (I'm starting an MPH at Yale for Health Management this Fall)

From an applicant that got accepted to all of his MBA and MPH programs, your profile is amazing. Believe me, i didn't think I was going to get in to half the programs I applied to with my mediocre profile..

That whole "average years of work experience" crap they spew on the FAQs at the top business programs is just a number and nothing else. Each applicant is different and each school looks for different things. I personally know 2 people who got into HBS for this next year with less than 2 years of work experience. I know HBS actually looks for younger candidates than other schools. Wharton looks for more experienced candidates. Kellogg looks for team based work experience. Booth looks for more academic candidates. At the end of the day it's all about how you spin your experience...

PM me if you want more details.

P.S. most schools have a MPH/MBA degree..you just have to look around.

 

[lalluraja1]

I respectfully disagree, confuzzled2. You are in a completely different position w/ respect to MBA schools. People with IB and consulting background are in a whole different bucket for bschool admissions. Those with advanced degrees (such as JD) are fringe candidates who are used to "round out the class." so by definition you're not considered for the bulk of the seats. Of course, there are exceptions for exceptional accomplishment. Plus pedigree matters a lot for top 10 b schools. kellogg, chicago and yale are a bit different-- but the first two require a lot more work xp and yale's place as a top 10 is matter of debate (see bschool newsweek forums if you want more on this).

Bottom line-- it depends on what you want to do after school. IB and top tier consulting in health care? Then go to a top 10 bschool. they give you a broader flavor and the degree is more versatile if your heart is not in hc. if your heart is in hc and you want to get into administration, then go with MHA. it is more specialized. For eaxmple, you'll learn finance, but with a heavy focus on health care fiannce. That is what I have found in my research (conversatons with current students at various programs - MBA, MPH and MHA-- and with practiotioners in hosp mgmt)

 

[Confuzzled2]

Hi lalluraja1, I wasnt trying to turn this into a debate on which path to pursue and what school trumps which and what's the ideal candidate for what degree. And nowhere did I claim that Yale was a top 10 program (although it is now top 1 in my heart). After all, I'm going into the MPh program so that doesn't pertain to me.

All I'm saying is, I had worse stats than JG did and I got into my programs. Just have to spin a story and apply with it (which i'm sure is not hard for you JDs 🙂). 740 gmat is amazing. I personally thought the GRE was alot easier than the GMAT so 1350+ should not be a problem.

Sorry, but I can't possibly see how having a JD degree could be a detriment to your application to any Masters program. While it is true that B schools reserve a certain amount of seats for candidates from an IB or consulting background, 30-40% of B school students are not from these 2 industries (this is coming straight from the mouths of ad com reps).

Furthermore, a law degree allows you to stand out from this pack of applicants. Correct me if I'm wrong but there couldn't be more than 10% of any schools applicant pool with a JD degree, which should qualify you as an "exceptional candidate", no?

Just to reiterate my point- any hesitation in applying to any program is unwarranted

 

[Stories]

Hi lalluraja1, I wasnt trying to turn this into a debate on which path to pursue and what school trumps which and what's the ideal candidate for what degree. And nowhere did I claim that Yale was a top 10 program (although it is now top 1 in my heart). After all, I'm going into the MPh program so that doesn't pertain to me.

All I'm saying is, I had worse stats than JG did and I got into my programs. Just have to spin a story and apply with it (which i'm sure is not hard for you JDs 🙂). 740 gmat is amazing. I personally thought the GRE was alot easier than the GMAT so 1350+ should not be a problem.

Sorry, but I can't possibly see how having a JD degree could be a detriment to your application to any Masters program. While it is true that B schools reserve a certain amount of seats for candidates from an IB or consulting background, 30-40% of B school students are not from these 2 industries (this is coming straight from the mouths of ad com reps).

Furthermore, a law degree allows you to stand out from this pack of applicants. Correct me if I'm wrong but there couldn't be more than 10% of any schools applicant pool with a JD degree, which should qualify you as an "exceptional candidate", no?

Just to reiterate my point- any hesitation in applying to any program is unwarranted

Schools have an interesting take on possessing an advanced degree in a field and trying to jump into another. For instance, I know someone who had a JD from Georgetown, but decided to switch it up a bit and apply for a PhD in epidemiology. She didn't even get a sniff from a single school (one school asked if she'd be interested in a MPH instead, but that was the only response from a single school). So it just goes to show you, you really can never be too sure what a committee is looking for in an applicant.

Also, you have to imagine that a person who is switching up completely would be reviewed just as critically as someone who doesn't have the past degree because the said degree is completely unrelated to the one he/she is applying to now. If you're using a degree that's related (from a MPH -> PhD in public health), then that'll give you a step up, obviously, since you'll have a clear idea and direction. I think that's the misconception most people have of what differentiates a good candidate from a great candidate for admission: a good candidate has solid numbers and letters of recommendation; a great candidate has all that plus a very well defined and clear objective for what the education he/she is pursuing will provide.