I graduated with a BS in 2005 and in 2007 decided to do EMS and have been a paramedic for over 3 years and an EMT for a year and a half before that... It made me realize how much I enjoy medicine. I was premed before drastically changing major to business. Before the change, I had completed 4 terms of calculus, 4 terms of physics, one year of general chem but only two terms of O-chem. I went back to school in 2007 for an associated in emergency medicine and had to do a year of Bio... So to the point... Turns out I was short one term of O-chem. i have always been a great student so with my GPA I convinced a local college professor to let me into his O-chem class to finish off the series... My question is, will it be a deal breaking issue to have my pre req classes so spaced out? What other pit falls should I watch out for in the application process with my background?
Non-traditional paramedic to MD or DO
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As with traditional applicants, the starting point is what is your GPA and what is your MCAT score? I assume you have no MCAT yet, so that will have a huge impact on how competitive you are. If you have just one semester of a single class to take to have all the pre-reqs complete (you took the labs with all the sciences, right?) you may want to take a few other classes like biochemistry, cell bio, micro bio, genetics, Anatomy and Physiology, etc. to have some recent science coursework on your application. How important it is to add more classes on depends on your GPA. The fact that you took the pre-reqs over a longer period of time will have minimal negative impact on your chances, and taking a semester or two of science classes now will show you are still a capable student.
As far as other pitfalls, how much contact have you had with your science professors? Most schools want LOR's from two science faculty plus one non-science faculty member. Those you want to begin to line up as soon as possible, if you are planning to apply this summer. MCAT study is very important, so you will want to dedicate a good chunk of time to that with minimal obligations to distract you from studying. If you are apply this summer, you will need everything lined up by June, or as early in July as possible, which means you don't want to set up an MCAT date any later than July (the scores will be released in August, but the application can be submitted and transcripts sent in for verification before then).
Other than that, read around this forum and let us know if you have any other questions.
Thank you very much for a rapid and extremely helpful reply. Yes I did take all the labs associated with those class's and did very well. My science GPA is around 3.3 the over all is 3.5. I have registered for the MCATs in April and have began studying very aggressively (6-8) hours a day. I have kept in contact with some of my science professors and will reach out to others. Thank you again for the input. Anything else you can think of I am all ears for input. This is a scary and stressful leap but something I've been talking about doing for years.
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Only thing would be shadowing of doctors in various specialties. You have a ton more clinical experience than most applicants from your paramedic experience I am sure, but you want to be able to say you saw what doctors do in various specialties. Any volunteering that you have an interest in would also be a plus, but do something you want to do, not simply to check a box.
With a 3.3 science GPA, that is certainly not horrible but you would probably do well to add a few more upper level classes and pull A's in all of them just to boost your numbers there. The 3.5 overall is a little below average but should be good for most MD schools, depending on how you do on the MCAT.
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I am an EMT and I dropped out of paramedic school to pursue medicine.
I mentioned my patient care/contact experiences, but was sure to emphasize that I understood EMS is not medicine, and that I got my physician contact through other means (i.e. shadowing).
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I was a medic for almost 15 years before I went back to school, then to medical school. I am now a 45 year old PGY2.
I didn't shadow any doctors. I worked with plenty of them during my time as a paramedic. I did, however, have letters from my boss, my medical director, and my professors (I was a math/chem dual major when I went back). Not one single interviewer said I should have done shadowing due to the vast amount of time I had spent in the field and my experiences there. I also had time teaching ACLS, PALS, AMLS, BTLS, etc. Perhaps however with only 3 years as a paramedic... you might want a physician letter.
I too thought I would do EM. But frankly, after being a paramedic for so long I found the ED ... well..... boring. All the fun stuff had been done already. I gravitated much more toward IM, and now particularly the ICU.
the ICU. Wish I was younger, I would apply for critical care fellowship.
Point is, don't pigeon-hole yourself. Everyone is "positive" they want to do a particular specialty. Few stick with their initial thoughts and over 80% change their minds during 3rd and 4th year. Keep an open mind.
If you want more specifics, feel free to do a search. I've been pretty open about my past, my app cycles and my experiences. And I'm happy to answer any more questions, but give me a few days to answer. I'm in the ICU this month pushing work hour restrictions.
I didn't shadow any doctors. I worked with plenty of them during my time as a paramedic. I did, however, have letters from my boss, my medical director, and my professors (I was a math/chem dual major when I went back). Not one single interviewer said I should have done shadowing due to the vast amount of time I had spent in the field and my experiences there. I also had time teaching ACLS, PALS, AMLS, BTLS, etc. Perhaps however with only 3 years as a paramedic... you might want a physician letter.
I too thought I would do EM. But frankly, after being a paramedic for so long I found the ED ... well..... boring. All the fun stuff had been done already. I gravitated much more toward IM, and now particularly the ICU.
the ICU. Wish I was younger, I would apply for critical care fellowship.Point is, don't pigeon-hole yourself. Everyone is "positive" they want to do a particular specialty. Few stick with their initial thoughts and over 80% change their minds during 3rd and 4th year. Keep an open mind.
If you want more specifics, feel free to do a search. I've been pretty open about my past, my app cycles and my experiences. And I'm happy to answer any more questions, but give me a few days to answer. I'm in the ICU this month pushing work hour restrictions.
Wow thank you for such a detailed response... Yeah 3 years is a bit low but I want to get on board earlier rather then later. I am definitely keeping an open mind about where I will end up... But I figured having a goal isn't so bad. I will definitely take you up on your offer with questions as they arise. Thank you again... Back to reading for now...
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D.O. admissions with a 26+ will be a cakewalk for you. If you score really high on the MCAT (34+), I can see an MD college taking you under its wing.
I became a medic before going to college and worked during college. I'm in my 2nd year of med school, still certified, and occasionally working doing critical care transport and also teaching for a community college paramedic program. It will be 7 years as a medic this spring. Any questions, PM me.
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Wow, I am kind of surprised. I was not aware that there were this many non-trads with our background but it makes sense . All of the above info is good and accurate but I would also like to stress the point of when you are in your interviews, make sure you have a good understanding of the differences between EMS and medicine. Really have something in mind to explain your change in career plans and why you wanted to switch. I feel I kind of fumbled a bit when I was confronted with these questions during the interview process. I am just starting this fall and I am curious about picking a specialty as well. I was also very set in EM since this is why I initially got a job with my FD. But like ShyRem and my interviewer both said, I would probably pick another area. We will soon see. Also, if you look in the MCAT section of SDN, there is a poster ( I forgot his Name) that has a 3 month study plan for the MCAT that looks unbelievable. I really wish that I had found it before hand rather than studying 8 hours a day on my own for a month straight. The rest of your app seems fine but I also would agree that a couple more science classes to boost your GPA would be extremely beneficial. Just polish out a great MCAT and you will get in somewhere. I was employed for about 4yrs with my department and I still did some volunteering with some of the ER docs I knew and the medical director for our department. I think it really helped me understand why I wanted to go into medicine. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask, as I just finished up and put my deposit down to start this fall.
. All of the above info is good and accurate but I would also like to stress the point of when you are in your interviews, make sure you have a good understanding of the differences between EMS and medicine. Really have something in mind to explain your change in career plans and why you wanted to switch. I feel I kind of fumbled a bit when I was confronted with these questions during the interview process. I am just starting this fall and I am curious about picking a specialty as well. I was also very set in EM since this is why I initially got a job with my FD. But like ShyRem and my interviewer both said, I would probably pick another area. We will soon see. Also, if you look in the MCAT section of SDN, there is a poster ( I forgot his Name) that has a 3 month study plan for the MCAT that looks unbelievable. I really wish that I had found it before hand rather than studying 8 hours a day on my own for a month straight. The rest of your app seems fine but I also would agree that a couple more science classes to boost your GPA would be extremely beneficial. Just polish out a great MCAT and you will get in somewhere. I was employed for about 4yrs with my department and I still did some volunteering with some of the ER docs I knew and the medical director for our department. I think it really helped me understand why I wanted to go into medicine. If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask, as I just finished up and put my deposit down to start this fall.
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Welcome to the club! You'll find a good number of people (myself included) who have gone / are going Fire & EMS --> M.D.
While there's nothing wrong with starting a new discussion right here, I advise you to also do a bit of searching to try and find some old topics on the subject. Lots and lots of information already available out there, and you'll probably find answers to most of your questions quicker than waiting for us to respond.
That's really cool. I've wondered how feasible it would be to stay current with national registry while going through med school. In my head I have a dream of being able to continue volunteering as a firefighter / medic every so often while going through med school, although in reality I imagine this wouldn't be practical (both in terms of time committment and staying sharp on skills).
While there's nothing wrong with starting a new discussion right here, I advise you to also do a bit of searching to try and find some old topics on the subject. Lots and lots of information already available out there, and you'll probably find answers to most of your questions quicker than waiting for us to respond.
That's really cool. I've wondered how feasible it would be to stay current with national registry while going through med school. In my head I have a dream of being able to continue volunteering as a firefighter / medic every so often while going through med school, although in reality I imagine this wouldn't be practical (both in terms of time committment and staying sharp on skills).
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I was an EMT for 20 years and am now an Internal Medicine Resident. While being an EMT was certainly beneficial, one of the hardest things I found to do was to stop thinking like an EMT and start thinking like a Doctor. However, your experience doing patient interviews and assessments are very handy when doing clinicals.
Truthfully, I don't work too much. Teaching is ~3 hours a week and I don't do it around exams (usually). I tend to only pick up shifts on breaks or just after exams. However, I tend to think I'm more conservative when it comes to work as other medics, who are are also medical students, seem to work more. A 3rd year I know tends to put in about 24 hours a month, as does another. I knew medic who worked full time while in medical school. She work nights at a slow ambulance service. An attending I know worked for a flight service while in medical school. Anyhow, it is doable. I did have to quit my "911" job as I couldn't maintain the minimum required hours (24/month). I'm much more comfortable doing critical care as the patients are usually stable and I don't have to worry much about keeping my skills "up" as intubation is a rarity, as is lining someone in the back of a moving ambulance. Much of the skill of critical care is between the ears and I feel that is something I have been able to maintain, if not enhance, since starting medical school. But, I honestly miss doing 911 calls, so I might start volunteering to get that aspect.
Anyhow, for what it is worth, I do think having worked as a medic has been an advantage to some extent. I have had to adjust to taking a history using open-ended questions and using subtle approaches to coaxing a history out of a patient (e.g. "tell me more", "go on", and *silence*), which is rarely done in EMS, but I don't think the adjustment was too difficult. Much of cardiac and pulmonary physiology was a breeze. I didn't ever open an ECG book when everyone else was losing their minds. Lung sounds are cake, and I'm not nervous when interacting with a real patient for the first time. I'm not having to learn terms like "dyspnea", "orthopnea", or "syncope" like my classmates, which is nice. This is not to say I'm honoring everything (actually I haven't honored anything, I'd be solid B student if they used letter grades), but just that I don't think I've stressed as much, and maybe have even taken it easy at some points.
Anyhow, some of my info for the pre-med EMTs and medics... 32Q, 3.8c/3.7s. I didn't do any research. The only volunteering I did was pre-college when I was an EMT. I shadowed for a total of 4 hours to get a LOR from a DO for my apps to DO schools. I noted the hours I spent in-hospital as part of my medic training (which for me was ~400 hours). I played up my medic experience in the prehospital and critical care setting. I made note of the different environments that I worked (urban, suburban, and rural), and my experience with being part of the EMS response to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I also made sure to mention my teaching experiences. (Of course, I did have plenty of other experiences to talk about; I didn't solely rely on my EMS experiences.)
Really play up your experiences working as a paramedic. They are very unique. If you have spent a lot of time as an EMT or paramedic, you will have experienced more medicine and patient care than almost all other applicants, and in a way that almost all medical students and physicians never will. However, you should realize that most interviewers and ad-coms will not know much, if anything, about EMS.
Anyhow, I gotta get to studying. It's good to see other medics applying and other medics working as docs. Best of luck!
I am a paramedic as well starting the process of applying. I attained my bs degree about 8 years ago and finally finished my on again off again masters degree. I have major fears that my undergrad grades will not be up to par (3.5) and I just took the mcat, on the 27th and now I am waiting to take the next step. I was hoping that the paramedic angle may help to admissions to at least ask for an interview, if nothing else out if curiosity
Guess we will see...
Guess we will see...
Thank you all who have replied it has been insightful. I went ahead and researched some older posts as well. I apologize for not replying sooner been real busy with retaking O-chem... But I did get an A on my first midterm... Well back to studying hope to be answering question like these for future applicants one day
Just wanted to thank all that gave me advice. I finished Ochem and took microbiology got all A's my final over all GPA was over 3.67, I believe, and science bumped up as well to over 3.3 MCAT was a struggle without a prep coarse but managed a 23 ... Just got accepted to PNWU in Washington for their DO program! Had really strong LOR's and the interview went really well. Thank you again, and I am looking forward to starting this next fall
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Congrats on your acceptance! I am also a non-trad professional EMT-I that started DO school a few months ago.
Be sure to get really excited and know that you are going to have a huge leg up on the vast majority of your classmates, just because you are already used to touching people. And all your experience won't be a burden, either.
Be sure to get really excited and know that you are going to have a huge leg up on the vast majority of your classmates, just because you are already used to touching people. And all your experience won't be a burden, either.
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There are quite a few EMT's in my class. And a guy a mentor is a MS1 @ LECOM after being an EMT.
It's really true that as the transition to clinical medicine happens, you guys have that leg up. Like in ACLS/BLS training/certification, while some of us have never placed an IV or IO IV, you guys have been doing those already. YES, we have to learn how to backboard someone, and know what to do when there's a suspect MI. You EMT's probably saw those and worked on that 1-2x/day! If your certs stay current, I think you can opt out of attending the cert classes. Depending on your school's policy.
Congrats! Good luck! Enjoy the endless hours of studying on your new adventure!
Best of luck to you!
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I should probably toss my name in the hat.
I started college in 2009 as a nursing major. I became an EMT in high school, went to paramedic school starting spring semester my freshman year, switched to pre-med my sophomore year, now I work casual (usually 1-2 weekends/month plus breaks) at a small town hospital where I do ER when Im not on calls (Great experience)
When I talked to the dean of students for the medical school I am hoping to get into (instate), he seemed very positive about my background experience.
Now, to get that pesky sGPA up.
I started college in 2009 as a nursing major. I became an EMT in high school, went to paramedic school starting spring semester my freshman year, switched to pre-med my sophomore year, now I work casual (usually 1-2 weekends/month plus breaks) at a small town hospital where I do ER when Im not on calls (Great experience)
When I talked to the dean of students for the medical school I am hoping to get into (instate), he seemed very positive about my background experience.
Now, to get that pesky sGPA up.
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Paramedic for almost five years, in EMS for ten total. Bachelor's Degree in a health related field. Currently a supervisor. Recently accepted for class of 2017, DO.
I do think being a paramedic is a very unique career, particularly the seriousness of the profession. When you get that question, "What was your most rewarding healthcare related experience? or "What was one of the most difficult situations in your job?", you can actually answer this with any number of interesting experiences. I also think it gives you a good perspective of the role of allied health professionals in the overall healthcare system. Depending on the EMS system, paramedics do some pretty cool things. RSI, induced hypothermia, FAST ultrasound, pushing drugs, etc. Some of these things have serious implications and you're given the opportunity to do them, with relative independence, many years before medical school. It's a tremendous responsibility
I don't know what to think as far as medical school goes. I'm under no illusion that it will be difficult, especially the first year sciences. I do think some things will be a bit easier. Things like SOAP notes, obtaining a history, starting IVs, etc, but this is only one part of being a physician. We'll see. I have a friend, himself a former paramedic, who is in EM residency. He's like (paraphrased), "Listen, there are a lot of parallels. The basic flow is about the same. As a paramedic, you're transporting or processing a refusal. Perhaps you're in a progressive system and you're doing referrals. As an EM physician, you're either treating and discharging or punting it to someone else. If you want the deep satisfaction of always knowing what is exactly wrong with your patient, don't do EM. Sure, there are plenty of times where you're going to make the diagnosis, but some etiologies take time. The economics of a modern ED don't allow you a lot of time, so you stabilize and push it to a floor for someone else to figure out." The relative similarities really had him looking at other specialties for quite some time and I remember the difficulty he had with deciding a specialty. He said the comfort that he felt in the ED was off putting, because it felt too comfortable.
I do think being a paramedic is a very unique career, particularly the seriousness of the profession. When you get that question, "What was your most rewarding healthcare related experience? or "What was one of the most difficult situations in your job?", you can actually answer this with any number of interesting experiences. I also think it gives you a good perspective of the role of allied health professionals in the overall healthcare system. Depending on the EMS system, paramedics do some pretty cool things. RSI, induced hypothermia, FAST ultrasound, pushing drugs, etc. Some of these things have serious implications and you're given the opportunity to do them, with relative independence, many years before medical school. It's a tremendous responsibility
I don't know what to think as far as medical school goes. I'm under no illusion that it will be difficult, especially the first year sciences. I do think some things will be a bit easier. Things like SOAP notes, obtaining a history, starting IVs, etc, but this is only one part of being a physician. We'll see. I have a friend, himself a former paramedic, who is in EM residency. He's like (paraphrased), "Listen, there are a lot of parallels. The basic flow is about the same. As a paramedic, you're transporting or processing a refusal. Perhaps you're in a progressive system and you're doing referrals. As an EM physician, you're either treating and discharging or punting it to someone else. If you want the deep satisfaction of always knowing what is exactly wrong with your patient, don't do EM. Sure, there are plenty of times where you're going to make the diagnosis, but some etiologies take time. The economics of a modern ED don't allow you a lot of time, so you stabilize and push it to a floor for someone else to figure out." The relative similarities really had him looking at other specialties for quite some time and I remember the difficulty he had with deciding a specialty. He said the comfort that he felt in the ED was off putting, because it felt too comfortable.
