Non-traditional student questions

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Pseu Do Nym

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Hello,

I am considering going to med school and have a few questions. First, a bit about myself:

I am 34 years old and hold a bachelor's in Biochem (magna cum laude) and a master's in Chemical and Biochemical Engineering (summa cum laude).

I received straight "A"s in all of the courses required for pre med (bio, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics and English).

I've been out of academia for close to 5 years, so I'd probably have to brush up to take the MCAT.

I have a total of 2 years experience of scientific research in academia, 1 year at a government internship and 5 years in industry.

I have been volunteering at my local hospital for 3 months and plan on doing so indefinitely.


My questions are numerous, so please bear with me:

  1. I currently make decent money (~$70k per year). If I were to attend med school, how would I be able to fund day-to-day expenses?
  2. I've filled out my FAFSA in grad school and I recall it asks for your income for the previous year to determine family contribution. As I said earlier, I make ~$70k, but in med school I would be making $0. Would my previous year's income affect my ability to get federal loan assistance?
  3. I know you have to take out a lot of loans to go to med school, and that after med school you are required to complete an internship and a residency. I also know interning and residency pay very little. Can you get student loans put on deferment/forbearance during internship and residency?
  4. The area of medicine I want to specialize in is anesthesiology. I know that there is a shortage of anesthesiologists in the country. Are there any scholarships/special loans for people who plan on pursuing this specialty?

I thank you for your time and and thank you in advance. I will also be posting this on the non traditional forum

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1. Loans (unless you have significant savings).
2. Federal loan assistance? Do you mean aid? Hahaha, you are funny. See #1.
*Note, I am not being mean. It will cost an arm and a leg unless you give up a pound of flesh (i.e. see #4) or receive a merit scholarship (rare). They will also be using your parents income as well if you want to be considered for need based aid (some schools make an exception if you are married).
3. As far as I know (I'm only a first year), you can go into forbearance during residency. But you should at least pay the interest.
4. NHSC program (and anesthesiology is not one of the specialties). Your other option? HPSP.

Good luck! I am also a non-trad. Stay focused!
 
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1. Loans (unless you have significant savings).
2. Federal loan assistance? Do you mean aid? Hahaha, you are funny. See #1.

perhaps I misworded. Would I qualify for federal student loans (forget I used the terms "assistance" or "aid)?
 
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perhaps I misworded. Would I qualify for federal student loans (forget I used the terms "assistance" or "aid)?
Absolutely! However, there is a yearly limit (~40K) and a lifetime cap (~250K). Once you exceed the yearly/lifetime cap via tuition + expenses, the rest of the bill will have to be paid via grad plus loans (credit-based) or private loans, with grad+ being your best option.
 
Ideally, you should go into medical school with no credit card debt and a good (or no) credit rating. Also keep in mind that the application process is expensive (MCAT fee, application fees, cost of travel to interviews) so you'll need to save or use credit cards for those expenses. Start living frugally and start saving to reduce your reliance on loans and credit cards (essentially high interest loans unless you have a sweet initial rate).
 
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Hello,

I am considering going to med school and have a few questions. First, a bit about myself:

I am 34 years old and hold a bachelor's in Biochem (magna cum laude) and a master's in Chemical and Biochemical Engineering (summa cum laude).

I received straight "A"s in all of the courses required for pre med (bio, chemistry, organic chemistry, physics and English).

I've been out of academia for close to 5 years, so I'd probably have to brush up to take the MCAT.

I have a total of 2 years experience of scientific research in academia, 1 year at a government internship and 5 years in industry.

I have been volunteering at my local hospital for 3 months and plan on doing so indefinitely.


My questions are numerous, so please bear with me:

  1. I currently make decent money (~$70k per year). If I were to attend med school, how would I be able to fund day-to-day expenses?
  2. I've filled out my FAFSA in grad school and I recall it asks for your income for the previous year to determine family contribution. As I said earlier, I make ~$70k, but in med school I would be making $0. Would my previous year's income affect my ability to get federal loan assistance?
  3. I know you have to take out a lot of loans to go to med school, and that after med school you are required to complete an internship and a residency. I also know interning and residency pay very little. Can you get student loans put on deferment/forbearance during internship and residency?
  4. The area of medicine I want to specialize in is anesthesiology. I know that there is a shortage of anesthesiologists in the country. Are there any scholarships/special loans for people who plan on pursuing this specialty?

I thank you for your time and and thank you in advance. I will also be posting this on the non traditional forum
3.Your prior year income will affect your loan application the first 2 years, but after that with an income of $0 you will be eligible.
Best thing you can do right now is save up as much cash as you can to provide for yourself those first two years and fund your application process.
Internship and residency pay a living wage these days (average wage is 51,000) so living on a budget you will be able to make your rent, eat, and make your interest payments on any loans.
If you get a loan labeled "subsidized", you can put off all payments during med school. An "unsubsidized" loan requires interest- only payments while in school.
The specialty you choose will not affect your loan eligibility. By then(residency) you will be earning money and not taking out more loans.

Spend some time on this site which explains the types of loans and how to apply. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/
 
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3.Your prior year income will affect your loan application the first 2 years, but after that with an income of $0 you will be eligible.
Best thing you can do right now is save up as much cash as you can to provide for yourself those first two years and fund your application process.
Internship and residency pay a living wage these days (40,000 or more ) so living on a budget you will be able to make your rent, eat, and make your interest payments on any loans.
If you get a loan labeled "subsidized", you can put off all payments during med school. An "unsubsidized" loan requires interest- only payments while in school.
The specialty you choose will not affect your loan eligibility. By then(residency) you will be earning money and not taking out more loans.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am fairly certain that unsubsidized loans ACCRUE interest while in school (as opposed to forcing one to pay for interest while in school). Subsidized loans do not accrue interest while in school. If I'm wrong, my student loan company is slacking...
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am fairly certain that unsubsidized loans ACCRUE interest while in school (as opposed to forcing one to pay for interest while in school). Subsidized loans do not accrue interest while in school. If I'm wrong, my student loan company is slacking...
Subsidized loans do accrue interest while you are in school, the federal gov't just pays it for you. You start paying it, and your loan payments, within 6 months of finishing your studies.
To get a subsidized loan requires that you demonstrate financial need. You can get an unsubsidized loan without demonstrating need.
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#subsidized-vs-unsubsidized
I am sure your loan company is doing what it needs, but it's always good to review things once a year to remind yourself of what's coming up and when
 
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I've been out of academia for close to 5 years
You'll want to take a class or two to show you can still handle being in the classroom. Since your academic bona fines are very strong, it doesn't matter what you take or where, just get a couple of fresh grades. Undergrad is fine. Astronomy, Latin, genetics, microbio, doesn't really matter.

You need letters of recommendation from faculty who taught you in science classes, and if you can't get those from your prior studies, then you need to get letters out of fresh coursework. Generally you want 3-4 science faculty letters and a non-science faculty letter. An employer letter is good as well but there's no assumption that an employer has any clue what med school preparedness requires (vs science faculty). Med schools specify how many letters they want.
, so I'd probably have to brush up to take the MCAT.
Yes. That means spending the time and money to do rigorous content review and test prep. Usually that means spending $1500 - $2500 on a course (online or classroom) but you can find study programs detailed in the MCAT forum.
I have been volunteering at my local hospital for 3 months and plan on doing so indefinitely.
Good. Look for, and take advantage of, opportunities to get 1:1 time with physicians in clinic or in the OR. One major objective of clinical experience prior to med school is to look for reasons not to go to med school. Such as that you maybe really don't like being in a hospital. Such as that you maybe can't stand having to work on a mixed-discipline team. Such as that you maybe hate sick people. Such as that you maybe don't actually want to be without income for 7-10 years.

Get to the places such as the physician lounge where you can listen to old docs opine about how good things used to be and how screwed up everything is now - and then dilute their opinions with your own analysis of health care delivery. You should be reading at least one major newspaper's health section every day (such as NYT, WSJ, WaPo). There are many ways to get up to speed: read books, start following ASlavitt on twitter (former head of CMS), never miss an Atul Gawande piece, etc. Find and read things that challenge you. Find and read things by people with whom you disagree. Absolutely nothing on major news outlets is useful - you will learn nothing from CNN, Fox, MSNBC etc.

What? You're interested in the science, but the stuff about politics and healthcare delivery aren't interesting? That's fine if you are willing to let other people determine all of the terms of your employment and the scope of your practice as a physician. That's fine if you don't care what state or county you will study, train or live in. That's fine if you're willing to find out after 7-10 years of training without income that your basic understanding of the business of medicine is completely off.
I currently make decent money (~$70k per year). If I were to attend med school, how would I be able to fund day-to-day expenses?
Student loans in med school cover living expenses. Each med school publishes a budget based on cost of living in the area, and you can borrow up to that budget. It's very important to not have consumer debt going into med school - you can't cover a car loan or credit card debt. Having a way to make some income is a huge asset, if you're able to use your current employment to get a gig now and then.
I've filled out my FAFSA in grad school and I recall it asks for your income for the previous year to determine family contribution. As I said earlier, I make ~$70k, but in med school I would be making $0. Would my previous year's income affect my ability to get federal loan assistance?
Family contribution is not taken into consideration for federal loans for professional school such as MD/DO/DDS/DMD. Your and your family's income only matter for school-specific aid such as the various $1500 per year "Dr Joe Memorial" scholarships that the alumni orgs fund. Free ride or mostly-free ride scholarships are rare.
I know you have to take out a lot of loans to go to med school, and that after med school you are required to complete an internship and a residency. I also know interning and residency pay very little. Can you get student loans put on deferment/forbearance during internship and residency?
Yes. As it stands, there are a few basic strategies for student loan debt management in residency that should be fairly stable regardless of whether we're at war with China or if there's a Calexit etc. You can defer/forbear but that's a mistake - you'll want to be in an income-based repayment plan that has interest subsidies and eventual forgiveness. Down the road you will need to learn whatever the repayment plans are. For now if you summarily understand REPAYE and maybe PSLF, that's enough.
The area of medicine I want to specialize in is anesthesiology. I know that there is a shortage of anesthesiologists in the country. Are there any scholarships/special loans for people who plan on pursuing this specialty?
Don't go to med school if there's only one thing you'd be happy with on the other side. It's considered cute when premeds already know what they want to be, because you have no exposure yet to what it's like to bear all-day all-night responsibility for patients. Sometimes a premed ambition holds steady, but it's not the norm, and you may or may not do well enough in med school to get to choose.

Meanwhile, you need to know what a CRNA is, and you need to decide if hiring/firing/managing CRNAs is what you want to do for a big chunk of your career.

There are no doctor shortages in desirable locations. Premeds don't get scholarships to become a specific specialty because there's no guarantee you'll match in that specialty. There are location-specific scholarship/loan programs that usually require a primary care specialty, and usually require a number of years of practice in that location after residency. Primary care is FM/IM/Peds, sometimes psych, occasionally gen surg or ObGyn.

In general, if you borrow federal loans to get through med school, you'll be one of a massive horde of fresh docs with $250k+ debt loads. At least 10k out of the 35k new docs per year are crippled by student debt. Nothing's unimaginable now, but generally as long as there are lobbyists protecting industries that depend on fresh docs (AMA, big pharm, hospitals, ins cos etc) it will be hard for the govmint to abandon indebted residents.

Best of luck to you.
 
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Hello,
  1. I currently make decent money (~$70k per year). If I were to attend med school, how would I be able to fund day-to-day expenses?
  2. I've filled out my FAFSA in grad school and I recall it asks for your income for the previous year to determine family contribution. As I said earlier, I make ~$70k, but in med school I would be making $0. Would my previous year's income affect my ability to get federal loan assistance?
  3. I know you have to take out a lot of loans to go to med school, and that after med school you are required to complete an internship and a residency. I also know interning and residency pay very little. Can you get student loans put on deferment/forbearance during internship and residency?
  4. The area of medicine I want to specialize in is anesthesiology. I know that there is a shortage of anesthesiologists in the country. Are there any scholarships/special loans for people who plan on pursuing this specialty?

Answers from a fellow non-trad who was not quite as old (I was 26) when starting med school but similarly had prior jobs, etc.:

1. Savings and loans. Save as much as you can now. If you live in an expensive home, downgrade to something more in the price range of a student. That is, assuming you don't have a spouse with more significant income.

2. (See below post by DrMidlife about how prior income/assets do not reduce grad school loans.)

3. Expect to make somewhere around $48-60k/year as a resident and fellow, depending on your program, city, and year in the program (there is typically a slight increase as you go up the ladder). While in deferment, you don't have to pay back loans AND interest doesn't accrue. While in forbearance, you similarly don't have to pay back loans, but interest keeps on racking up. Unfortunately, it's been several years since the government has allowed medical residents and fellows to go into deferment, so your only option is typically forbearance. The good news is you won't have to pay back federal loans while in post-med school training. The bad news is you probably won't be able to chip away much of your loans with the limited salary, and your interest will keep accumulating. It can add tens of thousands of dollars to your total debt by the time you're done, depending on the length of your training.

4. In short, anesthesiology is not considered a primary care field, so most of these loan forgiveness programs you're describing won't be available to you. That said, there is always the military option (HPSP) if that is something that might interest you. Also, there might be specific locations that have loan forgiveness programs, but that will be dependent on specific municipalities, states, or employers. You'll have to do your research there. Finally, this may change by the time you're practicing, but there are some options to at least minimize your debt burden with the income-based repayment (IRB) payment plans for your loans. You can research that online. Also, keep in mind once you actually get to med school, you may change your mind about your specialty...so that whole discussion may be moot.

Good luck!
 
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I thank you for your time and and thank you in advance. I will also be posting this on the non traditional forum
Please do not post the same thread on multiple forums; cross-posting is against the SDN terms of service. I have combined both of your threads here.
 
2. Yes, your prior income may reduce your potential loan amounts for federal loans (FAFSA), but this drops off after two years I believe. So save up for the first couple years, then you'll probably be able to get more loan money.
This is not correct. Income and assets are not factors in the amounts of federal loans you can get for medical school. If you're a bazillionaire you can still borrow the full cost of attendance in federal loans. There's no 2 year thing. You may be remembering that you hit the Stafford limit after your 2nd year. You may be remembering that you had to submit parental info for institutional aid such as scholarships.

Federal loans for professional school include Staffords, which have subsidies for interest and are capped at $40,500 per year, and Grad Plus, which require clean credit and have a higher interest rate. You can borrow up to whatever your school will approve as cost of attendance, and Grad Plus loans have no limit (as a taxpayer, be scared! as a borrower, just say no!). Eligibility for these loans depends on your citizenship status and other things but not your income or assets.

https://www.aamc.org/advocacy/meded/79232/federal_student_loans.html
https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized#how-much (for borrowing limits see AAMC's page)
 
I was 10 years out of the pre-reqs when I wrote the MCAT and did very well, using only MCAT prep material and no courses. My pre-req grades were not great and I did fine. If you think you can ace the MCAT (and it seems like you should be able to if you put in the work studying effectively), I wouldn't necessarily take classes.
 
perhaps I misworded. Would I qualify for federal student loans (forget I used the terms "assistance" or "aid)?

You'll qualify for federal subsidized and unsubsidized loans, and nothing else if you have any savings or 401K or other investments. They'll expect you to use that up before you rate anything else. They don't care if you're carrying a mortgage or any other expenses. You have to be destitute to get anything else. I'm currently living on 70% Post-9/11 GI benefit (didn't stay in long enough), rent income (yeah it's income) and fed sub and unsub loans, covering the gaps with as-required disbursements from my Rollover IRA. I had to roll my 401K into a Rollover IRA because as it turns out, you can't keep a 401K without ridiculous, massive fees.
 
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Can I piggy-back on this question as it may help OP as well? (if not, /slap me)

Given that I'm already used to working 55+ hours a week, and medical school is supposed to be like that if not 60 hour weeks... is it possible to be a consultant say 10 hours a week if that gig is flexible to allow come/go as needed? And then full time between terms and over summer?

For me, I've been consulting for so long and typically get paid into upper 2/lower 3 figures an hour. I had been thinking if I could maybe work some easier weeks 10 hours a week and between terms full-time+ (45 - 50), then I could pay cash for med school.
 
It may be possible to work very PT during med school, depending on how flexible your curriculum is and on how flexible your job is. However, most people do not work at all during medical school, with the possible exception of the summer between MS1 and MS2, and you should not expect to be able to work at all during any of the times when classes are in session.
 
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