Non-traditional student vent

[angioletto]

Does anyone want to join me in venting about the difficulties of being a "non-traditional student?"

My main issue right now is scheduling classes around my non-negotiable work schedule. My husband and I just bought a house and had a baby so we don't have the freedom to just rent a cheap apartment and live frugally. My job is our main income. It is a 9-5 office job with a fairly decent hourly rate that we can't afford to live without. Our house is very small and inexpensive, but still requires both of our incomes.

Scheduling classes right now is a BITCH! When I was pursuing my 2-year degree all of my classes were offered as night classes. I no longer have that option. It is stressful to see that the majority of classes that I need are only offered several days a week in the middle of the day. No early mornings. No evenings. I have even talked to an advisor who helped me search through other schools programs to see if I could transfer out for certain classes. Yeah, like I want to go to 12 different universities for the next 3 years.

Anyone else going through similar issues?



P.S. I actually get to quit working and live off of student loans during pharmacy school, but for now I am stuck!!

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[tootoo30]

Does anyone want to join me in venting about the difficulties of being a "non-traditional student?"

My main issue right now is scheduling classes around my non-negotiable work schedule. My husband and I just bought a house and had a baby so we don't have the freedom to just rent a cheap apartment and live frugally. My job is our main income. It is a 9-5 office job with a fairly decent hourly rate that we can't afford to live without. Our house is very small and inexpensive, but still requires both of our incomes.

Scheduling classes right now is a BITCH! When I was pursuing my 2-year degree all of my classes were offered as night classes. I no longer have that option. It is stressful to see that the majority of classes that I need are only offered several days a week in the middle of the day. No early mornings. No evenings. I have even talked to an advisor who helped me search through other schools programs to see if I could transfer out for certain classes. Yeah, like I want to go to 12 different universities for the next 3 years.

Anyone else going through similar issues?



P.S. I actually get to quit working and live off of student loans during pharmacy school, but for now I am stuck!!

Yep I'm in the same boat working a 9 to 5 also and trying to finish these prerequisites at the same time. I really wanted to take my General Chemistry I in class but I'm forced to take it online because the other times were not good for me either. I guess I'm fortunate that my school has online classes along with the other classes, but some things are better taught in person!

 

[confettiflyer]

Yeah it's a pain and there's almost no way around it. You can either

a) talk to your employer about working 3 days a week not 5 and possibly working random saturdays. This depends on your employer and flexibility. Many classes are MWF or TuTh only, so I've known students who load up their Tu/Th days and work full time MWF only.

b) in the case of an inflexible employer, you'll have to quit and seek employment elsewhere. This is what I did...I went from making $20-$25/hr as a chemist to $12 as a pharmacy technician. The income hit was BAD, then again...I have a supportive girlfriend, no kids, and no mortgage to worry about. This is not an option if your household relies on 2 incomes for the basics.

c) Private loans for the above case (b). Citi Assist loans will loan you $$ even if you're part time. These carry higher interest rates (8% or so) than traditional loans, but the income hit won't be as pronounced. Another option is a HELOC or a fixed 2nd mortgage. The problem with that is inherent risk of losing your house if you default, and of course the ability to pull money out right now short of full doc is damn near impossible unless you're sitting on a TON of equity with a CLTV of <70%.

Remember....getting into pharmacy school or anything else is an investment in time and money. You can't advance without giving up either or both.

 

[angioletto]

I do have a few (emphasis on "few") online options, but for the more difficult classes I really prefer a classroom setting.

My employer is very flexible. He has told me I can cut down to 32 hours per week without losing benefits, but that would mean a 1/4 reduction in pay. (I'd only be working 3/4 of my normal hours.) But I am an EHS technician. I spend the majority of my time onsite visitng clients. That makes working half days very difficult because I usually have to pu in an 8-hour day when visiting a client.

As far as finding new employment, the only way it would work is if I could find a job with fewer hours making a higher hourly wage. Right now I make $14.85/hour (scheduled for a 10% raise in February). Plus my benefits are amazing.

More loans.... that scares me the most. I have already added up what I'll have to borrow to get through pharmacy school and it is a LOT! (Assuming tuition doesn't go up a ton between now and 3-4 years form now when I hope to be a student.)

So, yeah, I have considered every option. The number one factor to consider is my son. I am sure there are other options out there (working a 3rd shift job, going back to waiting tables and bartending on weekends) but would I ever see my son? It is already pretty darn heartbreaking to leave him for 8 hours per day during the week and 4 hours on Saturdays when I have my Algebra class.

Like I said, I am totally venting here. I really don't expect anyone to come out of the woodwork and "solve" this problem. My university also only offer Statistics as a MTWThF class at either 11 am or 2 pm. How can ANY working person fit that into a first shift schedule? Even with the most flexible boss in the world I know that won't work.

We'll get through. Even if it takes me an extra 2-3 years to finish the pre-reqs.

 

[eelo]

I do have a few (emphasis on "few") online options, but for the more difficult classes I really prefer a classroom setting.

My employer is very flexible. He has told me I can cut down to 32 hours per week without losing benefits, but that would mean a 1/4 reduction in pay. (I'd only be working 3/4 of my normal hours.) But I am an EHS technician. I spend the majority of my time onsite visitng clients. That makes working half days very difficult because I usually have to pu in an 8-hour day when visiting a client.

As far as finding new employment, the only way it would work is if I could find a job with fewer hours making a higher hourly wage. Right now I make $14.85/hour (scheduled for a 10% raise in February). Plus my benefits are amazing.

More loans.... that scares me the most. I have already added up what I'll have to borrow to get through pharmacy school and it is a LOT! (Assuming tuition doesn't go up a ton between now and 3-4 years form now when I hope to be a student.)

So, yeah, I have considered every option. The number one factor to consider is my son. I am sure there are other options out there (working a 3rd shift job, going back to waiting tables and bartending on weekends) but would I ever see my son? It is already pretty darn heartbreaking to leave him for 8 hours per day during the week and 4 hours on Saturdays when I have my Algebra class.

Like I said, I am totally venting here. I really don't expect anyone to come out of the woodwork and "solve" this problem. My university also only offer Statistics as a MTWThF class at either 11 am or 2 pm. How can ANY working person fit that into a first shift schedule? Even with the most flexible boss in the world I know that won't work.

We'll get through. Even if it takes me an extra 2-3 years to finish the pre-reqs.

And then what are you going to do if you actually get into pharmacy school? You won't be able to work full time, and you'll have the added expense of daycare for you toddler.

I don't think you've considered every option. It sounds more like you're spending a lot of time eliminating possibilities because they're inconvenient. Grad/professional school is inconvenient, to say the least. Choosing to start a family at that time makes it even more so. You're going to have to set some personal and professional goals and priorities.

 

[Farmercyst]

It's definitely difficult. I had to get extremely creative when finishing my prereqs and getting my BS. I started taking prereqs in Fall 2000 and just got accepted this year. Got married in 2003, 1st kid in 2004, and 2nd kid last year. I worked 2-10, 3-11, and 4-12 shifts so I could take day classes. When that didn't work I used paternity laws to work half days or worked saturdays, shifted my day off, and worked splits to get all my classes in. It still took 7 years to get a BS and an acceptance letter. Fortunately pay was a little less of a problem. Since I made $20-27/hr over that span, my wife was able to stay home while I was doing all this and so we didn't have to pay for childcare. We sold our condo so I had more options in where I wanted to apply, it has also made living on loans less of a burden because we can augment with our savings. Just stick with it and it should work out in the end.

 

[angioletto]

And then what are you going to do if you actually get into pharmacy school? You won't be able to work full time, and you'll have the added expense of daycare for you toddler.

From my original post.

P.S. I actually get to quit working and live off of student loans during pharmacy school, but for now I am stuck!!

Childcare will not be an "added expense" as we are already paying it now.

I don't think you've considered every option. It sounds more like you're spending a lot of time eliminating possibilities because they're inconvenient. Grad/professional school is inconvenient, to say the least. Choosing to start a family at that time makes it even more so. You're going to have to set some personal and professional goals and priorities.

Thanks for your opinion, although I don't really think it is necessary for you to be so condescending. Yes, I have considered every option. I have put a lot of time and energy in trying to work out a schedule that allows me to continue working full time. I haven't eliminated anything because it is "inconvenient." Do you consider working 8 hours/day M-F, taking a night class 3 nights a week, taking a Saturday class and only being able to study after my baby goes to bed convenient? The most convenient thing to do would be to quit school and stick with my current job, ignoring the fact that I hate it and don't want to do that for the rest of my life. None of my choices are made out of convenience. They are made with consideration towards my financial and family obligations and my desire to become a pharmacist.

I am facing a lot of road blocks right now, and I am well aware that I placed most of those road blocks myself. Like I said a couple times now I am just venting in here.

 

[wbrown]

Are there any community colleges around you? The ones around here usually offer night courses and a few Saturday courses.

 

[SexyPlexi]

I am exactly in your situation. We ended up (just last weekend) moving into an apartment with another couple *gulp* but so far it looks like it will be a good thing. I carry our benefits and have health issues that I HAVE to have health insurance. (Well everyone really should anyway, but I can't just go get covered anywhere)

I'm having that trouble with biology! They are ALL during the day. Thankfully there is ONE offered at 8:00am, but the lab goes until 12:15. I just had to talk to my boss and I applied to reduce my hours from 40 to 30 so I could work out the schedule for next semester. I also called the advisor at our school because I work in an office too. She said in biology you have to go outside sometimes so they don't offer it in the evening.

I guess that is not much help...I just had to find a way to make it work. There HAS to be a way...SOME way.

You want this! You can do this!! This is the place to vent IMO. I know I sometimes feel uncomfortable to vent here but this it not easy and we're all working our butts off for a common goal so let's help each other out and be encouraging.

Just figure it out for the next semester and take it one semester at a time.

 

[eelo]

I think this is a good place to insert this.

Many, many people are figuring out ways to "make it work" without the advantages or futures that the lucky ones on this board have. You may not feel lucky right now, and believe me, I know it's hard to shuffle school, work, and family. Still, if you keep your eye on the prize- that in 4, 5, or 6 years you'll be working in a terrific field, with fairly regular hours, and making (comparably) boatloads of money- it may be easier to make the sacrifices now.... or at least to put those sacrifices in perspective.

Many people make the same sacrifices day in and day out, for years, without the same expectation of a better life five years down the road. They're facing this grind for the next ten or twenty years, with no pie-in-the-sky $100K job waiting for them. They've been doing it for years, they do it now, and they'll do it for years to come, with the biggest 'prize' being a job that might, at some point, pay enough to cover their health insurance, or allow them to move from a horrible situation to a decent one. They may or may not have long-term plans for a retirement income.

This isn't designed to put anyone down- just to give you a little different perspective on your own situations. Yeah, it's really, really hard right now, but at least it's reasonable for you to expect that it won't always be that way. That makes you one of the lucky ones. ;-)

Good luck to all of you. The struggle is worth the prize.

***Dangit- I should have said "The prize is worth the struggle." And I tried so hard to be eloquent!!!!

 

[Corona]

I'm holding down two jobs, online classes and kids. Good luck to all of you, keep working at it.

 

[futurerxguy]

To say the least, the entire situation is difficult.... no matter how you look at it. As for me, I had to give up my full-time time as a math teacher (now I work part-time as a math teacher, which allows for flexibility), and I work a second job as a tutor in the evening a few days per week and weekends with taking a couple of classes. That being said, I have taken about a $600/month pay cut from what I was making earlier this year. If you want it, you will find a way to do it. Sacrificing money/time (or both) will happen, no doubt about it. I did get into pharmacy school for Fall 2008, thank goodness.... so it all makes it worth it, but just know you will have to sacrifice in some manner short-term for the possibility of long-term success. Best of luck in your endeavor!

Sincerely,
Shawn (futurerxguy)

 

[ScienceNerd]

If you want something really bad-you'll do anything in your power to get it.

I was making decent money and had a comfortable lifestyle (I graduated w/ the BS and started working when I was 21)...but I hated the job; last year I decided I wanted to go back to school, finish up a second degree and finish pre-requisites for pharmacy schools I wanted to go into. (which was kind of a blow, I had just paid off previous student loans from my undergrad-I'm 23 years old) Alot of planning, and saving-but not at all easy. Gave up "luxuries" (ie, shopping, magazines, cable television) but I managed to saved up enough money for tuition for one year and living expenses for 6 months. That being said, I still had to take out a student loan for the other 6 months and books.

It's ok to feel pressured and frustrated-it's part of life. However, don't focus on the negative; it's easy to do that when it seems that there's nothing but road blocks (lol my parents said no help from them when I told them my plan). Theres just some times (ok, a lot of times) when things are going to be inconvenient and frustrating. Just think of your ultimate goal-and if nothing else, imagine what this job can do for your kids. A job with better hours, better salary will allow you to have more time for them and give them the things they deserve. Parents do a lot for their children (I'm a first generation immigrant family, and I know first hand how much trouble and effort my parents went through to ensure I had a comfortable life) and they will recognize that and appreciate it; I still have conversations with my mom that go "remember when all we had in the fridge was milk and cheese"?

Hold your head up high and keep your eye on the prize!

 

[Farmercyst]

One other thing I almost had to do, but fortunately things worked out so I didn't, is split lecture and labs over different instructors. It's not always available, but at my CC there was a M/W lecture, but I couldn't get into either of the PM labs because of another class that conflicted. They were going to let me take the M/W lecture, but go to a different instructor's lab which was on Saturday. The school was really flexible on that point. It's really something that can only be done with lower division, high occupancy courses (Bio, GChem, A/P) After that classes thin out and options become more scarce, but I guess I don't really have to tell you that.

 

[Lori3]

One of my prereqs was only offered as a daytime class, and for the moment I'm limited to evening classes. I mentioned this to my advisor, she pulled a few strings and. . . lo and behold, by the end of the week an evening section of that class was offered!

Soooo. . . you may want to put a bug in a few ears about how great it would be to offer certain courses in the evening. . .

 

[medblue]

yes i'm joining this bandwagon. being a new mom is a beyotchhhhhhhhhhhh when trying to do pharmacy apps, study organic chemistry, clean the house, raise older children, tutor, homework, schedule play dates, financial consultant, lover, friend, wife, chef....................... never ending list

 

[1908PharmD]

there are some colleges out there that offer online science courses with the labs. and they are accredited and dont have to go to class. there are also some classes that are self paced. meaning you can take the class whenever you want to and finish whenever you want to.

one of the schools that offer this service is Southern Polytechnic University in Atlanta, GA. another one is a school in canada, i forgot its named, i have the application at home. Another one is UnC chapel hill.

im taking physics 1 again this summer from one of them. i already had physics 1 (C) &2 (A) I just want to retake 1 to get atleast a B or A.

one thing about the online lab is that you have to buy your own chemicals for certain classes, other classes they have simulation labs where you just do everything on the computer.

 

[angioletto]

I am scheduled to take my Chem 1 class this spring and the lab this summer. That definitely helps.

I have made quite a few calls to various people at the university and mentioned that I am struggling with scheduling several classes that are only offered during the day. They seemed helpful, but they were all pretty sure that there would be no way to add on another section or to move a section. That was when they suggested that I try another university for those classes.

After several conversations and yes, arguments, about this my husband and I have finally found a plan that should work for us. We know we can't stop working altogether but we decided to go ahead and get enough money in student loans so that we can at least cut our hours at work during the fall and spring. We really don't want to sell our house. Even if we did the savings would be minimal.

It is really going to be a semester by semester issue. We have to be very careful that our school and work schedules match up so that our son isn't with a sitter 12 hours a day. Hopefully with some of the financial stress removed we can put more concentration into our studying!

 

[eelo]

I am scheduled to take my Chem 1 class this spring and the lab this summer. That definitely helps.

I have made quite a few calls to various people at the university and mentioned that I am struggling with scheduling several classes that are only offered during the day. They seemed helpful, but they were all pretty sure that there would be no way to add on another section or to move a section. That was when they suggested that I try another university for those classes.

Nice to see how flexible they are willing to be to help you <gag>.

Is there any possibility of taking any of the courses by independent study?

 

[angioletto]

I don't think that is an option. I have done independent study before, but it was an "honors" option where I got to choose my own topic. (I did it in microbiology. I took water samples from a local lake and tested them for coliforms to see if there were higher levels on the beach side of the lake or the side that is bordered by an agricultural farm. Super fun!)

Before I switched to pre-pharmacy I spent 1 year as a civil engineering major. The first day of class the head of that program came in to lecture the class about co-ops and scheduling their classes. Her lecture was VERY clearly aimed at first-year feshman who live on campus and have no responsibilities other than school. It made me feel very out of place. I am truly disappointed that I am at times treated like a "2nd class" student!

What can you do about it though? I know for me I will just schedule classes when I can, bitch to my husband when I hit a major scheduling dilemma and occasionally ask the school why they don't offer certain classes at night.